Anyone tried this?

[Suspicious Vlish]

Has any tried making an agent whose specializes in mental magic, and summons creations? Darn powerful, which is rather surprising, since an agent's shaping skills are weak.

[Oni of Chaos]

Interesting. What creations do you have?

[Student of Trinity]

Does specializing in mental magic mean using Strong Daze a lot? If so, it isn't really surprising that she's powerful. A baby could clear Inner Gazak-Uss with Strong Daze and a sharp rattle. But if you're actually getting good mileage out of Terror and Dominate, I'd like to hear more. I've never found any use for those spells.

[Suspicious Vlish]

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Interesting. What creations do you have?

Vlish, Glaahk and Drayks are my pets. Having even one Glaahk or Drayk by your side is a huge advantage.

I also use eyebeasts, and occasionally a Drakkon (since I didn't invest in Battle Creations, so Drakkon is my heavy melee).

While you may be weak in essence, remember that you are going to invest in intelligence anyway (since you're casting spells), so it will even out.

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Does specializing in mental magic mean using Strong Daze a lot?

Well, actually, I don't use Strong Daze that much. Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful, useful spell, but I usually can kill mobs pretty quick without it (and I'm playing on torment.)

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But if you're actually getting good mileage out of Terror and Dominate, I'd like to hear more. I've never found any use for those spells.

EXCELLENT SPELLS.
They are the bones of my Agent. Until she buys these spells she is weak

Terror will make the strongest of opponents wet their pants. Especially useful against eyebeasts. Scare them, then kill them.

Dominate is also wonderful. Remember that in torment, enemies can hit pretty hard. Turn them to your side, and you have a 'battle spell'.

I have an amusing story regarding just how powerful and useful Dominate is. I was fighting the third Taker leader.. Eass, I think (the strongest Drakkon, who uses the Geneforge). Remember how next to him is a mega-Rotgroth? I dominated it.

It hit Eass. Double Strike. Roughly 430 damage for each strike (over 800 damage). Easss drops to the ground like a sack of ****. Game over, Geneforge destroyed, I become an uber-God.

I think I set a record for how much damage can be 'dealt' by an agent (not even guardians can deal damage in the 800's), and how quickly I killed that pain in the ass Drakkon.

A bonus of staying out of melee is being able to wear lighter armour (I wear armour which enhances spellcraft). In a way, you don't lose out on too many skill points, since you aren't spending them on quick action/strength/melee.

[Student of Trinity]

I'm very impressed: a whole new strategy.

 

The first question I have, though, is how your (Mental Magic + Shaping) Agent compares to a (Shaping + Mental Magic) Shaper. Overall your style seems more like what I'd think a Shaper should be, so I'd be a bit surprised if you couldn't do the same thing a bit better starting with a Shaper. If I understand rightly, you use both Magic and Shaping but little Melee, so I'd actually expect the Shaper's combination of strong Shaping and moderate Magic to do better at it than the Agent's strong Magic and weak Shaping.

 

I wouldn't say immensely surprised, though, because I could imagine that the Agent works out better because you need sky-high levels of Mental Magic or Spellcraft to be able to Dominate Eyebeasts consistently. That's why I've never gotten much juice out of Terror and Dominate, I expect -- there's a threshold before they really pay off. What sort of levels do you need to make these spells work in the various stages of the game?

[Suspicious Vlish]

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What sort of levels do you need to make these spells work in the various stages of the game?

Hmmm, I can dominate/terrorize pretty effectively with about 7-8 mental magic, and 8 spellcraft (remember that I have spellcraft enhancing equipment, and used canisters/Sharon. That's a great thing about being an Agent, all of your primary skill can be enhanced by canisters/quests).

On very strong foes, Dominate only last a round or two. But when you think about it, it's worth it (eg. My Eass example). 800 damage in one round is nothing to sneer at.
Some here might say "Yeah, but I could do the same with 8 searers." True, but we don't care about the Essence/Spell energy cost, but about the time. Because in Torment, the speed of the kill is crucial. When it comes to the crunch, if the enemy hits you, you are dead (unless your are guardian. Agents never have enough constitution to take hits).

I've tried the 'inverse' combo with Shaper, heavy shaping, and some battle magic/mental magic. Not nearly as effective, as you need lots of spellcraft and mental magic to hit, something which the Shaper can't afford. The high cost of parry really hurts, too. As an agent, you only need a couple of fire shaping to make a Drayk, which has a, ummm, 100% chance of hitting.

Since you have battle magic and spellcraft, that is a great bonus for your creations.

Quite simply, my Agent build is good in theory, and is good in practice.

[Student of Trinity]

Hmmm, I'd like to try the Shaper alternative. I bet it could be made to work well, since magic doesn't cost Shapers too much, and they can also wear the enhancers.

 

I don't understand your reference to Parry, since in my experience you have to have very high levels of Parry before you can rely on it to prevent opponents hitting you.

 

Your Easss example is certainly a classic -- I always wondered why that Rhotghroth was there, and now I know -- but it has also got to be the single best case in the whole game for your strategy, since you have exactly two enemies, one is physically very strong but mentally mediocre, and they start out close to each other. Overall, I'm sure your mental Agent strategy is an effective alternative, but I'm not sure it's superior to the traditional speed-and-firepower Agent.

 

Two other questions:

Do you get much use out of Mass Madness?

 

And, do you think that Terror and Dominate could be effectively used without going whole-hog into Mental Magic? That is, would it be worth it for me to just put a few more points into MM for my traditional Shapers and Agents, and get some occasional use from T and D? Or do those spells only come into their own if you specialize enough to reach quite high MM and SC?

[Suspicious Vlish]

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I don't understand your reference to Parry, since in my experience you have to have very high levels of Parry before you can rely on it to prevent opponents hitting you.

Well, I only sunk about 4 points into it, the rest I got from canisters. And I have a 50% to block. I think that a higher character level also increases your chance to parry/riposte.

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Two other questions:
Do you get much use out of Mass Madness?

Yes.

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And, do you think that Terror and Dominate could be effectively used without going whole-hog into Mental Magic?

No. Definitely not.

Your shaper should specialize wholly in Shaping, sacrificing almost everything for his creations.