Should you train abilities past 1?

[CandyShmann]

Ive been playing the Geneforge saga and im on G5 right now. I am wondering what the effect is on training abilities past level 1, example like kill or major heal or Daze or Create Thahd. 

 

Does anyone know the increased effect for level 1,2,3,4 etc? I sometimes find im very short on gold, especially in G4 or G5 as they have effectively made most items worthless for looting.

I am not interested in guides on how to earn more gold, but rather just the effect of leveling abilities past 1. I assume it has diminishing effects but i would like to know definitively if possible. 

I hope this question was clear. Thanks for taking time to read and especially if you can help me out. 

[TheKian]

Spell abilities gain an additional bonus per level in the ability, and I do not know of any diminishing effects. In the case of firebolt, the base effect value is 4, and each additional level adds 3, so it gives a significant bonus for each additional level. For kill, the base is 40 and each level adds 10, so level 3 kill versus level 1 would give a 50% bonus. Every spell is sufficiently improved by additional levels in it that investing in training them is worth it.

 

For creations, each level in the creation skill gives +1 base level to the creation. The most important bonus for creation skills is, however, the improved version of the creation you unlock at level 3. If you don't care about the improved version of the creation it doesn't really matter unless you want to max out your creations as much as possible.

[CandyShmann]

Thank you !! 😃

[alhoon]

Actually it's not a "3" but a +1-3. 

 

Furthermore it's not as great a bonus because other things get in the way. 

 

For the Firebolt example, if you have battle magic 3, spellcraft 2 and firebolt 1, you have already 6 levels. So, firebolt 2 is not +100%. 

What matters for spells is the TOTAL of the ability, I think. Whether you get to level 10 of firebolt through battle magic, spellcraft or firebolt proficiency it's the same. 

 

For spells like daze, open, etc level is very important as the success or fail chance is based on it. For firebolt, kill, etc not so much. You get a little more damage. For spells like bless or regeneration aura it is also less important: you increase the duration a bit, and it's a little bit (if you have good blessing magic). 

 

Which is the reason I think cannisters or training that "improves" damaging, healing spells or auras are not much worth it. Specifically in GF5 where the amount of canisters just comes up in a couple of dialogues  and a single encounter (i.e. there's no "price to pay" for shortcuts to power) go for it. Or when you're rolling in gold and you can easily afford 700 coins to increase your ice spray damage by 1d8. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by alhoon

[Randomizer]

Having that little extra damage doesn't seem important until that one time you don't kill a monster by that little bit.  

[alhoon]

6 hours ago, alhoon said:

For spells like daze, open, etc level is very important as the success or fail chance is based on it. For firebolt, kill, etc not so much. You get a little more damage.

 

 

6 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Having that little extra damage doesn't seem important until that one time you don't kill a monster by that little bit.  

 

Touché! Randomizer is right!

That does happen and my Shaper is usually the last to act so when that happens, my creations get a few extra beatings because of those 3-10 hp. Especially pre-GF5, where creations didn't have as many hp, it wasn't that rare. 

[Vinlie]

I remember as a kid I would always spam canisters without a second thought. But NOW I've got to consider that my character will slowly and literally fall apart and have reprecussions to using the damned things. Shaper on the outside, Rebel on the inside.

[alhoon]

39 minutes ago, Vinlie said:

I remember as a kid I would always spam canisters without a second thought. But NOW I've got to consider that my character will slowly and literally fall apart and have reprecussions to using the damned things. Shaper on the outside, Rebel on the inside.

Not all rebels abuse canisters. 

 

 

[TriRodent]

(note, it's been a while since I've run through any of the GFs)

 

I tend to play as an Agent (no creations) so I can't speak on the higher level creations.  For spells I tend to stick with a smaller core of 'always use' spells & get some of them as high as possible.  The 3-4 combat spells that get heavy use, I'll probably train/use a canister on them (at least the later game combat spells, the first 3-4, probably not).  The blessing spells, probably not as they're only needed for relatively short periods of time (combat).  The 'last while you're in the area' enhancements, those will probably get trained/canisters as the return on energy expended is a good investment.  Money goes towards training for the most part (as good/better equipment usually is laying around - I may buy a weapon/armor augment (what you use on a golden forge ... as I said, been a while) that I know won't otherwise be found for quite a while).  For those that get used often it's worth the money spent/hit to canister reputation as that 'little extra' that you get for doing so tends to be worth it over time.

 

So like many things in life, if it's something that you're going to use regularly, it's probably worth spending money on to get the better quality (or in this case the higher level).  The beater I drove back & forth to college classes was fine for that, but when a real job came along, it was well worth it to get a reliable vehicle.  Etc.