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Avernum is the first video game I ever played, around 2004 I think. I spent hours playing the three first games, I never player 4, 5 and 6. I was disappointed by the changes made to the visual aspect of the game; I missed the change of scale when you get out of a city in the first games, making the cave look a lot bigger. I own these games but I still don't know if I'm going to play them once.

 

So, I restarted Avernum today and created a new party, two women and two men; they just arrived in the cave.

 

Images removed by me, creating a new party... See below.

 

 

Edited by ladyonthemoon
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I can understand that you don't like second trilogy due to the scaling issues, but I think its worth to give it a try as new changes come only with pros and cons. You will definitely enjoy it too. I too hate features like all town mode, enter combat on sight, unlimited arrows, healing on gate but some features came that I like. So, you can try it once and you would like it.

 

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Thanks for your encouragements! :)

 

2 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

enter combat on sight, unlimited arrows, healing on gate

Dang, I had forgotten those... :(

 

2 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

but some features came that I like.

Which ones if I may ask? :)

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On 7/12/2020 at 2:35 PM, ladyonthemoon said:

Which ones if I may ask? :)

That would be the new graphics design, the world map feature, character actions for shooting and using swords and an innovative map in Avernum 5. I don't think there is a review page for these games. Should be considered if there is none.

12 hours ago, ladyonthemoon said:

Well, my first party didn't last long. Too unbalanced. Here is the new one:

Sorry to say, but I don't think there is a mistake with your party. Your gameplay method should be wrong. Please re update your old party so that I can compare.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

Sorry to say, but I don't think there is a mistake with your party. Your gameplay method should be wrong. Please re update your old party so that I can compare.

Aw, I deleted the images everywhere...

 

The main difference is that I replaced the shaman in my first party with a rogue, the three other characters are basically the same. Having both a shaman and a hedge wizard in the same party felt redundant and I felt uneasy when I was playing.

 

Weirdly enough, after playing a bit with the new party, it feels like there are too many fighters... Oh well, maybe I'll get used to it. :)

Edited by ladyonthemoon
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You can always change a character's emphasis by adding more to priest skills after starting out as a more fighter character to complement and not worry about armor encumbrance. That way you don't have to start over and while not optimized, you can still get useful spells to help the party.

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Posted (edited)

So, my new party left Fort Avernum; wandering around, they eventually ended up at Fort Duvno. There they met the commander and ex-farmers who all asked them for help with bandits. They cleaned an abandoned fort full of bandits. The commander is happy. They emptied the place of all the loot they could bind and made good money out of it.

 

I felt better with my three warriors; I guess I was not in a good shape yesterday. And so far, having only one character who can handle both priest and wizard spells is quite handy. Future will tell if it's viable. :)

Edited by ladyonthemoon
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Hmm... the party here again looks good. Everything depends on how we train them as we proceed in getting experience. Let me say my opinion about how I would do it.

 

My best ever combination is about using a soldier, archer, cleric and sorcerer. Archer gets tool use points too. So, from Avernum 2 onwards when I chose races I pick a slith soldier for its fire resistance, nephil archer for the nimble fingers, and the magic-casting humans. I will give points on pole, strength, hardiness, defense, cave lore mainly for my leader at the start levels. My nephil gets points on melee, bows, hardiness, defense, tool use mainly at the start levels. Priest gets dexterity, intelligence, defense, melee, P.S, potion making at the start. Mage gets dexterity, intelligence, defense, melee, M.S, arcane lore at the start. I don't believe on first aid. Endurance goes equal for all characters. No thrown missiles as they are heavy. I give some points of luck for the characters at intermediate levels. 2 points of pathfinder, 1 point of barter for everyone as they are not that useful in my scope. Everyone gets some points of vahnatai lore, leader and archer get some points of gymnastics, assassination are given to the first 2 characters at intdermediate levels and last 2 at high levels. For weaker enemies especially at the start, I use my fighters to defeat them and have my magicians to wait or defend or to rarely hack or my priest and mage just for defensive spells or rarely cast attacking spells. This is because I don't want to be overdependent on those for weaker enemies as my leaders should too get XP.

 

I also use arrows rarely upto A3 because I don't want to get out of supplies and I also want to get melee skills. Things just go like that. Priest and mage too get hardiness at intermediate levels. I feel its good for me to have 2 magic casters as I don't hav to depend on same person to heal my party and haste my party as you can do it quickly in few turns. However, whatever your party is, a good gameplay can reach heights in the game!

 

 

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Nice! Thank you for sharing. :)

 

5 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

No thrown missiles as they are heavy.

Yeah, that's a problem. For now my rogue is using javelins and since I have an archer, she uses arrows. The weight is a real problem since the values are totally inaccurate like 1 arrow = 1 pound, seriously? What was Jeff thinking? 😲 Maybe the engine doesn't allow decimals, so 1 would be the lowest possible value?

 

5 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

I also use arrows rarely upto A3 because I don't want to get out of supplies

Well, I actually like the possibility of running out of arrows and javelins; I think it gives a more interesting experience.

 

My current characters are not far from levelling up, three of them have points already. The first thing I'll do is add strength to the character that looks obviously stronger than the others, Bear, because Pip, who looks more frail has the same strength level as him. Edward, the Hedge Wizard, will get more intelligence, if possible, Djinn and Pip, I don't know yet.

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Posted (edited)

So everybody is level 2 now. After getting rid of the bandits, they explored further south and discovered Silvar. There they found a trainer who, for moderate fees, trained them:

  • Bear got 1 point in Strength and 1 in Thrown Missiles, since I've decided that being the strongest, he should have more results with javelins,
  • Pip got 2 point in  Defence and 2 in Cave Lore, because I've decided that she would have more perception than the others,
  • Djinn got 1 point in Endurance and 1 in Hardiness. He also bought three levels of Barter from the trainer.
  • Edward got 1 point in Intelligence and 1 in Arcane Lore.

After training, they explored Silvar and killed a band of Nephilim who had infiltrated the city. They also found a wand in a hidden room in an abandoned shop. Good loot!

 

Edited by ladyonthemoon
added something I forgot
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That was fast! They cleaned the Nephilim cave for the commander in Fort Duvno and they are now all level 3!

  • Bear got 1 point in Strength and Thrown Missiles,
  • Pip got 1 point in Endurance and Melee Weapons,
  • Djinn got 1 point in Hardiness, Assassination and Barter,
  • Edward got 1 point in Priest Spells, Arcane Lore and Cave Lore.

I like this new party. :)

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I didn't remember that levelling up was so fast. After doing some exploration, they discovered a cave full of bats and rats; they had the most troubles getting out of it alive and they gave up exploring it entirely. Then they resumed their wandering around, had to fight a few goblins and thugs and reached level 4. Then they discovered Cotra. There they got hints that some soldiers had been taken prisoners by Nephilim and Nepharim. They were going back to Silvar for training when they were attacked by goblins and Djinn got a new level! They are now level 4 and 5.

  • Bear got 1 point in Dexterity and Defence,
  • Pip got 1 point in Bows and Hardiness,
  • Djinn got 1 point in Dexteriry, Melee Weapons, Defence and Assassination,
  • Edward got 1 point in Mage Spells and First Aid.

I hope levelling up will slow down in the future. :)

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Hmm... looks like the progress is good. Knowing how a co-community member works with the game is a good experience. Keep going! I have a difference here though, just to share. I will just reload few number of times if some area is unreachable. I will leave only if that place is not supposed for me to go. How awful. And, ladyonthemoon, I think you can upload a daily pic update if that does not mess with your hard disk. Thank you. My PC is bugging or else I could be on with the BoA forum. Waiting for the return but I would like to give a place on budget for that after 2 months hopefully.

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2 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

I will leave only if that place is not supposed for me to go.

I guess you are referring to their experience in the Bat Cave? They were not supposed to be there, although I don't even know if that cave is part of some quest, is it? Anyway, it was obvious that they were not strong enough to explore it in full. Some of the bats killed some of my party member in three bites! They'll come back later, there is no hurry. :)

 

It's true that I hesitate posting images, knowing how heavy they can be, especially since there doesn't seem to be a way to have them display as thumbnails in posts. I can post one from time to time, after a few levelling ups.

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Posted (edited)

So, I reloaded the save I made before levelling up the last time and assigned the same points to my party members. Below is an image of their current stats. Also

 

Bear was wearing an Iron Studded Armour, he found it too encumbering and replaced it by a Fine Leather Armour. Everyone, except Edward who is still wearing the robe he had the first day, is now wearing Fine Leather Armour.

 

Regarding weapons, Bear is using a Slith spear he took from the body of a lonely Slith who attacked them and Iron Javelins, Pip is using an Iron Longsword, an Ash Bow and any type of arrows she can find, Djinn, an Iron Shortsword and Edward found a staff somewhere.

 

Note: I hope there are other staves in the game, better than Edward's.

 

1594986362.png

 

 

Edited by ladyonthemoon
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New levelling up after my party freed the prisoners in the Nephilim cave for Cotra. This time everyone got two levels, 16 points to distribute:

  • Bear got 1 point in Desterity, Endurance, Melee Weapons and Defence,
  • Pip got 1 point in Melee Weapons, Bows, Hardiness, Defence and Cave Lore,
  • Djinn got 1 point in Desterity, Hardiness, Defence and Barter,
  • Edward got 1 point in Intelligence, Pole Weapons, Defence, Arcane Lore and First Aid.

Defence is a very good skill and Edward, although he is a mage needs a way to defend himself in case he cannot use his magic. :)

 

Their weapons have changed too:

  • Bear found a Streel Greatsword for himself,
  • no changes for Pip,
  • Djinn found a Fine Slith Spear for himself too,
  • Edward has now a Stone pike.

After that, they resumed their wandering around, were attacked by Sliths on the way and discovered Fort Dranlon. There they were asked to pay visits to the Sliths and find plans and a magic tome. They went back to Cotra and bought a boat. :)

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Your progress is quite good, but I think Edward can be given something better than a robe and try increasing defence for Bear and you can wear the studded armor. And I think Djinn should be given a melee weapon according to your training of him.

Edited by Warrior Mage
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1 hour ago, Warrior Mage said:

Your progress is quite good, but I think Edward can be given something better than a robe and try increasing defence for Bear and you can wear the studded armor. And I think Djinn should be given a melee weapon according to your training of him.

I'm waiting for the first opportunity to find a better robe for Edward. Djinn is doing good with his current Fine Slith Spear, a big difference in damages dealt compared to a sword!

 

All of them will get more defence points as things go by. Right now they are doing some quests for Fort Dranlon; the commander asked them to find some plans and papers in a nearby Slith fortress; done, the commander was very happy!

 

They also discovered places were Sliths were using humans as slaves, they freed them all (five places I think). And now they must find some papers for the Mage in Fort Dranlon, they are about to enter the Slith cave.

 

All of them have already levelled up after so many fights but I'll wait until they have finished with this quest before assigning them. :)

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On 7/18/2020 at 11:12 PM, ladyonthemoon said:

I'm waiting for the first opportunity to find a better robe for Edward. Djinn is doing good with his current Fine Slith Spear, a big difference in damages dealt compared to a sword!

Ladyonthemoon, Djinn is making more damage in his fine slith spear compared to iron SHORTsword because the base dmg value of the spear is more higher than that of the shortsword. The mistake here is you compare a stronger weapon to a weaker one. So, that doesn't mean that he is doing better in pole weapons. Get a powerful melee weapon and you would find that he is doing even more greater damage. And, coming to the hedge wizard, you gave him a trait of natural mage which means you can give any armor including leather and studded armor and it won't encumber his spells if not APs. You can give any armor for Edward and not only robes. That's just my feeling and you can do achievements however you want!🙂

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

The mistake here is you compare a stronger weapon to a weaker one. So, that doesn't mean that he is doing better in pole weapons

Yes, I understand that but I see the things from the point of view of Djinn and the others: a better weapon is one that deals more damage whatever it's kind. I remember seeing Djinn dealing a 63 points blow to a Slith using his Fine Slith Spear! So if being better means using one handed pole weapons for now, so it is! And if indeed hie finds a sword that is better, so it will be! ;)

 

12 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

And, coming to the hedge wizard, you gave him a trait of natural mage which means you can give any armor including leather and studded armor and it won't encumber his spells if not APs

APs?

 

How do I know if a type of armour doesn't encumber Edward's spells? How does the indicated percentage of each armour work for spell casters?

 

And, oh, what is your take about using the Character editor?

 

For now, Bear found a Bronze Halberd in the Slith farm and Pip found a Cavewood crossbow.

 

They all have 24 points to assign but they are not finished with the farm; they are discussing between themselves about destroying the eggs or not. Edward is rather shocked at the idea but Djinn would do it with his own bare hands if he was allowed to. Pip and Bear are hesitant; hey wonder if destroying the eggs wouldn't fuel the Sliths rage making the situation worse for the human community in Avernum.

Edited by ladyonthemoon
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Regarding the baby slithzerikai: 

Spoiler

Committing infanticide/pedocide triggers an additional battle on the way out, but otherwise the only effect is your own feelings of guilt. Of course, you could also argue that they'd slowly starve to death without their parents, whom you murdered. Ultimately you're still wholesale slaughtering an entire village.

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27 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Regarding the baby slithzerikai: 

  Reveal hidden contents

Committing infanticide/pedocide triggers an additional battle on the way out, but otherwise the only effect is your own feelings of guilt. Of course, you could also argue that they'd slowly starve to death without their parents, whom you murdered. Ultimately you're still wholesale slaughtering an entire village.

That's what I thought. :)

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"How do I know if a type of armour doesn't encumber Edward's spells? How does the indicated percentage of each armour work for spell casters?"

 

The easiest way is to save the game, then change armor, and try in combat mode if a mage can use mage spells. This saves adding up positive and negative to hit chances and checking traits to see if you are above or below a number.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, ladyonthemoon said:

They all have 24 points to assign but they are not finished with the farm; they are discussing between themselves about destroying the eggs or not. Edward is rather shocked at the idea but Djinn would do it with his own bare hands if he was allowed to. Pip and Bear are hesitant; hey wonder if destroying the eggs wouldn't fuel the Sliths rage making the situation worse for the human community in Avernum.

They eventually made up their mind: they won't destroy the eggs. After some rest, they paid a visit to their favourite trainer. The all have 24 points:

  • Bear got 1 point in Dexterity, Endurance, Pole Weapons, Thrown Missiles, Hardiness and Assassination,
  • Pip got 1 point in Dexterity, Melee Weapons, Bows, Defence and Luck,
  • Djinn got 1 point in Strength, Pole Weapons, Bows, Hardiness, Defence, Tool Use and Luck,
  • Edward got 1 point in Intelligence, Mage and Priest Spells, Arcane Lore and Cave Lore.

 

Their stats.

 

Since Pip found a crossbow, she gave her bow to Djinn and trained him. To simulate that, I used the Character Editor, removed 3 points to his Thrown Missiles skilll and assigned them to Bows. He is now level 7 at bows.

 

Their equipment:

 

 

Edited by ladyonthemoon
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7 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

The easiest way is to save the game, then change armor, and try in combat mode if a mage can use mage spells. This saves adding up positive and negative to hit chances and checking traits to see if you are above or below a number.

I was dreaming of a more practical way... :D

 

Anyway, as Warrior Mage mentioned already, since his is a "natural mage", Edward can use any type of armour; it just doesn't feel right, which is why I'd like to try something else.

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1 hour ago, Warrior Mage said:

I don't think that the Avernum game ends with that. No progress since Monday? I don't think that this game is boring or posting in this forums as boring.

Ha ha, no it doesn't. I just have less time to play. I played a bit yesterday. For now my party is about to train; they all have 24 points to be assigned. More details later. :)

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So, where are my little fellows? Well, after finishing what they had to do at Fort Dranlon, they carried on exploring. The Sliths swamps to the West proved not much friendly to them, not because of the Sliths but because they were constantly ill. Then went back East, left their boat in Silvar and went exploring North. They went back to the Bat cave and finished exploring it. Nothing much to say about that. Then, they kept going North, passed by a large fortress held by Nephilims and discovered Formello.

 

1595773881.jpg

 

1595773948.jpg

 

The city is nice and busy, quite comforting actually. Edward spent a fortune buying all the Mage and Priest spells he could afford to buy and master. The mayor sent them on an errand: retrieving the necklace the Nephilims had stolen from her; a good occasion to visit the fortress they had noticed on the way.

 

It took them some time but the fortress eventually fell; they killed everyone, including the Boss, recovered the necklace and gave it back to the mayor who gave them a token and a sword they couldn't identify at first glance. They also found better armour and other weapons; Djinn had earned an Assassin's Dagger (in the Bat Cave?) which proved a lot better than he imagined. Bear found a Steel chain mail; Pip found a Steel long sword. Visiting the city, they found hidden caches where Djinn put his hands on a short sword he found to be "a beauty". The others looked elsewhere.

 

After identification, the mysterious sword the mayor had given them proved to be a Flaming Sword!  That one went to Pip. The short sword Djinn had stolen was a Blessed Short Sword. Djinn is now using it. They sold the other weapons. To avoid being too easily over encumbered, they decided to limit themselves to 12 javelins for Bear, and 48 arrows or bolts for Pip and Djinn; they'll have to rely on their melee weapons skill if they run out of missiles.

 

Formello has a training center, where they spent some time and used their 24 points:

  • Bear spent one point in Dexterity, Endurance,  Pole Weapons, Hardiness and Luck,
  • Pip spent one point in Dexterity, Endurance,  Melee Weapons, Defence and Luck,
  • Djinn spent one point in Dexterity, Melee Weapons, Hardiness, Cave Lore, Luck and Barter,
  • Edward spent one point in Hardiness, Mage and Priest Spells, Arcane Lore and Luck.

1595774175.png

 

Now, not only they are popular but they are also rich, richer than they ever were on the surface. Go figure... :)

 

Since they are more experienced, they are going back to the Nephilim cave; there there is a room with an ominous altar and a trapped hidden cache they need to figure out. After that, they'll carry on exploring North. They have heard about "friendly" spiders? and Dragons? are magical spiders? Lots of wonder to discover ahead:!

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I just don't why you have assigned tool use skills for two of your characters. It is meant to be trained by a single PC, isn't it? I don't think Bear needs tool use.

And how did you get these much of coins nearly max?.....

Edited by Warrior Mage
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3 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

I just don't why you have assigned tool use skills for two of your characters. It is meant to be trained by a single PC, isn't it? I don't think Bear needs tool use.

I never assigned Tool use points to Bear; they are added when I add points to Dexterity. I noticed that the other day; I guess when Bear gets the highest Tool use level, he'll be automatically in charge of unlocking the doors and taking care of the traps. :)

 

3 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

And how did you get these much of coins nearly max?

They sell everything they take in caves, from enemies corpses and so on; that's how they got so many coins. Anyway, given the prices of spells, they'll go fast. :p

 

You say that there is a maximum? How much is it?

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On 7/28/2020 at 4:48 PM, ladyonthemoon said:

You say that there is a maximum? How much is it?

It is 9,000 coins for A1, but it increased in the later ones. You'll not get a single penny you earned more than that. By the way, I too sell items searching the best sell cost but I don't get this whole lot of coins. It happens rarely.

 

On 7/28/2020 at 4:48 PM, ladyonthemoon said:

I never assigned Tool use points to Bear; they are added when I add points to Dexterity. I noticed that the other day; I guess when Bear gets the highest Tool use level, he'll be automatically in charge of unlocking the doors and taking care of the traps. :)

I never knew and still confused that tool use and dexterity are interrelated???

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Warrior Mage said:

I never knew and still confused that tool use and dexterity are interrelated???

Tool use being based on dexterity level makes sense. :) I guess the description of Tool use in the stats gives more details.

Edited by ladyonthemoon
typo
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Tool use is the use of lockpicks and disarming traps without setting them off. They require fine motor skills, a.k.a. dexterity. In RPGs it seems "dexterity" is used interchangeably with "speed" and/or "agility" but techically it refers to fine motor skills of the hands, like "ambiDEXTRous" means "able to use both hands equally well".

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9 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

In RPGs it seems "dexterity" is used interchangeably with "speed" and/or "agility" but techically it refers to fine motor skills of the hands, like "ambiDEXTRous" means "able to use both hands equally well".

 

With apologies for the nitpicking, but that’s not quite the case. Dexterity can refer to skilled use of the hands, but that’s only one use of the word. It can also be used to describe more general skilled use of the body, as seen in RPGs, sport and other areas. It can even be used to describe other things, such as the mind – one can be dextrous in navigating an argument, for instance. All these usages are valid, and none is more technically correct than any other.

 

The root of the word, and ‘ambidextrous’, is not the latin word for ‘hand’, but the latin word for ‘right’ (i.e. the opposite of left). Strictly speaking, ambidextrous means something like ‘both sides like the right’, that is, both sides of the body being used equally. Dexterity, likewise, means something like ‘having the property of dexter’. In other words, having the property of the right side of the body (which, in a society dominated by right-handed people, would come to be associated with skill).

 

So, if you’re looking at its root, the word dexterity just means being skilled in some general physical sense!

 

The word ambidextrous is a little different, and it would be unfair of me to neglect that! That word does tend to refer to hands in the modern day, since one usage of ‘dexter’ is to describe the right hand. So, in modern times, ambidextrous has come to be associated pretty solidly with hands. However, in my experience, the same is not true with dexterity. It has many uses, for hands and for other things!

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