What do YOU want to see in G4?

[lowbaca]

you know how you can eather be a servile lover/hater?

 

well why can't you mistreat your own creations?

 

i know it sounds mean and all, but wouldn't it be neat?

[lowbaca]

sinc there are continents still not enhabited, maybe have another "shaper" society with different beliefs.

 

how about, instead of absolute control, they worship the creatures.and the humans would be "slaves", but not absolutely.

[Dolphin]

Quote:

Originally written by lowbaca:
you know how you can eather be a servile lover/hater?

well why can't you mistreat your own creations?

i know it sounds mean and all, but wouldn't it be neat?

I think I would pass on that one. If you damage your creations they wouldn't be very useful protectors.

If you really want to hurt them you could make and absorb them a lot, or hit them a few times and heal them, but that sounds a bit off to me.

Edit: sp

[lowbaca]

and why do you always have to join a faction, well not have to, but you know what i mean.

 

it would be cool if you started your own faction. convince others to join, build buildings and such, and have a list of different guidelines and beliefs to pick from. have a navy. send a battalion to raid a caravan.

[Dolphin]

Please use the edit button instead of triple posting.

[lowbaca]

I think I would pass on that one. If you damage your creations they wouldn't be very useful protectors.

 

If you really want to hurt them you could make and absorb them a lot, or hit them a few times and heal them, but that sounds a bit off too me.

 

well, not beat them, just have a whip you can use. and if you do it to much they go rogue

 

{oh, i didn't know about the edit until you said something]

[Lilith]

Note also the use of the quote button. It's the big black set of quote marks just to the right of the Edit button. Use it when you want to quote someone.

[ThirdParty]

Magic:

 

I several spells could be added to increase interestingness:

• (M) Stealth (decrease monster sight range to make sneaking easier)
• (M) Detect Life (another sneaking tool)
• (M) Disarm (for those times when a trap or mine is causing serious trouble; perhaps sometimes it will fail and just detonate nearby traps and mines)
• (B or M) Move Mountains
• (B or L) Force Cage (call it "Essence Cage", of course)
• (B or L) some sort of stun/slow/paralyze spell
• (L) Martyr's Shield
• (H) a recover-health-over-time spell
• (H) a convert-essence-into-energy spell

Redundant spells, like the three Heals, the two Essence Shields, the two Dazes, etc. should be eliminated; let ability level determine effectiveness.

-----

 

Shaping:

 

Rather than third-tier creations, I'd like to see an additional creation type in each category. After all, there is little difference between a Brutal Thahd and an Alpha, or between an Ur-Drayk (if there were such a thing) and a Drakon. The new creations should be geared toward making on-the-fly creation a more interesting option.

 

For example:

 

Battle: push everything up a notch and insert Ornk as the lowest level battle creation. It can attack somewhat (although it's slow: -1 to its AP), but its most valuable ability would be the power to transfer health and energy from itself to an ally. Create them in advance and have them tag along the party, acting as a meat shield (no pun intended) and being consumed if a battle turns ugly.

 

Fire: insert between Roamer and Drayk the Turret. It's immobile, which means that you'll pretty much have to reabsorb it after a battle, but it makes up for it by its powerful ranged physical attack (it's nice to be able to fire ranged attacks against things that resist magic).

 

Magic: Maybe over in the Battle section the Thahd Shade could be replaced by a Charged Thahd (it could be essentially a Thahd with +2AP, which makes it significantly different tactically from Alphas), thus making room for inserting Essence Shade in between Artila and Vlish. Essence Shade could be designed for reabsorbtion: intsead of recovering only 50% of essence on absorb, the player could recover 75% or so, which (along with the hard-to-hit trait of the shade) would make create-reabsorb-recreate at least a remotely viable battle strategy.

 

In addition to the Ornk's ability, I'd give some friendly spells to other creations as well: Ur-Drakons should have Battle Roar, Clawbugs should have Move Mountains, some type of Vlish could maybe have Heal, etc.

 

As other people have mentioned, let the environment react a bit to your party composition. For example, a particular rogue might slink off rather than attacking if it sees a Vlish in your party; if you have a Battle Alpha in your party a Shaper might start up a conversation about how to improve such things; Drayks might be pleased to see you creating more of their number; etc. Furthermore, some important figures might insist that you chain your creations up outside their camps rather than letting them enter; and some rebels might look askance at you for having creations at all. (Perhaps an option could be added alongside Absorb called "Release" that does the same thing but doesn't give the 50% essence recovery. The game could take note of whether or not you've ever absorbed a creation that had been with you long enough to gain a level, and of whether or not you'd ever released such a creation. These flags could change how willing people are to trust you. ('"The Eyes see all! You deceive the eared creatures, claiming you want creations free, but the Eyes cannot be fooled. The Eyes see many creations of your essence dying, none ever freed! Look into the Eyes and receive your judgment!" The conversation ends.')

 

-----

 

Equipment:

 

More interesting items; some equipment, for example, could improve a particular ability rather than a general trait.

 

More anvil recipes, the best ones to be pieced together by analogy from others rather than from instructions (make the player really start to figure out which reagents will bind energy, which have energy to be bound, and so on). Discourage trial-and-error: perhaps you'd need to consume a Magic Solvent to get your reagents back after a failed experiment (or to unbind an enhancement from an item so a more powerful enhancement can be used in its place). At the same time, encourage some experimentation: let the player find recipes that don't quite work, but fail in ways which suggest fixes. (Imagine this: you find a recipe for a powerful belt; but when you create it, you find that although it gives the bonuses you wanted, it weighs 50 pounds and is horribly encumbering--the recipe had an error in it. Luckily, you've learned that items can be made lighter by infusing them with a Vlish Air Sac; you apply some Magic Solvent, add Air Sac to the mix, and voila--the belt is finally a success.)

 

-----

 

Plot:

 

I want to see factions and subfactions, a chance to pick not just which side you want to be on but which individual actor you want to support (imagine Khyryk and Rahul fighting side-by-side; you'd nominally be working for both, but you'd have an eye for which one you wanted to see have the most success).

[lowbaca]

everything sounds good. except for the "redundent" spells. each healing spell is meant for a certain level. you usually start off with the minor heal. which is good until your health gets higher then 30, then it doesnt do anything {since it only heals up to what, 8?}. then heal is more powerful, for further in the game. you don't start off knowing this because it uses too much essence and magic. then group heal is for someone more then halfway through the game. when you have enough essence and such to use it. and i agree with the daze spells, i never use it, it's just a waste of space and money.

 

one thing that makes no sense, is that there aren't any natural wild animals. all the wild ones were created and abandoned/lost. were they all just killed off or something?

 

another thing is that there isn't a government. i'm pretty sure that the shapers aren't a gov.how would the world be under order if there is noone to ensure it?

[Contra]

Flying, burrowing, swimming creations. Drayks and Drakons have wings, do they not? So let them fly, and because of this they get some kind of bonus (like being harder to hit with melee weapons). Other, new creations can be allowed to fly aswell.

Some creations can move underground if you press a button, to avoid being damaged but can't damage themselves.

Swimming creations can move over water and perhaps even carry you on their backs (Like the specialized Drayk from G1)

[Vicheron]

-The option of giving creations extra abilities by spending more essense like adding poison to the clawbug's stingers or adding two extra legs on the glaahk to give it more action points.

-The ability to improve creations in labs like changing a regular fyora into a charged fyora.

-Creations that require two shaping skills to make like a clawbug/artilla hybrid.

-Items that creations can equip.

-Ridable creations.

[Dolphin]

I like the idea of shaping Serviles. The spell casting Serviles can be pretty strong, and they could equip weapons, armor, or carry things for you.

 

I would also like to see the boats improve. Avernum's boats work very well, and would be an improvement to the ones in GF3.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

Hello,

There is no indication that shapers ever die of old age or disease. The humans do, but the shapers don't age. I think of the council as ancient. Once you become more powerful you age a lot less. If you use the geneforge you live a long long time.

I bet the shaper council has been around for a long long time. They would prefer you get your power slowly because you are less likely to be rash and youthful with it. Also it allows them to keep tabs on everybody. Think of a level 80 character in an unaging body... Thus they could make super powerful creations by boosting the stats of their critters to insane levels. There would be no need for drakes, etc.

I bet a single council member could match three or four geneforged ur-drakons in a stand up fight. Having 500 years of experience under your belt heps.

Another thought on how there could be a balanced outcome would be the introduction of a world changing character. A backstory idea. About 25 years ago, a shaper did something absolutely forbidden. She shaped a human being from essence, then fell in love. The shaper council found out. They caught her and executed her, but her husband the essence creation escaped with the perfect child they had shaped.

The created one sought out a reclusive rogue shaper on the isles where he was raised in a hidden community. He has decided to go out into the world.

Basically you have the ultimate shaper a combination of creation/shaper.

[mok]

Quote:

Originally written by I'll Steal Your Toast:
There is no indication that shapers ever die of old age or disease.

Actually, doesn't Rahul say something towards the end about how his days are coming to an end but yours are just beginning? It doesn't sound like he's dying or anything but it did sound like retirement wasn't too far around the corner.

Anyone else remember this?

[Vicheron]

I think that having the character start the game as a fully trained Shaper/Guardian/Agent should be seriously considered. A lot of big things are going to be happening and the whole weak guy that no one's heard of coming out of nowhere to become a powerful warrior and saving the world thing is getting old.

[Delicious Vlish]

The ability to learn forbidden magic.

 

Like Necromancy.

 

Damnit, I want a Shaper with a loyal army of shades!

[Hectonkhyres]

This probably wouldn't work, but I really want some input in any case. Any comment at all.

 

I would like to see a nonshaped creation. Imagine a neglected geneforge left in some secluded spot for centuries. The shapers wiped out the heritics and all their creations, leaving nobody to use it. Only automated machinery and some machine golems are left to take care of it.

 

Over time, its strange energies mutate local plant and animal life in semi-random and unpredictable ways. Most that was touched died... but some lived on. Darwinism kicks in at an accelerated rate.

 

Thick mats of fiberous green algae coat rocks. Strange, but eerily beautiful plants decorate the landscape. Animals and fish that have never been seen by human eyes abound in truely alien forms. But things change too fast for there to be any real balance of nature. It is a violent and dangerous landscape.

 

Consuming the abandoned heretic citadel, and the geneforge itself, is the strangest lifeform of all. Evolved out of simple fungi and bacteria that grew too close to the forge (symbiotic life forms that make up essence pools), it is like a massive coral reef. Gradually, it gained an alien type of sapience and learned to shape new organisms... but not in the same way as the shapers.

 

It produces essence bearers. Delicate, glassine creatures with a transparant bulb or cup shaped organ on their backs. These transport the essence necessary to keep its component creations alive. Some are modified to carry acid, making them dangerous enemies.

 

It produces dopplegangers. These are stupid creatures made in human form. Decent spies or deadly assassins. In battle, they are anything but human.

 

It produces brutes. These are thaal or battle alpha analogues. They do the heavy lifting as well as being shock troops. These muscled giants are pale and have an unformed appearance, not even having eyelids, noses, or mouths.

 

It has a thousand other things it can make... and it will only learn from watching shapers in action.

 

Shapers find this area and decide to study it... just as it studies them. They do not know its origins, having forgotten the battle that once took place here. Several parties eventually come to play against each other. Survivors of the heretics, modern rebels, some of the smarter rogues, the shapers themselves, this creature... and you.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

Here is an idea. You have the cross breed shaper/creation living in an awakened community on one of the islands. He quietly absorbs their philosophy, then he twists it in a maddening way. He decides that it is his duty to bring his philosophy to the masses. He produces an insane but convincing text which starts spreading out to the shaper and drakon lands. Then he starts building a militant philosophy that is a mix of shaper and human. Those who shape at the top-- drakons and humans, those who fight, use magic, and make things in the middle, and everyone else servile and human as slaves. He starts recruiting and it spreads quickly...

[Vicheron]

It would be cool if G4 had the original creatures that the creations were based on. We know from G1 that the serviles and fyora were once actual species that evolved on their own and were enslaved by the Shapers’ ancestors so it’s reasonable to assume that many if not all of the other creations were also based on species that evolved on their own and it is possible that some of those creatures escaped enslavement and still exist somewhere. For all we know, there could be an entire Drayk empire out there somewhere.

[Hectonkhyres]

A few more of the dirty little secrets that the shapers have been hiding... of have just plain forgotten. Things that were put in motion with the very founding of the science of shaping.

 

In the course of the plot, you should find instructions on how to manufacture forgotten things. Creations which were left as footnotes on somebody's recordbook but either dropped out of everyday use, were banned, or never left prototype stage.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

I would like to be able to build a golem or fix a broken automaton so it could be one of the creations that joins my character. Iron clawbug, flaming golem, etc. Whatever happened to the drakon golem. Somewhere out there, an awakened servile is planning his revenge and building a mechanized army... Reaper batons, iron clawbugs, drakon golems, etc.

[lowbaca]

i agree, it would be nice to make a golem.

 

i still think you should start off as a nobody. if you think about it, most rpg's are like this.[zelda,final fantasy, and so on]

 

but through out the game you can increase in rank and have people join, or give orders to attack or something.

 

and fighting in a huge battle would be sweet. like fighting side by side with 50 other shapers against an army of drayks.[remember in g2, where you got a quest from a guy in medab to eradicate an army of serviles and battle alphas, and you fought 5 or 6 serviles from medab, that was cool].

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

Hmm, another thing I would like would be reintroducing the Sholai. An idea comes to mind -- the awakened are close to Sholai lands right now. They get in conflict with the Sholai and end up pulling a conquistador type maneuver on them-- a small heavily armed group of serviles attacks a local kingdom and annexes the capital. They recruit mercenaries and press gang people into an awakened army... preparing to return to shaper lands... They attack not because they want to conquer but because they are threatened by the ruler.

[Contra]

I would not be surprised if the Sholai appear in the next game as allies to your character or atleast appearing more like good guys (a' la Awakened) than the bad ones.

 

This idea with the geneforge evolving to be a sentinent being is fun, too bad a few games have done things like that before.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

Another idea if the Sholai appear. The Sholai have tried to suppress their own form of Shaper-- they are terrified of them. Change Shaper to shapeshifter.

[Contra]

New weapons will be needed, of course. New spells, new creations.

All and all, this game needs a whole new set of things to combine and work with the old, not just a few tweaks to the allready existing objects.

 

If we recieved like three new weapon types I would be delighted.

[Itsuart, the altered]

What do YOU want to see in G4?

 

I want see ocean around Terrestia full of Shapers enemies blood.

I want see how shapres will slowly tear to small pieces stupid Ghaldrig.

I want see that Council reveal Shaper's ancestors abaility to shape any living thing from distant(as they do in GF1)

I want see more big and ugly battles.

Summary:

I want see total eradication of every non-loyal being, everyone who dared to go aginst Shapers or even think about it

[Balint]

More extensive characterization from important NPCs (merchants, captains, trainers, etc).

 

More factions/guilds, and the ability to choose only one or two out of group, with no ability to change later.

 

Important NPCs should change their responses to reflect changing conditions, particularly as your fame grows and events take place.

[Worst_enemy]

I'd Like to have more options in choosing my characters apperance other than the color of their clothing. Then again- it would be confusing if you could make shapers look like anything. Then you wouldn't be able to tell who was a shaper and who wasn't by their apperance.

[Inebrianus]

How about class-specific creations?

 

For example,

 

shaper: shaping skills that alters / modifies existing, natural creatures(provided there are a lot of natural creatures in G4), making them vicious killing machines. / or the power to combine existing creatures to make something more powerful (a la impossible creatures)

 

guardian: creations that can be combined with armor, sword, helmet... , making the weapon/armor better, grants special abilities, but which slowly drains your essence or health. also, as someone said earlier in this pole, something that can be ridden.

 

scout(...or whatever the last class is called): small, incredibly fast and mindless creations that follows you everywhere and make you invisible / faster / venomous / submersible / gives special attack option.

 

Also, what if creations can be upgraded as they level up? If fyora's level goes over 10, then it becomes flamora(I know the name sounds stupid...) which is much bigger than fyora, can fly, can't be attacked by melee creations, can cast area-effect fire magic spells, etc.

[Harlequin]

I want sub-factions. On the shaper side, you could have the agents guild, the item crafters guild ect. On the rebal side there could be the cultests, the army of free serviles, the shaping sub faction ect. This would keep with the nice simplicity of the 2 sides battleing it out, but with more depth.

[Lord Breakfast]

Sub-factions would be cool, so if you join the rebels, for example, you dont have to be a power hungry guy who wants to destroy the world, perhaps there could be characters within each faction you could allign with and to their ideologies.

 

Sometimes in G3 it is annoying having to be either authoritarian oppressive loyalist or authoritarian oppressive freedom fighters, it's like the choice between facists and communists. Would be nice to have a more moderate option in the form of sub factions.

[BigBob]

Quote:

Originally written by Le Martyre de la Terreur:
Finally! Then we won't have dialogue that consists of "press 1 for Shapers, 2 for Rogues, 3 for Medium"?

That's what started to bother me the most...

All the dialogs had the 'i like shapers' or the 'i like rebels'.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

It would be good to have more than two factions. Shapers, Serviles, and Sholai. Adding in subfactions would be cool as well. I think the Sholai are in this game. I think the Sholai are the mages who are trying to gain shaper knowledge in code. I also think there is a Sholai Lord Rahul's keep. In addition, I have a feeling that some of the tradespeople may be functioning as sholai infiltrators. It would be cool to see some of the mages and tradespeople turn out to be Sholai infiltrators in Geneforge 4.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

The ability to forge swords.

[Kalnnas]

I have a bevy of ideas. Probably none of them will see the light of day, but it's worth a shot.

 

A new branch of magic skills: Dark Magic

 

- Curse your target.

- Drain Life from your target and use it to heal yourself. I see it as a direct-damage spell, but it could become a vampiric enchantment of some sort instead.

- Slow your target down. Useful against those speedy clawbugs.

- Mass Curse.

- Mass Drain -- not only does it heal you, it heals your allies, too! And it drains from all enemies in sight. Very essence-intensive, though.

- You can be Clad in Shadows, making you harder for enemies to see and allowing you to be stealthy. Also makes it harder for enemies to hit you. And it even has its own (death metal) theme song!

- Kill is moved here from Battle Magic, being a death spell after all.

- Mass Slow. A powerful spell with many tactical uses. But very expensive.

 

To replace Kill on the Battle Magic roster, perhaps something like Blizzard or Lightning.

 

The ability to light enemies on fire (with the Flaming Sword, Aura of Flame, or some other such thing) and have them take fire damage periodically. But remember, you can be on fire, too. Basically, poison with a different name.

 

Expanded Item Forging. I loved this idea and thought it was a very nice addition to the game. Perhaps, though, some items could be blessable more than once, through the use of a rare and special tincture. Only really for items the player is pretty sure he's going to be keeping.

 

Having certain (N)PCs in the party could affect things outside of combat -- e.g. a loyalist NPC in a rebel camp starts making people very unfriendly towards you. Or taking a rebel character to that same camp gets him recognized by (and talked to by) someone in the camp that normally wouldn't give you the time of day, thus conferring bonuses of some sort (cheaper services perhaps, or insider info).

 

Inventories (or at least equipment sheets) for humanoid party members (humans and serviles).

 

A Crafting skill tucked under Leadership and Mechanics.

 

With metal bars, the player could be able to make non-magical items of their choice (increasing in quality proportional to the Crafting skill). "I'm not the most powerful person, but I can make damn good armor and weapons for myself! So there!"

 

If your skills in various fields are high enough, some NPCs might want to learn from you. Of course, you'll get cash or something in return, but you'll also draw the ire of the Shapers for selling restricted knowledge to outsiders...

[Travers]

I liked that GF3 brought down the number of factions to two: I like to get the majority of a game in one play through - as I'm sure most casual gamers do too. Also, I think Jeff created GF3 this way because it is simply too much more work. By adding factions linearly, you would have to add dialogue options exponentially: probably okay for two or three though. But GF2 was a mess, IMO. Also, curse magic I agree would be interesting. Although it might seem too much like necromancy, which we learn is uber-forbidden

[Contra]

That is why having the option to learn Necromancy would be intresting.

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

It would be cool if there was instead of a third or fourth faction-- the option of being insanely power mad and blood thirsty, basically self centeredly evil and doing what you think is in your best interest and not the factions. The idea would be to make moves which would ultimately put your character in control by building alliances. You would end up with your own loyal base of shapers and creations and kill everyone else.

[Slp006]

I've always been a bit disappointed with the GF games in that the creations are set in stone. I'd like to have the opportunity to make an Ur-Drakon with Eyebeast eye-stalks for eyes, personally. I know of a game called Impossible Creatures that lets you mess with creatures in that kind of fashion, so it's been done before.

[Contra]

I have to repeat myself: Since noone that produces this game even reads what we have to say, what does it matter? Someone mentioned that the post is here to "root out" the bad suggestions from being emailed to Jeff, but Jeff most likely won't read any mal coming from us anyway.

[Lilith]

Jeff has to read email -- he gets quite a few registrations that way, for one thing. Whether or not he takes suggestions into account, of course, is another matter entirely.

[Travers]

Quote:

Originally written by Contra:
That is why having the option to learn Necromancy would be intresting.

I agree that it would be interesting, but I think that it might take away from the whole story arch too much. I mean, there's no logical reason why either the shapers or the rebels would dabble in it: they both see strength in shaping, which is kinda like the opposite of necromancy. Unless Jeff considered making undead drakon lords or something (which is probably a bad idea ).

So that's why I think curse magic is good, but NOT necromancy. I.e., if curse magic was actually already a part of the entire shaper magic repetoire, but had just never been implemented in earlier games.

(Bah, thats some confusing verb tenses )

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Travers:
I agree that it would be interesting, but I think that it might take away from the whole story arch too much. I mean, there's no logical reason why either the shapers or the rebels would dabble in it: they both see strength in shaping, which is kinda like the opposite of necromancy.

Well, in Geneforge 1 we learn that the Shapers' ancestors turned themselves into shades to gain power and extend their lives. It didn't work so well for them, though.

[Student of Trinity]

Suddenly I realize that the eventual Geneforge editor must be called "Shades of Geneforge".

[Contra]

Why not "Scales of Gray"?

[Fyora Toast With Roamer Butter]

Something which could be an interesting way to modify creations would be to put runes on them. We have runed serviles and runed thads. It would be interesting if you could spend essence to put various runes on the serviles, items, or yourself to give them special effects-- hasted, blessed, healing, etc. Or even your own character. Runes would correspond with the fields of magic and would be a special kind of Sholai magic.

[Contra]

Sounds funky enough. Kinda like a new special abillity called "Runecraft" which allows you to do diffrent kind of runes on creations, or weapons, or even the ground.

 

You have to admitt that it is a good idea. Shapers are in no way unfamiliar with magic runes, so why not allow the character to learn how to use them?

[neophyte]

I would like there to be a spell like essence orbs, but instead shooting the spell searer several times, thats a kind of spell that I'd like to have, I wouldn't mind playing as a character other than shapers but that seems complicated, I wouldn't mind being able to allow creations carry inventory, cause it seems wierd that the creator is the pack mule, why can't some thad be the pack mule, and if he dies the inventory doesn't disappear, this'll also be good, because something you can't carry an item since you inventory is full.

[CFG]

Things I'd like in GF4:

 

1) Ability to carry more individual items.

2) Charms not be counted individually in pack - they could be added to a special necklace or bracelet.

3) Ability to minimize screen.

4) Completed quests left on list but checked off, so you know what you've done as well as what still remains.

5) When saving the game, ability to edit individual letters in the name or select the whole name and replace it instead of having to backspace/delete each letter.

6) Acquisition of (or ability to make) really heavy duty equipment BEFORE final encounters (getting something great off the last guy you kill, so to speak, isn't much use).

7) Easily accessible "storage locker" to keep items in that you don't want to carry but might need to use without travellling a far distance to get them.

8) Differentiation in cannisters, i.e. labelled with contents or colour coded to show improved spell stats, improved fighting stats, or improved shaping so you can tell at a glance whether you want to use it or not.

9) Ability to keep unlimited $$.

 

I thought that big improvements in GF3 were that stores had unlimited $$ when selling, and that entering friendly areas healed and rested.