lets play Playing Exile for the first time...

[ladyonthemoon]

After Ivan [Redacted] created a thread about playing old software on 64bits machines (thank you for that!), I installed Exile. I'm curious about these older games and if there are many differences, apart from the obvious, with the Avernum series, since the Exile games are the first versions of the Avernum series.

 

First I wasn't able to install them where I wanted but, after a second try, I managed.  I started Exile and I'm about to play it alternately with Avernum. Since I've started Avernum already, I'll play Exile until my party catches up with what my Avernum party has already done.

 

I tried my hand at creating a new party; it takes some getting used to but it's quite easy to do after all. The party can have six characters but I created only four that I named as they are named in Avernum (except for one who is now a woman, Edwarda) and have about the same skills.

 

Here they are:

 

 

 

 

 

Now, let's see how they are going to evolve in this new and hostile environment.

 

 

[Randomizer]

The major differences between the Exile and Avernum games are:

 

You can't drop items anywhere and have them there when you return except in a few specific containers like the inn room chest in Silvar at the start. At least NPCs will tell you where the special containers are located.

 

Exile has more and quite different spells with differences in area effect spells.

 

When you return to a dungeon, all the monsters respawn and if you kill the boss monster, then a new generic one appears with a different name.

 

You can learn a spell to recharge wands, but it has a failure chance so save before casting it.

 

Exile dialogue system lets you enter a word in addition to clicking on dialogue so you can give a specific answer to questions in some places or skip dialogue that you've seen before to speed up the game.

 

Different puzzles to get through places like Erika's Tower.

 

There are others, but I don't want to spoil all the fun of finding them.

[Warrior Mage]

Did you give a bare 6 HP to all your characters? I play Exile rarely but I give atleast 15 HP to all characters.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Warrior Mage

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Mostly true, but three corrections:

 

1. You can store items anywhere in the storage rooms, typically, not just in a particular chest.

2. Towns and dungeons will reset but only after you've visited several other different towns without returning in between. This means you can still leave a dungeon, sell loot in town, and return, without having to do it all over again.

3. Clickable dialogue was introduced in Exile 2 or 3, I can't remember which. Exile 1 does not have clickable dialogue.

[Warrior Mage]

This is the first time ever for me when forum members meet in same time and respond quickly!

[ladyonthemoon]

So far, so good. My party has had encounters in the wild but they survived and they are now at the bandits fort.

 

And now, I know what "No targetting lines" in the options means:

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[ladyonthemoon]

11 minutes ago, Warrior Mage said:

This is the first time ever for me when forum members meet in same time and respond quickly!

Yes, this is great!

 

35 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

The major differences between the Exile and Avernum games are: ... Exile has more and quite different spells with differences in area effect spells.

Weapons too; I saw maces and clubs?

 

35 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

When you return to a dungeon, all the monsters respawn and if you kill the boss monster, then a new generic one appears with a different name.

 

21 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Towns and dungeons will reset but only after you've visited several other different towns without returning in between. This means you can still leave a dungeon, sell loot in town, and return, without having to do it all over again.

That makes sense but it never really bothered me in Avernum that cleaned dungeons didn't reset.

 

35 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

You can learn a spell to recharge wands, but it has a failure chance so save before casting it.

That's interesting. What's the problem with the failure chance? Is it a bug or a "feature"?

 

35 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Exile dialogue system lets you enter a word in addition to clicking on dialogue

I haven't seen any clickable dialogue so far.

 

35 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

There are others, but I don't want to spoil all the fun of finding them.

I noticed a character in Fort Duvno that seems to have disappeared in Avernum; a woman who followed Caius, I don't remember her name.

 

21 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

You can store items anywhere in the storage rooms, typically, not just in a particular chest.

I haven't come across any chest, shelf or crate that I could open so far...

 

By the way, this game is very pleasant to play.

Edited August 2, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[ladyonthemoon]

26 minutes ago, Warrior Mage said:

Did you give a bare 6 HP to all your characters? I play Exile rarely but I give atleast 15 HP to all characters.

Understandable but I needed the points for something else.

[Randomizer]

21 minutes ago, ladyonthemoon said:

That's interesting. What's the problem with the failure chance? Is it a bug or a "feature"?

 

 

This is a feature to prevent recharging all wands to maximum charges before leaving a safe town to go off adventuring.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

You open chests and other containers by standing next to them and using the Look command with the L key. Nothing will happen if the container is empty, but if it has something in it, it will open the Get Items dialog. Also, you can place items in containers by pressing the Drop button next to the item in your inventory, and then clicking on an adjacent container.

[ladyonthemoon]

49 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

you can place items in containers by pressing the Drop button next to the item in your inventory, and then clicking on an adjacent container.

I didn't know about that, good to know!

[Ivan [Redacted]]

Numpad is the best method of movement if you get sick of clicking. The biggest advantage of top-down is that arrows and numpads don't get anywhere near as confusing as in isometric.
Also,  loot is utterly random. You never know when an enemy is just going to casually drop a super-powerful enchanted sword in the middle of a Nephil fort. Item Lore is a must, just to save the trouble of carrying trash loot and casting Identify/paying off sages constantly.

[ladyonthemoon]

Well, it's been a while since I've played last but I'm really wondering, is this game playable at all? All my characters, except the mage, miss when they shoot or try to hit. Each fight is won after reloading and reloading and I'm not sure that adding two characters would make a difference. Pity, if things don't improve I'll have to give up.

 

Remaking a party of six this time.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Melee fighters need lots of Strength and Dexterity, and the individual weapon-type skills help too. Archers need Dexterity and Bows skill, although the weight of the arrows can make archery inefficient. If you can get Regenerating Arrows or a sling, then it can be more useful. Thrown weapons users need Dexterity and Defense. Thrown Missile skill is worthless because Thrown Missiles are bugged and check for Defense instead of Thrown Missile skill. Bless and Curse statuses are incredibly helpful in Exile, and all but the most skilled players are unlikely to succeed without them. Bless and Curse status can't be emphasized enough.

Edited August 19, 2020 by The Almighty Doer of Stuff

[Hondero]

I'm just seeing the thread now but glad you are still giving it a shot! Don't give up! 

 

I've only ever played the Exile series with 6 characters, so I would say the extra two make a very very big difference. The prefab party is really not bad, but I like to have 3 fighters in the front line, 1 utility "rogue" (lightweight fighting, lock-picking, trap disarming, secondary priest spells), 1 mage, and 1 priest. My party is heavy on the fighters though ... that rogue could usually take the 3rd slot and allow for another stronger spellcaster. Some people make some exotic parties, but I really recommend having a "main" mage and priest as separate characters with a 6-person party.

 

Regarding the attacks missing, having the points in Dexterity will be a big help. 6 points should be minimum (maybe even 7/7 along with strength), and the 6 points in either Edged / Pole / Bashing should be good enough at the start too. It might be boring, but at the very start of the game, the most helpful things IMO are just a "blank slate" fighter with Dexterity, Strength, and weapons skill (and HP, but some of that can come from Strength). 

 

Unless it is for roleplaying purposes, it is usually better to stick to one type of weapon per character, not split it between Edged and Bashing. I always have a character dedicated to Bashing weapons just because I like maces and some diversity and for some RP reasons myself, even though anyone agrees that maces and flails are never as plentiful or powerful as swords in Exile. 

 

I like Defense as a skill, but you can usually buff that up as you level up early on in the game. I was just writing how useless Thrown Missiles are when Almighty beat me to it : ) Definitely echo what Almighty said about Bless, Curse, and Haste in this game. IMO, the most effective way to do well in most combat in Exile is to buff the main fighters with Bless and Haste. You will see them hitting a lot more, doing more damage, and taking a lot less in return. 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, I always have 3 fighters, 1 mage, 1 mage-priest and 1 priest.  Playing Ex1 at the mo myself, and using 1 fighter for disarming traps (doors are kicked door or have unlock cast on them).  Not bows of thrown weapons as yet.  1 fighter has bashing weapons, in case I find a cool bashing weapon, have found the odd iron or bronze mace.  Oh, everyone dual wields, except one fighter using pole.

 

And the endless wandering monsters that wear down health, and worse, magic without leaving treasure are very annoying, make just getting to the dungeon grind a grind.  Are my automaps supposed to erase themselves every so often?  Also annoying.

[Randomizer]

Fighters start out with a lower baser to hit chance than mages and most early armor has a negative to hit chance that makes it worse so read item descriptions. This is the same problem in the Avernum remakes.

 

I remember the Exile games having a wait command so a character can delay an action. In some fights that works well because the mages can use their actions to haste party members and slow the enemies at the end of the round in longer fights.

[Warrior Mage]

I too wanted to tell to use 6 characters. If you use 4, all the damage will be split into them and also your party's total HP is incredibly low! I go on with 2 fighters, a rogue, an archer, a priest and a mage. Using 4 is not bad, but you are playing exile for the first time as the title says. I too found out it as mess to fight half-a-dozen times in my first ever encounter. I tried BoE by the way.

[ladyonthemoon]

Yeah, my party of six is doing slightly better. Not being used to this game, I have troubles deciding what to make of them. I have basically three fighters: one specialised in archery, one in bash weapons and one in edged weapons. I also have a priest, a mage and an alchemist specialised in poisons and is quite able with the ... club.

 

They just killed the nephils spies in Silvar; being quite blocked on a narrow path, it's the big pole weapons user who almost made the job! The mage and the priest used support spells on him.

 

I'm feeling better now thanks for your advice all!

Edited August 19, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[ladyonthemoon]

13 hours ago, ladyonthemoon said:

They just killed the nephils spies in Silvar;

By the way, I haven't found what word to use to tell the woman that her "noises" problem was solved; anybody remembers what word triggers her answer?

[Thaluikhain]

20 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Fighters start out with a lower baser to hit chance than mages and most early armor has a negative to hit chance that makes it worse so read item descriptions. This is the same problem in the Avernum remakes.

 

Lower base to hit?  Not sure what you mean, unless you mean it's easier to zap people with magic then hitting them with stone weapons, which is true, yeah.  Not noticed armour giving a negative to hit chance.

 

20 hours ago, Randomizer said:

I remember the Exile games having a wait command so a character can delay an action. In some fights that works well because the mages can use their actions to haste party members and slow the enemies at the end of the round in longer fights.

 

Not exactly, hasting a PC takes effect next turn, so waiting doesn't help with that, but OTOH, there is a wait command and I use it all the time to do stuff like hitting a group of enemies with a fireball and then sending the fighters to hit the survivors.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

If you have your fighters wait while your spellcasters Bless and Haste them, they can close the gap to the enemies more easily the next turn, instead of running halfway there and letting the enemies get the first hit.

[Hondero]

Whoa — years of playing and I didn’t realize Wait as being different than Stand Ready (clicking on your active PC in combat — which I also like, as it hits an enemy if they walk into an adjacent square during their turn). So Wait will allow you to have your fighters effectively swap their place in the party action schedule but not give up their turn? Very cool. Have to try it out in person to see if it works how I am imagining. 

[Thaluikhain]

1 hour ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

If you have your fighters wait while your spellcasters Bless and Haste them, they can close the gap to the enemies more easily the next turn, instead of running halfway there and letting the enemies get the first hit.

 

You mean not Wait, wait, just not advance and make the enemy come to you?  Good idea, not thought of that.

 

1 hour ago, Hondero said:

Whoa — years of playing and I didn’t realize Wait as being different than Stand Ready (clicking on your active PC in combat — which I also like, as it hits an enemy if they walk into an adjacent square during their turn). So Wait will allow you to have your fighters effectively swap their place in the party action schedule but not give up their turn? Very cool. Have to try it out in person to see if it works how I am imagining. 

 

In E1, it's "Parry", rather than "Stand Ready", you are harder to hit, but you don't get a hit when you are approached (if I'm understanding it correctly).  Which is a shame.

[ladyonthemoon]

17 minutes ago, Thaluikhain said:

In E1, it's "Parry",

It's the shield icon, isn't it? I use it on combat start so that the enemies have to spend their action points to get close and the party members don't get hurt before the mage and priest can bless them. Very efficient.

 

I noticed that the order of action in E1 depends on the order of the players in the list; it's different in Avernum.

 

Edit: I'd like t post images of my new party but the image site I use is down for now.

Edited August 20, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[Thaluikhain]

32 minutes ago, ladyonthemoon said:

It's the shield icon, isn't it? I use it on combat start so that the enemies have to spend their action points to get close and the party members don't get hurt before the mage and priest can bless them. Very efficient.

 

Do you find that still worth doing when the enemy has archers or magic and can hit you a little before their fighters get close?

 

33 minutes ago, ladyonthemoon said:

I noticed that the order of action in E1 depends on the order of the players in the list; it's different in Avernum.

 

Yeah, one annoying thing is that if you are in a cramped tunnel in a dungeon and enter combat mode, the third person to act often is standing in front of the second.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

If you maneuver it right, you can sometmes get all your PCs stacked on top of each other when you enter combat, which is a good defensive position.

[ladyonthemoon]

1 hour ago, Thaluikhain said:

 

Do you find that still worth doing when the enemy has archers or magic and can hit you a little before their fighters get close?

So far, I don't remember the enemies acting before all my party members had acted.

 

1 hour ago, Thaluikhain said:

Yeah, one annoying thing is that if you are in a cramped tunnel in a dungeon and enter combat mode, the third person to act often is standing in front of the second.

You can still swap places with the one that is in front, if it has enough action points.

 

37 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

If you maneuver it right, you can sometmes get all your PCs stacked on top of each other when you enter combat, which is a good defensive position.

I did notice that two character were in the same place but it was accidental; I have no idea how to do that...

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

You position them in front of a wall/obstruction or a special encounter. They always appear behind the lead character, so if there's no room multiple can appear on one spot.

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, that's often a nice trick, though does leave you bunched up if the enemy is casting certain spells at you, and your magic users aren't hiding behind fighters.

[ladyonthemoon]

Trying a new images host:

 

Exile Gallery

 

It looks good; I've uploaded the images I've taken for now:

• the party start stats,
• their new stats after they cleaned up the Brigand Fort.

 

I'm a bit puzzled at how they all level up at different paces; Edward and Hanka are very late behind all the others and the prices are such that I haven't been able to apply all the points Bear had...

Edited August 21, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[Thaluikhain]

Oh yeah, leveling up at different rates can be a pain, I rotate the positions of melee fighters sometimes, but it's handy to have a heavy hitter first.  Also, your healers aren't killing stuff so they don't level as fast, but are important to level up.

 

I see someone with bashing and pole weapon skills, normally I'd pick one and put all the points in there.  Also, I'd give melee skills to my casters, though, I almost never use them that way so that might be a waste.  Having a third caster is useful, I find, normally I retreat from a dungeon crawl when my magic points run out, not so much my health points.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Priests have some decent offensive spells, often strong enough to get in the last blows on a few enemy grunts. They're not as effective or efficient as mage spells, but if they're not immediately needed for healing or buffing, those spells can be useful.

On the other hand, I typically play mage-priests rather than dedicated mages and dedicated priests. I want to do a different build when I play Exile 3 and BoE again though. I typically have one all-around fighter and five mage-priests, and name them all after various cheeses.

[ladyonthemoon]

48 minutes ago, Thaluikhain said:

I see someone with bashing and pole weapon skills,

Yeah, I wanted to remove the bashing points but I forgot... I'm going to remove them in the editor but I don't know where to put them instead.

 

Edit: Crap, I cannot remove the points...

 

25 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

and name them all after various cheeses.

Well, it's your call...

 

For now my party is doing well. They are wandering around looking for the Nephil fort; they had to fight a lots of Goblins, Nephils, bandits and a band of Sliths. Given the way levelling ups work, I'm not too formal about it. In Avernum, I would wait until every member has points but here I level them when they have points.

 

Back to searching for the Nephil fort...

Edited August 22, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[Thaluikhain]

30 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Priests have some decent offensive spells, often strong enough to get in the last blows on a few enemy grunts. They're not as effective or efficient as mage spells, but if they're not immediately needed for healing or buffing, those spells can be useful.

 

Wound seems more effective than flame, though generally hasting is better than either.

 

31 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

On the other hand, I typically play mage-priests rather than dedicated mages and dedicated priests. I want to do a different build when I play Exile 3 and BoE again though. I typically have one all-around fighter and five mage-priests, and name them all after various cheeses.

 

While I find at higher levels that I may as well give priest spells to casters (they've got magic points) and priest spells to fighters, I find that I need a bunch of people in armour, so no mage spells for them.  Though not tried more magic, might give that a go.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Wound is unblockable damage, but it has a shorter range than Flame. Unless there's a bug I'm forgetting, buffs and debuffs can only have up to 8 levels. If your characters are already well blessed and hasted, which is easy with higher level spells, it can free up your spellcasters for dealing damage.

The fighter is Queso Blanco. The mage-priests are Emmental, Gouda, Provolone, Brie, and Mozzarella.

[Slawbug]

There is a bug you're forgetting, but only for Bless:

 

http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/13484-code-dissection-munchkin-style/?tab=comments#comment-165138

[ladyonthemoon]

Something happened that I like very much. I had placed Edward so that he had a clear line of fire to the enemies; two of them were on the same diagonal as Edward, he fired a fireball at the enemy who was the last on the line and killed both of them. Oh how I love that!

[Thaluikhain]

On 8/23/2020 at 12:31 AM, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

it has a shorter range than Flame.

 

True, had overlooked that.  Still find it more useful myself, though.

 

On 8/23/2020 at 12:31 AM, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Unless there's a bug I'm forgetting, buffs and debuffs can only have up to 8 levels. If your characters are already well blessed and hasted, which is easy with higher level spells, it can free up your spellcasters for dealing damage.

 

Ah, not that high level yet, but good point.

[ladyonthemoon]

Okay, my party has killed the Nephilim spies outside the inn and cleared the Nephilim Fort for Captain Johnson. Now, how do I report this to the woman in the inn and the Captain? None of the words I use work. How do I get the proper rewards if I cannot report?

[Thaluikhain]

I don't know if the spies has a reward, but is it the fort with the portcullis at the back and lots of secret passages?  YIf so, you have to open the portcullis and tell the prisoners about it, and then tell the captain about the prisoners, clearing the fort itself doesn't help (well, makes that easier).

[ladyonthemoon]

5 minutes ago, Thaluikhain said:

but is it the fort with the portcullis at the back and lots of secret passages?

No, it's the new fort the Nephilim are building in the North.

 

My party also cleaned the brigands fort but I haven't found a way to report this to the captain either.

[Thaluikhain]

51 minutes ago, ladyonthemoon said:

No, it's the new fort the Nephilim are building in the North.

 

The multi-level one with Anastasia in charge?  For that, you just need the necklace (there's 3-4 necklaces there, only one is the right one, and to know you even want one you have to be told be someone nowhere near) and you get a reward for that, not for clearing it, IIRC.

[ladyonthemoon]

5 minutes ago, Thaluikhain said:

The multi-level one with Anastasia in charge?

No, the new Nephilim fort that is being built by Goblins.

[ladyonthemoon]

On 8/22/2020 at 3:37 PM, ladyonthemoon said:

Back to searching for the Nephil fort...

They eventually found it, hidden in the cave wall North-East of Fort Duvno and straight North of the Brigands Fort, after wandering a lot, killing a lot of creatures of all kind and running in circles!

 

 

On the way, they discovered a cave full of bats but just explored the entrance of it; they decided that they would wait a bit before giving it a close look. The bats seems a bit too poisonous for them yet.

 

After cleaning the new Nephilim fort, still under constructions by Goblins, and having acquired quite some new experience, they went to Silvar to train. Unfortunately, they didn't have enough money to complete their training and some of them have points left...

 

- Bear's new stats (level 7):

 

 

- Pip's new stats (level 6):

 

 

- Djinn's new stats (level 6):

 

 

- Leah's new stats (level 6):

 

 

- Edward's new stats (level 5):

 

 

- Hanka's new stats (level 4):

 

 

Leaving unassigned points is quite an annoyance, which is why some members have already got Luck points. I'm not sure if I'm going to give Luck points to every member though. What's the experienced player's advice about that?

 

Next step: freeing the prisoners from the other Nephilim cave, North of Silvar.

Edited August 29, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[Thaluikhain]

3 hours ago, ladyonthemoon said:

No, the new Nephilim fort that is being built by Goblins.

 

Oh, that one.  I think you just get loot from there.

 

And, yeah, the bats, and the rabid bats turn that the bat cave into a real grind.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Some of the early dungeon quests are given and reported in Silvar and Ft. Duvno. The nephilim spies are bothering the food merchant, not the innkeeper. I think the goblin fort is requested to be cleared out by someone in Silvar. The bandit fort quest is given to you in Ft. Duvno. I think. It might be the other way around. But you'll need to look in those two towns, if there are formal quests for them at all in Exile 1.

Edited August 29, 2020 by The Almighty Doer of Stuff

[ladyonthemoon]

13 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Some of the early dungeon quests are given and reported in Silvar and Ft. Duvno. The nephilim spies are bothering the food merchant, not the innkeeper. I think the goblin fort is requested to be cleared out by someone in Silvar. The bandit fort quest is given to you in Ft. Duvno. I think. It might be the other way around. But you'll need to look in those two towns, if there are formal quests for them at all in Exile 1.

Yeah, I know all that but when I report after finishing the missions, I cannot find the words to use. It's like there is no way to report after the job done, at least for the Bandits Fort, the Nephilim cave and the spies in Silvar (the food merchant doesn't seem to have a dialogue for that and she is still spooked).

 

Nobody knows the words I must use to report these missions? There is no list anywhere of the words we need to use in conversations?

Edited August 29, 2020 by ladyonthemoon

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

I just opened the game and checked. Neither the unfinished goblin fort nor the bandit fort are requested for you to clear out at all, and you will receive no rewards except for what you find in the forts. The food merchant doesn't do anything special either.

 

Exile has far, far fewer "quests" than either the remakes or the re-remakes. You do dungeons for the sake of the dungeons unless instructed otherwise. While little was added in the newer versions in terms of general content, a great amount of flavor was added. More text, better descriptions, more conversations, more formal quests for things you'd just do on your own.

[ladyonthemoon]

17 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Neither the unfinished goblin fort nor the bandit fort are requested for you to clear out at all, and you will receive no rewards except for what you find in the forts. The food merchant doesn't do anything special either.

Thank you for taking a look. It's puzzling because in Avernum we can report having killed the spies; the woman doesn't give a reward per se but at least she thanks the party for their good deed!

 

I hope there are not many of those not requested quests.