Scenario Designing

[Xaiya]

I really want to be able to design scenarios.

Unfortunatly, I haven't done this before and the instructions confuse me in some ways.

 

I really want to create a scenario that includes cutscenes, custum monsters, custum terrain, and outdoor/in town scripts, etc for my scenario idea.

 

Is there something that can help me understand this better?

[Kelandon]

Look through the various help on my page and linked from my page. Check out the articles under My Articles and the Cookbook in Erik Westra's Stuff, and also look through the Links.

 

I think I'm going to add a question later today to the Designer FAQ about getting started.

[Enraged Slith]

Start with the most simple form of scripting, for instance, displaying a dialog box when the player walks over a space. Work from there, reading other designer's scripts for examples. Eventually, the script structure will start making sense. It's hard work but worth it in the end.

[Ephesos]

Also, Muffin: Check out TM's newest scenario "Settlers" for a quick example of a very, very simple scenario. It includes documentation of how the scenario was created, and was designed with new designers like yourself in mind.

 

Of course, half of TM's intent was to prove that you can do a scenario in a day. (Not recommended for your first attempt)

[aka Ravenwing]

Quote:

Originally written by Ephesos:
Also, Muffin: Check out TM's newest scenario "Settlers" for a quick example of a very, very simple scenario. It includes documentation of how the scenario was created, and was designed with new designers like yourself in mind.

Of course, half of TM's intent was to prove that you can do a scenario in a day. (Not recommended for your first attempt)

Yes, but the other half of his intent was that anyone can make a small, simple scenario that doesn't offend people with its suckiness.

This is the part to bear in mind, Muffin.

And welcome to the crew. We can always use more designers.

[nikki.]

Yeah, what Nem said.

 

I feel as if I have to say this, and it may get diluted in the number of times it's repeated, but if you have a problem, most of us are willing to help you.

[Xaiya]

Hmm, I shall try this scenario.

Also, I have many ideas for a scenario, but the one I want to create the most would be called "Muffins n' Hell".

 

Unfortunatly, my idea would require complex scripts, so I will do something different.

 

Also, thank you! (And my favorite idea is not as stupid as it sounds, sort of)

[Lazarus.]

That sounds promising. I'm just disappointed I'll have to wait for the first installment of the "Food in Hell" series.

[Xaiya]

Well, Infernal Flamming Muffin is included in it.

 

And you get to explore a certain section of Hell.

 

Edit -and I am not evil, the muffins are. And if you don't mind spoilers, look below

 

--------------------

WARNING, SPOILERS

--------------------

 

The muffin lord demon is the final boss, starting with a cutscene with Infernal Flamming Muffin teleporting in. He deals much damage, and weakens him alot but he is blasted. The boss is still hard, but you will have to wait to see what happens next...

[Ephesos]

...

 

I'm floored, quite honestly. Good luck finding the graphics, Muffin.

[nikki.]

Iffy, I'm going to be honest now. And it may sound harsh, but it has to be said, I think.

 

Nobody would play this scenario, as it is. Not even for novelty value. Despite only having a few details, I can see nothing here worth saving. I'm sorry.

 

Maybe if you think of another idea, and implement that first? Do a simple scenario - maybe one where you have to kill a bandit leader or something? That won't need complex scripts, and is probably going to appeal to more people than one about a Muffin Lord Demon.

 

Jeff Vogel said it best when he said "Your first impulses will probably lead you astray". And I'd like to point out I'm not saying give up scenario designing.

 

Just, you know, think about making something that others would want to play.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by Jobriath:
Nobody would play this scenario, as it is. Not even for novelty value.

That's just flatly untrue. Joke scenarios have been well-received before.

Quote:

Do a simple scenario - maybe one where you have to kill a bandit leader or something? That won't need complex scripts, and is probably going to appeal to more people than one about a Muffin Lord Demon.

Your idea sounds horribly boring and totally without redeeming value. If there's one thing that Avernum players don't need, it's another pointless scenario about killing bandits.

By all means, make a scenario that's bizarre and different. If it comes out bad, well, it's no worse than making a totally bland, normal first scenario, and at least it's different.

[Nioca]

Quote:

Originally written by Jobriath:
Do a simple scenario - maybe one where you have to kill a bandit leader or something?

*cough*

[nikki.]

Quote:

That's just flatly untrue. Joke scenarios have been well-received before.

The difference is, Rats Aplenty was funny. Muffin Demons aren't.

Quote:

Your idea sounds horribly boring and totally without redeeming value. If there's one thing that Avernum players don't need, it's another pointless scenario about killing bandits.

I agree. Totally. If the scenario is pointless and is about nothing but going to kill a bandit, and doing it, and then leaving. Something like a bandit problem is a decent framwork to build off though. There are all kinds of twists you could pull off with that.

Quote:

By all means, make a scenario that's bizarre and different. If it comes out bad, well, it's no worse than making a totally bland, normal first scenario, and at least it's different.[/QB]

It is worse! If you make something terrible, nobody will play it! If you make something bland, theres a chance it can be spiced up when you get feedback in the beta period.

EDIT: And Nioca just proves my point. His scenario seems a bit dull when you read the intro text - it's "another bandit yarn". When you play the thing, though, you realise it's much more than that. It's using a tried-and-tested plot, doing something new with it, and whats more, enabling a new designer to learn the trade.

EDIT 2: And, for the record, I'm in no mood to start an argument. I just think Iffy's focus should be directed somewhere more "worthwhile".

[Lazarus.]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:
By all means, make a scenario that's bizarre and different. If it comes out bad, well, it's no worse than making a totally bland, normal first scenario, and at least it's different.

I agree to some extent-- Blades is meant to be a way to be creative and tell the stories you want to. Nobody is chained to the advice we offer, but if someone makes a scenario where the author himself is wandering through hell smiting muffins, he really shouldn't expect us to care.

It's important to note that just because it's novel doesn't mean it's good or worthwhile. A Little Girl was a novel scenario, it was also one of the most terrible scenarios ever made, so bad that the author himself would apparently like to forget he ever made it.

Keep this in mind-- and then do whatever the hell you want to.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by The Gators Win it All....... Again:
A Little Girl was a novel scenario, it was also one of the most terrible scenarios ever made, so bad that the author himself would apparently like to forget he ever made it.

The very existence of such scenarios is entertaining in its own way, though. Execrating a truly terrible scenario can be more fun than playing a merely bad one.

[Lazarus.]

Quote:

Originally written by Thuryl:
The very existence of such scenarios is entertaining in its own way, though. Execrating a truly terrible scenario can be more fun than playing a merely bad one.

True, but I don't think urging young designers to make god-awful scenarios so that we can mock them is what is meant when we say "You can always ask for help."

[Ephesos]

EDIT: Overreaction. Ignore.

[wz. As]

Quote:

Originally written by Ephesos:
EDIT: Overreaction. Ignore.

I don't think it was an overreaction; I think it was valid and needed to be said. Please consider putting the original post back.

[We Didn't Shard of Fire]

No, no, it was an overreaction, but it was mildly funny. I mean, if you picture some guys sitting around talking casually about muffin demons when suddenly a bulgy-eyed, horrified man jumps from his seat and starts yelling, "It's not true, we need scenarios, do what you want, scenarios are God, blather blather!"

[Lazarus.]

My artistic interpretation of what I am henceforth calling Muffin-Gate:

 

Six men are gathered in a Victorian style garden. They are gathered around a plate of muffins.

Nik: These are probably the worst muffins I've ever tasted, is this bran? Who the hell made these?

Kel: Just shutup and eat them.

Nik: Whatever happened to good old bannana nut? I think mine must have fallen in the toilet or something, that one over there looks promising.

Nioca *Around crumbs in his mouth*: MMff.

*Nikki reaches across table for a new muffin. *Kel smacks his hand.*

Kel: You'll eat what you're given!

Nik: Geeze.....

Laz: This is pretty much the Arby's of muffin platters.

Thuryl: Mmmmmmm, muffins.

Laz: I think mine has a hair on it, I'm sending it bac-- wait a second, is that a blueberry?

Thuryl: Mmmmmmm, blueberries.

Nik: Blueberries?

*Ephesos enters*

Eph: I've received complaints about unruliness and anti-muffin activities. This brunch is over!

Kel: Relax, we're just trying to enjoy our early morning meal in a peaceful fashion.

Laz: They have blueberries! -- although Nikki's might have fallen in the toilet.....

Eph: Blue.... berries...?

Nioca: Yeah, that's right.

Eph: I-- I was too hasty, I think I owe you gentlemen an apology.

Laz: Shutup and eat a muf--

Some Guy: Would you stop blathering already and fix the window?

Eph: We're in a garden, there are no windows. There's a gate right over there.....

Some Guy: Talk to ma' hand.

-Exeunt-

 

Edit: I'll be signing autographed copies tomorrow.

[Kelandon]

*applause*

[Marlenny]

I liked it. Nice job, Laz.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Lazarus:

 

Quote:

Laz: This is pretty much the Arby's of muffin platters.

Truly a masterpiece. The whole thing, but this line especially.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Swimmin' Salmon]

...

 

Someone should make a scenario that captures the essence of that dialogue. ...

[Slawbug]

...ironically, I think all the anti-muffin scenario comments have had the opposite effect. We're going to end up with three or four muffin scenarios now.

 

Let's get organized right now so they make sense when you put them together: somebody can do Blueberry Muffin, somebody can do Bran Muffin, Corn Muffin, and so on.

[Sudanna]

Oh, come on. we need more scenarios. Even bad ones. This might be a bad one, and the odds are in favor of that(It's his first scenario), but it's probably going to be better than. . . what, Shipwrecked? Even Muffin can script better than that.

 

For once, Nalyd supports you Muffin. It's still for his own selfish needs, though.

[Xaiya]

I just laughed and laughed...

...and laughed...

Oh and Muffins n' Hell will not be my first scenario, it is too complicated.

 

Unless I suddenly know how to make custum terrain, monsters, cut scenes...

The laughing part was of the conversation about eating muffins...and my mind is more sick and twisted than ever before.

 

Oh, and the graphics for muffins would look like normal ones, but when they attack yellow eyes show and they open up huge mouths.

[Slawbug]

Quote:

Originally written by Infernal Flamming Muffin:
Oh, and the graphics for muffins would look like normal ones, but when they attack yellow eyes show and they open up huge mouths.

It kinda disturbs me that I like this idea.

[nikki.]

Lazarus - you, my good man, are a genius.

 

And, of course, Iffy, I half want you to go out, and make a scenario about muffins now, just to prove me wrong.

[Xaiya]

I don't know how to make a scenario still.

I'm probably just pathetic or somthing.

 

The thing that I am best at is math, but I don't see how that could help.

 

Edit -what do people mean when they say "BoX"?

[nikki.]

"BoX" is a blanket term for both Blades of Avernum and Exile.

 

And which bit are you having trouble with, specifically. Have you tried reading the first chapter of The BoA Docs? It has a handy tutorial.

[We Didn't Shard of Fire]

Yes, following the tutorial and making "Basic Scenario" is a good exercise. The physical act of placing terrain and skeletons is the starting gate for more ambitious scenarios.

[Xaiya]

I can place terrain, monsters, etc.

I just don't know how to make scripts.

 

Edit -typo

[nikki.]

Which part of it are you having trouble with?

 

Also, go to Kelandon's website, it's linked pretty much all over this forum becasue it's so darn useful. There are scripting cookbooks and all sorts.

 

Also, don't be afraid to open up the scenario's that come with BoA to see how to do things. Looking at others work is a great way to learn.

[Callie]

I thought the docs were pretty self-explanatory along with assistance of reading other people's scripts. Terrain scripts are really easy; since most of the time I simply use the import command and state the graphics sheet and icon.

 

Congrats Lazarus, you're just as good as Dikiyoba.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by Excalibur:
Terrain scripts are really easy; since most of the time I simply use the import command and state the graphics sheet and icon.

Those are terrain object definitions, not terrain scripts.

[Enraged Slith]

Crawling forth from the deepest bowels of the Earth, it left a trail of destruction and delicious pastry treats in its wake...

[Lazarus.]

Brilliant! I can think of literally hundreds of uses for this graphic.........

 

Actually I can only think of one, but it's cool regardless

[Xaiya]

It wasn't exactly what I had in mind...

[Thralni]

Understanding how to make scripts will come in time. People have said it dozens of times: start simple, and you'll learn soon enough.

 

I think that's the only good advice we can give you at this moment. Then when you don't understand a specific thing, we are glad to help. However, coming here and declaring you don't understand the scripts, doesn't help you nor us. So:

 

- Open up the docs and do the basic scenario tutorial.

- Read what is said about the different types of scripts (terrain, creature, whatever). I recommend just starting with town and outdor scripts, though.

- If you don'y understand something, ask it here.

 

I recommend working in this order, instead of skipping the first two steps and immediatly come here to say you don't understand it. You're not pathetic, you're not dumb, you are a newb, and it's nothing to be ashamed of or anything.