BlackDragon

Fun fact: You don't actually NEED Dispel Barrier beyond Level 1 in order to complete the game. There's often some really good stuff hiding behind Level 2 or 3 barriers, but never anything vital to your progress. In other cases, there's always another way past - by breaking down walls with Move Mountain, or picking locked doors with Tool Use. This is to ensure that it remains possible to finish the game should you opt to join the Anama, cutting you off from all Mage-Spells and leaving you with only Piercing Crystals (which casts the equivalent of the Level 1 spell) for your barrier-breaking needs...

...none of which changes the problem that you can't get to it without paying a steep price - an unpayable one, even, if you should have happened to piss off the Anama. >_> Bah... Back in Avernum 3 and, I believe, Exile 3 as well, there was an alternative - a spellbook in Erox, way up in the northwest corner of Valorim. That, too, had a price attached, but a far more agreeable one. I suppose that's not there anymore, or maybe it's just being used for something different...

An amusing notion... but alas, your assumption is in error. If you drop the Xian Rock on the floor, or even move it into your Junk-inventory, it stops producing bricks. Presumably, it draws some kind of energy from its carrier to do what it does... Well, you can kinda' tell from the fact that the house where you find it isn't full of bricks.

Huh... I did not know that! Well, all the more reason why we shouldn't have to be saddled with one just to pick up the third tier of a mid-range spell... >_>

Well, to be fair, as long as you don't piss off the Anama, getting rid of a Dread Curse is pretty easy. Ahonar doesn't even CHARGE for it. But yeah, it seems a bit steep - Summon Aid isn't even a top-tier spell, or anything. I know there were two places to get it back in the original Avernum 3, but... the magic- and tome-system has changed a LOT since then, so that doesn't mean much. >_>

So, I got to the Tower of Zkal, and found the tome of Summon Aid within. Problem is, you apparently have to read that book three times in order to pick up the spell, and the second time you read it, you get a Dread Curse for your troubles. Of course, you can get rid of a Dread Curse by talking to Ahonar in Shayder... but, oh wait, I robbed the Anama Vault ages ago. The whole city, nevermind Ahonar, are hostile to me. Well... ****. Is there ANY way out of this? Any way to read the book without picking up a Dread Curse? Any other way to get Tier 3 of Summon Aid? Any other way to get rid of a Dread Curse? Any way to de-hostile Shayder? Or do I actually have to choose between going through the entire rest of the game with a Dread Curse, or never getting all of the spells maxed out?

Minor thing I noticed... the Concealed Tunnel (where you sort out the Giant/Troglo plagues) seems to have accidentally been designated as an outdoors area, meaning it occasionally rains there.

Eh, in giant caves, it's kinda' believable. In a set of narrow tunnels kept constantly heated by humming, magical devices, not so much. Oh hey, just noticed the 'minor bugs' thread... guess I'll throw it in there!

Just thought I'd mention this amusing little glitch... the 'Concealed Tunnel' dungeon, despite being... well, a TUNNEL, seems to have been accidentally set as an outdoors-location. Meaning that depending on your luck, it might be raining in there.

Wait, so... same place where the Xian Chainmail USED to be? >_> Or is there TWO Xian items there, now?

Ahh... I was having this problem too, with Foxfire specifically. I guess they just travel way, WAY slower than you do.

Sure, but you can get THAT advantage by fake-joining the Anama and then robbing their Vault too... 's probably cheaper, and certainly more profitable!

...well, damn. Add that to MY list of 'stuff I was supposed to do after getting the Fake Anama Rings but BEFORE getting rid of them and robbing their Vault, but forgot about'.

How QUICKLY do these people travel? I head direct from one place to the other and back, and keep coming up blank... well, obviously, I managed to find the chap in the end, but now I'm having the same problem with Foxfire. I assumed they'd stay in each location for a day, at least. >_> Well, that's nice and enigmatic. Don't suppose you'd care to share where THAT one is hiding, then? I know that Xian items CAN be permanently missed, since I apparently lost the Xian Ale (assuming it's still there, and in the same place as it used to be) by failing to notice it in the grove, and then leaving. You can never return...

I cleared the Mundt-quest while I had the rings, having remembered that sealed-off temple in Sharimik - but I was, indeed, referring to the 'Anama Compound' one. If you approach it without the rings, they just give you a cold shoulder and completely ignore you - you never even find out that they're producing Wands for members only. See, I already knew about that, and their exorbitant prices, and I already have enough wands to outfit a full deck of Tarot-cards, so it held no interest for me. But, what... you can still turn in that quest just from having visited the compound, even though they won't say two words to you if you aren't Anama? >_> Convenient!

Well, for anyone curious, the money and valuables you can find in the Anama Vault can cover the price of the fake Anama Rings... but not much more than that. You can get cheap training, herbs and potions while you have the rings, and then use the heist to recover those losses, but you're not gonna come away with any great profit. Hardly worth the hassle, really. Also, AFTER doing all that, AND overwriting my save, I discovered that the Anama Rings (or actual membership) is needed for a mission near Lorelei. Which I'll now never, ever be able to complete. Bah. It's almost like some kind of, I dunno, 'divine punishment' or something...

Ah, handy guide, thanks... still had some trouble finding the starting-hook for the Wand of Endless Magery I suppose, though. According to the guide, the information should come from a wizard who's either in one of the small rooms along the eastern walls of Kriszan, or in the Inn of Delan - but I searched in both places, and found nothing. Eventually, after spending some time running around on other errands, he DID appear in Kriszan - so I suspect he actually has a wider circuit than just those two cities. Anyway, does anyone know if all of the Xian artifacts are still in the present game? I seem to have missed several despite already visiting the places where they're supposed to be...

These things are pretty obscure and hard to track down... gotta randomly talk to the right person in the right city and ask the right questions to even get started, and sometimes the right person wanders from city to city so you can wind up missing them entirely. I keep coming across the places where I know the Artifact-dungeons are, but I can't find them because I don't have the all-important information. The Xian Skull gives hints, but they are obscure and only appear randomly. I'm getting paranoid about missing stuff. There's a 'lead' on an artifact in every province, right? At least, that's how I remember it from Exile 3... but I've definitely missed some of them. So, does anyone at least have a list of the 'starting-point' for every Artifact quest-line? Like, who do you talk to or where do you look in order to get the first hint of the Artifact? I've got leads from the Isle of Bigail (the Bow) and one from Karnold (the Halberd), but I seem to have missed whatever you can find in Krizsan, and while I've got some leads in the Midori Province, I've yet to actually manage to track down Foxfire the Bard. No idea where to even start on Footracer, either - but I seem to recall that the hint in Monroe comes from a book in the famous Gale Library.

Okay, so... if Randomizer is correct, Shayder stays permanently hostile, making it impossible to talk to Ahonar. But apparently, you can also remove them by praying at the altar, which you COULD do by rushing past him, or killing him. But you get a Dread Curse if you do that. However, if memory serves, Ahonar isn't the ONLY person who can deal with one of those - can't the priest at the Tower of Magic handle it too? If so, there IS apparently a way to get rid of the rings after pulling the heist... albeit one that involves either killing the charismatic head of the Anama, or tanking a lot of attacks from a very powerful, very high-level cleric... EDIT: Nevermind, I checked. Mother Clarisse in the Tower of Magic claims that she COULD break the curse, but she doesn't feel like doing so because of reasons, so she tells you to go see Ahonar. So... unless I'm still missing some detail, it seems that the conclusion is that robbing the Anama Vault leaves you either permanently stuck with the Anama Rings, or permanently stuck with a Dread Curse... EDIT TO THE EDIT: Waaaaait a minute... I've GOT it! It IS doable! You just have to go about it in a rather counter-intuitive way. Once you access the second floor of the Anama Temple, those barriers don't reappear until you leave the map, if then. So you open up the second floor, then you go to Ahonar and get him to destroy the rings, THEN you head back to the second floor and rob the vault. Not the most realistic way to pull off a heist, but at least it explains why everybody in the city immediately know that YOU did it.

So, I'm plotting a heist at the Anama Temple in Shayder, using my brand-new, 2500-gold fake Anama Rings. Hey, gotta recoup my investment SOMEHOW, right? Problem is, I know it'll make the whole city turn hostile on me. And I also know that the only way to get RID of these rings is to talk to Ahonar, the Anama bigwig who happens to be IN the city. I don't wanna be saddled with these things, getting the cold shoulder from every mage who spots them, for the rest of the game... Does Shayder stop being hostile after a while? If so, 'bout how long does it take? Or is there some other way to get rid of the rings after you piss everyone in Shayder right off?

I'm not 100% sure, but I THINK I remember reaching that bit from another angle. Like, there's a secret passage somewhere else - upper left corner, maybe? - which leads you to a small treasure-chamber ad a passage that terminates there... or maybe I'm getting it confused with some other, similar place. Obviously, even if Firewalking WAS in this game, it still wouldn't be possible to reach that place, what with the pillar being in the way and there being no known way to destroy pillars outside of scripted events. Well, surely someone could just mod in a 'noclip mode' and go check, though... right?

...I think I just flashed back to Algebra-class for a bit there. >_> I feel confused and worried about my homework.

Oddly, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here who didn't find Avadon as engaging as Exile/Avernum... I was afraid I just didn't 'get it' or something. On the other hand, hearing such rousing words about Nethergate makes me want to take another spin through it. Otherwise, I guess I should give Geneforge a chance to impress me, then. I DO enjoy a good Sci-Fi RPG, which is a surprisingly rare breed... but on the other hand, I've heard some rumors about the later Geneforge-games being quite dark, bleak and depressing, and I generally have an aversion against overly 'grimdark' games. I think the key in games like Exile/Avernum is that, yeah, things be effed-up at the start, but you - the player - have a chance to make them better. Makes it feel like a real accomplishment, y'know? Some games are so eager to seem 'dark' that they basically cut out the player's ability to create anything resembling a 'happy ending', 'cuz that would mess with the atmosphere... and making the whole thing seem pointless as a side-effect. Why bother when you won't make anything better anyway? Of course, I don't know if Geneforge tends that far in that direction... You mean Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magics Obscura? Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Good times. Never finished it, though - got annoyed by a few bugs and deeply horrified by a certain side-quest that lacked anything resembling a good ending. See above. Damn gnomes...

Hmm... not particularly. That seems to be about finding Spiderweb-esque games OUTSIDE of Spiderweb's games. And I've already played most of them. I'm debating which Spiderweb-games to try based on enjoying Exile and Avernum specifically.

A bit of quick background: I played the original Exile-trilogy extensively as a kid, and have had a lot of fun re-playing EftP and CS over the past few weeks. Unfortunately, I suspect it'll be at least a year or two before we see Avernum 3: Ruined World, and I'm contemplating giving the rest of Jeff's output a chance in the meantime. I bought Avadon when it first came out, and I think I have Nethergate: Resurrection kicking around somewhere, too. Neither really stuck with me, but what with the new Avadon 2: Corruption being out, I'm thinking about giving it another chance. I've also heard a bunch of interesting things about the Geneforge-series, which I've never even touched. Considering that I loved Exile and love the new Avernum-remakes, which route should I take? Avadon, or Geneforge? I suppose I should mention WHAT I like about Exile/Avernum, though. One thing I like is the almost Metroidvania-esque way the world gradually unlocks - get clearances, learn Move Mountain and get higher levels of Dispel Barrier, obtain the Orb of Thralnir, find the Blessed Athame... and, in the original series, there was stuff like Firewalking, too. As you do stuff, more areas, quests and elements become accessible, and you can go back to that cave you noticed on the other side of a chasm and finally explore it now that you can fly, etc. I also like the huge number of available quests - for most of the game, there's a genuinely open world around you, and no matter which direction you turn in, there'll be someone ready to pay you for beating someone (or someTHING) up. The reputation-system is a nice touch too, making it so most people actually respond to you in a way suitable to the number of world-saving quests you've accomplished. It always annoys me how, in many RPG's, you can save the world ten times over and nobody seems to notice. One thing I DIDN'T much care for in the new remakes (as opposed to the original Exile-games) is the narrow scope of weapons and powers. Small number of spells, with many classics missing (Where's my fireball/firestorm?!?), small number of weapon-types that basically just boils down to the choice between '1-handed sword' and '2-handed polearm'. No greatswords, no axes, no blunt weapons like maces or hammers, no special ammunition for bows... heck, even the 'Lightning Rod' javelins are gone. I generally prefer having a bit more freedom to customize my characters. Eager to hear your recommendations based on that.