Poll with a poll: survivors

[Student of Trinity]

Who do you expect to see in G3?

[Toenail Returns]

I expect to see a lot of new stuff.

 

*crickets come in a'chirpin*

[bogus standard candidate]

Besides the darn little kid (which was funny, and Geneforge is in short supply of kids, Avernum had a few here and there ), I thought the new group of serviles is an interesting option.

 

What kind could we see now?

 

The basic three in G1/G2 covered three basic responses towards authority.

 

What about a conspirator kind of Servile group? I guess what I have in mind is a Servile group that is similar to the Bizantines after they returned from exile in the 13th century. This could be the group that the balloon creature that we discussed in another thread.

 

Hmmm. Or maybe not.

 

I'd like to see Smart Ornks. Talking, trading, conniving Ornks. We fought some rather tough ones in G1. I'd like to see a city of them.

[Student of Trinity]

What 13th century Byzantines returning from exile? Do you mean the period between 1261 and 1453, when the Paleologi dynasty had recovered control of Constantinople from the western crusaders, but remained precariously poised between the rival Byzantine fragment of Trebizond, the crusaders' rump Latin Empire, and the looming Ottoman Turks?

 

If so, um, cool. I know nothing about this period. Did the Paeleologi survive by famously brilliant conspiracy?

[bogus standard candidate]

That's precisely what I meant, Trinity. I was indeed referring to how they survived basically using diplomacy and pitching rival Ottoman princes against each other as well as ingratiating with different courts in Europe to ensure their survival.

 

If I'm not mistaken and my memory doesn't fail me, they pretty much invented the "modern idea" (or at least its first germination) of diplomacy, and the term "Byzantine" refers, again if I'm not mistaken, to their often convoluted dealings.

 

It all ended in 1453, though.

 

(Apropos of nothing: There's a very cool book called Justinian by H. N. Turtletaub aka Harry Turtledove. He also has the series of Hellenistic Seafaring Adventure which are cool. There's also, Justinian: Last Roman Emperor by G.P Baker which is good. And, finally, a cool book about the Fourth Crusade (my favorite of them all, for many reasons) by Thomas Madden and Donald Queller. I'm biased because Dr. Madden was a professor of mine and I remember his Byzantine class as one of the high points in my education. I actually cried when we saw the fall of Constantinople, first and only time I've done it in a class. Signing off, Romantic Byzantine Fan.)

[Student of Trinity]

The prolific Harry T. also wrote the 'Krispos of Videssos' trilogy, which has a very nice 'alternate Byzantium' setting. As far as I can tell the only real difference he made was to change the names, and (ironically) to replace Orthodox Christianity with a dualistic religion very much like the contemporary Persian Zoroastrianism. At least, he replaces the belief system; the church organization is classic Byzantine Caesaropapism, as far as I can tell. Turtledove's alternative Persians, however, do not become Christian, but something else which is never detailed much.

 

In my opinion The Guns of the South is Turtledove's masterpiece, and by far the best 'time travelers change the past' novel I've every found. Too bad it seems to have been the trigger for him to start putting out a new book every six weeks and go all blah.

[bogus standard candidate]

"Krispos of Videssos" trilogy is fantastic, among my favorites of his books. I had mixed feelings towards Guns of the South. I think partly because I read it sandwhiched between two other similar, if slightly, novels. One by Harry Harrison and the other by S.M. Stirling. The in GoS of the time machine, how it was used and by whom, I liked (it gave me a pulp feeling, or saturday matinee) but the story itself bored me, I got tired of the characters too fast. But as I said I think it was from too much alternate history books at once.

 

On the other hand, I read the first book of the Darkness series and enjoy it. However, I'm a little weary because so far there seem to be. . . five or six books. I sometimes worry when a writer writes too much. So far the ones I've enjoyed more from him have been the ones with a Byzantium flavor, but that's also because I'm biased towards the subject.

 

There's a trilogy by Harry Harrison that I enjoyed quite a bit--well, I had some problems with the third book, but that's another story. It was written by him and John Holm (who, btw, ghost wrote "West of Eden" since Harrison's health didn't allow him to do so) called "the Hammer and the Cross" trilogy. The agent that produces this shift in history is a letter that never arrives. The first book is almost told in seriealized manner as the main character goes up in social/political ranks. The second one is wonderful "tour" through Scandinavia borrowing from many classic poems. The third takes place in Iberia.

[Actaeon]

You know, if we are going to keep ending up in book discussions, then we should either make a topic for it or go to another site. I thought computer game addicts were supposed to be to busy for everything else. (Like reading a series they consider to long just because each book has eight hundred pages. The Wheel of Time will eventually reach a conclusion. I think.)