A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4

[Mr.Bookworm]

And what exactly would set Flahhks, Vones, and Flitches apart from the other creations?

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Quote:

origanaly posted by robsavage:
p.s. I think Nick Ringer has a great idea with introducing Creations that have the ability to Fly(maybe using just ranged attacks).

Hay robsavage I thought of flying with creations!!! Read the first post on page 8 and nick, stop takeing credit for it.

Quote:

origanaly posted by nick ringer:
Or, maybe my ideas regarding flight were better ...

[robsavage]

I really don't care whos idea it was originally, but he did draw the little picture things hahaha...

 

Quote:

There's already multiple ending according to your actions.

Anyways, should there be a bow type weapon? It could be like batons, except less damage but no ammo required

And as for that, I meant for each Character type. Such as a variety of endings for the Shaper, Guardian, and Agent...also if they have "rebels" that individual character should get its own set of endings.

[1337 h4x0r]

My idea for G4? Add the Giant, Intelligent, Friendly, Talking spiders!! Yeah!!

[Mr.Bookworm]

That's Avernum, not Geneforge. Maybe the RSIFTO ( Regular Sized Intelligent Friendly Talking Ornks) though.

[1337 h4x0r]

I know the spiders are in Avernum, I was saying that they should be added to Geneforge as well.

[1337 h4x0r]

I know the spiders are in Avernum, I was saying that they should be added to Geneforge as well.

 

EDIT: Sorry for the double post, accidentaly double-clicked. Or something.

[Mr.Bookworm]

But, it would probably be bad for both series if crossovers happened. Geneforge is Geneforge and Avernum is Avernum.

[robsavage]

Might even be good to throw a love story into the war scene of Geneforge 4. Since people think differently of you with every action you do then why can't you get people to love you? You can make 2 different characters to suit both Male and Female characters as a "mate" within the game to add another twist to the story line, and even have a few areas where you have to guide and protect her/him. You can choose what sex you would like to be from the begginning and this would open up a slightly different storyline involving the right connection between woman and man. Might even open up the Geneforge series to a whole new level of gameplay allowing for multiple options and ways to please, or even offend, those NPC's(Non Player Characters) within the world of Geneforge.

 

Just an idea...

[Mr.Bookworm]

No.

 

Edit: I think romance of any kind would be harmful to Geneforge. Unless it's intergrated into the main plot, it would probably hurt Geneforge.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Or mabey you could have started the war because of love... like you ran away with a big good and powerful guys wife, he rebels to get revenge (goes evil) and then the shaper counsel has you go and stop him meanwhile your girlfreind gets murderd by her x-husband's creations and you find out and kill him. lol

 

P.S. Im not sure i like this idea though.

[Grain of Salt]

The transforming of Geneforge into a soap opera is a general no-no.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Lol thats what i thought but some may have liked it so i posted it. But i could always write a story I have the imagination for it just not the writing skills.

[Micawber]

Quote:

Originally written by Mr.Bookworm:
But, it would probably be bad for both series if crossovers happened. Geneforge is Geneforge and Avernum is Avernum.

Too late - see Avernum 4 (also known as Averforge).

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by sharx:

 

Quote:

Hay robsavage I thought of flying with creations!!! Read the first post on page 8 and nick, stop takeing credit for it.

Uh, sharx...searching for "flying creation" brings up nine topics. In fact, Nick Ringer mentioned flying creations in one of those threads nearly a month before you mentioned flying creations in this one.

 

In fact, requests for flying creations (if you'll forgive Dikiyoba for the bad pun) have been flying around the Geneforge Forum for a long time.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I havn't played much A4. But back on-topic. How do you think Jeff will implement the "play as a servile" thing? It would make no sense Shaper's-as-a-faction wise. Maybe the Shapers aren't a sect? Oh, also, three classes taking the place of Guardian, Shaper, and Agent. In G4 at the beggining, maybe you choose a job? Say, Alchemist/Sage (Shaper), Constable (Guardian), and Thief (Agent). From that point you are a normal human/servile. However, you have been expressing serious doubts about Shapers and the treatment of creations. During this time of war, Shaper's execute anyone expressing "rebellious" beliefs. But before the soldiers they dispatch to "take care of you" arrive, the Rebels approach you. They offer to give you a canister that will allow you to Shape, and teach you how to Shape. Fast Forward 2 Months. You have just finished the basic course. However, that's when the Shapers attack. From then on you are free to join either Ghaldring, Greta (who has become an important advisor) and the Rebels, What remains of the Shaper Council, Alwan (who is an important General), and the other Shapers, or the

Awakened Alliance, made up of Humans, Serviles, Shapers, and even a few Drayks. All they want is for the war to stop. They are led by Learned Minar, Shaper Rean, and the wise, old, Drakon Fhethrar Blaze. You can question your Rebel training, become a Rebel, or join the AA, and try to end the war.

 

EDIT: The Shapers, in their darkest hour, will let you join if your a Servile, because they need everyone they can get. They wouldn't be as nice to you, but you could join. And betray your own kind.

[robsavage]

I had meant for the "romance" kinda thing to be part of the plot of the rebellion. Kinda like protecting your people, beliefs, and the ones you love. It could go hand in hand with the plot if written correctly, but it was just a suggestion to throw out there to attract a wider variety of people to the game by adding more things that you can wonder about explore into within the world of Geneforge.

 

If you can be a serville, and they often spoke of being "bonded" then it would make sense for servilles, rebels, and Shapers to all have something such as that in common with one another. Mostly I suggested this to attract all sorts of people to the game and to peak some interests of others.

 

But like I said...it's only a suggestion.

[Nick Ringer]

Cool off, it doesn't matter who thought of this or that.

 

My creations are pure-orange and only occupy terrain of the same color. Also, they tell you "you're cute" periodically.

[Grain of Salt]

Quote:

Originally written by Mr.Bookworm:
EDIT: The Shapers, in their darkest hour, will let you join if your a Servile, because they need everyone they can get. They wouldn't be as nice to you, but you could join. And betray your own kind.

This doesn't make any logical sense, though. Why would an intelligent servile fight for himself to be killed and imprisoned? The only way I see is that they might bribe you to agree to fight for them by promising not to kill you, but then the killing of your own kind would make being allying with loyal shapers even less appealing.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by I Would Have Been Your Daddy:
The only way I see is that they might bribe you to agree to fight for them by promising not to kill you, but then the killing of your own kind would make being a Loyalist even less appealing.

Wouldn't "Loyalist" be something of a misnomer under those circumstances?

[Grain of Salt]

An excellent point.

[Student of Trinity]

An Awakened Servile is just one in whom the deep instinct to serve the Shapers has been lulled into a restless sleep.

[1337 h4x0r]

You guys are totally off-topic, what about the Giant, Intelligent, Friendly, Talking spiders!! >.<''

[Igor]

*rips own face off*

 

argh, the ideas. THEY BURN!

[Bomber]

Hey what about the other intelligent insects!

GIFTR: Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Roaches.

[Dolphin]

The thought of GIFTS in Geneforge is just as awful as Shapers in Avernum.

[Mr.Bookworm]

In Avernum 5, all of the GIFTS need to die a horrible death. That way nothing like like this will pop up again. It could even be a Quest.

 

EDIT: Though that would probably set them down the "Lets Bring Back The GIFTS" path.

[Randomizer]

I want a cannister of Raid to get rid of the Giant Intelligent Talking Roaches. Especially the ones that think I'm cute.

 

A servile as a starting character would normally be a warrior (guardian), but there were some implications that serviles could use cannisters under certain circumstances. So it might be possible for them to acquire spells (agent) and maybe some shaper powers by maybe using existing equipment. After all the Takers in Geneforge 1 were using the vats to get creations.

[1337 h4x0r]

Quote:

Hey what about the other intelligent insects!
GIFTR: Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Roaches.

Nu, those things are gross and dirty and ew. The spiders are friendly and clean. =)

[Bomber]

The GIFTS won't be very happy with you considering that the GIFTR are their friends.

[Major]

"A servile as a starting character" Reading this again brought this to mind.

(This image is not against being a servile in geneforge 4 it was just what came to my mind.)

[Nick Ringer]

As long as we're so pathetically off topic:

 

I have always hated the way the serviles looked, with their big, pointy noses. A little too inhuman for me, you know? Who agrees? I think they should look more childish, and live up to their name. And now for one of my characteristic sketches:

 

 

Didn't turn out how I expected. Tried to make a fat, sad looking creature.

[olop4444]

Hehe... this isn't really a FEW advance notes on G4 anymore is it?

[Nick Ringer]

There have only been a FEW notes by Jeff himself.

 

Fortunately, he (in my opinion, correctly) predicted that more people would read further comments if he made a new thread, which he did.

[Suspicious Vlish]

You could have been:

Quote:

This doesn't make any logical sense, though. Why would an intelligent servile fight for himself to be killed and imprisoned?

I'm not the one who proposed the scenario. However, siding with the Rebellion doesn't seem like a fantastic option if you want to be 'free'. Power crazed drakons, and canister abusing humans, who have a habit of oppressing the ordinary serviles/drayks/humans, and sending them out as cannon fodder.

 

In fact, the Drakons and rogue Shapers remind me of the pigs from Animal Farm. Not much of a better alternative than the humans.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by the Waylander:

 

Quote:

In fact, the Drakons and rogue Shapers remind me of the pigs from Animal Farm. Not much of a better alternative than the humans.

The pigs were actually worse than the humans, as I recall.

 

All creations are equal, but some creations are more equal than others!

 

Dikiyoba.

[Grain of Salt]

The rebels at least have delusions of freedom.

[Student of Trinity]

Wouldn't that be a fantastic G4 Easter egg? An isolated farmyard area populated with talking, spell-casting Ornks, with appropriate names. Ornks have always looked more porcine than bovine to me. Plus it's the perfect place for the mandatory Create Ornk canister.

[Slawbug]

I still want to see an Ornkithopter.

[Nick Ringer]

As long as we're talking about Animal Farm, can we have Ornk playing cards and gambling with humans at the end?

[Mr.Bookworm]

That would be a nice little Easter Egg area...

The 4 Create Ornk canisters you need to create the Gornk(God of Ornks) would each be guarded in caverns by the Tornk(Terror Ornk), the Wornk(War Ornk), and the Pornk(Plague Ornk). After you killed one of these ornks, in you acquire a Ornk Key. After collecting all three, you would be able to access the small building in the center of the map, where you would face off against Napolean, the Big Pork, his 9 trained Huge Roamers, several Humans(armed with Shaped Lances and Aura of Flames), and Shapers(I'm sure you don't need an explanation as to what they could do). After you beat them, you would get the 4th Create Ornk canister, and the choice between 5 "Ornk Items". Either: the Ornkbone Claymore, the Ornkskin Slippers, the Ornkmeat Charm, the All-Ornk Protecter, and the Ornksteel Gauntlets.

 

Table of Ornk Items:

Ornkbone Claymore- (60-200 damage), +2 to all Primary Stats

Ornkskin Slippers- +80% Armor, +4 to Dextirity, Parry, and QA

Ornkmeat Charm- +2 to EVERY stat

All-Ornk Protecter- +100% Armor, +4 to Endurance and Str.

Ornksteel Gauntlets- +75% Armor, +5 to Lead., Mech. and Magic Skills

 

Table of Boss Ornks:

Tornk: Can cast all spells and inflicts Terror in melee.

Wornk: Can cast Strong Daze. Has 12 AP. 100-300 damage

Pornk: Inflicts every kind of status ailment every turn.

Napolean: Has combined powers of all the other Boss Ornks

 

NOTE: Within this area, you can find a cavern with the rebel creations. They are led by Snowball, Ornk of the People.They are very willing to help you if you treat them nice...

 

NOTE2: A side quest is to rescue the Battle Alpha named Boxer from death at the Armor Factory.

 

NOTE3: You can go buy some very nice Spells, Canisters, Armor, and Weapons from the Drakon youth Moses Blaze. They even say, for the right price, he'll tell you some very interesting information...

 

NOTE4: I have way to much time on my hands.

 

EDIT: The Ornk "tree" would look something like this:

1- Ornk-Same thing as the last 3 games.

2- Battle Ornk-A blue Ornk with 10 AP and increased stats

3- Ur-Ornk- A insanely powerful red Ornk.

4- Gornk (God of Ornks)-Can kill a Drakon in 2 hits. Gold colored.

[Phase Equilibrium]

Quote:

Originally written by Dolphin.:
The thought of GIFTS in Geneforge is just as awful as Shapers in Avernum.

I had a horrible vision that shapers did exist in Avernum.

Take a look at the names:
drake - drayk
dragon - drakon
gazer - gazer
eyebeast - eyebeast
vahnatai shaper - shaper

Are those slight variations the corruption of language over time? Are the vahnatai the carnister-twisted, super-mutated, crystallinised remnants of humans from the archaic shaper civillisation in which we are some young apprentices?

[Major]

"Are those slight variations the corruption of language over time? Are the vahnatai the carnister-twisted, super-mutated, crystallinised remnants of humans from the archaic shaper civillisation in which we are some young apprentices?"

 

Many people have thought of this before. (look at the Avenum 4 forum) Personaly I think they did not want to take canisters so they developed some sort of christal thing that would change them. (It might be wearing off with time, the A4 vahnatai seemed to be gaining weight.)

 

"drake - drayk

dragon - drakon

gazer - gazer

eyebeast - eyebeast

vahnatai shaper - shaper"

 

Yes, this is true (probably because the same person made them up)but, look there are others out there.

[Archmage Alex]

Long before A4 came out I proposed "Vahnatai Creationism Theory With A Twist" in General, I don't feel like looking for it though.

[Slawbug]

There really needs to be some kind of equivalent to the...

 

Hold on, this deserves its own topic.

 

EDIT: Be enlightened.

[Yoav]

Fun... I find it hard to wait. Too bad there's still so much time to wait for it... Especially since I'm a PC user.

 

For both nostalgy and discussion purposes, here's a (very very long) mail I sent SpiderWeb about a year ago:

 

Quote:

Hello,

I've played all three games in the Geneforge series and want to add to

the many compliments you have probably already received for it. I

spent much of my so little time playing Geneforge with enthusiasm, and

definately the games' playability are their strongest quality.

Although I liked 'Geneforge III' less than its predecessors, You do

seem to try and supply the user with more small game features with

every new version.

 

As adequate in a feedback, here is what I would like to see in the

next Geneforge, should one ever be created (Even though it does not

currently seem likely). I think some of the following can greatly

improve the game's playability, some would contribute to its

reliability and some are just plain neat. This is rather long, I hope

you are ready...:

 

1. Authority and control - Since powerful Shapers can many times gain

control over some rogue creation, of even one of a less powerful

Shaper, I think a change in the whole control system in the game could

be in order. Now a creation's owner is always predetermined, outside

of some specific creations you could take over with Leadership skills

or temporary uses of the Dominate spell. I think that every creation

should have some 'loyalty' quality or something like that, depending

on its intelligence, creature type, creator (level/skills/etc), the

distance from its creator perhaps, the creations around (type/owner)

and specific circumstances. If it gets under some limit, the creature

might go rogue. If it gets even lower and a powerful Shaper is around,

the creation might choose to join him/her. This quality may or may not

be visible to the player, but I think it would add a new dimension to

the game. I envision some very powerful Shaper going through a land

full of very weak, rogue creations (the such that would barely give

any exprerience anyway) and just collecting them all by gaining

control over them, to later use them as an army against some other

strong enemy. I also see a Guardian with weak shaping skills doing

most of his/her fighting by hand, since creations wandering too far go

rogue or join the powerful enemy Shaper. Finally, a moderate Shaper

might choose to create a strong but smart Thahd and not a stronger

Clawbug, since the enemy Thahds are more likely to join and army of

other Thahds. Or perhaps a mind-tricking Vlish would contiribute.

This may possibly add more only in advanced parts of the game, and

should not take effect too often (A player would not like to start the

game with its initial Fyora going rogue), but might add some very

interesting aspects. It would be more interesting but much more

complicated if these effects would remain when one travels (going to

another area).

 

2. Guards and Ambushes - One of the important things points RPGs, in

my opinion, and indeed one that seems to have received some attention

in Genefore, is giving the player the feeling that his/her actions

affect and change the world, that he/she is not playing in a static

environment. Here is an idea to greatly improve this, in my opinion: A

strong Shaper might be able to leave a loyal creation to guard some

area (not in the current map), just like enemy Shaper many times do

(e.g. Litalia leaving creations to guard over entrances to important

locations, and many other examples). This might require some very high

skills like authority, creature intelligence and perhaps extra essence

(maybe leave an essence pod?), however.

Since it seems the next Geneforge might be in much of a war setting,

this might prove useful in both protecting areas and making the people

of a town like you more (or less, depending on who the guard should

protect...). I do admit, however, that this feature might be somewhat

problematic in the current style of the game.

 

3. Mines and Traps - I think that the ability to create and place

mines would be very nice, since it is related to being a good Shaper,

and most players feel that they are quite good Shapers (e.g. in

'Geneforge I' after you use the Geneforge...). This might be very

useful in intercepting patrols or tricking enemies that are strong but

foolish. In addition to creating them, a player with good Mechanics

skill might be able to change to behavior of a mine (i.e. to only

damage creations, or even ones of a specific type). The same might go

for pylons and other living traps. This feature might simply add to

the variety and reliability in the game if it is limited to the curent

area (i.e. your mines disappear/go back to their initial behavior when

you travel), and might otherwise join my previous point (2) in

changing the style of the game (e.g. one could plant mines in the

entrance to a town if an attack is likely). But again, this change in

game style may not be wanted.

 

4. Creation Intelligence and Abilities - I think creations should be

able to do more than just fight (and sometimes suicide on mines for

their creator). It seems logical that in order to well infiltrate a

city of hostile Drayks, one would create a very intelligent and loyal

Drayk. The Drayk might be able to talk others into believing things a

Shaper might never be able to (since they hate Shapers). In the

extreme, a powerful Shaper might simply be able to create a Servile

(and the implications of this need not be specified).

A smaller change but still useful, is finally giving creations the

ability to use spells like a Shaper - the player should be able to

choose from the spells the creations can case, and not just choose

between a ranged and melee attack letting the creation use its default

attack (e.g. a Terror Vlish might have several mind spells to choose

from).

 

5. Skills and Learning - I think a very nice ability would be to learn

not only from people and canisters, but also from experience. This

means that if you kill or even see many Cryoas and inspect them,

having a high Fire Shaping skill might enable you to learn how to

create one (or improve the type you can already create). It seems

logical that a powerful Shaper would be able to immitate creations

seen elsewhere. Perhaps some new skill might contirbute to this

ability, such as 'Anatomy', but this may also pend only Shaping

skills. This would greatly improve the game reliablity and playablity

in my view, as well as simply be fun.

Another option to this, second in betterness but yet nice, is giving

ability points as well as skill points to let the user choose what to

improve (given that the Shaping skills are adequate of course). As I

said, I like the other option much more.

 

6. Small Issues - There are several things in the game that simply

disturb me in that they seem too artificial or just annoying.

• One reliability issue is the fact that killing a store owner would

  give you close to nothing whereas giving him/her some money would give

  you rare equipment, or the other way around. I think any store should

  have its entire gold and equipment available to thievery (quietly) and

  robbery (by force). There are many other game features that might help

  to prevent a player from abusing this (e.g. guarding the money and

  equipment in some safe near the store with a sealed door and traps,

  but it must be synchronized with what you buy/sell!).

• Another reliability issue is the use of boats and the such (in

  'Genefore III') - it is not very logical that a simple boat (not a

  hard-to-anchor ship or such) would only be able to take you to one

  specific place. Perhaps the whole use of boats is problematic here...

  Some annoying feature in 'Genefore III', in my opinion, is the

  'special' areas to which you cannot travel. I think every area change

  should be available in the travel map, even if it originates in the

  center of an area...

• I think the improvement of creations gives no reason to want to keep

  or help a specific creation, since even given unlimited experience,

  your creation can only get as far as your essence permits - or in

  other words - as well as you can create a new one. So one would

  usually absorb a creation and go to some friendly town to recreate it.

  I think that if creation experience would become more relevant, and if

  improving your creations would not require any essence, you would try

  harder to keep your creations alive (and not send them to their death

  to clear a path of mines), and sometimes send them to train by killing

  weaker rogues, etc. One would also likely invest more in creating an

  loyal creation (accroding to my point (1) to keep it for along time,

  thus encouraging a player to act like a responsible Shaper and not

  some crazy human with Shaping abilities.

• Finally, the ability to Shape during battle seems important. If

  enemy shapers and Spwners can do it, why can't I? You could limit the

  abuse of this feature by taking many action points for such a thing,

  or requiring a relatively quiet envorinment (e.g. the Shaper is not

  attacked in the relevant round, etc.). Perhaps creations created in

  battle should also be weaker, since the Shaper can give less attention

  and concentration. And as introduced in 'Genefore III', maybe a very

  strong Shaper should be able to create Fading creations that would

  waste essence (i.e. use up an essence pod) and disappear in travel or

  such.

That's it!

I hope there would indeed come a 'Geneforge IV' anytime soon, and that

you would consider my suggestions for the very least...

Thank you for your time!

Yoav.

[*i]

Why not repost this in a new topic considering this one is over three months since the last post?