Geneforge 5: Overthrow - August Update

[Sudanna]

Yep. Dead, dead, dead. Shapers got 'em.

[*i]

New screenshots are available.

[Sudanna]

Oooh, Alwan is kickass.

[Randomizer]

I still think Jeff shouldn't have used Delicious Vlish's Shaper Council invitation quest. The paper is easy, but having to find the seven different colored inks and hand deliver the invitations was ridiculous.

[nikki.]

So, we know Alwan survives the end of Geneforge 4, but given his current state, it's still entirely possibly that the Rebel ending was chosen to be the starting point for the new game - he could easily have been left for dead, and then shielded himself and slipped out of Northforge. Although, if he's needing supports to keep him standing up, that's not overly likely.

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: ANIKaytar

So, we know Alwan survives the end of Geneforge 4, but given his current state, it's still entirely possibly that the Rebel ending was chosen to be the starting point for the new game - he could easily have been left for dead, and then shielded himself and slipped out of Northforge. Although, if he's needing supports to keep him standing up, that's not overly likely.

He could have been left for dead, regained consciousness in the darkened lab, and used the last of his essence to shape a Fyora to drag him to the nearest Shaper camp.

[Student of Trinity]

If you think about it, 'shape a Fyora to drag me to safety' is probably the Shaper school equivalent of a fire drill.

[Luca]

So, is Nebulan to gather that the begining changes depending on what character you choose?

[Acky]

Oh my god, alwan is so cool. His situation reminds me of Eliza's Shaftoes and Moseh's, with the whole "Needs a tube up my thigh to feed me". And I guess Greta was killed. A shame. I wanted her more. I wonder who this Rawul is too. Maybe on your way to some general to get orders, he captures you and he makes you his personal servants. And not to mention the Shaper council. Since the Shapers are split, perhaps the council has gathered to "resolve thier diffrences". One third sides with the Moderetes, one third goes with the Extremists, and the last third is trying to be nuetral.

 

Oh I can't wait to go on a bizerck ranpage and kill all those who question my sanity one last time. Plus I noticed that the Fyora graphic wasen't change for the first time.

 

 

>The Dragon Lord Akavon makes a few plans. Be assured that Rawul will regret the day he messed with his level one PC<

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: Akavon the Dragon Lord

Oh my god, alwan is so cool. His situation reminds me of Eliza's Shaftoes and Moseh's, with the whole "Needs a tube up my thigh to feed me". And I guess Greta was killed. A shame. I wanted her more. I wonder who this Rawul is too. Maybe on your way to some general to get orders, he captures you and he makes you his personal servants. And not to mention the Shaper council. Since the Shapers are split, perhaps the council has gathered to "resolve thier diffrences". One third sides with the Moderetes, one third goes with the Extremists, and the last third is trying to be nuetral.

Oh I can't wait to go on a bizerck ranpage and kill all those who question my sanity one last time. Plus I noticed that the Fyora graphic wasen't change for the first time.


>The Dragon Lord Akavon makes a few plans. Be assured that Rawul will regret the day he messed with his level one PC<

I see no reason to think Greta is dead. Assuming there was a Trakovite/Rebel ending, which seems most likely at this point, I'd assume Greta's either alive and well, or in a similiar condition.

Rawul looks like he's your owner, if you play as a Servile.

The Council has always been. They're the government of the Shapers, and by extension, the Shaper Empire. I've been waiting for a chance to wring their necks. And also, to talk with them.

[Slawbug]

I'm somewhat skeptical that the opening is different depending on your character choice: although neat, it's pretty contrary to Jeff's design philosophy.

[Luca]

It is unlikely

but that servile screenshot's caption made Neb think...

[Sudanna]

Nethergate, Slarty?

[Luca]

this is slightly more complex than nethergate

ever so slightly

[Sudanna]

Not really. Slightly more complicated since there are three possible endings.

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted By: Yelbis Eceer Nalyd

Nethergate, Slarty?

Where's Tyranicus when you need him...
Anyway, in Nethergate, you get different beginnings, different stories, depending on whether you're Roman or Celtic. Two sides of the same story, so to speak.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Nebulan

So, am I to gather that the begining changes depending on what character you choose?

Yes. If you are a servile, then almost everyone considers you lower on the social scale than the other 8 character classes. The other 8 classes are still considered to be one step up from a trained dog, you are a trained speaking dog (see here ). Shaper Rawal puts you in your place and gets to the heart of the matter, you are minion.

The beginning is the same for everyone. The changes come when you pick a faction to align with and do their quests to prove your loyalty. There are 5 factions and staying with Shaper Rawal your original master as a 6th one. There are 12 endings based upon which side, rebel or shaper, you side with for the final battle, I think. Jeff promises the final part next week.

It is possible to powergame a bit and change factions by doing quests for a different faction. However being able to join factions depends upon your rebel/shaper reputation so the list of ways to change that reputation will be very important to powergamers.

Also some factions become inaccessible if you kill off certain NPCs.

[Xaiya]

Hmm, a couple scenarios I didn't think of before.

 

Greta thinks she kills Alwan but Alwan survives...

 

Alwan kills Greta, but is seriously wounded in the process...

 

Or maybe another one...

 

Either way, I will find out eventually!

[Slawbug]

So here's a question Jeff has hinted at, but nobody has asked. This is a good one for you Random.

 

How balanced are the creations this time, particularly the battle creations?

[Luca]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

Yes. If you are a servile, then almost everyone considers you lower on the social scale than the other 8 character classes. The other 8 classes are still considered to be one step up from a trained dog, you are a trained speaking dog.

Nebulan is familiar with the geneforge story, he only wondered if the character's physical start location would change based on your character type.

[Acky]

Originally Posted By: Slarty

So here's a question Jeff has hinted at, but nobody has asked. This is a good one for you Random.

How balanced are the creations this time, particularly the battle creations?

My thoughts exactly. He said he would give them a bunch of health and lower there Essence cost, but I don't think that would cut it. If anything, the first thing they need is more strength. Because a creation that is ment for melee dosen't have as much melee strength as a creation that is ment for range, this is a clear sigh that they need alot of love (prefurably a big hug full of stats). As for the Alwan/Greta situation, I agree with Iffy that at least one of them were killed. Now that we've seen Alwan, its safe to say that Greta was killed.


Edit

Quote:

The beginning is the same for everyone. The changes come when you pick a faction to align with and do their quests to prove your loyalty. There are 5 factions and staying with Shaper Rawal your original master as a 6th one. There are 12 endings based upon which side, rebel or shaper, you side with for the final battle, I think. Jeff promises the final part next week.

Horahhhh. Unaligned is an option.

[Randomizer]

Creations are the one thing I really haven't tried beyond the traditional cryoa.

I got screwed over by a game bug and couldn't buy shaping training for what I wanted without restarting my game. So I'll need a new character to really try it.

 

Jeff has been tweaking the costs for some of the creations. Wingbolts were too cheap.

 

I've been running the much maligned guardian without too much difficulty and the agent is a breeze once I figured out how to fix it for the revised spells. I'm trying to find time to get a servile into the main part of the game so I can get more of the fun special dialogue it gets. I tried the new class, but after the aggravation of getting through one area I can't wait to try more powerful creations with it, plus the build needs work.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Oh, missed a page.

[Student of Trinity]

I've found a couple of battles in which shaping a bunch of disposable battle creations was the key to victory, when nothing else worked. I can't say whether they'll be worth keeping around as starting players, but I think they'll at least have a role.

[Randomizer]

I think creations will be helpful, but there are several boss fights where there are area effects that will affect them. Charm and terror seem to be the worst.

 

I think you might have had a problem with your character build, since I could eventually get through all the zones with a single character on torment. Swarms were the worst problem, but liberal use of crystals seems to cure the problem by killing your opponents.

[Luca]

I'm still pulling for the old shaper graphic to come back

[Xaiya]

*sigh*

Did you know that you could just replace the graphics in the Data folder?

 

Easy as...killing a goblin with a GOD party.

 

Just make sure the numbers match up, okay?

[Luca]

I did indeed know this, and I am very computer literate. I just don't want to correct somthing that other people may feel similar on.

It's just, I can't see people being in aww/fear of somthing that looks just alittle cheesey. It also looks very female, not to say that's bad, but...

 

You know, Jeff could have made it so you could chose your gender, he has enough graphics for it.

[Sudanna]

Nalyd thinks the new graphic cool. Very dapper, like a Victorian-era suit. 'Cept not.

[Dragonflame]

Originally Posted By: Evnissyen

I'm hoping he means brand new spells.

More spells would be good but for me i never use them, except healing and sometimes fire.

[Lifecrafterandnoobeditor]

I agree with Nebulan on the graphics one, as the Shock Trooper just doesnt look cool. Fingers crossed for jeff to make a awesome graphic for the new race?

[Xelgion]

I highly doubt that Jeff is going to make big changes on the graphics for the Players Character, considering how far he is in the game. If he allowed you to choose gender, he would have to edit all of the scripts, replacing "hes" with "shes" and so forth.

 

It could happen, but I doubt it.

[Dikiyoba]

Except the PC's gender is never specified in the text anyway.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Luca]

This is true, the amount of changes required would less then you think.

Not that it would matter anyway, if he doesn't put the G1 & 2 shaper back I'll just change it anyway

[Slawbug]

The real issue is the graphics. As mentioned in the past, apparently those Poser models take a very long time to create and properly render.

 

For that reason, it seems pretty likely that the new image we saw was for the new, 9th class -- which it looked fitting for anyway.

[Luca]

But for the shaper, new graphic would not be required.

[Randomizer]

Jeff had to adjust all the graphics to work with OS 10.5 and he is now using OpenGL so there have been some more changes from the earlier games. The graphics aren't completely the same as in older games.

[Lifecrafterandnoobeditor]

Nice, and yes Nebulan the shaper graphic was cool, but wouldnt it be better if that was your graphic if you shaper align, and you get a graphic radically different if your a rebel?

[Luca]

I mean not to be rude but I don't understand.

Please rephrase.

[A less presumptuous name.]

i think he's saying that it would be cool to have the graphic of shapers if you ally with them, but have a different graphic for the same character if you side with another faction

correct me if im wrong, but thats my understanding

[Eldibs]

How about better crafting? I mean, item enhancements and artifact making are neat and all, but it would be nice to actually have something to do with all those iron bars and hammers that seem to be lying around everywhere. Heck, you could even have a few quests involving it, like "I don't have permission to use the enchanted anvil at the fort, but you do. Could you take these items and make this item for me?"

 

And how about those hatchets/hammers actually being usable as a weapon? You can pick up a stick and fend off your foes, but you can't snatch up a nearby hatchet and split some skull?

[Xelgion]

Thats one thing I wanted to change, another was the fact of weapon limitations, about 95% of Geneforges melee weapons are swords, that 5% being a stick. Why can't we have hatchets or spears? And ranged weapon are batons and javelins, why not bows?

[Nioca]

I can explain that: with the advent of creations and their abilities to rend their foes, humans didn't need to focus nearly as extensively on mundane weaponry. Who needs to invent bows when you already have the living equivalent of a semi-automatic pistol? Who needs cannons when you have Artila? As for why swords only, as stated before, not that much attention needs to be paid toward mundane kinds of weaponry. That said, the weapons racks seen in GF3 and GF4 do contain spears, pikes, and halberds. More likely, the reason spears aren't used is because the Shapers' standing army breathes fire and lacks opposable thumbs. Well, mostly. And the Shapers probably would refrain from carrying weapons that could slow them down or interfere with Shaping.

[Randomizer]

I think a simpler explanation is Jeff got lazy. The older Exile games had axes and crushing weapons. Jeff cut back on weapon types and now we just have the sword class.

[Acky]

Frankly, I have always found it annoying that we see spears and halbergs but we can't use them. Thats like giving a monkey a banna peal

[Xelgion]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

we just have the sword class.

No, no, not the sword class the "melee" class. Tongue.

[Eldibs]

Quote:

I can explain that: with the advent of creations and their abilities to rend their foes, humans didn't need to focus nearly as extensively on mundane weaponry.

Yes, but in the wilder parts of the world (where the first four games take place), Shapers aren't exactly found on every street corner. For instance, in Geneforge 3, you find something like 1-3 full shapers per island MAXIMUM. Besides, don't forget that outsiders are often hired by the Shapers as bodyguards/warriors/etc... and need effective weaponry to defend themselves.

Quote:

More likely, the reason spears aren't used is because the Shapers' standing army breathes fire and lacks opposable thumbs.

If memory serves correctly, Thahds and Battle Alphas/Betas serve as the backbone of the Shaper army. Surely if they can use armor (as evidenced by them dropping Chitin/Iron armor fairly regularly) they can use weapons too.

[Acky]

Still, the shapers wouldn't give their creations weapons in the possible event a Battle Alpha would go rogue. An angry Battle Alpha gone rogue is bad enough without a halberd. As for human warriors, creations are the majority of Shaper armies so they would care about their creations before thier

Human warriors.

 

And only GF2 takes place in the wilderness. GF1 takes place on an abandoned shaper research iland. GF3 is on some distant small ilands in the middle of the ocean. Gf4 takes place in the already settled Eastern Terristia.

[Dikiyoba]

Maybe the combat styles in the Geneforge world make swords really effective, while spears and other weapons are not.

 

(Dikiyoba just ignores the weapon racks. They're obviously there just to make places prettier, like all those shelves with stuff on them you can't loot.)

[Arori4]

This is gonna be soooo awesome, Alwan dying and the rebel ending was so likely but with Alwan still, shapers have a chance. What about Miranda?