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Carranzero

A6 melanchion dead but alive!

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remember that part where he appears to melt the scourge gates? well i thought it was an excellent chance to kill him, so i did... now i went back to refuge and to his lair and he's still alive?!! how can that ever happen

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curious thing that there's even a dialogue at the scourge lair gates when i attack melanchion, he says something about how stupid my party is for thinking of betrayal..... and theres dialogue when he dies as well, something about the loss of blood... i'll check later if its the same dialogue when i attack him in the lair

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12 hours ago, TriRodent said:

Melanchion has a LOT of clones, you killed one of them

 

But of course! Surely no-one would think it possible to really kill the Great Dragon? Long may he reign!
 

But, more seriously, it seems you’ve stumbled onto a slight bug, Carranzero. From what I can tell, it’s just a small omission. You also have to play through things in a slightly unconventional order in order to see this.
 

So, just to check I'm right in my thinking, you can tell me several things.
 

Firstly, in which order have you been doing Melanchion’s quests? Has he sent help to the portal, or has he not yet done so?
 

Secondly, when you returned to Melanchion’s Keep, was he happy, or hostile?

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Since Melanchion is a specially scripted NPC, there are separate scripts for each location. Killing one doesn't affect the other.

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On a general level, that is indeed the case.

 

However, given the nature of the flags that are set when either Melanchion is killed, I believe it may have been the original intention that killing one does kill the other. I think that would be quite possible in the current engine.

 

That’s why I’m enquiring about the situation Carranzero is experiencing – I want to just check my assumptions on this point. If so, it might be possible to come up with a script alteration that introduces this very behaviour!

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On 5/22/2020 at 8:44 AM, Ess-Eschas said:

 

But of course! Surely no-one would think it possible to really kill the Great Dragon? Long may he reign!
 

But, more seriously, it seems you’ve stumbled onto a slight bug, Carranzero. From what I can tell, it’s just a small omission. You also have to play through things in a slightly unconventional order in order to see this.
 

So, just to check I'm right in my thinking, you can tell me several things.
 

Firstly, in which order have you been doing Melanchion’s quests? Has he sent help to the portal, or has he not yet done so?
 

Secondly, when you returned to Melanchion’s Keep, was he happy, or hostile?

 

i love your style of answering; i've seen it in other topics and it's just..... very helpful and nice to read! thanks for that

 

firstly, melanchion quests:

 

1- kill the darkside loyalists: i killed them already before even talking to melanchion

2- then i killed farrar without anyone even raising an alarm, i'm so proud (bargha is still friendly to me hehehe)

3- i left tenevra unsacked, as palom is supplying me with knowledge brews, why on earth would i destroy it?

4- i was in the process of killing the scourge leaders when all of what i described before happened

 

so that makes 2/4 quests for mel done

 

secondly, when i returned to melanchion's lair, not only was he alive but very friendly!

 

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That’s very kind of you to say, Carranzero. Thank you! :)

 

Thanks also for your answers. I’m pretty sure I know what’s going on now, but there’s one more thing I need to check to be absolutely certain.

 

After you turned in those first two quests to Melanchion, did you then ask him to make good on his promise and fix the portal? A special dialogue option should have appeared after you completed those two quests.

 

I ask this because having Melanchion fix the portal changes a few things – including what happens if you fight him at the gates. It’s this change I think that has caused your problem, but it would be useful just to confirm that!

 

Also, if you happen to still have a save in which one Melanchion is dead and the other alive, could you please keep it? I think I might be able to come up with a fix that would solve the issue – but it would be useful to have a save to test it on! Sadly, my own saves don’t have the quests arranged in anything like this order, so it would be a lot of work on my part to get a point where I could test things myself!

 

Incidentally, nice work on the Bargha quest. It’s impressive to get through things that way!

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2 hours ago, Ess-Eschas said:

That’s very kind of you to say, Carranzero. Thank you! :)

 

Thanks also for your answers. I’m pretty sure I know what’s going on now, but there’s one more thing I need to check to be absolutely certain.

 

After you turned in those first two quests to Melanchion, did you then ask him to make good on his promise and fix the portal? A special dialogue option should have appeared after you completed those two quests.

 

I ask this because having Melanchion fix the portal changes a few things – including what happens if you fight him at the gates. It’s this change I think that has caused your problem, but it would be useful just to confirm that!

 

Also, if you happen to still have a save in which one Melanchion is dead and the other alive, could you please keep it? I think I might be able to come up with a fix that would solve the issue – but it would be useful to have a save to test it on! Sadly, my own saves don’t have the quests arranged in anything like this order, so it would be a lot of work on my part to get a point where I could test things myself!

 

Incidentally, nice work on the Bargha quest. It’s impressive to get through things that way!

indeed, as you say, yeah i asked him after i did the farrar quest (remember i killed the loyalists before meeting mel for the 1st time) to make good on his end of the deal, THEN i went to finish the scourge lair quest. maybe as you say it changed a bit of SDF's (does that even exists in this game?) and probably it's the reason that i killed him, but didn't "die" properly

 

and sure thing, i have some saves which are:

 

- no quests whatsoever done for gladwell (not even the fort remote shades one), 2/4 quests done for mel and "complete the portal" quest

- all quests done for gladwell, and then he's dead (2/4 done for mel and "complete the portal" quests which means mel agreed to make good on his end of the deal)

- all quests done for gladwell, and he's alive (2/4 done for mel and "complete the portal" quest)

- all quests done for gladwell, he's alive, and scourge is dead (which is the one i'm playing on now) ("complete the portal" quest as well)

 

sadly i don't have any saves without the "complete the portal" quest if that is what you were asking for. would you want me to go to mel's lair and kill him and have a savegame with that?

 

best regards and as always you're very kind and helpful in your way of answering

 

 

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Great! That confirms my suspicions as to what is causing this. Many thanks for the answers, Carranzero!
 

Don’t worry about doing any more work with your save games. All I need is one where Melanchion has agreed to help with the portal, and in which you’ve killed him at the gates, but where he’s still alive in his keep. It seems you have one of those already, so that’s all that’s needed! (As a bonus, it might be useful to have one before you’ve killed Melanchion at the gates, too, but it looks like you have one of those too).
 

Now I know what the problem is, I have an idea as to how to fix it. I can’t promise that I’ll be able to do this immediately, since I have a few other obligations in the pipeline at the moment, but I’ll see what I can do.
 

Once I come up with something I’d like you to test for me, I’ll let you know!
 

Incidentally, if you ever work through Avernum 6 again, you might find it interesting to try and kill Melanchion at the gates before he agrees to help with the portal. Something quite different should happen! :)

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hey! this is my second replay of A6, and therefore i can honestly say it is definitively not my favorite one... the thing i hated the most is the infinite sliths at formello, is there something more annoying than that? i don't think i'll be playing them again! but still, i can provide you with the savegames you asked, no problem! tell me where can i send them to you, please

 

can't say the same about Avernum 2 (not the remake, the original one)... it's by far my favorite! such a compelling story... the empire strikes back, and you are the one that defeats the invasion, isn't that awesome? i must have replayed it like 10 times by now?

what about Avernum 3 (original)? the speed on that one got to be the thing i liked the most... those lightning sprays BRRWWAAAM, in 0.2 seconds all the enemies fried, very fast special effects! and riding horses, isn't that awesome?

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