Incantator

Ha, good information to know. Thanks!

I was rather concerned about losing possible dialogues. Some NPCs just seem to be killed completely when I drag too much, right? Hm, I'm gonna choose a party capable of casting every spells this time to see if the different damage formula brought some change into the spells.

So I've finished AV2 a while ago; it was a bit disappointing to me since it was way too similar to AV1. I would have even believed if somebody said it is a mod of AV1. Not to mention the first 1/3 was downright linear; understand the intention but man, I felt playing JRPG or something. I gave AV3 a shot and now it seems to bring some new changes, however slight they might be! I recovered my taste for the series and thinking of playing AV3 now. 1. Anything I should know before playing AV3? I do have read the header post about some towns being devastaed as time passes by, and I'm thinking of using the editor to reset the day from time to time if needed. 2. Any major differences of AV3 from its predecessors? For example, I heard that damage calculation formula changed from AV1 & AV2. So are there any skills that became much weaker or stronger? Any other information or recommendation is welcomed. Thanks in advance

I heard some people complaining that in AV2 remake, empire archers keep running away casting immobilization(bind?) which makes the game so annoying. Actually, I also found that archers were a bit more annoying in AV1 remake since in the original AV1 once you get close to them they take damage when they try to get out of the close range. Same logic applies to you as well, so you couldn't just keep casting spells and run away when enemies have a lot of APs and got close to you. But yeah, it was a bit harsh though and brought more tension to each battle since you cannot just simply back off when one of your character is in low HP. You mean there is no tight corridor in AV1 remake, right?

I just gave it a try with the recent remake as a demo version today, and I'd say it looks great at least on a first glance! Especially compared to AV1, it indeed looks amazing, I like it. I cannot comment much now since I didn't play it much, but combining all the comments above though, some changes seem questionable (no items/spells on outdoors...) and optimization seems to have become rather linear unfortunately but if one regard it as a different game (or as a 'modded' one) I think the game brings enough fun to old AV1 gamers. Things I additionally noticed in the remake (but not 100% sure though; give me a feedback if I'm wrong!): - I cannot move barrels anymore; my characters just go around of it. Less interaction now. - Animation is good enough, but I miss the speedy battle with ching-chang sword sounds. - When an enemy next to me is trying to move out of the close range, it got a counterattack in AV1. It does not in the remake. - In a battle, clicking an enemy will make the character to go close to it and hit it. Same with magic. Very useful. - Whenever I'm close to an enemy, I'm forced to be in a battle mode. Can be useful, but now it seems impossible to retain the normal travelling mode and attack the enemy with the front character.

Sorry, I know this is an old topic but I decided it is better to add comments on this topic. First of all, some say AV1 wall bumping had some problem but I'd say no, it didn't have a single problem in AV1, and it blended into AV1 perfectly well. It does seem to cause problems in later Avernum series; I'm playing AV2 and I get Far Sight too late, and there are places that can be not revisted so in the early game I had to bump into walls consistently, which was really not fun, I agree. However, in AV1 you get Far Sight fairly quickly and IIRC you can even start with Far Sight. No, actually I didn't even have to mention this since in my first playthrough I got Far Sight quite late, and when I got it I was SSOOOOOO enthrilled about places that I might have possibly not discovered yet and returning back to places all over the world to find hidden things was such a memorable adventure. Not to mention most of the hidden walls had some clues on it and I found some of them accidentally what an adventurous feeling it was... I still cannot forget it. Secondly, indeed the increasing marginal cost of stats let players to diversify EACH character, which is rarely seen in most games. Usually the end optimization in many games tend to be something like 2 warriors, 1 magician, 1 priest yadayada.. but no, in AV1 the increasing MC is so high that you'd better make each character capable of casting some magic/priest spells and fighting at the same time, and the intensity of diversification itself brings a huge possible combinations. Actually, my end optimization is currently with 4 characters each of whom is capable of casting LV 18 priest spells and LV 6 mage spells. Third, apart from the usefulness of using spells and items outdoors (not even discussing the impact of Safe Travel and Far Sight brought to the original game), disabling them is IMO just not a good idea. It just limits possible actions one can take. Buying a lizard meat from an outside vendor and eating it - however it might sound not 'optimal' game-wisely - is one's freedom and it itself brings numerous additional ways to enjoy the game and in some cases even strategic implications. See, some good aspects of a game need not to be directly related to the winning of the game; interaction with other objects - however it might seem pointless and even silly - is one of the prime factors contributing to fun of the game (say, as in Deus Ex). Moreover, in AV1 sometimes more than 2 groups of enemies followed you so in case you didn't heal your party fully in the previous battle casting spells or drinking a potion outside were actually useful to me.

That is REALLY ugly... I think I have to use the editor to reset the boats to read that book later.

I think I've made it to the bottom of the waterfall. Now I'm wondering if there's any way to go back to this tunnel area. I've found out that I lost the opportunity to read the book which increases the mage skill level... Argggghghhh!!! I hate those rapids. Unlike the first game, I cannot obtain Far Sight however I might increase the mage skill level when creating characters. If only I had Far Sight...

Argh... that's ugly...

Hm... so that means I have to kill them whenever they become hostile to me. Too sad It's like butchering them due to misunderstanding with each other. Hope that there's a shop nearby since I'm overloaded with goodies.

OK, I'm in the Ruined River Fort now (Chapter 2). I've met hostile Vahnatais there, but wondering if there is any way to make them friendly. Maybe if I visit here after I've met the leader then they'll become friendly to me? Or do they just become hostile to me for the entire game?

I was talking about the number of targets for each spell, so the equation I'd been mentioning was 1+B/12. As I've noticed, Divine Fire was able to target 8 enemies so 1+B/12=8 came out, resulting B/12=7 (rounded down). Sorry for the confusion: I should have clarified the original equation first. I also think the damage formula seems to work as indicated. And most of all, thanks for your testing it That makes sense now.

Thanks. Indeed, according to the Harehunter's Annotated Map, it seems that Nephil gains initiative for some each level interval. Pretty neat, I guess.

Ah, you're right. I forgot (1) magery (2) natural mage and (3) magery/priest bracelet. But still, the gap seems to be too huge. The range of B I listed above is for the number of targets each spell can be casted to. For example, for LV3 Divine Fire 1 + B/12 = 8 (rounded down), so B/12 = 7, B=84~95. Now my priest has the priest bracelet with 10 magery (5+2+3: 2 from the Crypt of Drath and 3 from the crystal), but still it's not enough to cover the minimum 84 even considering the natural mage bonus(priest: LV33, mage: LV34). I think at least Fireblast seems to be correct(or at least near correct) considering 7 magery+2 magery bracelet+natural mage bonus, though. I'll also check the help file from the demo. Thanks

Thanks for the useful information! I also tested the War Charm in Avernum 1 roughly against Knoth, and my result is the same: it does nothing. If somebody wants to test it rigorously, I have my save file so just tell me. By the way, is there a manual for Avernum 1? I've been playing with the GOG version, and it only has manuals starting from Avernum 3(I don't know why...). I even installed the Demo version just to get the manual but to no avail. For the Divine Fire, my priest had 18 priest skill levels with 2 intelligence, so B=18+(2/2)=19 I guess. But it can cast it to as many as 8 enemies now. The mage had 13 mage skill levels with 2 intelligence, so B=13+(2/2)=14 but was able to cast Fireblast to as many as the same 8 enemies. Maybe I haven't understood the formula for B correctly, but still the gap seems to be quite huge: for the priest, B should be 84~95 and for the mage, B should be 25~29. Lastly, the manual of Avernum 3 asserts that B=priest/mage skill levels+intelligence. So was the formula for B priest/mage skill levels+(intelligence/2) only in Avernum 1 and 2? I seem to have a lot of questions

Thanks for your explanation! Then how about going for a party without a single human character? Would it cause any loss of a dialogue option? Since this is my first playing it, I wish I could explore every possibility of the game. If these is such a loss, then I would choose a party containing every different race. [Edited] Sorry for keep adding new questions, but just they're just keep coming: according to Harehunter's annotated map, Defense seems to work quite similar to Hardiness in Avernum 1. It says 'Allows you to wear bulkier armor without penalty' and Without it, mages cannot wear any defensive armor at all. With a few points in defense, they can wear armor with a -15% to hit penalty without losing the ability to cast mage spells'. So it seems more useful than Hardiness since it negates the AP penalty of bulky armors and on top of that it enables mages to wear armors. Am I right? [Edited] Nevermind. It seems like Hardiness reduces the hit-to-chance penalty while Defense reduces the AP penalty somehow.

So I'm starting to play Avernum 2 as well. Several questions in mind: 1. Does the race of my party members can change the storyline or anything? I'm curious. 2. How 'nimble' the Nephil becomes? Is it a bonus to the whole dexterity or just boosting the chance of dodging or something? Also, it would be great if someone tells me there is any other major differences from Avernum 1 to 2. Thanks.

Phew, thanks to everyone. I made a different party this time and it was very satisfactory to me. First three start with 6 priest skill levels, one start with 8 mage skill levels. The first three end up with 18 priest skill levels, the last ends up with 13 mage/10 or 12 priest skill levels. All starting with toughness/natural mage. 8 hardiness, around 6~8 luck, putting around 8 points into melee weapons etc. This party is so versatile and tough that it never died except those early dealy traps. The game was even felt so easy with this party. Finished the surface mission at around 30 at the hardest difficulty and now resting a bit. Many thanks to those who answered my questions and to the author of annotated map(Silver), damage stat/magic equipment research(Thoukydides). Without those, it would have been no better than the first play in the normal difficulty. Here are some of my experience: 1. Thoukydides says he hasn't seen War Charm and Warmth Charm but I've bought both of them. IIRC War Charm from the hermit near the Tower of Magi and Warmth Charm from Dexter in Almaria. 2. There's a post about complaining that the invisible gaurdians near Sulfras cannot be attacked(http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/19018-av-1-sulfras-untouchable-guards/page__hl__sulfras). And so did I. They just block the way and cannot be even attacked. Very annoying. Though I taught some lessons to Sulfras due to its arrogance, ha! 3. Surprised that I forgot so many humorous parts in the game. I laughed hard after I had talked with the small lizard in Spire. Since everyone says Avernum 2 is also really great, maybe I have to try it as well now. Had so much fun.

You're right, indeed. Now I think the party problem is all solved A few questions about the shops: is there any information which shops give you which price for your selling? The buying price is listed in the game, but the selling price seems to vary not depending on the information (slightly expensive, etc). Also, do the stocks refill? IIRC they do refill but may be refilled at the start of the month or exactly after a month but I'm not sure.

Thanks for the answer! Then what do you think about giving 3 mage spells or 1 priest spell for warriors? I was thinking putting 3 mage spells is a bit of waste but perhaps 1 priest spell would be useful. And according to silver's annotated map, putting some mage skills and spells to warriors help mung demons to cast dumbfounding to warriors instead, so I was wondering if 1 point in priest spell and maxing out the basic 4 priest spells is enough to do the trick. [Edited] Misunderstood the answer first, so edited it.

Thanks everyone: I decided to add one mage in my party. I'm going to have two casters in my party: one with max priest spells and 3 mage speels (for haste), and one with max mage spells and 6 priest spells (mass healing, unshackle mind). How do you think about this mix? Maybe 6 priest spells for the mage is just a waste, I'm not sure.

Thanks . Some buttons still reveal a part of the crude codes like <div class> or something but it shows what I wanted to see!

OK. I think more questions will arise as I play this one more time, so I decided to ask questions on this thread rather than keep making another one. Unfortunately, I think I cannot modify the title, though. I'm actually thinking of throwing away the mage class in my party later on by replacing the position with other NPCs. Because (1) IIRC later in this game my impression was that magic becomes less and less useful than swords. (2) I'm not sure about this, but divine fire and fire blast seem to deal similar amount of fire damage. Maybe fire blast will do more damage, but maybe I can ignore the difference. Lightning spray is incredibly useful early on, so that's exactly why I'm still going to use mage in the early games. (3) I think other than arcane blow, priest has better spells overall in later games according to the description of the game. He can still use divine fire which is I think almost the same as fire blast (I'm not sure though...) for area effect, and he has a lot of crucial buff spells. (4) IIRC I can buy dispel barrier scrolls or something so it wouldn't be a problem, I guess. How do you think about this? I'm going to make every warriors to be able to spell haste by themselves later, so it wouldn't be a problem, either. Just want to hear some advice [Edit] Hm, while the first blast requires 13 mage skills, divine fire only requires 10 priest skills, so maybe first blast is much stronger. Maybe I should have Sabrina put some points into mage to use area-effective skills.

Thanks a lot. This is really useful

Hm, but even considering that I remember that I always got 95% chance to hit anyone. Maybe this time I should try to find the minimum possible stats required to achieve the 95% hit rate.