What do YOU want to see in G4?

[Hawk King]

Quote:

Originally written by Contra:
Three-creation limit? Don't you mean seven?

What he means is three types of creation you cannot make A (admittedly spelled wrong) fyora artila croyora dryak thahd battle alpha and cyrodrayk. After the fyora artila croyora it would say something like no more than three creation types there you go.

[Contra]

Someone transelate, that post was beyond me.

[tridash]

you can only have three types of creation in your party at any one time

[shell]

Just try it out, Contra, make a fyora, a roamer, and an artila and then try and make a vlish. It's impossible to do, but there's no good reason for it. If I want to roleplay a shaper who makes seven different creation types, then I should be able to.

[Beamup]

My #1 wish would be for Jeff to expand the utility of creations beyond combat. Some ideas/examples (some have been mentioned by others already):

 

- A 'packbeast' creation to carry your gear

- A mount to allow you to move faster

- A creation that heals you/other creations

- A mechanic creation, that would have its own Mechanics skill

- A scout: fast, cheap, can see farther than normal

- Shaping of equipment: make your own baton or Living Tools, for example.

 

Oh, and Shell, I'd bet that there's a mechanical reason for it. Most likely related to how the game data is organized in memory. It's not like Jeff woke up one day and said, "hey, I'll limit them to three creation types!" He wouldn't do it without a reason.

[Suspicious Vlish]

I would like to see a 'prequel' to Geneforge 1. Perhaps from Trajkov's perspective...

[Contra]

I would like to see a game not focused on the Geneforge. Sick of the Geneforge, and frankly rather sick of canisters aswell. Give us something new.

[Student of Trinity]

But call it 'Geneforge IV' just to suck in the customers?

[Contra]

Yes, or something similar. The game is about Shapers, their creations and world views, not necessarily the Geneforge and canisters.

 

There are endless posibillity for plots here.

[tridash]

Is it going to be gene-altering drinks next

 

Judging by the ending, there are probably going to be new, but altered by the standard magic method, creations

[MrRoivas]

In G1 there were hints that the shapers were not the first people to do it. Also, there is evidence that serviles were not created, but enslaved by the shapers. I think these concepts should be explored more.

[Student of Trinity]

There are Shapers and then there are Shapers. That is, there are foot-soldier Shapers like Erika, stuck in the Main Army Camp, junior executives like Diwaniya, and mighty lords like Rahul -- who actually has the title 'Lord'.

 

Just how does Shaper society organize itself? What does it take to get onto the Shaper Council? Is the system a meritocracy, or is it an aristocracy of some sort? I wouldn't be at all surprised if the actual rulers of Shaper society had shaped themselves into superiority, and then concealed this violation of taboo from the masses of lesser Shapers.

 

This kind of corruption at the top of Shaper society might go a long way to explaining why so many Shapers seem to go off the deep end, doing reckless things in pursuit of personal power.

 

It might also open up an interesting new kind of factional conflict: honest Shapers versus corrupt elite Shapers. The elite Shapers would actually turn out to have far more in common with their Drakon enemies than they could ever afford to admit. And the 'honest' rank-and-file Shapers in turn would have some common ground with the ordinary humans and serviles who just want to throw off the unnatural Shaper yoke.

[Suspicious Vlish]

An all out war between Drayks and Drakkons would sure be interesting. Drayks seem to have quite a bit of resentment towards Drakkons.

 

Another possible scenario I would love to see is a bloodthirsty race from across the sea, who are proficient technologically (guns, cannon, golems) invading. Perhaps they use 'twisted' magick relying on death.

 

For the first time, Shapers and serviles would have to unite to fight a common foe. There would be division in the Shaper council on whether to use canisters, and arm serviles.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

That's what i was talking about with the minotaurs.

[Contra]

Yes. thank you SoT, this is what i wanted to hear from someone. The Shapers are a large organisation strentching across two large continents. Corruption is almost ensured, since Shapers are nothing but human.

 

Cut the Geneforge storyline and go for the Shaper-vs-Shaper storyline.

 

By the way, what "evidence" is there for Servile enslavement?

[Taeweil]

You know what i'd like to see?

Forgive me if it's been mentioned in this topic before...

 

I'd like to see your character with the ability to create some unique creations. Creations that show you are a true prodigy. Creations that when you walk into a town, shaper or otherwise, people start gaping in awe.

 

Or you're the apprentice of a Shaped Shaper, and due to an erratic experiment, you get thrown into a proto-geneforge. Instead of dying, you wake up a half-drayk with your master dead or insane near you.

 

With this transformation, maybe the canisters wont make you insane like they do normal Shapers, or maybe you unlock abilities as you get level up and focus your energies into 'remembering' what secrets your cells hold.

 

I hope my post makes sense..

[Student of Trinity]

There are two basic directions this kind of discussion can take. We can go 'clear blue sky', dreaming up anything that appeals to us. If there is ever a 'Blades of Geneforge' (though I sure hope they don't call it that), that could be great. Or we can keep in mind that Jeff still has to make a living, so he can't do anything that won't be reasonably commercial over an audience with a wide range of ages.

 

On the whole, I don't think it would be commercially viable for Spiderweb to give up too much continuity with the geneforge series. The stock elements of canisters and geneforges and the various combinations of creatures are popular and expected. If I were in Jeff's shoes, I'd be thinking that if I were going to risk cutting out such basic elements, I might as well give myself the fun of a completely blank canvas, and do something completely different from Geneforge in every way. So, I don't think really basic changes in the games are plausible for Geneforge IV.

 

We can of course hope to see the elements altered and combined in surprising ways that develop new themes. The many technical innovations that are the main advance of G3 open up a lot of possibilities.

 

So my vote would be to put ideas like minotaurs and 'no geneforge' into a thread on 'what I would do with Blades of Geneforge', and leave 'what do you want in G4' for things that Jeff can more easily afford to do in his commercial product.

[Slawbug]

I'm not exactly a fan of the minotaur idea, SoT, but it's not much more far-fetched than the Vahnatai were in Exile II — and they were a huge hit. Similarly, the change from subterranean to surface in the next game was extremely drastic, yet Exile III was even more popular than its predecessors.

 

If Jeff wanted to get rid of the canisters, I'm sure he's capable of recombining (hee hee) the things about them that people like — the 'free' stat boosting, the corruption, the decisions — in some other commercially viable way.

[Student of Trinity]

Hmmm. Maybe you're right. I just happen to like the geneforges, and the canisters. But maybe some variety. How about multicolored canisters, that differ in some interesting ways that I can't think of at all right now?

[ShadeOfWar]

How about adding some possibility of doing the creation experimenting yourself? I mean, you get to "bombard some creations with energy" and then you might get all sorts of retarded creatures but could also get something new and powerful.

 

So there would also be certain abilities that certain types of energy would give.

So you could get Pyroroamers that daze nearby enemies, maybe a creation that casts some kind of spells, and all sorts of stuff, for example all the twisted creations you meet from time to time.

Static Thahds and Unstable Drakons are cool

 

And then you should record the way you did the experiment in case of a success, so you could be able to make more of them later.

[Contra]

I always hated the Vahnatai.

 

Well, we can "bombard with energy". It is how we alter their stats. If you want to make an entire new creation then you must take the time to do Shaper research, have a Shaper labaratory and equipment. Research takes time, so much time that it would be utterly pointless to do it in a game, since whatever you want to prevent or help has allready died or succeded before you can bring up an even remotely succesfull creation.

[Taeweil]

Quote:

Originally written by Contra:
I always hated the Vahnatai.

Well, we can "bombard with energy". It is how we alter their stats. If you want to make an entire new creation then you must take the time to do Shaper research, have a Shaper labaratory and equipment. Research takes time, so much time that it would be utterly pointless to do it in a game, since whatever you want to prevent or help has allready died or succeded before you can bring up an even remotely succesfull creation.

Why should it take months or years to make an entire new creation?

According to GF1 there are a ton of lost Shaping methods that people find now and again. Why cant a character find a lost laboratory with a ton of notes/canisters that help them perfect 'new' creations?

As a matter of fact, that would be pretty cool.

[Lilith]

From what I recall of Jeff Vogel's very early plans for a game that sounded vaguely like Geneforge (I believe he mentioned an idea for a game where the player could create monsters even before the release of Avernum 1), it seems as if it may even have been Jeff's original intention to allow a much greater degree of fluidity in the sorts of creations that could be made.

[Contra]

If you read the explanation on how Shaping takes place (Bombard, see if there are any results [which there probably are no beneficial ones], have it gone through the beurocratic machinery of the Shapers, research if it could be dangerous..Etc) you realise how much time and how hard it would be for a mere apprentice or someone with little or no Shaping skill from the begining make an entierly new creation.

 

True, for Rebels it would be easier, for they can skip the last few steps and just see if the creation have evolved beneficial or not, but that step is the major one, the one that takes up most of the time.

[Ald]

Tell me, does anyone that is responsible for development read the forum, or should I send them email with the ideas?

 

1. Interface

Make more use of "Enter" key.

Scroll the screen with right mouse button.

 

2. Plot.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts completely. Shapers and the rogues are equal powers. The protagonist again is forced to choose between them only to find that there is no longer a difference: Shapers secretly negotiate with rogues to avoid war and direct confronation, to make drayks turn against drakons, while rogues treat serviles and each other just like shapers do

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Ald:
Tell me, does anyone that is responsible for development read the forum, or should I send them email with the ideas?

They don't. Send email if you want. Interface ideas have a better chance of being listened to than plot ideas, but in general Jeff Vogel does his own thing anyway.

Quote:

Scroll the screen with right mouse button.

Probably not going to happen -- Jeff designs on a Mac, Mac users make up half his audience, and most Mac users are still using a one-button mouse.

[Contra]

If noone reads and noone cares, why this topic?

[Ald]

The topic is probably to filter out the worst suggestions. No I won't send request to add second mouse button scroll option....

 

But how come Mac only supports only one mouse button? Isn't it a lot more convinient to have four mouse buttons plus a wheel?

Come to think of it, I would like to have two wheels and three buttons...

[Contra]

There IS a mac-mouse with several buttons, but it is old, clumsy and does not work with todays computers.

[tridash]

something like item enhancements but for creations would be good.

[Travers]

I want to see:

 

-Dialogue/banter interaction with companions, and possibly romance

 

-Ability to set gender, and have people actually call you by name, instead of "Shaper"

 

-Support for higher resolutions

 

-More creations. Not necessarily more powerful, but more variety.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Ald:
But how come Mac only supports only one mouse button? Isn't it a lot more convinient to have four mouse buttons plus a wheel?

Nowadays you can usually plug any multi-button USB mouse into a Mac and have it more or less work. But since the Mac OS is designed around a single-button mouse, most people don't really have any reason to do so.

[shell]

Quote:

Originally written by Thuryl:

Quote:

Originally written by Ald:
But how come Mac only supports only one mouse button? Isn't it a lot more convinient to have four mouse buttons plus a wheel?

Nowadays you can usually plug any multi-button USB mouse into a Mac and have it more or less work. But since the Mac OS is designed around a single-button mouse, most people don't really have any reason to do so.

ctrl + click acts as the more-or-less equivalent of right click, although I only use it once every 2-3 weeks, so it's not much of an issue. No Mac users wants Jeff to mess with right-clicking; it would be a pain. I might have to go out and buy a two-button mouse just to play a game.

[YamiNoRyuu]

I kinda like the idea of romance...hehehe....

 

Some new creations would be nice too. i'm getting kind of bored of the low number of creations you can make. We need something new people!

[Student of Trinity]

Ah, romance in Geneforge IV. Two young creations meet in the steaming swamps and fall in love. The cruel Shapers who control them forbid their union, on the senseless grounds that a mating of Submission Vlish and Rabid Roamer could bring no good. Plot complications build, alarums and excursions, and in the fifth act everybody gets re-absorbed.

[Ald]

Bravo!

 

Cmon, we are deciding the direction the world will take in the near future in G2 and G3. Probably the same in G4. A Shaper (with capital letter), the Chosen One understands, controls and directs his feelings.

[lowbaca]

1-No minotaurs, please {it's a sci-fi game; not mid-evil}

 

and no more plot ideas; jeff probably already has his mind made up for the next 2 already;

 

you remember in G2, if you play a shaper, shanti teaches you how to make an artila. there is actually hand gestures and movements to it. how about, if you have to do, like a keyboard combo start- 1 2gh yif -end; and if you do it wrong you have a retard on your hands

 

and make the sex for the classes interchangeable?

 

the only thing i hate is only making 4 different creations

 

and you can only wear one ring- i read many people complain about it, but the magic only works if you wear one, they'll cancel each other out.

 

and the graphics are fine, i can't have the graphics to great or the game will be all choppy.

 

even G3 is a little choppy.

 

maybe have the stuff you wear actually visible? i dont know.

 

and creating serviles would be cool

[mok]

Quote:

Originally written by lowbaca:
the only thing i hate is only making 4 different creations

hmm... I've seen this sort of thing stated before (saw it as a 3 somewhere). I'm able to have 5 different creations with my shaper (or 4 + alwan). Does this have to do with intelligence of the character or the level, or are people just miscounting when they post?

[Dolphin]

You are allowed to have six different creatures in your group, including you and Greta/Alwan. You can either have four different creations and take Alwan or Greta, or you can have five different creations and not take Alwan or Greta.

[lowbaca]

4 different typescreations

 

but can make 7 creation

 

alwan and greta count as 2 types of creations

 

ex; alwan and greta, fyora and artila. after that, can only create more fyoras and artilas.

[Dolphin]

That's what I said. Dose what I say take too much processing or something?

[lowbaca]

yeah

[Dolphin]

Well the translation of what I wrote:

 

When you have made too many different types of creations the game says “You can only have at most six types of creations in your group.”

 

The game counts you as one of your creations.

 

Alwan and Greta are each a creation, and each will fill a slot.

 

So, if you do not have Alwan or Greta, you can make up too five different types (you can of course have multiples of the same)

 

If you have one of the two (Alwan or Greta) you can make five different types of creations.

 

If you have both Alwan and Greta you can make up to four different types of creations.

[abbaon]

I want the central question of the game to be something other than "How should Shapers treat their retarded midget servants?" Because I don't ****ing care.

[Kennedy]

Serviles with the ability to shape would be cool. I could imagine rebels using the geneforge to change serviles to give them that ability and the abilty to use canisters. The player could also possibly be a hybrid offspring of a servile/human/shaper (one pair of the 3) that fell in love and had a child. New creations once you get your skill in the creature up to 5 are a must. I want my battle gamma!

 

Instead of GIFTS there can be a hidden dungeon full of talking ornks! Or an insane servant mind that wishes to take over the world! or can at least leave its tray and walk around some, able to eat stuff other than the protien goop that they normaly eat.

[Contra]

Perhaps less madness? Someone with the abillity to shape that actually realizes that if they continue to alter themsleves and the world then the **** will hit the fan, as it obviously allready has.

[Vicheron]

-Dual wielding.

-Two handed weapons like halberds and maybe a thorn bazooka.

-A new magic craft skill, which lets you build different types of golems. A skill that should be availible to all three characters and easier to acquire than shaping but golems should be expensive to build, costing gold and resources, they would be unable to gain levels but you can upgrade them by investing more resources and they can't heal on their own unless they have been upgraded with that function but can be repaired with living tools.

-Shaper/guardian/agent only items.

-Pack mules.

-An apprentice of your own.

-New Agent graphics.

-Changes in your appearance based on your actions, for example you should get an insignia on your clothes based on the faction you join and you begin to glow if you use lots of canisters.

[Slawbug]

A thorn bazooka.

That's AWESOME. Heh.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

In G3 Akari said that ghaldring sent out more drakons than just himself to make geneforges. Couldn't another drakon get that close to making a GF.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

In G1 a servile named heustess said that shapers attacked his kind. That means that Shapers didn't discover how to make serviles but enslaved them and studied them so they could make more.