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playing a guardian?


tomster

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The most obvious is the creation screen, where it says strong and weak. Guardians rely on strength. Invest in fighting skills, as well as default, such as strength and dexterity. Endurance is also helpful, but you won't need intelligence. Also general skills are good. If you are a guardian you won't really need shaping or magic skills. You should be stronger than all your creations, unlike a shaper.

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  • 2 weeks later...

my personal experience with Guardians and creations- make one artilla and one fyora ASAP, and keep them alive. Other than that, just ignore them. Ocassionally a thadd to walk through mines is usefull. Guardians are melee fighters, and should only need creations to pick off weaklings on the sidelines, or to hit something you either can't get to or haven't reached yet.

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In anticipation of GF3, my general interest in GFology (geneforgery?) is slowly reviving.

 

The problem with just pumping up melee, and only keeping a few early critters, is that it makes playing a Guardian feel a bit too much like playing an Agent. Sure, you're hitting instead of zapping, but it's still mostly just you taking on the monsters solo.

 

I always want to try to make the Guardian somewhere between the Agent and Shaper in style, by keeping a small team of good creations, with the Guardian as squad leader. Usually a couple of Artilas or Vlish seem like a good idea, to give my super-grunt some fire support. Somehow I've never really gotten this to work out, though. At some point the power of my Guardian surges so far ahead of the only creations he can make, that just keeping them alive becomes pointless and tedious. So long before the endgame, I find I've 'gone Matrix' (as in Colonel Matrix of _Commando_), and I'm taking out the enemy single-handed.

 

I think this is partly because abilities like Unlock and Speed are so attractive that I end up putting a fair number of points into magic, and have too little left to keep up both combat and creations. It might well be that if I tried harder I could get the squad-leader-Guardian to work better (just as I could probably find a way to make missile weapons work well for me, if I specialized in them consistently enough). Maybe there is some problem in balance with the Guardian; or maybe it's just that I really don't enjoy the micromanagement of creations, so I tend to slip into Agent-like solo mode as soon as I can.

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Hmm? How is it that you can't keep your creations close enough to you, or far enough behind that they end up dieing?

Anyways, your creations WILL end up as meatshields somewhere around level 25-30, but then again, that is their main function, even for shapers at endgame(genralization, the cryodryaks and battle betas can fight there, but thats about it.)

 

Sorry, i didn't notice yoru second question there tomster. By far the most vital stats for a Guardian are strength and dexterity, with melee weapons up to 10 a necessity, and quick action and anatomy falling in to tie for fourth, but at endgame, they overtake the dieing need for more melee skill. put about five points into missile at your convienance, and carry five to ten javelins for those times when you need to deal damage from a distance. But then again, thats what your fyora and artilla are for.

Also, altough this stategy falls under the agents realm, try to lure out enemies one at a time, and you can effectivly eliminate your need for healing spells/spores/pods. Keep a few around, though.

 

Also, you should never need to use a battle creation for actual battle, you yourself will always be superior to anything you can create for that purpose, unless you are going for a 'fake class' game, when you will already have mapped out your skill choices (at least partially) anyway, so.

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It's not that my creations fall behind me literally! Its that my Guardian's power so far outstrips theirs, that the amount of help they give me doesn't seem to justify the effort involved in keeping them alive. Even just using them as meatshields involves, at the very least, the tedious and distasteful exercise of micromanaging mass suicide in combat mode. For less effort, or at least for effort I find more agreeable, I can break up enemy groups with the Agent-like tactics you mention, of luring some around corners.

 

In the earlier stages of the game, I do find a few stalwart Artilas or Vlishes essential. But towards the end I seem to get more bang for my buck out of speed spells.

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wait, did you just try to argue with me by paraphrasing what I said? At teh begining, ranged creations, at end, creations useless, yup!

I tend to keep my artilla around just because its fun to kill the bigwigs with acid from a level 1 creation.(skill level, not exp level)

 

Also, if ever your in teh mood for a good laugh, use pyromroamers as meatshields! Now THATS micromanaging suicide!

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You definitely shouldn't neglect your creations, no matter which Shaper type you choose. I successfully implemented Trinity's "squad leader" approach, and my Guardian is my best character by far. Keep your combat stats up, to be sure, but it's always nice to have a meatshield that does more damage than it takes. Also, I almost always use some sort of unranged weapon - if you do too, you're definitely going to want a ranged creation.

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Nice to hear that the 'squad leader' Guardian can indeed be followed through to the endgame. I'll have to try harder next time.

 

But I really don't know about Agents keeping creations. It costs so many skill points, and so much essence, that are both better used elsewhere. And anyway much of the fun of playing an Agent is that you don't have to worry about looking after pets.

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I am currently playing a Guardian at dificulty level: tricky. I decided to specialize in one type of creation since learning more than one would use too many skill points that I need for combat and stats. I decided on magic shaping, althougn fire shaping would have been a good choice as well. I wanted a group of creations that included randged combatants as well as close combat experts. The Ur-Glaahks looked really good to me, and I have been experimenting with Vlish and Terror Vlish. Artilas and Searing Artilas have been disappointing for the end game.

 

I eventually added 4 levels to Magic Shaping, which combined with the canisters, tombs, and Shapers Robe, allows me to make 24th level Ur-Glaahks. They are a little tougher than the rogue Ur-Glaahks in the Shaper's/Inner Tombs. I also recommend adding at least 2 points of intelligence, so that with the canisters and items you have a 10 intelligence. This will give you enough essence at 20th level to have 3-5 creations, depending on what they are.

 

I have found that the Ur-Glaahks and Vlish/Terror Vlish are effective combatants and my Guardian is working more as a care taker than a fighter. He did make it to 19th level on his own before I started using creations.

 

Obviously there is a trade off on points. I have only put points into Healing Craft, and not any of the other types of magic.

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Hmmm. I still have the feeling that Guardians are unstable against morphing into burlier Shapers or Agents. That is, either they outstrip creations and become lone warriors that rely on speed like Agents, or else they look after a squad of creations like a Shaper, without doing much fighting themselves.

What I feel is missing is a 'killer app' for Guardians -- an effective basic tactic that they can do, that the other two classes cannot do.

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Well, in my mind, you can be one of 2 types of guardians, A shaping guardian, or a fighting one. You can put all of your points into fighting. I find this to give me an advantage early and a disadvantage late, being an agent that can fight very well, but will have no magic. However, taking a shaping Guardian will give you a bonus later, In other words, you are a shaper that can actually fight. However, you will have to go without blessing magic. My advice, forget about shaping until you reach the end of the demo part, then concentrate your skills on shaping. The fighting later on will be limited as your skill cost will increase at an alarming rate.

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Well, it could be that the 'killer app' for Guardians is just to be the easy class for beginners to get started with. What I think I'd like better, though, would be for Guardians to have a special affinity for Battle creations. I always tend to avoid those as a Shaper, so if Guardians used them really well it would make the game quite a bit different: manoeuvring your troops into close contact would be a major feature unique to the Guardian game.

 

Agents definitely work well as singletons, in both GFs. I've never really thought about trying them other ways, because other strategies would make them more like Shapers or Guardians, and I like them to be different.

 

What might be interesting, though, is to try a Shaper that is a bit Agent-like: accept a somewhat weaker creation army, but have high enough Battle Magic to give them good fire support.

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Especcially in GF2, guardians get a lot trikier to play later on. Their fighting skills get very expensive very quickly. And about creating, they dont have the EP of the shaper and perhaps more importantly lack the blessing magic to enhance your creations. And they dont get much better at thier fighting skills. So, yes, guardians are very hard to use later. The only thing going for them is that they can get a very good parry which can make them hard to hurt.(They dont have that in GF1)

 

Oh, and just a suggestion: get only one area of shaping, forget 2 of them. (Personally, I would suggest fire shaping)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Quote:
Originally written by tomster:
HI

should i put anything into shaping....what skills are the best for a guardian?

Tom
Well, i played the entire, yes the entire, demo of G1, as a guardian, i had an army of Creations at my side, casted fireballs, and hit like a Drake. You need to work on everything you can.
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