[anticipating] How will I get past the weird Artilas?

[Student of Trinity]

How will I get past the weird Artilas outside the gate?

 

Well, actually, G3 is not out yet. But I'm sure there will be weird Artilas outside a gate, somewhere in it. There have to be. And they will be hard to get past. They always are.

 

How many other 'help' topics can we antipate in advance?

[Kelandon]

In advance? I'm hoping very few, since there's kind of no point.

 

To get past the artilas, you have to use the new spell KABOOMIFY, which does 5d30+75.

 

At least, that's the sort of response that I'm expecting people to give.

 

Seriously, though, it might be useful to lay some ground rules for help topics. If your question is how to get past a certain combat, you probably want to include what your characters are, shaper classes and creations -- so if you were asking for help for the snow ambush screenshot, you would say, "I'm in [whatever location] and my party consists of a Shaper, a Guardian, and an Agent with no creations, and I'm trying to defeat a vlish and a gazer. How do I do this?"

[Student of Trinity]

I don't really want help with my anticipated Artilas, of course. My point is that there are some predictable kinds of challenges in the GF games, especially early on. It might be amusing, especially for those who are most rabidly champing at the bit for the new installment, to list some of the obvious ones, so that we can later reflect on how Jeff creatively expanded the palette of GF challenges, or failed to do so, in G3.

 

Laying out a forum policy for 'Help!' topics is an excellent idea, of course. Does this forum support stickies?

[Kelandon]

No, but I can just put that in the header, which I probably will do when the game actually comes out.

 

And hey, that's an interesting point: what recycled tactical challenges has he used?

[Student of Trinity]

Examples of repeated tactical challenges:

 

Low level party vs. mixed Thahds and Artilas, in challenging numbers. A fairly safe staging area, from which you are warned of what lies ahead, is provided.

G1, Pentil Plains; G2, Infested Woods

 

(Pyro)roamers spread out over a map, but swarming you if you let them.

G1, those marshes; G2, those other marshes

 

Shades plus radiation.

G1, Power Core; G2, that crystal mine

 

Enough clawbugs that you can get swarmed.

G1 and G2 both, several places.

 

Vlish that will gang up and hunt you down.

G1, Pentil Woods, Junkyard; G2, Medab Road, others

 

Augmented superdrakon goes medieval on you.

Okay, this one was new to G2.

[Icshi]

It's all very well to discuss recycled tactical situations, but what about story situations?

 

A drayk in a valley will offer to trade with you at outrageous prices:

GF1: Ol' what's-his-name; GF2: That other drayk/drakon

 

Mysterious loner out in the middle of nowhere who gives you cryptic advice, pretends to be sitting on the fence while actually encouraging you (in a roundabout way) to join a certain faction and/or is willing to help you change your political affiliations once and only once by whispering in the right ears, offers to make you a special item if you can scrounge up the right materials, and refuses to let you to ransack their locked bedroom:

GF1: That servile hermit, GF2: Sharon

 

Meet a desperate, isolated band of warriors out in the middle of nowhere who are surrounded by enemies who have been launching random attacks on them at random during the past few months, and who will rely on your incredible fighting abilities to destroy a swarm of their enemies single-handedly before you've even had your breakfast:

GF1: The Obeyers out in the woods; GF2: That fort out in the swamp

 

A raving, glowing, powerhungry, borderline lunatic will offer you supreme power like that which he himself possess if you will do some trifling errand for him which he apparently can't be bothered to complete and whose reluctance to do it himself does not at all reflect his cowardice despite his extremely competent abilities. It's really just to prove you're trustworthy, yeah that's it!:

GF1: Trajkov; GF2: Barzahl

 

And so on. Still, I can't wait to see how the names have changed yet again for Geneforge 3! But honestly, I do love these games. History does repeat, you know, especially when power is involved.

[Student of Trinity]

Yeah, I don't hold it against them that there is a certain amount of repetition of basic motifs. Between the internal logic of the game world, and the constraints of game mechanics, certain situations are bound to be common. Good design involves using as many actually different situations as possible, and finding ways to make the analogous situations feel different. I feel that Jeff has done well on both counts with G1 and G2. As long as the similarity isn't bad, it's actually good, at least in my book -- variations on a theme are nice.

 

So, for instance, the Infested Woods in G2 are much more tangled geometrically than Pentil Plains in G1, and they have a weird vat, a lurking servile, a spawner, and a valuable herb. Infested Woods is a creepy, spooky place, while Pentil Plains is noonday violence with a tragic background (the ruined farms).

 

Oh, and I don't find it so hard to believe that Trajkov and Barzahl would rather have you tackle Goetsch and the Takers, respectively. It's far from obvious who would win an all-out Trajkov/Goettsch or Barzite/Taker confrontation. By the time you can do the final mission for either B or T, you can also toast them. So I think it's fair to say that both tasks really are beyond the capability of B or T without you.

 

Even if they do have some shot at doing their big jobs themselves, Trajkov and Barzahl are both leaders of large groups, with huge long-term ambitions, so neither is going to be keen on staking everything on one very chancy venture. Whereas if this stranger from nowhere can do it for them, great; and conversely if the stranger fails, that at least gets rid of the stranger who might be a rival, and is bound to weaken the opposition to some extent.

[Icshi]

All very good points there.

 

Yes, I was teasing Trajkov and Barzahl, poor fellows. One of the risks of being a leader is that you immediately become the target for satirists, jesters, and software board frequentees, who distort the facts to suit their own derisive aims.

[genexile]

Quote:

Originally written by Icshi:
It's all very well to discuss recycled tactical situations, but what about story situations?

A drayk in a valley will offer to trade with you at outrageous prices:
GF1: Ol' what's-his-name; GF2: That other drayk/drakon

Mysterious loner out in the middle of nowhere who gives you cryptic advice, pretends to be sitting on the fence while actually encouraging you (in a roundabout way) to join a certain faction and/or is willing to help you change your political affiliations once and only once by whispering in the right ears, offers to make you a special item if you can scrounge up the right materials, and refuses to let you to ransack their locked bedroom:
GF1: That servile hermit, GF2: Sharon

Meet a desperate, isolated band of warriors out in the middle of nowhere who are surrounded by enemies who have been launching random attacks on them at random during the past few months, and who will rely on your incredible fighting abilities to destroy a swarm of their enemies single-handedly before you've even had your breakfast:
GF1: The Obeyers out in the woods; GF2: That fort out in the swamp

A raving, glowing, powerhungry, borderline lunatic will offer you supreme power like that which he himself possess if you will do some trifling errand for him which he apparently can't be bothered to complete and whose reluctance to do it himself does not at all reflect his cowardice despite his extremely competent abilities. It's really just to prove you're trustworthy, yeah that's it!:
GF1: Trajkov; GF2: Barzahl

And so on. Still, I can't wait to see how the names have changed yet again for Geneforge 3! But honestly, I do love these games. History does repeat, you know, especially when power is involved.

I'm pretty sure that the one that will be 'lunatic' will be Litalia in GF3, or maybe THE creation behind THAT door.
(You know, the things we don't know about... If we don't know what I am talking about, I... Someone, anyone, help me understand what I am saying!)

[avernum master]

Most likely of all:

 

There will be someone trying to overthrow the shapers, who will force you to do some inexplicable and impossible task to join them

G1: That servile who wants you to kill that guy in the fort(impossible without cheating)

 

You will have to kill a large amount of Ranged and Melee enemies to get across a bridge to get to a game critical level, but cant because its only the first few minutes.

 

You will be confused for most of the game by the constant warring of ridiculous sects who probably dont deserve your help anyways.

 

(Honestly, the sects just annoy me, because you are influenced to join them by the characters/ to make the game easier)