Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 Happily, the existing Reload Scenario Script command already does this. As a reminder, are there any Mac users who would test this new version out for me? I really need to know if the undo system is robust enough to stand up to significant amounts of normal editing, and I don't have enough time test it under realistic conditions (doing serious work on a scenario) myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Send it my way and I'll look at it. tomwatts (at) berkeley (dot) edu By the way, it'd be sorta nice (although not by any means crucial) if there were a command similar to Reload Scenario Script that also reloaded the graphics. Currently the only way to get a scenario completely reloaded from the ground up is to re-open it from the File menu. This is mildly annoying, though not at all a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Count me in... and I promise to be more prompt about it than with other things I've tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 I'll test. pat (dot) s (dot) j (at) att (dot) net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Lazarus. Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Niemand:Happily, the existing Reload Scenario Script command already does this. Newsflash: I know next to nothing about the editor and it's many features Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 Those of you who were interested: I've sent you an email with the latest version. And Kelandon, your wish is my command. (I think) I've made the reload function reload the graphics library as well as the data script, so hopefully it'll do what you were looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 You, sir, are a magic man. A quick perusal shows that everything works spectacularly. I will continue to investigate to find bugs, but all is good so far. One other minor thing: IIRC, the game's window is ever-so-slightly larger than the editor's window, which can be a little weird when you're trying to see what the party will be able to see at any given time. It would be nice if they matched exactly. That seems like it might be hard to do, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Quote: Originally written by National Champion UF Gators-- Again:I've had a problem with the 3D editor's Change Outdoor Size feature. Basically it corrupts various towns, which eliminates its usefullness for obvious reasons. I've tried it with various scenarios with no success. Has anybody else had this problem? Yes. Just. It appears to be a Windows only problem, if it's working for others, and as well as messing up towns, it also destroyed my outdoors, and the editor shows me error messages when trying to load different towns. And promptly crashing. So TV is dead. Gah. I am not a happy man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Lazarus. Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 You know it makes a backup file before it changes the outdoor size, so your scenario hasn't really been corrupted. Open up TV.bas.bak to get back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Quote: Originally written by National Champion UF Gators-- Again:You know it makes a backup file before it changes the outdoor size, so your scenario hasn't really been corrupted. Open up TV.bas.bak to get back on track. In my scenario folder? Yay. I'm not on that computer at the moment, but I'll go and check later. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 You didn't make any backups of your own? Ouch. -------------------- One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs. - Robert Firth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Broken 3D Mode, Non-realistic acts very sluggishly when attempting redraw the screen. Realistic mode and 2D work fine. Outdoors there is no problem. Not limited by town size. Broken button: 3rd row, 6th from the left (outdoors and towns) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Yes, moving around is rather sluggish. This has been a problem repeatedly with the 3D editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Yeah, the slow view scrolling in 3D mode is annoying. I'll see if I can make any improvements, but I doubt it, there's a lot of stuff that has to be drawn on the screen and drawing is pretty much always slow. The fact that the editor depends on ancient Quickdraw doesn't help. I've found that the editor is a lot snappier when Blades of Avernum itself isn't running. It might have something to do with both of them using the same resource files or something, or it might just be the way the game hogs cpu time. Dahak: Broken how? By my figuring, the button you're referring to is the auto hills toggle button, which works perfectly for me. It only shows that it's done something if you're in height editing mode though. I didn't alter any of this functionality from the way it was when I started. Kelandon: Yes, I remember this issue. A quick check shows the game's view area to be ~500 by ~415 pixels, and the editor's to be ~460 by 460. Kernel Knowledge's dismissal of the possibility that this could be changed aside, I think it could be fixed. At one point I actually had a bug where the code that drew the tool buttons was having an overflow that made the editing view only a hundred pixels wide. So, I'm sure it can be done. I'll just have to dig into the code for the scroll buttons and main drawing to see if I can make it work right. Also, if possible I would like to make the view user resizable or at least have two different sizes. When checking what the player will see it's good to have a window the same size as the game uses, but when doing many editing tasks you want as large a view as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 It's not immediately obvious to me what more you're drawing on the screen than any previous version of the 3D Editor, though, so the sluggishness was a little surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Ah. The reason I thought is was broken was because there was no indication that it had been clicked since sound is turned off by default. It would be best to show the current status when clicking on the button whether or not you are in height edit mode since it has its effects in terrain mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Quote: It's not immediately obvious to me what more you're drawing on the screen than any previous version of the 3D Editor Oops, that's not what I meant. I mean that that mode does more drawing and graphics manipulation than the other modes. For instance, calculating the locations of and then drawing all of the grid and rectangle lines in 3D. I may be able to improve things a bit, though, because it appears that when scrolling the editor unnecessarily redraws the entire window instead of just that section. Quote: It would be best to show the current status when clicking on the button whether or not you are in height edit mode since it has its effects in terrain mode. I agree, and I'll fix this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Niemand: Quote: It's not immediately obvious to me what more you're drawing on the screen than any previous version of the 3D Editor Oops, that's not what I meant. I mean that that mode does more drawing and graphics manipulation than the other modes. What I'm getting at is, why is your editor so much slower than the regular 3D editor? What did you change about the drawing and graphics manipulation that made your editor slooooooooww down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 I keep telling you, I didn't change that code! It's the same as it has been. In fact, I can hardly tell a difference between the two. However, I'll see what I can do to speed it up. EDIT: So i've optimized the redrawing done when scrolling to a reasonable degree. Scrolling from one side of the Breeding Pit in Exodus now takes 3.40 seconds, while the original 3D editor takes 3.56 seconds. The difference isn't really significant, of course, but now the new editor is faster than the old. I can send you the newest version if you like, or we could wait until more changes have been accumulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 There is a noticable difference between the two. Obviously we need to do some regressive testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Okay, for the record, the reason I haven't been able to test it yet is that AOL fails at life. What kind of mail server is "unable to list mail"? Either that, or AOL ate my mail. EDIT: Scratch that, AOL stopped being a failure. Testing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Niemand:I can send you the newest version if you like Yes, please. What are the specs on your computer? Spidweb-based programming has been known to perform wildly differently on different computers, and much of the BoAE code is still SW-based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hunh. That's odd. I try to open the editor, and it dies. I seem to remember having this problem with GraphicAdjuster as well. It's in the right place, so I don't see what the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Lazarus. Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Is there any way you could make it so that one could turn on height labels for drawing terrain or floors in 2D mode? As it is, whenever you place a terrain all the height labels go away-- it would be nice when drawing hills if you could make them stay, especially since that's about the only thing I use 2D mode for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Ok, so I've sent the three of you the newest version. Kelandon: My computer is a 1.33 GHz G4 powerbook with 2 GB of RAM, but I also test everything on another computer, which is a 600 MHz G3 iMac with 384 MB of RAM. Both run 10.3.9. Ephesos: I can't imagine why it's crashing on you. The problem it has cannot be the same as you were having with Graphic Adjuster since both Kelandon and Dahak have gotten it to run. Maybe to new version will fix things. I sure hope. Are you still using OS 10.2 or something? That shouldn't be a problem, but who knows. Also, could you check you crash logs to see if there's any information there? Try using Console to see if there's anything in "3D Blades of Avernum Editor.crash.log" under CrashReporter under ~/Library/Logs, and let me know what you find. EDIT: Gah, why an I so slow to write posts? Somebody always gets in and post before I finish. . . Anyway, yes, i think it would be possible to make the height labels display in all modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hm. I'm running 10.4.8, PPC, 0.75 GB of RAM, 867 MHz. Edit: Graphics work fine now. What did you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Okay, this was the most important-looking bit that the crash log turned up (there was a lot): Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001) Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000000 *sigh*... tried the new one and it does the same thing. I'm still running 10.3.9, and that shouldn't mean anything. Nothing pertinent needs updating, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Dahak: I really didn't change much. I made it so that when you scroll it doesn't waste time drawing the terrain buttons on the right side. That, and a couple of really minor tweaks that I've already forgotten the details of. Ephesos: Right below the lines you found there should be a pair of stack traces. One should be labelled "Thread (0 or 1) Crashed" can you get me the numbered lines directly below that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Yeah, that seems to have fixed it. It scrolls much faster now. Since it works, I'm not going to question why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Thralni Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Somebody mentioned height labels earlier, and it got me to think the folowing: Woulnd't it be nice to know what the exact height of terrain is, also in the 3D view? I often make mistakes with this, which results in enormous irritation. If you could make that, I would be extremely thankfull. I would have tested, but a week of exams has started. If it is still needed by then, I can start testing by next tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Pyrulen Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I think that a 'test' option which immediately loaded your scenario using the default party at a designated location would be useful. Presumably, to return to the editor you could press escape. I often find it a chore to reload the game or re-enter the town every time I want to study the effect of a small modification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 I'm afraid that this is probably not possible. There's no way to make BoA itself do much of anything, I could have the editor launch it, but nothing more; there's no conceivable way to make it load a party or a scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 *bump* So I've implemented a couple of final features: -Added 'Change Town Size' function for changing the size of an existing town -Made the 3D editing area the same size as in BoA itself -Added a toggle to set whether height labels are displayed in all drawing modes when in 2D view mode, or just in height mode Would those of you who tested before mind trying out (hopefully) one last version? Assuming that all goes well in testing I will declare the Mac version ready and release it. Then I'll just have to find the right software to get the Windows version to compile so I can work on that. The Windows source code comes as a neatly set up project, does anyone know what IDE works with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Niemand:Would those of you who tested before mind trying out (hopefully) one last version? Send it my way and I'll look at it. As I recall, the original goal of the first re-make was to implement a palette system for placing items and creatures (like what exists for floors and terrains, or, better, what Notus was trying to do ). How difficult would that be to implement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I'll be more than happy to give it another shot, though I still have no idea why it was been screwed up before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Kernel Knowledge was the coordinator of the Windows compilation. I e-mailed him and he said that it was done on KDevelop, a Linux program. (Address: chrono232@fastmail.fm ) So far I have not been able to compile it on Dev-C++ or Borland, I think that is due to language specific features. What we really need is source that can be compiled on common Windows compilers so people can experiment with their favorite new ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 Testers, I sent you the newest version. Looking back over peoples' comments I noticed that they said the BoE import feature was broken, and I also find it to be. I haven't been able to fix it yet as the problem is somewhat unpredictable. It has to do with writing the quote characters in script files, but some of them write correctly while others just don't. I'll try to fix it, but since this isn't a feature most people are using very often and it can be done using the original editor, it won't be my highest priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Dahak Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Actually, the original editor doesn't import either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Woohoo! The editor suddenly decided to start working again! I can actually test it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 Ephesos: I can't describe how happy I am that it's working again. That issue was driving me crazy because I couldn't figure out what to do about it. Apparently, waiting was the answer. Dahak: Really? That's odd; I just ported VotD successfully using Jeff's editor, version 1.1. However, see the next point: I think I've been able to solve, or at least work around the problem with porting BoE scenarios. I order to generate many of the files, the editor has to print out strings containing " characters. Obviously since these denote string constants in C code, you can't put one into a string constant. Jeff's solution was to use ~ characters instead, and have a piece of code that replaces them with " characters. The chunk of code was very short, simple, and logical, and I still can't understand why it wasn't working. But it wasn't. However, I realized that there is a very standard and obvious solution to the quotes-within-a-string problem: escape sequences. (There was much forehead smacking for not thinking of this sooner.) I initially wondered if there was some reason that these wouldn't work here, since they specifically hadn't been used, but they do work just like always, and I can now port VotD without the program crashing. /technical ramble. Also, I've gotten the Windows editor running using Dev-C++, so I'm beginning the process of catching it up with the Mac version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 By Niemand: Quote: However, I realized that there is a very standard and obvious solution to the quotes-within-a-string problem: escape sequences. (There was much forehead smacking for not thinking of this sooner.) Heh. Don't you just love days like that? I find thinking out loud helps. Especially in the vincinity of people who can help you. -------------------- Talking to your computer is not a sign of insanity. Hearing your computer respond, however, is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk The Loquacious Lord Grimm Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Quote: Originally written by Niemand: Also, I've gotten the Windows editor running using Dev-C++, so I'm beginning the process of catching it up with the Mac version. -------------------- The Silent Assassin is having trouble getting a part-time job as cover for his latest job. I believe that this is partially due to the fact that he will not remove "blowing stuff up" from his list of major skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Um, for the record, there was a time when the import feature worked. Both TM and I can attest to that. I haven't tried it recently, but it worked at one point. And by "worked," I mean "sucked," but nonetheless functioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 The import function really needs to be customized for each individual scenario. Currently it is based upon a plain vanilla default scenario with no custom terrain, items or monsters. If Niemand can create a Windows 3D Editor that can be compiled on common IDEs then porting should really take off. Even now you can customize the translations with discrete hex editing. A lot of the special node translation routines are not accurate representations of what the BoE Editor help file says about the nodes. Here customization can really help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 Quote: . . . create a Windows 3D Editor that can be compiled on common IDEs If you want to compile it yourself, get the newest version of Dev-C++. Quote: A lot of the special node translation routines are not accurate representations of what the BoE Editor help file says about the nodes. Here customization can really help. Which ones? From a cursory inspection of the BoE Editor docs and the BoA Editor code, I don't see any significant differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Here I did a three - way check: comparing the BoE Editor Help file with the Bl A Fileio.c source file and the BoA Editor documentation. I have not finished work on the list of routines that are apparently not correctly translated. As I recall there were a few problems with horses and boats&. Then certain calls had the wrong number of arguments&&. Then there were a few punctuation problems. The list is at home. As for compiling the 3D Editor, I will have to download the latest version and see what happens. I tried it on last year's version of Dev-C++ and couldn't compile anything at all. This was using the 3D source as downloaded, there were no modifications of mine that I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 *Bump* Beta-testers of the Mac version: I haven't heard from any of you in a while; which I assume to mean everything is well. If not, let me know, because I want to get the Mac version released publicly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 All is indeed well. Undoing and redoing works well, everything seems to display properly, and nothing seems to be crashing. One feature I can't remember anyone talking about (ignore me if someone else brought it up) was fixing the Add Random Items menu item, which just treated everything like you gave it a 100% probability of being added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Lazarus. Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Yeah, that was pretty freaking lame. I didn't even think of that. Oh, and clear all items is broken as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Edit Item Placement Shortcuts in the Scenario menu allows you to decide the percentage chance of each item occurring in a given type of terrain. This is what the Add Random items command in the Town menu actually executes. That is why the latter is so set - piece, the choosing actually takes place elsewhere. A good idea is to shift the Edit Item Placement Shortcuts command to the Town menu, just above the Add Random Items command. Niemand, have you actually tried to compile the 3D source code on Dev-C++? I did and got 11 major errors, hence there was nothing compiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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