Death to Anama!!!

[Chief Spider watching The Simpsons]

That extremist cult just gets in the way of everything! Reject magic, bah! To what end? No wonder they couldn't purge those weakling cockroaches.

 

But they can't even handle living by their own principles! They use piercing crystals and a little spell many of us know as DIVINE FIRE! So there's really no Anama who fully lives by his own doctrine, only "cafeteria Anama," like wanabe "Catholic" politicians

 

Nobody really needed four secret agents of Avernum to go up and exterminate the cockroaches, if they would just bite their tounges and cast a few Far Sights around the island, finding the source and destroying the feeble machinery that kept the "plague" going. No, they had it easiest of all, but they would not only not take advantage of it, but they stifled anyone else using mage spells, trying to make a difference. And whoever wasn't a part of their hippy "peace and love" and "let's not just get bitten by weakling bugs, but let's do it TOGETHER while coughing and wheezing pathetically" majority, for that matter.

 

I stole the Anama's treasure. I bought fake rings to invade their inner sanctum. I responded "No" to the priests philosophy questions around the island. I don't regret it.

 

Oh, and you know that beggar in "Backwater Calls" who keeps saying, "reject magic! The end is coming!" Well, I blasted him with a level 10 Arcane Blow spell just for the heck of it.

[Thralni]

Now calm down chief spider. tell me. How did you get to steal the treasure when answering "no" all the time, what fake ring are you talking about and who the hell is the beggar? I also don't really like the anama, but I said yes to the questions because I didn't wan to upset them by saying their beliefs are crap!

[Ash Lael]

You are in so much trouble when Drakey sees this.

[Swimmin' Salmon]

Doesn't this actually belong in the Avernum Trilogy forum? I mean, if it truly belongs anywhere, it shouldn't be here.

 

Now to go and actually read the first three posts....

 

*this message supports good behaviour while Drakey is on vacation*

[Thralni]

Quote:

Originally written by Ash Lael:
You are in so much trouble when Drakey sees this.

Yes I know. I tought he was mainly a Vahnatai fan, wasn't he? But don't TRY even to convince me that the Anama say crap (if i would join them and therefor lose my mage spells, I would be powerless).

[Aran]

Cryptic comment of the day:

 

We really need to get that new RP started... ^__________^

[spy-there]

Quote:

Originally written by Ash Lael:
You are in so much trouble when Drakey sees this.

O_O Drakey is Anama fan? Hm, I bet this is only compromising gossip

t Spider: The fact that the Anama annoyed you was well worth their invention, non? And are they not a perfect satire on America's christian hardliners?

[Micawber]

Nonsense!

 

Joining the Anama is one of the greatest features of E3/A3. It's a useful way to max out your priest skills early in the game. This increases your ability to bless and heal your all-important fighters, which is the only function of magical PCs anyway. The only remotely useful thing you lose by joining the Anama is the haste spell, but (in E3 at least) the Anama rings prevent you from getting slowed too often and hyperactivity does the rest.

 

Thralnai: the fake rings can be bought from the guild in Lorelei.

[*i]

Totally the wrong forum for this.

[Dark Mage]

I think that joining the anama has much more sense in exile, because in avernum the offensive priest spells have been almost completely removed, in exile still is a LOT of good priest spells like curse all, ravage enemy,the great divine thud, the avatar, martyr shield(very funny but not that useful) and all the others that i forgot, and of course the incredible and awesome wound spell that just cant be resisted.

in a3 yhe only thing is the divine fire, aall demons and a lot of creatures are INMUNE to fire!

the smite is somewhat useful buit too weak, still better in a3 that in a1.and the divine retribution is great, but it can be resisted and only works in the living.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

often i join the anama, but only after leaving my mages in a character-deposit-whatever. then, i get them back. that way, i keep my mage powers, but have strong priests for free, too.

[Chief Spider watching The Simpsons]

Yes, I know it probably belongs on the Trilogy boards. But I was going to start out with the beggar in Sattle from "Backwater Calls," then I went into a full-fledged rant against the Anama to offend a few and entertain the rest.

 

Thanks to whoever moved it here.

[Aran]

Quote:

Originally written by chicho:
I think that joining the anama has much more sense in exile, because in avernum the offensive priest spells have been almost completely removed, in exile still is a LOT of good priest spells like curse all, ravage enemy,the great divine thud, the avatar, martyr shield(very funny but not that useful) and all the others that i forgot, and of course the incredible and awesome wound spell that just cant be resisted.
in a3 yhe only thing is the divine fire, aall demons and a lot of creatures are INMUNE to fire!
the smite is somewhat useful buit too weak, still better in a3 that in a1.and the divine retribution is great, but it can be resisted and only works in the living.

Actually, I would say it makes more sense in the Avernum Trilogy for that reason - when the Priest spells are just about as destructive as the Mage spells, then what is the point of rejecting one of them?

Chief Spider, did you seriously try to troll by ranting against a fictional religion? My my, what a funny place the world has become...

[Drakefyre]

The Anama have been unfairly victimized and slandered for decades. Shame on you for continuing this hate speech.

 

Also, I <3 Avatar.

[nikki.]

Quote:

Originally written by Drakefyre:
The Anama have been unfairly victimized and slandered for decades. Shame on you for continuing this hate speech.

"Hate speech..." Oh Drakey...!

I think the Anama are okay. That's all. I joined when I played Exile, because Avatar was incredible, but in Avernum I felt slightly cheated. Being a big fan of Haste level 3, I didn't want to forfiet my mage. And I felt that stowing her away in Fort Emergence was too much like cheating.

I can see the for and against points to their argument, but as far as I can see, magic saved their lives. Was not the Phoneix Egg magically made (by Vahnatai, if Purgat... the mage man's words are to be listened to)?

No, if the Anama really existed, I would not join.

[Dark Mage]

Quote:

Originally written by Aranfoolcaytar:

Quote:

Originally written by chicho:
I think that joining the anama has much more sense in exile, because in avernum the offensive priest spells have been almost completely removed, in exile still is a LOT of good priest spells like curse all, ravage enemy,the great divine thud, the avatar, martyr shield(very funny but not that useful) and all the others that i forgot, and of course the incredible and awesome wound spell that just cant be resisted.
in a3 yhe only thing is the divine fire, aall demons and a lot of creatures are INMUNE to fire!
the smite is somewhat useful buit too weak, still better in a3 that in a1.and the divine retribution is great, but it can be resisted and only works in the living.

Actually, I would say it makes more sense in the Avernum Trilogy for that reason - when the Priest spells are just about as destructive as the Mage spells, then what is the point of rejecting one of them?

well im talking only in the game, being just that. why we should adopt the anama like a philosophy for our life, or our way to play avernum?

[Icshi]

I agree wholeheartedly with Chief Spider. I looted then cooked just about everyone on the island after I saved them from the cockroach plague. They were a condescending, rich cult opposing the wonders of magic. They were just asking to be robbed and killed!

 

However, before you jump to any conclusions, I should hasten to add that eliminating the plague wasn't a humanitarian endeavour on my part, I was just curious to see this Filth Factory and blow the hootin' daylights outta that as well.

 

I am however a conscientioius philanthropist, as I staunchly opposed the skribbane scourge and destroyed the drug trade in Gale after saving them from the golems. It became necessary to destroy the people of Gale in order to save them from themselves...

[Alorael at Large]

The basic tenets of the Anama aren't so wrong, although they take it to extremes. Magic is dangerous in the hands of people like Rentar-Ihrno, countless insane necromancers, demonologists, and the odd Jordan/Bojar. A more careful licensing system and tracking of all wands, crystals, alembics, and other paraphernalia of the mage would go a long way.

 

The rest of the crazy Anama cultism is just cultism. Cults are bad even when they control entire islands and have fancy churches.

 

—Alorael, who wasn't willing to give up Major Blessing for Avatar. Having a large party will do that.

[Dark Mage]

i remember that time ago i was playing e3, it was the shareware so for playing it as much as i could i join the anama. i lost all of my mage, but i won some nice priest spells.but later on for some reason i started making mages again, i had 3 mages so the 3 could be priests and mages, the weird thing is that i kept my anama rings, they angry me but i still could enter the inner sanctrum and the hidden spellbooks that were supossed to the true members.

anyway after that i robed them and i killed everyone in shayder

[Suspicious Vlish]

As someone who used an all-mage party, I found the Anama's preachings insulting and arrogant. I decimated them, and stole their treasure.

[Ash Lael]

The Anama make life way too easy. You can have 6 level 1 priest/fighters casting Avatar before every combat in Exile.

[Chief Spider watching The Simpsons]

Of course, I agree with Friendly Whomp. People use magic stupidly, or evily, but it's not bad (well, since it's not real). Like by Rentar, that was a good point.

 

By the way, I heard that some other people had killed her in other ways before, but I did it too. I did Major Poison to her over and over, using the editor to restore Spell Points, doing 1 to 2 damage at a time (sometimes 3!). Has anyone else done it in some other way?

[PantherShadow]

Quote:

Originally written by Justice by Trial and Error:
The basic tenets of the Anama aren't so wrong, although they take it to extremes. Magic is dangerous in the hands of people like Rentar-Ihrno, countless insane necromancers, demonologists, and the odd Jordan/Bojar. A more careful licensing system and tracking of all wands, crystals, alembics, and other paraphernalia of the mage would go a long way.

Yeah, but if only good people control magic, then adventurers everywhere would be out of jobs. Unless you really like the courier jobs, in which case, have at it!

On a similar note, my party uses magic for, shall we say, less-than-noble purposes. I kinda have the attitude of, "If I can steal it and get away with it, I will, because ultimately I am the only thing that stands between these people and their untimely demise."

[Alorael at Large]

If only good people could use magic, adventurers would be reduced to hunting down nonmagical brigands and baddies, rampaging beasts, evil priests, and politicians.

 

—Alorael, who finds that use of magic entirely reasonable. If shopkeepers won't give you a potion at cost so that you can dispatch the Terrible Hordes of Darkness, they deserve to experience some literal robbery themselves.

[:Slash:]

Sure, the Anama suck. But they've got a point. Magic is way to dangerous for just about anyone to learn and use. At the very least they should not let anyone use magic without proper tutoring. Although this might lead to some of the chaos portrayed in the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan.

 

Anyway, I was too moral to rob the Anama. I just didn't join them(well, once, when I had a four-priest party).

[Icshi]

I've played through Avernum 3 several times, each with a different approach to the game. I joined the Anama once just to see what it was like, but after struggling quite a bit, I chucked it in and revoked my membership. It made me unwelcome on the island, but I was done there anyway.

[ixfd64]

Sorry for bumping this up, but the Anama are hypocrites. Shouldn't Priest SPELLS still be considered magic? Oh, and the "items crafted through holy powers" and whatnot still belong in the Magic category.

 

Oh, and if you rob their tmple, they use Quickfire as defense. And what's that? A MAGIC spell!

[lightningmaster2016]

No, they probably paid a mage to set up that Quickfire trap. After all, that they can't do it doesn't mean nobody else can.

[Radix Malorum Est Cupiditas]

that "payed a mage" idea is all very nice except there was another topic called "in the sewers of shaydar" where someone showed that the anama kill all mages they don't like which would be all mages except the ones in your party (as you are a potential convert).

[Alorael at Large]

The Anama presumably has a way of manufacturing all the items that cast spells that they have for say. If they can make Piercing Crystals, I don't see why they couldn't make a Phoenix Egg and rig a trap with it.

 

—Alorael, who remembers seeing somewhere that the Anama leadership is willing to tolerate mages even though they're evil incarnate. It's the rank and file that periodically has mage lynchings.

[Icshi]

The nearest analogy I can think of is Orthodox Jews hiring gentiles to do work for them on the Sabbath. You know, cooking, cleaning—

 

Work is a terrible sin on the Sabbath, but it's gentiles doing it so it's all right...

[Suspicious Vlish]

Quote:

If they can make Piercing Crystals, I don't see why they couldn't make a Phoenix Egg and rig a trap with it.

Because in Anama moron land, Dispel Barrier is magic, whereas Piercing Crystals are not.

In fact, it makes me wonder whether the Anama's faith is actually a disguise for money making. Once a mage learns a spell, that's it. However, an Anama member has to keep coming back to buy Piercing Crystals, Potions, Herbs, etc.

Something smells fishy...

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by ixfd64:
Sorry for bumping this up,

Yes you are. We really didn't need to see this again.

[Alorael at Large]

The Anama don't object to magic, per se. They object to mages specifically because mages have such potential to cause death and destruction. (Fireblast, Smite, and Divine Retriibution don't count, apparently). Wands might be discouraged for much the same reasons but not banned outright.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with magic items, and there is no harm to be caused by dispelling barriers. In the same way, while a Phoenix Egg is desstructive, it isn't in the hands of a mage so it probably passes muster.

 

—Alorael, who would put the Anama's beliefs down as nonsensica" rather than greedy. Their purpose isn't selling magic items. Those are more of a workaround for those who absolutely must have magical effects, which doesn't include the vast majority of Valorim's inhabitants.

[Chief Spider watching The Simpsons]

That's what makes them such blasted hypocrites. They use movements that use up spell points that do damage or otherwise aid in combat to a lesser extent than sorcerers do. It seems that "magic" to them is how hard the damage is applied. The stupid Pharisees.

[Erika Maroonmark]

Yeah... if you compare the spells Light and Flamestrike... >_>;;;

[Chief Spider watching The Simpsons]

That's E2 and E3. But if you want to get into that, there's Wound, Curse All, Holy Scourge, Divine Thud, Avatar, Revive All...

[Bomber]

I know how to join the Anama after you steal their tresure.

[Chief Spider watching The Simpsons]

I don't care.

 

Listen to this:

 

"This city was a magical center before the Anama came to Bigail. Much powerful spellcraft took place here. Then the Anama came, and suddenly OUR SUPPLY SHIPMENTS STARTED 'DISAPPEARING.'"

 

-Purgatos, only human survivor of Kneece

[Synergy]

I'm rather wondering how the traditional roles and spells for mages and priests were established, because the two do not seem very cleanly dilineated. I am assuming most of the currently accepted spells for each come from D&D? If I were designing a world of magical users, i'd make priests truly limited to dealing with healing and shielding and other defensive spells (which would include repelling the dead).

 

I'd make mages for aggressive/harmful spells only, and a third class of some sort for manipulating the forces of nature: call beast, far sight, move mountains, dispel barriers, weather spells, light, etc. I'm not terribly impressed with the mix-n-match spell assignment which seems to have gone from D&D tradition into RPG law.

 

EDIT: I'm just talking about which category spells get divided into, not that a PC should have to be forced to only specialize in one set.

[Alorael at Large]

As far as I'm concerned, any caster that isn't equally adept at mage and priest skills is defective.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't really mean that. There are characters who aren't wholly focused on casting too, and they can pick one or the other. There also might be a one or two point difference. But all mage or priest? That's a serious character flaw.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Quote:

But all mage or priest? That's a serious character flaw.

Why? Specialization = Power.

[Lilith]

The thing is that since the skill point costs of skills increase as your rank in those skills increase, getting Mage or Priest above 17 gives only very small incremental advantages per skill point spent, and it's fairly easy to get both of them to 17. A character with Mage of 17, Priest of 17 and Intelligence of 15 is a lot more useful than a character with Mage of 20, Priest of 0 and Intelligence of 22, despite the two costing roughly similar amounts of skill points.

 

There comes a point when a skill is effectively maxed out and putting more skill points into it is a waste -- sure, you can do it, but you're usually much better off putting the same number of skill points into a skill that you can build up from zero to high than building up a skill from very high to slightly higher.

[Erika Maroonmark]

At the beginning, though, you want your casters to have as many spell points in a given area as possible, so that they can learn a good number of spells. (In Exile, if your mage was at level 3, they would start out knowing Fireball {which is a pretty good reason to give them 3 mage spell points }, but I don't think there's any real parallel to that; I think it's just more spells and the game counts you as more "skilled" when learning new spells or levels of them. Later, though, when you've accumulated a lot of experience points, I guess it would be a pretty good idea to start giving characters other types of spells. It might come in handy for huge boss fights to have two guys who can cast Mass Healing so that you can do it twice in one cycle, or two guys who can cast massive, offensive, arcane blasts (MOAB's *giggles*), for that matter, depending on what you have to do at a certain point.