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Lord Sylak

A4 wants

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im supprised noboy's started this already, or if someoen has, i appologize. Ok, what do YOU wnat to see in A4? me? id liek to see Crystal Spears like the ones in the end of Nethergate.

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Ephesos   

There have been numerous threads about this sort of thing... Jeff has even promised it on the main Spidweb website.

 

Really, I don't think it'll happen. Ever. After all, Blades is already inspiring so many sideline plots (not to mention ones that build off of A1-3) that an attempt at A4 would doom many a scenario idea.

 

Although I must admit that it'd be cool to see what Jeff could do to follow up on A3... a mission to thwart the Vahnatai?

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Kelandon   

Ephesos, I think you missed something. A4 will happen; it's what Jeff is making right after he releases GF3 for Windows. The other topics have been about whether we think this is a good idea or not; this topic is about what sort of features we might like in A4.

 

I really don't know. I just want A4 to continue to look like Avernum and not look like Geneforge.

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Im not quite liking the A4 idea, but if i where to be able to choose some features:

 

Vahantai as a Playable Race

More Freeplay

Less linar

Spells- MORE!

Modify the Nephil boost with bows to be similar to the "nimble fingers" atribute

 

What would be neat, is a Prologe to the Avernum/Exile, where you play the Explorers sent by the empire.

or

A "spinoff" where you are the an Empire Detatchment for the Empire/Avernum War in A2

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Rupert   

I think that an update on some spells would be useful. Some of them were just... so pointless.

 

I think if it went along the style of A2's plot, it might be interesting. I always liked how while there were set individual chapters, there was alot of non-linear side missions and so forth. Perhaps, instead of just a fairly straight main linear quest, such as in A3, it might benefit A4 to make more out of side missions and get back to having at least three main missions.

 

A3's gameplay may have been an improvement on A1's, but the storyline, even ignoring the plot, with how you were able to go after your missions, in A1, certainly trumped A3's.

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Ephesos   

Okay, I stand corrected, though I still have my doubts as to when it'll come out.

 

I just don't want to see another "stop these plagues" story. They're interesting, but get old quickly (you can only kill so many roaches before you get bored).

 

EDIT: I forgot.... bring back Beast Ceremony!!!

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Ok, so the thing about the A2, I LOVED the chapters, it was so completly random! You could drop the whole "adventuring" thing and go fight stuff, or loot pillage and burn!

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I disagree about the graphics. Since Jeff promises a new engine, I'd like to see new graphics that go with it that aren't as ugly as Avernum's current set.

 

Since it's a new engine, I don't have any specific mechanical changes in mind. Having the engine avoid real-time bits like Geneforge would be a plus.

 

—Alorael, who would also like a decent plot and more interesting and tactically challenging combat. And he would like the game to be fun instead of boring. Are there any more generalization to throw around?

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I'd much rather play RPG's like KOTOR or morrowind, but sometimes when i'm bored I usually play avernum alittle bit. I'd like the games to be more..uh, well i guess with geneforge's ongoing game, not where you move then the enemy moves style, but I dislike geneforge's graphics and gameplay. So a combination, I guess would be cool.

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Ephesos   

Why on earth would it need an editor? That's Blades!

 

Oh yeah, it'd be great to see a few of the half-finished promises of A3 be fully realized. After all, "buying a house" should mean having more than one option. Not to say that Hawke's Manse wasn't cool, but it'd be nice to have a house where my equipment didn't start disappearing at random.

 

Also, true open-endedness would entail being able to join the dark side, correct? Thus, A3 should've allowed you to join Rentar's army, or (even better) get all of Avernum's forces to cooperate with the Vahnatai.

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Well, you might like the Avernum 4 game better. So if you wanted to make something which requires the changes Avernum 4 will bring about, you'd need a new editor.

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Kelandon   

A4 won't have a scenario editor. Jeff has said that he won't make another game with a scenario editor for several years at the least.

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id like to see beast ceremony back, too, along with wound and area-based single-shot spells.

 

i think avernums engine is totally fine. improvement, however, is always good - if it really is an improvement. geneforge, imo, was none.

 

i could become friends with a real-time avernum, but not in the geneforge style. a little world of warcraft-flair would be cool.

 

what i have always pledged for is the possibility to choose not only all the races, but political side and the like too.

 

the greatest thing would be a multiplayer-avernum.... where you can talk through your characters, have adventure love stories and stuff like that laugh

you know beside the single-player plot-based version, like ultima/wow.

or do whole thing similar to diablo.

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Quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:
A4 won't have a scenario editor. Jeff has said that he won't make another game with a scenario editor for several years at the least.
That's puzzling. BOE and BOA are his greatest successes in my point of view.

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games like boa consume a lot of his power and integrity as a game-maker. its like letting a child move into its own apartment...

the engine is his, but the scenarios are not of his making.

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*i   
Quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:
I really don't know. I just want A4 to continue to look like Avernum and not look like Geneforge.
Dream on.

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Kelandon   

Oh god, if he makes Avernum with a GF-like engine, I may never buy another Spiderweb product.

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Ephesos   
Quote:
Originally written by Rent-an-Ihrno:
the greatest thing would be a multiplayer-avernum.... where you can talk through your characters, have adventure love stories and stuff like that laugh
you know beside the single-player plot-based version, like ultima/wow.
or do whole thing similar to diablo.
Okay, how would that one work? This isn't exactly an online-play-friendly game... you'd need an über-sprawling world like Valorim, and tons of endless monster plagues. (Which I am personally sick of, I'm not sure about everyone else)

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Quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:
A4 won't have a scenario editor. Jeff has said that he won't make another game with a scenario editor for several years at the least.
That made me laugh. As if having a kid wasn't enough trouble. smile

In any case... I would say I'd like to see some of the legitimate, large-sized imperial cities, but I also realize that this is really difficult to do convincingly since it requires a lot of filler as well as about a week per town. Although maybe one absolutely monsterous city with a bunch of quests or series of quests within it would be interesting.

I'm actually not that much of a fan of the Vahnatai PC idea. It seemed to me what made the Vahnatai interesting was the fact that they were an alien entity. Being able to be familiar enough to play as them seems to make them lose their specialness.

I'd like to see an appearence of mass-hasting return. What Jeff did with that in Blades of Avernum made magery seem a little underpowered in my opinion, although I can see how it opens up more options for scenario designers. I suppose spell-wise I'd like to see all the spells that have been cycled in and out of the trilogy so far appear. After that - well, part of the fun is the surprise, so I'll leave that up to him.

In terms of plot, either a prequel or... not epilogue, but plot feeding on what happens in the somewhat distant future would be interesting.

You know what might be neat? There are all these caves all over the world, and no one's ever explored all of them or how deep they go. Perhaps some sort of journey to the center of the Earth, although that is a little cliche.

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Quote:
Originally written by Rent-an-Ihrno:
games like boa consume a lot of his power and integrity as a game-maker. its like letting a child move into its own apartment...
the engine is his, but the scenarios are not of his making.
Which is the whole point. I believe a lot of the scenarios are way better than ones Jeff could make. Just my opinion, though.

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i think if there were REAL differences between the choosable races, the vahnatai could keep their uniqueness.

you know, like diablo or something. other spells, some other skills and traits, etc. (referring to all the choosable races, of course. like the sliths would get more out of each point in strength and have better spear- and priestskills, like being able to enchant a slith spear, etc)

what an idea. skills for melee and bow. double swing or something.

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Part of Spidweb games' appeal is that you can turn your characters into anything as they level up. Getting stuck in a race-class track from character creation would make that boring. Races could have a few minor abilities added like some traits do more than just alter numbers, but anything more restrictive would make races less fun to me, not more.

 

—Alorael, who also would rather see more reason to decide whether or not to include various races in a party. If nephilim are attacked on sight in a large area but the nephilim will only welcome you if you have one in your party, you have a real decision to work with instead of number manipulation.

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Ephesos   

Now that could be interesting... I can see slith having a fire fixation (divine fire-esque... gotta keep the holy element), nephilim focusing on summoning, and humans focusing on ... whatever's left. I don't know quite how it'd work, but it would definitely be cool.

 

On the other hand, programming 40 unique spells per species (well, minus the standbys like healing and Light) would be a living nightmare for anyone.

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i didnt mean that picking a race means picking a class, of course.

 

a more complicated political situation between all the races would certainly make that point more interesting.

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@avernum master: we did. read through the topic before posting.

 

@toenail: i came up with that back when exile 3 was relatively new, but nobody listened :rolleyes:

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If it means anything, I've been dying to play as vahnatai ever since Exile 2. That would, I think, be the logical next choice if any races are added as playable. I doubt they would be, though, just because it really would necessitate making the differences between races actually significant, instead of limited to minor bonuses and small, irrelevent special encounters. Anyway, though, the humans, nephil, and slith all have a lot more in common than any do with the vahnatai (life span alone is a huge cultural gap), and there are reasons that would make implementing them difficult, such as being greatly harmed by sunlight. But if they WERE implemented, they would have some truly awesome bonuses AND drawbacks, which would make things very interesting.

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Dime   
Quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:
A4 won't have a scenario editor. Jeff has said that he won't make another game with a scenario editor for several years at the least.
Where is the info about A4 other than it is going to be made? I can't find it anywhere...

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I'd like to see something like a "World of Avernum", where you can explore the other provinces questing and solving problems, solving civil wars...the possibilites are endless. I'd also like to see more spells, and more classes like instead of having summoning spells with magic, make a summoner type character. I'd also like to see the ability to create some of your own items like going out getting iron/mith/even adamant ore from some mine then brining it to a smelter then you could be able to make armor and weapons with the iron/mith/adamant. And even better have the ability to enchant weapons with some high level spells like enchant a sword with 2-8 fire damage per hit, or 3-5 ice damage with a chilled effect, etc.

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Holy Monkey, while that is a good idea, it just wont happen. "World of Avernum"? I suppose you could travel to slith and nephil lands, but you'd have to completely steal World Warcraft's idea.

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Ugh I haven't even played World of warcraft, I just thought it would be an appropriate name. And the only places I really wanted to see are the other Empire provinces not really all the slith and nephil lands and such. I don't see how adding the other provinces would require a real-time 3d engine. It could be done with blades of exile even, but it would just take alot of time to make.

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Kelandon   
Quote:
Originally written by Dimebag:
Where is the info about A4 other than it is going to be made? I can't find it anywhere...
The thread called "Avernum 4" and the summary of evidence -- but as I noted in that thread, he has said very little about A4 except that it will have a new engine. He said that he wasn't going to make a game with a scenario editor for a while in the BoA Wrap Report.

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*i   

It will also integrate a lot of the aspects of the Geneforge engine. I just hope it will still be purely turn based.

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1) More spells both priest and mage.

2) An improved alchemy system.

3) A crafting skill where you get to make items.

4) An option to do large scale strategic combat--

when a group of NPCs join your party for example in battle you can command portions of them to do certain things. Possibly, a strategy element added.

5) Greater flexibility in combat. The ability to pull special moves when you advance in skill level to certain points. Charging, all out attacks, total defense, etc.

6) At high levels -- leadership points. After level 50. The ability to persuade NPCs to do things.

7) An improved system for dealing with traps-- tool use simply does not cut it very well.

8) An improved inventory control system with more slots.

9) An improved dialog editor.

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Quote:
Originally written by Toenail has BEATEN E3:
I've always wondered what's in that land behind Blackcrag...
Most likely Pralgrad, another continent, and the one where the capital is.

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Jeff surely will find out what game features will please us.

 

I'm just concerned about the new engine: I really hope it will still be turn-based. I've only played Geneforge demos for 10 minutes and uninstalled. If A4 goes the same way as Geneforge, then I won't buy it.

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Kelandon   
Quote:
Originally written by Overwhelming:
Jeff surely will find out what game features will please us.
This made me laugh.

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Although his games don't have all features that pleases us, it has enough features to make us buy them, enjoy them and even be active forum members!

 

Give him some credit. And have some hope.

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Jeff is known and infamous for ignoring players' wishes when it comes to Blades, BoE especially. I'm not sure how much of a problem it is when the beta testers give their input on the non-Blades games, but Jeff still has a bad reputation for it.

 

He may make fun games by shooting blindly when designing features, but that doesn't mean he can't do better.

 

—Alorael, who would still rather see something innovative rather than window dressing on the old system. Something as good as the better parts of the Exile to Nethergate (to Avernum) engine switch would be very nice. (Something like the switch to the Geneforge engine would not be.)

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Another little something that would be interesting in A4 is the pants/shirt dialoge. When you go to "info" on pants, it says stuff about if you don't wear your pants you will be excluded from most social circles. It would be interesting if your people didn't wear any pants and you go into a tavern and a special message comes up saying, "You walk into the tavern, pantless. Many people scream. They all quickly exit". I know that sounds weird, but it would just kinda be funny.

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Actually, that fits into my idea. Even though I doubt this will ever happen because Jeff's company is too small and it would take too much time, I'd like a realistic system added to this. Have you ever played Morrowind? That game I believe has revolutionized the gaming industry.

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i think it would be interesting if npcs reacted to the looks of your characters. for example, a townguard would let you in if you have a beautiful, half-naked woman with you. you get my meaning.

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