Seasoned Roamer Silb Aran Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 (From a regular player of JV's games. Hi, fellow players:) Breaking news - there's a post about Geneforge 4 right on Joystiq.com . That's a really popular news source. Plus, the post links for further info to an interview with Jeff, where the game comes off looking really good. ...Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Thanks for the link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk MagmaDragoon Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Thank you by me too. And welcome to the Boards. EDIT: See? GF4 is attracting new people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 It mentions A4, which reminds me of something. I'm surprised that Jeff has never attributed the commercial success of A4 to the most obvious thing: the popularity of the previous Exile/Avernum games. It was the first all-new game in a very popular series in several years. Simply making an "Avernum 4" guaranteed that it would sell well, and it still would have even if it were just a port of Kill Ogre, Win Prize to the Geneforge engine. Still, on a more relevant topic, I'm definitely going to play GF4's demo, and there's a good chance that I'll actually get the full version and finish the game, which I didn't do with GF3. I like all of the things that he's saying about GF4. New AP system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Remember that, because of the way registration is handled, Jeff has a fairly decent idea how many of the people who buy his games are returning customers, or new ones. I suspect that the commercial success of A4 really was due to higher numbers of new customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Takes some getting used to, but overall it's better. It's still a turn-based, AP-based system in the Spiderweb tradition. We're talking signficant tweak, not total replacement. More than that I guess I'm not supposed to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Quote: New AP system? I can neither confirm nor deny details of said system, however, I can say that it is a lot more flexible, forgiving, sensical, and fun than in the previous games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I can additionally confirm that combat has become much harder to accidentally screw up in stupid ways. —Alorael, who very much likes that change and its associated marked downturn in the number of useless party members per encounter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Igor Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Perhaps a direct link, since joystiq has posted about 20 articles since this thread was made. here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk MagmaDragoon Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Innovation about combat system? This sounds interesting. Not because I don't like APs, but they should be more... flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Andraste Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Dang. Everything that I read about GF4 makes me want it to come out faster. Or get a MAC. The new sneaking system sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 -X- will hazard a guess on the new Action Point system. -X- thinks that it either has a "Confirm" option at the end of each turn, or an "Undo Last Move" option. -X- is probably wrong, but if he is right, he hopes that it is the first option. -X- also suspects that, unlike it's predecessors, your turn will not be ended if you don't have enough Action Points to attack. -X- prays to Urrrachti that he is right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Uhg... a confirm option. Say it isn't so! The only time I've ever found one of these useful is when I'm about to destroy an army of monsters in front of me with a spell and several of them are, in fact, allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I wouln't mind a confirm message if you were about to do something massive. Like Aura of Flames, for example. I wouldn't want an undo option, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I can confirm that the change is not a confirm or undo command. While it gets rid of a common error that players make it can be a pain when you see what the monsters can now do with the change. It only takes a little while to figure out how to adapt and it does make playing much easier. Still the new AP combat system works better than in the previous games. Also some spells and creations have been changed from the previous games, but that always happens in Spiderweb games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 The real question is what's up with the Vlish. Are they still overpowered enough to warrant being called Vlishnu's avatara? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 -X- will hazard another guess, since his previous one was brutally cut down in it's prime. -X-'s Plan B is that there is something resembling the "target and space bar" system of Avernums 1-3. -X- is probably wrong, Again, but he has a Plan C, too. -X-'s Plan C is that there is a "probe" spell or skill. For example, you find a new creation. You do not know what this creation is. You cast a spell, "Essence Sight" or something that tells you the creations abilities, resistances, method of attack, etc. This is also implementable in skill form, i.e. a "Shaper Knowledge" skill. If you have "X" amount of this skill, more creation descriptions become available, and new abilities for your own creations are discovered. nothing big, like at level 10 Shaper Knowledge you discover that your fyora can take down a Battle Gamma, but tiny stuff, like a vlish can weaken an opponents mental resistance, making more vulnerable to Daze(By about 10%). -X- also suspects that enemy creations will have the spell/skill as well. They will be able to see that your magic and acid resistances are 127%, and will stop using Searer, and bite you. -X- hopes that he is at least partially right on at least one of these counts, and if not they will at least be vaguely wanted but not added due to the fact that the coding required for reducing and increasing resistances has not been seen in this world. -X- thinks that they are good ideas, even if they will ineveitably wither, die, and be forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I can neither confirm nor deny said confirm feature, giving such confirmation would result in confirming such a confirm option which is not to be confirmed nor denied, especially when confirmation is done about confirming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Quote: Originally written by *i:I can neither confirm nor deny said confirm feature, giving such confirmation would result in confirming such a confirm option which is not to be confirmed nor denied, especially when confirmation is done about confirming. Can I quote you on that? Stareye confirms that confirmation of confirm cannot be confirmed. News at 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 After hours of thought, and patting -X-'s stomach after a hearty meal of fluffy turtles, the sanity of which is nonexistant, and at least two hours of posting and playing Nethergate AT THE SAME TIME, -X- has decided to take that as a "No." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I wonder if it involves being able to switch places with an ally, as you could do back in Exile? That would eliminate half the trouble involved with engine-assigned click-movement, and it would give the enemies new options as Randomizer said. I'm doubtful, but hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 As long as there is a range indicator for movement and spells, I'm happy. My problem sometimes was being .1 AP away from a melee attack because the enemy was just out of range. Perhaps if I knew that first things would be less annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 A range indicator, like in Fallout? I like it, especially for the Geneforge AP style. This gets my Emperor's Seal of Approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I haven't played Fallout, but I envision a circle for the default attack or spell being used which shows what can be hit using your current AP (movement + action cost). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Andraste Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 A range chart/circle thing would be great. My characters were always one square away from attacking and were usually stunned the next turn. So annoying. Man, I can't wait any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 The way Fallout worked was that instead of showing you a big range circle, it just showed the exact number of action points required to move to where ever your cursor was. Nice and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 There have been a fair number of creation changes and some of the combat changes make the more abusive and abusable tricks no longer so tricky. The problem all of you seem to have with range hasn't been entirely fixed, but it's no longer a problem as far as I'm concerned. —Alorael, who considered that one of the better changes after he got past the initial shock of change. Geneforge 4 delivers in the little things as well as the plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 The only problem I have with range is accidentally clicking next to a character rather than on it, wasting action points by running around, which is my own stupid fault. The hints about Geneforge 4 have been very encouraging. It sounds like it will be an excellent game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Silb Aran Posted October 21, 2006 Author Share Posted October 21, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Transportion:There have been a fair number of creation changes and some of the combat changes make the more abusive and abusable tricks no longer so tricky. Abusive tricks are all the fun, though. But I suppose the better ones are still there? Acid Rain, run behind a corner. "Really Annoying Bug takes 23 damage" over and over. Oooh, 18 damage *eats popcorn* ooh, 15 damage. And the Glaahk trick? The simplest are the best. Stun. Stun. Haha, stun. Stun again. Guess what? stun. And of course there's this really abusive one where you play as an agent. I'm in the league of people who can't wait one month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 What about the problem of trying to get one of your characters to position themselves directly above an enemy? It can be extremely hard (sometimes it seems impossible) to click in the right place without having the enemy highlighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk MagmaDragoon Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Yeah... It may be useful a grid button that allow you to see a grid and order to a character to move in the square in front at the enemy. This, though, would tell you how many AP you need to attack someone, since you'll have just to count squares. I hope I'm clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Emperor Tullegolar Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 The problem with geneforge is that one "square" doesn't equal one AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 No, but it equals one half an AP, so you can plan if you know what you're doing. For instance if you're hasted from 9 AP you often have 13.5, and you can use that .5. And, uh, the abusive tricks. Not all are gone, but a good many of the most egregious ones are history, and my initial chagrin was quickly replaced with appreciation. The turn-based combat system is still stylized in nature, of course, with a fair amount of vital tactics revolving around artificial engine features. But overall the new system is a more reasonable stylization of fantasy combat. Of course you can't actually play an Agent since you are a rebel, but there is a comparable class. I'm not sure how to play it now, since I used to rely on a lot of tricks that don't work any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Delicious Vlish Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity:No, but it equals one half an AP, so you can plan if you know what you're doing. For instance if you're hasted from 9 AP you often have 13.5, and you can use that .5. And, uh, the abusive tricks. Not all are gone, but a good many of the most egregious ones are history, and my initial chagrin was quickly replaced with appreciation. The turn-based combat system is still stylized in nature, of course, with a fair amount of vital tactics revolving around artificial engine features. But overall the new system is a more reasonable stylization of fantasy combat. Of course you can't actually play an Agent since you are a rebel, but there is a comparable class. I'm not sure how to play it now, since I used to rely on a lot of tricks that don't work any more. Yeah. The unkindest cut of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I think the class will still work, it just won't be the monster we've gotten used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Well, the most maligned Agent trick was probably the Haste-Combat-Scoot-Firebolt-Flee-Endcombat-Repeat cycle. Given the changes that have been made to stealth, I'm guessing that's been nerfed somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug shadowss Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Well about the grid, it would be nice for the player to be on the grid space, but not between the two grid spaces... + you can just cut the grid space into 1/4 to handle the 1/2 point AP reduction... --hope it helps-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Characters are just on grid spaces. It's just that one grid space is only 1/2 AP. The system really works fine now. —Alorael, who assures you that you can play an agent in everything but name. It's just that you'll have to do it with less engine abuse, or at least with novel and exciting engine abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd adad64 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 This makes me glad we have only macs. (We have like 4!) I'm biased against windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Transportion:...or at least with novel and exciting engine abuse. That's the spirit. May the way of the Red Mage lead to the Triforce! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk MagmaDragoon Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 No tricks with Guardian! About that... I think that in the benginning there will be an advantage for who combat in meele. It just me, but I think magic will be in a more advanced place in the game. At least, advanced magery: Firebolt and Small Heal are essential. And some other questions about the Shaping Skills... Will they be more relevant on the creature? Or they still just need when you shape something? And the Shaping is still "Click-And-Shape" method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Shaping hasn't really changed mechanically, just a few of the creations. Jeff's been working on making it more useful and relevant, though, with good results. —Alorael, who must reiterate that the missing sixth class is the one he thinks he'd actually like the most and quite possibly find the most abusable. Jeff thinks it would be too weak. Now stew in your lack of information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Quote: Originally written by YATT:—Alorael, who must reiterate that the missing sixth class is the one he thinks he'd actually like the most and quite possibly find the most abusable. Jeff thinks it would be too weak. Now stew in your lack of information! That's interesting. Hmm. Magic with Shaping, or Combat with Magic? Must be one of those -- though perhaps I'm still stuck in the old Geneforge paradigm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 The GF4 version of agent is still overpowered, but some of the tricks need to be revised. You'll see when it comes out. I tested a variation of Delicious Vlsih's tactics with great success. Figuring out movement and targeting in advanced still hasn't been fixed, but if Jeff starts now then the game will be delayed even more. The game is a little more forgiving of errors than it used to be. Still I lost a few turns with accidental clicks on my character or next to the monster instead of on the monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Hopefully he fixed the Artilla. While the creation description stressed the so-called fact it was fragile, I repeatedly sent it into melee with tremendous success. Sometimes I'd just send it into melee without it firing a shot beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 The creations have actually become more differentiated in each game. In G1, with high enough shaping skill, an Artila would not be easily distinguished from any other creature. The biggest jump was between G1 and G2. Since we have new creations again, it's probably a safe bet the old ones were tweaked as well. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Maybe the clawbugs will actually do poison damage too... One can only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Spidweb Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 The main action point change is that you can now attack when you have any action points left. This makes combat far more different that you might think at first. Pods, spores and crystals are now much more useful. However, the enemy much more frequently gets a shot at you. It's taken a bit of rebalancing, but I'm really happy with the change. The character type I left out was strong shaping, medium magic, weak combat. I liked it least of the six possibilities. I thought it was overpowered, too one-dimensional (a wispy little thing who puts tons of skill points into intelligence, and then you die if something looks at you) and least adaptable to different styles of play. At any rate, it's too late to debate it. Even if I'd ever had time to get the graphics for a sixth character type (I didn't). - Jeff Vogel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Spidweb:The character type I left out was strong shaping, medium magic, weak combat. Huh. So... you left out the Shaper proper. O_o Surprising. But fitting, I suppose, given that the PC is, after all, not a Shaper (either sensu stricto or sensu lato). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Delicious Vlish Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Erm, at the risk of inciting wrath, strong magic, average shaping, weak battle skills. Strong shaping, medium magic, and weak battle skills is the standard shaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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