Hunter Guardian Endgame.

[Delicious Vlish]

I have been finished for quite some time now, but wanted to digest the endgame. G3 has one great new worthwhile makes the game worth the money you pay for it feature. Missiles are good stuff now. And that has been hashed over many times. Rather than talk about just the missiles, I would rather talk about the actual endgame.

 

Here there be spoilers. So BEWARE and read no further if you don't want to be spoiled.

 

All this information applies to Torment difficulty. Other settings may not apply.

 

First off, batons run out of gas. You will hit dry spots. Like when you have a Venom Baton and you are just dying for an upgrade to a shiny new Acid Baton. Or when you have an Acid Baton that just aint cutting the mustard no more, and you really really want a Submission Baton. Each baton runs out of gas before you can get a new one. In one or two spots in the game, this was painfully so. I had to live by my wits. And just because you have a new baton does not mean to throw the old one away. You will run out of ammo types. And some foes are resistant to some types of magic, so it's better to swap out. And in some areas, you can mow down your foes with smaller calibre fire. So keep your Acid Baton, your Submission Baton, etc. And pay attention to enemy resists... Some foes resist certain damage types, so it's better to have another source of damage handy. Ammo can, at times, be troublesome. Turn over every nest, check every vase, loot every chest and closet. You are going to burn through living tools like mad... Even with the Unlock spell. Seeing pink thorns will fill you with joy. You will come to love Reapers.

 

Highlights.

 

The Golem Monstrosity in the corner of the lab. I had a buff Ur Glaahk keep him busy while I blasted away with whatever I had. I found that a Wand of Kill worked wonders on him. I burned up most of the wand, but it was worth every blast.

 

Destroyed Hoge with a large pack of Pyroroamers. Boom baby.

 

Monastary of tears and the cave of horrors below. I survived. I got chased out of there a few times. Had to do a reload, learned the hard way not to use Reapers on the randomly spawned monsters that come to ambush you. Got pretty bad there for a while, actually had to melee toe to toe a couple of times after being chased into a small alcove. Developed fade tactics, hit one target hard and fast, and run away before large mob does me in. Dicipline Wands, Wands of Death, Wands of the Inferno, and Corrupting Batons (Wands with Acid Shower) all proved their worth. Null wands, and wands of stun were handy as well. Terror wands saved my bacon down there more than once. The randomly spawned creations really kicked my hindquarters, made it hard to gain a foothold.

 

I regret not having Strong Daze. But my Guardian mostly ignored his magic skills. That said, Madness Gems with a high missile skill and a good solid dexterity score are lifesavers. Good to enough to keep at the ready as a panic button. In the caves, I was having my butt handed to me by that ghostly shaper fellow and his napalm shrubbery, plus all those random monsters out for an evening stroll by the River of Pain... And being overwhelmed, I burned a couple of Madness Gems. The resulting charms, dazes, and general disorder and confusion was all I needed to remedy the situation, take control, and trim that thrice damned shady shaper's infernal topiaries of torment.

 

All in all, there needs to be more regeants dropped. Endgame, I burned through wands and crystals at an alarming rate trying to keep up. Things like Vlish giblets and Artilla spleens need to drop more often. This remains a sore spot. There is not enough supply to keep up with the demand. IMHO, Jeff needs to tweak the drop rates of various bits of monster kibble that drop when you splat something.

 

I will say, he was more fun than my Agent. All those white knuckle moments really make the game a good thing.

[VCH]

Yeah, the drop rate for a lot of items should be incresed. Thats why I dont bothere with batons, on the chance I might run out of ammo.

[shell]

Quote:

Originally written by Delicious Vlish:
The Golem Monstrosity in the corner of the lab. I had a buff Ur Glaahk keep him busy while I blasted away with whatever I had. I found that a Wand of Kill worked wonders on him. I burned up most of the wand, but it was worth every blast.

That's a horrible waste of a perfectly good Kill wand! If you have any mechanics skill at all, and it doesn't take much, just power up the crystal in the southwest corner of the golem's enclosure. Leave your creations outside, and lead the foolish golem towards the crystal. A few turns later and the deed is done.

[Student of Trinity]

I am much less far along in the game with my Guardian, but already I can second DV's basic point that a Guardian on Torment in G3 is really hard, but doable, if you really play all your cards right. In comparison, the same game at the same setting was a walkover with an Agent, and only a bit harder with a Shaper (or even, as I said elsewhere, not really harder but just harder-seeming, because your creations get knocked around a bit on the way to your inevitable victory).

 

Is this bad, or good, or what? I dunno. It somehow bothers me that the three classes are not equal, but really, who says they should be? As long as they're all viable, and they are, then is it bad for the Guardian to be a lot harder to play on Torment? In G1 I seem to remember it being explicitly stated somewhere in the game that at low difficulty settings Agents were the hardest to play and Guardians the easiest, but that the opposite would be true at higher difficulty settings. This wasn't true in G2, because Parry made Guardians very easy to play even on Torment. But it seems to have come back into force in G3.

 

So I guess it's okay. With a Guardian, Torment is really Torment. Try it if you're shaper-of-ambiguous-gender enough!

[Delicious Vlish]

Quote:

Originally written by shell:

Quote:

Originally written by Delicious Vlish:
The Golem Monstrosity in the corner of the lab. I had a buff Ur Glaahk keep him busy while I blasted away with whatever I had. I found that a Wand of Kill worked wonders on him. I burned up most of the wand, but it was worth every blast.

That's a horrible waste of a perfectly good Kill wand! If you have any mechanics skill at all, and it doesn't take much, just power up the crystal in the southwest corner of the golem's enclosure. Leave your creations outside, and lead the foolish golem towards the crystal. A few turns later and the deed is done.

I don't know how to answer this with out sounding crazy... But I played my Guardian in character. He hunted... And he battled. I could have used that stone yes... And my Guardian would have been cheated out of his epic shooting match with said golem. I don't expect you to understand my reasonings for this, but may I remind you, this is a roleplaying game He won honourably and with dignity. He faced the creature on it's own terms and bested it in deadly combat.

[Delicious Vlish]

Quote:

Originally written by Student of Trinity:
I am much less far along in the game with my Guardian, but already I can second DV's basic point that a Guardian on Torment in G3 is really hard, but doable, if you really play all your cards right. In comparison, the same game at the same setting was a walkover with an Agent, and only a bit harder with a Shaper (or even, as I said elsewhere, not really harder but just harder-seeming, because your creations get knocked around a bit on the way to your inevitable victory).

Is this bad, or good, or what? I dunno. It somehow bothers me that the three classes are not equal, but really, who says they should be? As long as they're all viable, and they are, then is it bad for the Guardian to be a lot harder to play on Torment? In G1 I seem to remember it being explicitly stated somewhere in the game that at low difficulty settings Agents were the hardest to play and Guardians the easiest, but that the opposite would be true at higher difficulty settings. This wasn't true in G2, because Parry made Guardians very easy to play even on Torment. But it seems to have come back into force in G3.

So I guess it's okay. With a Guardian, Torment is really Torment. Try it if you're shaper-of-ambiguous-gender enough!

I would like to add, my Guardian was fairly buff near the end. He had used a lot of canisters. He had a fair score in melee weapons, parry, and quick action. He had some endurance, and could cast Augmentation. He carried lots of spare Armor Potions. And inspite of all this, he got TORE up in melee. Toe to toe combat was painful at best... But in a few situations it had to be done. He could face most creatures one on one... And survive. He would need healing, but he would survive. More than one... Like two or three, and he could not cut the mustard. While he was incredibly hard to hit, (Those Rotty-zon thingies had like a low teens to hit chance) when he did get hit, he got his clock cleaned. I would imagine that it would be incredibly frusterating to play a melee Guardian through Torment. I think once you hit about Dhonal's Island, you would have a hard time keeping up with the cost of healing. And having to burn through Essence Pods every single map so you could cast Augmentation to keep up with toe to toe melee. If you even had enough essence to cast Augmentation at that time and still keep a creation around. I think it could be done... I do not doubt that at all... I am just highly dubious of my ability to keep my own sanity doing it. In my own choice of play, Run and Gun™ is the best way to go. And melee weapons just plain suck now... It takes bloody forever to get a half way decent melee weapon, and by then, you don't want to get near anything to poke something with it.

[Student of Trinity]

Trouble is that my Guardian Sulla is the uber-loyalist, and would rather die than touch a canister.

 

As to a good melee weapon, Sulla's extreme loyalty to Shaper principles does not seem to extend to any Shapers as individuals. Like my Agent and even my Shaper before him, he will be stealing Lord Rhanul's Guardian Claymore. He just has to figure out how to take those two pet Ur-Glaahks single-handed. Hey, he might actually find a use for a Fiery Wand!

 

Seriously, though, I'm not sure Sulla is going to be able to make it all the way. No canisters, and he started with what would have been a game-breaking edge in G2, and is a terrible handicap in G3, a Parry of 10.

[Delicious Vlish]

In G2, I never really pumped Parry much to be honest. I found it... Cheesy. Sort of a self nerf if you will. I tried a Hunter Guardian in G2. It was a complete and utter failure.

 

As for stealing the claymore... I was never able to do that midgame as of yet. Perhaps on a lower difficulty one might... But two Ur Glaahks is just to much hurt. I tried everything, to no avail. Had to wait till endgame when I killed the Lord of the Manor. I have found however, that a Shaped Blade or the Singing sword thingy that you can find on a beach on Dhonal along with a gemstone that makes it drip acid is really quite handy and for the most part, serviceable. Why acid? Monsters heal to damned fast. Acid slows down that white bar creeping back up.

 

BTW, notice the spelling errors where he called "Lard Ruhal"?

[Student of Trinity]

My previous Agent and Shaper both looted Rahul's bedroom as soon as they got into the keep. My Shaper took the two Ur-Glaahks single-handed, and he was quite the wimp. But he had Speed and enough energy to use it, so he kept just standing in the doorway with 12AP, shooting and closing the door and repeating. I don't think poor Sulla is going to have 100 Energy by then, so he will have to try burning through speed pods, and hoping to do it quicker by doing more damage. We'll see.

[Slawbug]

I strongly, strongly recommend the Regeneration enchancement for your melee weapon of choice. A hasted guardian or agent with AP boosts can heal a decent chunk of damage every turn, in addition to killing something. Combine with Daze, and keep a few Healing Pods on hand for emergencies, and you shouldn't have any problems at all.

[Student of Trinity]

Thanks for the tip about regeneration.

 

I successfully robbed Rahul's bedroom. Two speed pods, two wands, two dead Ur-Glaahks, no big deal. Just keep closing the door after you shoot, then repeat until they're crispy.

 

What a haul. Guardian's Claymore, Puresteel Plate, 20 Shaped Lances, and a bunch of other nice bits and pieces.

 

With the Claymore and the Puresteel Plate, I've been chopping up Runed Serviles almost like the good old days in G2. Can't say I found the Shaped Lances all that tremendous; they dent the Runed Serviles, but they certainly don't take them down in one shot. I only have Missile Weapons 9 at this point.

[Contra]

You actually got Regenation to work? I tried that and Speed, it never did anything for me.

 

Ami missing-out on something?

[Slawbug]

I never got any results from Speed (perhaps it ups Quick Action?) or from regeneration on armor.

 

Regeneration on a melee weapon heals you every time you hit an enemy! (Not Quick Action hits, though.) It's around 15-20 HP of healing (or was by the time I tried it, anyway), so if you do three melee attacks in a round, that's a lot of HP.

[Delicious Vlish]

I am not sure if I paid attention... But which doodad provides regeneration?

[Student of Trinity]

It's the 'Reviving Crystal', the dark sphere-in-a-claw one that's worth 750. I've just added one to my Claymore, and now that I've got the Crystalline Shroud, we'll see how the rogues like the combination.

 

I'm looking forward to some steel spines. I only just realized that those ivory skulls are enhancers, giving you curse power. Sounds cool, but not terribly effective.

 

I mostly cleaned out Spharon solo. Alwan got blown away very early both above and below ground, but with the Claymore and Puresteel Plate, an Armor Potion and Augmentation, constant Bless and Protection, and a fair number of crystals, one melee Guardian could take all those Runed Serviles and their master. The trick was not to be ashamed to run away around a corner to heal up, which high Quick Action lets you do. High stun resistance was also very important, so that after getting hit hard several times I still had enough AP to make it around that corner.

[VCH]

You would think Rahul would notice his stuff was missing and come after your character.

[Student of Trinity]

Hey, he told me to be resourceful and scrounge stuff. I'm just following orders.

 

If he didn't want me to take this stuff, he shouldn't have left it just lying around behind a bunch of elite guards and battle betas, two locked doors, two Ur-Glaahks and a text box.

 

I'm putting it to better use than he was, anyway.

 

"I proclaim first of all my complete innocence, and secondly the absence of criminal intent."

[Khoth]

When I tried the spines, they were pretty lame. They hardly reflect any damage.

[Slawbug]

My "enchancements" thread has disappeared, I guess. But some of them are quite useful. Regeneration I've mentioned. Steel spines are REALLY powerful on armor, for a guardian. Their effect is CUMULATIVE and NEVER MISSES, and all it takes is two or three spined pieces of equipment to start doing several times the damage, from spines, that you take from an enemy hit.

 

Really the only other enhancement to consider for armor is the Golden Crystal, which gives 5% resistance to everything. Use 5 or 6 of them and that's a hefty damage reduction. A lot of enemies late in the game have powerful breath attacks, so that's really useful.

 

"Curse power" on weapons delivers a light curse with every non-Quick Action hit. On armor, it gives you a +5% bonus to-hit (not sure if that's just with melee weapons, or with anything).

[Student of Trinity]

A little further along on Dhonal's Island, and I think my Sulla is going to be okay as a melee Guardian. Well, actually his Strength, Endurance, and Dexterity are all around 8, and his Melee Weapons, Missile Weapons, Quick Action and Parry are all around 10. While his Mech is decent everything else is pretty minimal. So his wands and crystals are quite effective, and his Shaped Lances at least whittle things down a bit. But with frequent second swings from QA, and a good blade courtesy of Lord Rahul, his best damage is definitely from melee.

 

Sulla hasn't made a Thahd or anything else since Harmony. In fact he has been having a lot of trouble keeping Alwan alive, and has been finishing a lot of fights on his own. I think Sulla would work fine as a singleton, but I want to keep Alwan around for companionship.

 

The point of Alwan's sudden jump in mortality is that Sulla has had a sudden jump in proficiency, and it was definitely stealing Rahul's gear that got him going. Since then it has kind of snowballed: he has gotten a lot of experience from clearing tough areas alone, and beating Spharon let him forge the Crystalline Shroud, and begin applying the game-breaking speed tactics that Agents thrive on.

[VCH]

I stole Rhaul's stuff too. But then I killed him so I was entitled.