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The Abominable Party-Building Topic


Lilith

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There seems to be a certain degree of demand for a party-building FAQ of some sort, so to that end I'm starting a topic to collect opinions and advice on stat management, both large-scale (what each of your characters is meant to do) and small-scale (what stats you give them to achieve that end). Now, this is meant to be helpful to other players rather than simply a reflection of what people are used to, so don't just turn this into a post-your-party topic; if you want to tell us what party you use, justify why it works for you.

 

I should add that I always play on Torment difficulty, and almost never use invulnerability, Divine Aid or potions except in scenarios where some of these are virtually essential (e.g. Canopy). So if my strategy works under these restrictions, it'll hopefully work pretty much anywhere.

 

The information I'm about to give is going to be pretty in-depth; apologies for those of you who don't need it, but I use a fairly unusual party design and feel that I ought to explain how and why I use it.

 

Character #1

 

Character #1 is my party's only fighter; he's usually enough to hold off attacks from melee-using opponents. (If he isn't, well, that's what Character #4 is for; I'll get to that later.) I make him human and give him the traits Sickness Prone and Completely Inept, because neither of those traits is actually very harmful, and gaining levels ludicrously fast is generally a good thing.

 

Initially, I build up Strength, Endurance and Melee Weapons so that their costs remain about equal. (Sometimes I'll use pole weapons as my primary weapon skill instead, depending on the scenario.) Once I've reached 14 levels of Melee Weapons, I put points into Pole Weapons so as to get Blademaster. (I've done some calculations, and 14 levels of one weapon skill is pretty much the optimal point at which to try for Blademaster.)

 

After that point, I try to build up Strength, Melee Weapons, Blademaster and Endurance with their costs remaining equal as before. You'll note that I don't mention putting any points into Dexterity. This is because I don't need to; I find I almost always hit 95% of the time anyway, and trying to reduce enemies' hit rate against you is generally less efficient than being able to survive when they do hit you. In fact, the only other stats I put points into are Defence and Assassination; Defence gets points whenever my encumbrance gets close to the point at which I'd start losing AP, and Assassination gets a point or two when I have points to spare.

 

In combat, his primary job is to make absolutely sure he's the only one getting hit. He's the first to charge into a room, and always stays a couple of spaces in front of the other characters. Of course, he's no slouch at dealing out damage either, but the party can work efficiently even if for some reason he's not able to attack.

 

Characters #2 and #3

 

#2 and #3 are essentially identical Nephil archer-priests, both with Sickness Prone and Brittle Bones. (The way I play, Brittle Bones is essentially irrelevant as a disadvantage, because they're never going to be attacked in melee.)

 

I start both of them out with 6 points in Priest Spells, 5 points in Dexterity and 8 points in Thrown Missiles. After that, I try to build Priest Spells up so that it's always at least a couple of ranks above the highest-level spells I'm getting at the time, and put points into Dexterity when I have points to spare. Once Dexterity is high enough for me to get Sharpshooter, I basically forget about Dexterity completely and keep building up Priest Spells, Thrown Missiles and Sharpshooter (keeping Thrown Missiles and Sharpshooter at an equal cost per point).

 

At high levels, once Priest Spells is at 17 and I have decent missile skills, I'll start putting a few points into Intelligence, but I don't go overboard; once it's high enough that I can get Magery, I generally stop building it up (maybe putting a few points into Magery instead, but not too many). Eventually I might give them a few points of Mage Spells, just enough for them to cast Create Illusions.

 

Strategically, they can do a number of different things. Usually they'll have slings equipped as missile weapons, so that I don't have to worry about conserving ammunition; for really major battles, I might switch to javelins. Blessing and Radiant Shielding before battles is always useful. Against BoA's ubiquitous undead and demons, of course, they can throw Repel Spirit around. (Against 2 or fewer monsters, though, I'll usually just sling rocks at them instead.) And when someone needs healing or curing, well, that's what priest spells are for. High-cost spells like Divine Restoration or Divine Host are reserved for real emergencies.

 

If I find myself in need of Tool Use, I'll usually put a couple of points of it on either #2 or #3. Likewise for Arcane Lore, although with three spellcasters in my party I rarely have any problems with Rune Reading.

 

Character #4

 

This one's a fairly typical mage-priest. Human, with Sickness Prone and Brittle Bones. Starts with 6 levels of Mage Spells and 5 of Priest Spells, then builds them up about equally from there. Once both are at 17, I start giving him points in Intelligence, then Magery. From then on, I put all my points into Intelligence and Magery, keeping Intelligence costing about 2 points more than Magery at all times.

 

Since #4 usually has the best overall spellcasting ability, he's usually the one who casts Enduring Barrier on my characters in preparation for a dungeon. He also hastes the party in preparation for major fights. (War Blessing is okay as far as it goes, but Haste lasts far longer and gives a much better initiative bonus.) When the party is overwhelmed by monsters too powerful or numerous for #1 to safely defend them against, #4 casts Create Illusions for protection. The rest of the time, he's mostly a healer -- attack spells are so expensive that I rarely find them useful.

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Good idea for a topic, Thuryl.

 

I've found building 4-person parties to be easy enough, but how in blazes does one carry off a singleton? I tried Drakey's warrior-priest configuration (Divinely Touched, Fast on Feet slith), but I got mauled by the goblins in Backwater Calls and gave up on that in a hurry.

 

In terms of advice...

 

I find that, at high levels, melee is the most efficient way to kill just about anything. Once my party goes through a lot of scenarios, I tend to accrue a substantial amount of AP bonus items, to the point where my two fighters can each attack three times in a turn when hasted. Dealing 400-some damage (Maximillian, Hidden City Spear) six times in a turn is something I can just never do with magic, and I'd rather use the spell points to bless/haste/radiant shield. If something is far away, Adlerauge usually suffices (especially three times a turn).

 

(Note: Even without the unbalanced Hidden City Spear, my pole guy was still doing about 250 a hit)

 

My high-level party has a dedicated mage and a dedicated priest, and I often feel the squeeze on my priest (i.e. too many things need fixing in one turn of combat). I definitely recommend having two characters with Heal at a reasonably high level, so that one of them can do that while the other removes statuses or blesses as needed.

 

EDIT: Also, being able to cast heal twice can help you avoid casting Divine Restoration, which is a major plus spell points-wise. Oh, and Radiant Shield is a life-saver once you get into higher-level scenarios and everything and its uncle can cast Control Foes. Super-powerful weapons and 10 AP are a huge liability when your fighters can get confused.

 

I use mage spells for about the same things Thuryl does, with the added qualification that Arcane Shield can be quite useful for my strategies as well (especially since my priest, who tends to be encumbered, often only has one spell per turn), because my fighters do pretty much everything. Create Illusions (especially at level 10 - thank you Canopy) is a lifesaver against archer-type enemies and enemies with powerful melee attacks, but spellcasters can clear them out in one turn, and still damage the party.

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Hmm. I usually use a freshly-made HLPM party for each scenario I play, so my item selection tends to be more limited -- in particular, few or no AP boosts, and no super-powerful weapons. I used to build parties around having fighters do all the damage, but found that they made the combat too fast and chaotic for my liking -- I had to have the combat essentially won within a round or two, or I'd be swarmed and killed. My current style is more defensive.

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Are you sure you charector #1 hits 95% of the time. In my usual party i have a similair melee-weapon fighter guy (although he doesn't have blademaster). At first i really didn't care much about dexterity, but then he was constantly missing his attacks. After i put points into dexterity, he was fine.

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Thuryl, if you HLPM-generate your parties, why bother with the disadvantages? The HLPM, as I understand it, will spit out a level 40 party, regardless of whether all the characters have Sickness Prone, Brittle Bones, Elite Warrior, or Natural Mage.

 

While I'm kind of on the subject...

 

No Natural Mage, Thuryl? Gah.

 

EDIT: I would also really, really like to know how to do a singleton, and whether or not combat with one is always won by the skin of one's teeth, because, in that case, I just won't bother.

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Quote:
Originally written by PoD person:
Thuryl, if you HLPM-generate your parties, why bother with the disadvantages? The HLPM, as I understand it, will spit out a level 40 party, regardless of whether all the characters have Sickness Prone, Brittle Bones, Elite Warrior, or Natural Mage.
Good point. I guess I like a challenge. :p

(Seriously, though, in long scenarios the extra levels you gain *during* the scenario make a huge difference. Most parties go into Bahssikava at level 40 and finish at level 60; one of mine went in at level 30 and finished at level 75.)

Quote:
While I'm kind of on the subject...

No Natural Mage, Thuryl? Gah.
In general, the only things worth putting on a mage's back don't encumber him anyway. Sticking him in platemail and a shield won't really do much to save him if he gets attacked (especially with only 3 Endurance). As for the bonus to spellcasting, I don't think it's worth effectively *doubling* the amount of XP it'd take to level up (remember, to get Natural Mage I'd also have to remove one of my disadvantages).

Quote:
EDIT: I would also really, really like to know how to do a singleton, and whether or not combat with one is always won by the skin of one's teeth, because, in that case, I just won't bother.
If I were into singletons, I'd be inclined to make an archer-spellcaster. Archery as the main source of damage, enough mage spells to use Create Illusions for protection and enough priest spells for decent healing.
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Quote:
Originally written by MadScientist:
Has anyone tried to load up one character with items that grant "-xx% chance to be hit"? Is it possible to bring the chance to hit for the enemies down to 5% consistently? I imagine a tank with high defense, gymnastics, and resistance. Would this work in high-level scenarios?
It's not impossible. I played with a Divinely Touched character for a while, put lots of points into Dexterity, Defence and Gymnastics, and found that quite a lot of the monsters in Bahssikava were getting 5% hit rates on him most of the time. The trouble is that monsters with a much higher level than you will have a ludicrously high chance to hit you no matter how well-defended you are, so you can't always rely on dodging attacks for survival. (I learned this the hard way when I got torn up by Bahss's bosses.)
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My thing is the warrior-priest singleton. Load up to five or six in priest levels, and five in strength, and four in int and end. I put the rest into melee weapons and hardiness. I like Strong Will and Divinely Touched, but Fast on Feet is good too.

 

When fighting, I like the use War Blessing, and for the first few levels, Smite is more valuable than weapons. However, after getting a few more levels on and some better weapons, it's possible to go in blessed and hasted and lay waste with a sword.

 

One of the more difficult monsters I've faced at an early level was the alien beast in the School of Magery, and the other ones outside of it. They're not hard with Divine Aid, but otherwise they can be a handful.

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Both.

 

I personally enjoy the concept of an Archer. The key skills are Dexterity, whichever weapon skill your main fighter is not using and Bows. Get Endurance as often as your fighter does, and use your archer as a second line of defense against opponents. Since arrows are in relatively high supply everywhere except for Bahssikava (and at that point you'd have Adlerauge), ammunition for 1 PC out of four becomes inconsequential. Stop spending points in Dexterity when Sharpshooter becomes an option, and only reconsider it when two levels of it is just as expensive as the next-highest level of Sharpshooter or Bows.

 

The biggest advantages of an Archer respectively are being able to cover one's rear in case of ambushes and Adlerauge. Both, IMO, make this guy worth considering.

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A few things about parties and party building strategy.

 

1) I try to get the maximum experience penalties for the parties I am creating. This extends the useful life of the parties I create. I am not interested in leveling up quickly. -60% to -70% experience penalty.

 

2) This increases the number of scenarios a party will go through. Allows for better item accumulation, and knowledge brew use. Less level gains means more scenarios to send a party through. Also, a character does not get as much experience for killing lower level monsters than the character.

 

3) There is a maximum level of 100 for monsters in BOA. The characters ability to gain experience slows way down at about lvl 70. Monsters don't generate that much experience.

 

4) I change the name of my save file after I finish a scenario. This creates a bunch of different saves with different level parties. No need to create a new party for every scenario.

 

5) The general pattern I follow is a four party group.

 

1) Slith-- Divinely Touched Strong back-- Rebel-- Focus on Polearms-- Tool Use-- Defense.

 

2) Human-- Elite Warrior-- Fast On Feet -- Melee-- Bows-- Defense

 

3) Human-- Cleric-- Natural Mage-- Scholar

Focus on Missile Weapons-- Alchemy-- Arcane Knowledge-- Cleric Spells.

 

4) Nephil-- Hedge Wizard-- Fast On Feet-- Natural Mage-- Focus on Mage and Cleric Spells.

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A word on the pure archer - it most definitely is viable, and extremely powerful. My party consists of a front-line tank (human, natural warrior), a pure archer (nephil), and two mage/priests. The archer kills more than any of them. Why? Well, three reasons.

 

First, adlerauge, the incredibly powerful bow from canopy which does 1-9 per level plus some ridiculous bonuses, is comparable to the highest damage melee or pole weapons. Personally, I think it's rather unbalancing. Ranged weapons usually do less damage for a reason, which brings me to the next two points.

 

Second, unlike a tank, which has to put lots of skill points into endurance and defense and the like, the archer is free to be entirely offensive, since they should only very rarely be in harm's way in the first place. In this way they're much like magic users. Also, while a tank should probably have a couple points in either bows or thrown, so he doesn't waste a turn if the enemies are out of range, the archer does NOT need any points in melee or pole weapons, since these will do less damage than the ranged attack anyway, there's no restriction on point blank shots, and it's easy and cheap to buy lots of arrows often. Thus, the archer's attack level (dex/2 + bows + sharpshooter) should be considerably higher than the warrior's equivalent.

 

And third, the archer should have high dexterity (and therefore high initiative) and doesn't have to move much to attack. Therefore, he will almost always get a very high damage shot or two (or three) before the fight even really begins, and does the same every turn while being in relatively little danger. What this amounts to is being able to pick which of your enemies you want to fight least, and killing them before they even know what's happening. This makes the archer particularly indispensible as a mage-killer, since silencing their spells early is important, and mages usually hang back and are resistant to magic.

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A whole bunch of quotes from different people follow, along with my responses.

 

Quote:
I think it's worth giving everyone a point of priest spells. It doesn't cost much, and having everyone able to heal can help when I'm in trouble.
This isn't a bad idea, although if your fighter needs to heal people regularly, it probably means you don't have enough priests. On the other hand, giving a fighter spells means that monsters with dumbfounding ray are likely to target him instead of your casters.

 

Quote:
Ah, Thuryl, but my casters have the ludicrously high amount of endurance it takes to get Magical Efficiency, and thus have, like, twice as much health as my fighters. It is true, though, that my priest is now about ten levels ahead of my mage, on account of not having any advantages.
Magical Efficiency isn't a bad skill as such, but I'm not convinced that it's better than putting all those points into Intelligence instead; that gives you extra SP and more powerful spells, and the way I play I don't run out of SP all that often anyway. I suppose if you use lots of high-cost spells like Fireblast or Divine Restoration, Magical Efficiency might be worth your while.

 

Quote:
So Intelligence doesn't matter for a mage or priest until you're done building your particular spell-related skill, and dexterity doesn't matter at all for anyone?
Pretty much. Dexterity's good if you want certain special skills, but in its own right it doesn't do much. Intelligence has its uses, but I try to keep my spellcasting skills as high as possible to avoid the risk of finding a spell I can't learn.

 

Quote:
1) I try to get the maximum experience penalties for the parties I am creating. This extends the useful life of the parties I create. I am not interested in leveling up quickly. -60% to -70% experience penalty.
This is just a personal preference as regards the way I play, but I find this doesn't work for me. I like to make things as hard as possible for myself, which means playing with a party significantly lower in level than intended for the scenario.

 

Now, if I allow myself Divinely Touched, then I can finish scenarios with ludicrously low-level parties, but only by running away and resting to recharge Divine Aid after pretty much every significant fight. This isn't fun. At the same time, I don't want to have Divine Aid to fall back on in scenarios where I won't need it. So I don't use Divinely Touched. As for the other advantages, none of them seem enormously worthwhile to me.

 

Quote:
Second, unlike a tank, which has to put lots of skill points into endurance and defense and the like, the archer is free to be entirely offensive, since they should only very rarely be in harm's way in the first place. In this way they're much like magic users. Also, while a tank should probably have a couple points in either bows or thrown, so he doesn't waste a turn if the enemies are out of range, the archer does NOT need any points in melee or pole weapons, since these will do less damage than the ranged attack anyway, there's no restriction on point blank shots, and it's easy and cheap to buy lots of arrows often. Thus, the archer's attack level (dex/2 + bows + sharpshooter) should be considerably higher than the warrior's equivalent.
Agreed on all counts, but I do have one thing to add; I find that at high levels, pure archers aren't enormously superior in firepower to archer-priests, because at some point all of the skills that add to missile damage become so expensive to add more points to that they essentially stop progressing and you may as well put a few points into something else.
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I agree that the bonus Intelligence gives to offensive spells isn't much, but every point of Intelligence means 3 extra SP, and every 8 points means an extra summoned monster from Create Illusions. Healing maybe 110 HP instead of 80 every time you cast Healing is a pretty significant improvement too.

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Quote:
Originally written by Evil_Penguin:
[QB]First, adlerauge, the incredibly powerful bow from canopy which does 1-9 per level plus some ridiculous bonuses, is comparable to the highest damage melee or pole weapons. Personally, I think it's rather unbalancing. Ranged weapons usually do less damage for a reason, which brings me to the next two points.[QB]
If you feel it's unbalancing, no one forces you to use Alderauge.
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Oh, absolutely. With a mage-priest you won't have the points to spare for intelligence until high levels, with an archer-mage or archer-priest you'll get more mileage out of missile skills instead until very high levels, and if you're thinking of making a pure mage or pure priest you should probably consider diversifying their skills. (A pure priest can be handy at low levels when a few extra HP from Enduring Barrier makes a real difference, but at high levels EB is increasingly irrelevant.)

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So, in short, has this thread refuted the original four-character party originally put forth, of a human tank, two nephil archer-priests, and a human mage priest, using the (advantageous) "disadvantages" to boost level gain?

 

I, for one, am still up in the air on the strategy of giving "disadvantages" for level gain and giving "advantages" to *slow* level gain.

 

Also, I'd pretty much agree about mage spells... with a few exceptions (soul capture/simulcrum, create illusions, etc.), they're not that great. Priest spells are great.

 

Anyhow, just thought I'd chime in... I've been slacking at playing BoA ever since I stalled in Bahssikava... I might just build a party along these lines in the HLPM or just edit one up. There are scenarios coming out that I want to enjoy.

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Divinely Touched does give some cool abilities but I haven't found them that useful after the first couple levels.

 

Strong Will is more useful for party fighters than singletons -- it keeps your melee specialists from becoming a threat to your spellcasters. If you get controlled or possessed as a solo, you're essentially invulnerable until the effect passes, sometimes leaving you in a better strategic position and sometimes worse. Mind control has saved my solo chars' lives a couple times.

 

Fast on Feet is a necessity for a solo. Toughness is very helpful. Elite Warrior or Natural Mage, depending on whether you want to emphasize melee or magic, also help make a commando char.

 

None of these advantages are really necessary to make a solo char; for more challenge, you could make a character with only vulnerabilities, level fast and still pull it off at torment level. Even the skill concentrations are less important than how you use them. What really matters is tactics.

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For once, I'm going to disagree with Creator and Thuryl on tactics!

 

Mage and Priest spells are very expensive at high levels, add +1 Bonus to the chosen type of spell, and +3 spell points. Intelligence, which is usually cheaper than Mage or Priest spells, gives you +1 Bonus to both types of spells and +3 spell points (and a mage will never be hurting for magic resistance). Thus when you have more than you need for whichever spells you want, Intelligence becomes more efficient.

 

PS- If Maximilian is doing piss-poor damage, you might want to think about Bladesmaster.

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I guess what would be really useful is a quantitative breakdown of what affects what. For example, TM pointed out that raising a point in a given type of magic grants a +1 Bonus to that skill and +3 spell points, while a point in Intelligence grants a +1 Bonus to both types of spells and +3 spell points, in addition to some amount of magic resistance. What does an additional point in Dexterity/Strength/etc. do, and what does it affect? I know that some of this is detailed in the documentation (such as it is), but not really quantitatively. The side of the coin is: when does it become most efficient to start building something else?

 

(Maybe this is something I could figure out and contribute to the community...)

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It's not that maximillian does poor damage - my warrior generally hits in the low 300s. It's just that my archer does even more. And he does have plenty in blademaster. Incidentally, though, is there some reason blademaster is very powerful that I'm not seeing? I thought it was just equivalent to a point each in melee and pole weapons, meaning its only worthwhile when it becomes cheaper to get all the prereqs in pole weapons and THEN start buying it than to add more points in melee.

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Blademaster isn't more powerful, it's just that it's usually cheaper than your primary weapon skill, so you can get more of it for the same amount of skill points. Archery doesn't get assassination, so I have no idea how you do so much damage with your archer, but more power to you. With assassination, my fighter was getting up to the 450-550 range with Maximillian.

 

EDIT: So, yeah, lack of assassination may be why your archer does so much more than your melee character. Plus, a tank is useful just to absorb the enemies' attacks, and if it can kill stuff too, that's excellent. If it can do so efficiently, the rest of the party becomes basically unnecessary.

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As far as I know...

 

Strength:

+1 level of melee damage

+40 pounds of maximum load

 

Dexterity:

+1 level of ranged damage every 2 ranks

+5% to hit

+5% evasion

 

Intelligence:

+3 spell points

+1 Bonus on mage spells

+1 Bonus on priest spells

+5% resist mental every 2 ranks

 

Endurance:

+level hit points (not sure about this one)

+5% resist poison

 

Melee Weapons:

+1 level of melee damage with melee

+5% to hit with melee

 

Pole Weapons:

+1 level of melee damage with melee

+5% to hit with pole

 

Bows:

+1 level of ranged damage with bows

+5% to hit with bow

 

Thrown Weapons:

+1 level of ranged damage with thrown

+5% to hit with thrown

 

Hardiness:

-1 to all damage taken

+1% resist fire

+1% resist cold

+1% resist magic

+5% resist poison every 2 ranks

+5% resist fire every 4 ranks

+5% resist cold every 4 ranks

+5% resist magic every 4 ranks

 

Defense:

-1 encumbrance

+5% evasion

 

Assassination:

+3% (?) chance to double melee damage

 

Mage Spells:

+3 spell points

+1 Bonus to mage spells

+5% resist magic

+5% resist mental every 2 ranks

 

Priest Spells:

+3 spell points

+1 Bonus to priest spells

+5% resist mental every 2 ranks

 

Luck:

+5% resist fire

+5% resist cold

+5% resist magic

+5% resist poison

+5% resist acid

+5% to hit

+5% evasion

(I'm not sure if there's a lifesaver effect or not.)

 

Quick Strike:

+?% +1 AP

 

Parry:

?

 

Blademaster:

+5% to hit in melee

+1 level damage in melee

 

Anatomy:

+1 level damage to humanoids?

 

Gymnastics:

+5?% evasion

 

Magery:

+1 Bonus to mage spells

+1 Bonus to priest spells

+5% resist magic

+5% resist mental

 

Resistance:

+5% resist fire

+5% resist cold

+5% resist magic

+5% resist mental

 

Lethal Blow:

+(bizarrely determined)% to triple melee

 

Riposte:

+(bizarrely determined)% to riposte

 

Sharpshooter:

+1 level damage at range

+5% to hit at range

 

Dread Curse:

-1 to all statistics

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Quote:
Originally written by Guardian of Eternity:
So, in short, has this thread refuted the original four-character party originally put forth, of a human tank, two nephil archer-priests, and a human mage priest, using the (advantageous) "disadvantages" to boost level gain?
I wouldn't say "refuted". There are other party designs that can dish out much, much more damage in certain situations, but I can tell you from experience that my design is a very solid defensive party. (I'd like to see a fighter-based party beat Galthrax in Bahssikava without relying on invulnerability or Divine Aid. Okay, so you can probably do it with Cloud of Blades if you can dance around the antimagic, but I don't allow myself that spell because it's unbalancing.)

Quote:
Sorry for the practically-double post, but I just had to ask... do many of you use the pre-made classes (Berzerker, Archer, Rebel, etc.) or do you just go with a Custom?
The default classes can be used to effectively start with a handful of extra skill points if you're clever and if you really find most of their skills at least somewhat useful, but I don't really think it's worth the trouble. One big disadvantage at low levels is that it's impossible to start any class with large amounts of both mage spells and priest spells.

Quote:
TM's big list o' skills
Dexterity, Quick Strike and Gymnastics all seem to give some kind of bonus to "initiative" -- that is, to who goes first in a round. My personal theory is that each level in one of these is equivalent to one level of hasting in terms of its effects on initiative, but I haven't tested that.

Also, I'm pretty sure Gymnastics gives a bonus to hit as well as to evasion. And I thought Hardiness only affected physical damage. Luck does indeed have a lifesaver effect but I'm not sure how its chance of working is worked out.

Quote:
Luck actually looks like a pretty good deal, what with all those resistances. Do they in reality help that much though?
Well, in reality they don't do much that Radiant Shield at sufficiently high levels can't do.
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Don't forget strength increases your chances to bash down doors.

 

Dexterity increases your tool use-- not sure the bonus percentage.

 

If your characters are very fast, they can take out Galthrax quickly. Speed and initiative are often more important than defense.

 

Which noncombat skills do you try to focus on getting quickly.

 

I rather like pathfinder.

I also like magical efficiency.

 

Alchemy has been hardly mentioned. Getting enough points in alchemy and the recipe for energy potion, energy elixir, and protection brew can make the game very easy.

 

My priest character is basically a potion factory. No mage skill. You can carry up to 100 potions of any variety per slot. Also up to 100 ingredients per slot. Basically she carries all the ingredients the party finds, plus a bunch of potions. As the character progresses I up the strength, melee, defense, potion making, priest, arcane lore, nature lore slots. Eventually move to pathfinder, magical efficieny.

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If you can bash down doors when you can't pick the locks, either your Strength must be ridiculously high or your Tool Use must truly suck. You'd be better off investing your spare skill points in Tool Use than Strength.

 

As for Dexterity's relation to TU, every 2 points of Dexterity mean 1 more point of Tool Use. Likewise, 2 points of Intelligence mean 1 more point of Arcane Lore, and 4 points mean 1 more point of Nature Lore. And 4 points of Dexterity mean +5% resistance to all elements. And so on. All this stuff is mentioned on the character info screen; it's just a matter of listing it.

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Feats? You mean traits? Someone's been playing too much D&D. :p

 

EDIT: Well, here comes the list. It's mostly qualitative rather than quantitative because I don't actually know how powerful the effects of most traits are. It also includes my opinions on them.

 

Strong Back: 100 more XP needed to gain a level. Increases carrying weight by one third, reduces encumbrance by 4. Opinion: this one's actually pretty good. More carrying capacity is always nice, and fighters will probably wear enough armour that if they don't have this they'll need to throw skill points into Defence. The experience penalty is pretty minimal, too.

 

Nimble Fingers: 150 more XP needed to gain a level. Flat +4 bonus to Tool Use. Opinion: Paying an experience penalty every level for a small one-off bonus is a sucker's deal. Might be okay in a party you're intending to use for a small low-level scenario and never touch again, but otherwise stay far away.

 

Beastmaster: 150 more XP needed to gain a level. Gives the Call Beast ability (summons a monster). Opinion: Oh, please. If you really want a summoning ability, you may as well go for Divinely Touched, which is far superior in every regard.

 

Strong Will: 150 more XP needed to gain a level. Supposedly increases resistance to mental effects. No visible effect on statistics. Opinion: Eh. Apparently this is useful on singletons to prevent them from being paralysed with disastrous results, but paralysis isn't really all that common and the trait isn't 100% effective at preventing it anyway.

 

Good Education: 150 more XP needed to gain a level. Supposedly increases "knowledge" (presumably Rune Reading and possibly Item Lore). No visible effect on statistics. Opinion: If you have only one spellcaster in your party, you might struggle with Rune Reading enough to consider this (although frankly, saving up the skill points you'd get from the extra levels you'd gain by NOT taking this trait and putting them into Arcane Lore would probably get you better returns). If you have quite a few spellcasters in your party, you're not likely to ever struggle significantly with Rune Reading, so this trait won't be much use.

 

Toughness: 200 more XP needed to gain a level. Supposedly reduces "serious damage" and increases resistance to poison and disease. No visible effect on statistics. Opinion: I don't have very much experience with this, but I'm not convinced it actually has a noticeable effect.

 

Fast on Feet: 200 more XP needed to gain a level. Increases initiative and gives a decent chance to get one bonus AP each round. Opinion: Not great. Once you're hasted (which you should be for most major fights), 7 AP isn't that different from 6. Only with Quick Strike or AP-boosting items might this ability provide a worthwhile extra boost for you.

 

Natural Mage: 250 more XP needed to gain a level. Allows mage spells beyond Slow to be cast while encumbered, and supposedly gives a bonus to spell effectiveness. Imban and I have determined that this bonus is equivalent to 3 points of Bonus to both mage and priest spells at level 1, plus an additional point of Bonus at every level divisible by 7. Also gives the ability Restore Energy (restores spell energy by 50% of maximum amount). Opinion: Eh; it has its uses, but it's pretty expensive for what it gives in practice. Typically, mages don't gain much by wearing encumbering armour. I'm not sure about the extent of the bonus it gives to spellcasting, but I doubt it's huge. Restore Energy is okay (and has the advantage of requiring no AP if used in combat), but only usable once per day.

 

Elite Warrior: 300 more XP needed to gain a level. Supposedly gives bonuses in combat. Gives the ability Go Berserk (blesses and shields user). Opinion: Not sure about this. Go Berserk is pretty good at low levels, but its usefulness falls off later on. The unspecified "bonuses" do seem to have some effect, but I'm not convinced it's worth the very substantial XP penalty.

 

Divinely Touched: 400 more XP needed to gain a level. Gives +1 to Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence at level 1, and a further +1 bonus at every level divisible by 8. Gives the abilities Divine Aid (gives Divine Protection status to user), Call Spirit (summons a shade) and Regenerate (restores a small amount of HP). Opinion: On one hand, it gives the best ability in the game, a couple of other mildly useful ones, and some nice stat bonuses. On the other hand, the XP penalty is enormous. If you use it, plan to base your character design around it.

 

Cursed at Birth: 200 fewer XP needed to gain a level. Supposedly gives penalties to resistance against some magical effects and also penalises other actions. No visible effect on statistics. Opinion: I've played through an entire scenario with a character who had this and didn't notice any significant penalties or weaknesses. The XP bonus is pretty good, so it's worth considering.

 

Sickness Prone: 200 fewer XP needed to gain a level. Supposedly reduces resistance to poison and disease. No visible effect on statistics. Opinion: Again, I haven't observed any real penalties with this. If you haven't filled up your two trait slots with traits you want, you should definitely think about taking this one.

 

Sluggish: 300 fewer XP needed to gain a level. Reduces initiative, and decreases AP by 1 every round. Opinion: Eww. Losing 1 AP every single round hurts. 5 AP when hasted is okay for fighters and archers if you don't mind never being able to move around without losing an attack, but if you want to take negative traits for the XP bonus, there are less harmful ones.

 

Brittle Bones: 300 fewer XP needed to gain a level. Appears to double all damage received from physical attacks. Opinion: Obviously, don't give this to a fighter. Archers and spellcasters, on the other hand, don't really have any reason to ever be in melee, so this won't hurt them too much.

 

Completely Inept: 400 fewer XP needed to gain a level. Supposedly penalises (presumably) all actions. No visible effect on statistics. Opinion: Wow. The XP bonus is very impressive, and my testing so far seems to show there isn't any obviously enormous penalty. If you want an XP bonus, try this out in a small scenario; if you find it doesn't ruin you, by all means use it.

 

Races:

 

Nephil: 100 more XP needed to gain a level. Gives +2 to Dexterity at level 1 and a further +1 on every level divisible by 8. Supposedly gives a bonus to combat with missile weapons. Opinion: For such a small XP penalty, and considering that your race doesn't count toward the 2-trait limit, it's a pretty good idea to make your archers Nephilim.

 

Slith: 200 more XP needed to gain a level. Increases fire resistance by 35%, and supposedly gives a bonus to combat with polearms. Opinion: Fire resistance is an okay thing to have, but it doesn't justify the significant XP penalty in itself, and I'm not sure how powerful the polearm bonus is.

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just my 2 cents... but unbalancing in a game where you play only against the computer isnt all that big a deal (imho)

 

If you think it makes it too easy, resist the lure (JOIN ME! i'll never join you!!) and dont use it.

 

Unbalancing only really matters (i believe at least) in games where you play against other people, where it no longer becomes skill, it becomes what items/abilities you have, rather than just pure skill in playing.

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In a sense, you're playing against the designer. When the players and designers are on first-name terms, as is the case in the BoE/BoA community, this is more than just an abstract truth; it's something that the more active community members take into active consideration.

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Well, I admit my strategy could use some work, but here's my contribution to this already abominable thread...

 

My structure (and I use this same party in every scenario... they're level 50 now):

 

-Fighter: Yes, he's a bit of a tank. With the Halberd of Calindor (thank you Kelandon) he can deal absurdly huge amounts of damage, sometimes close to 400. I've found stuff like Plate of Electrocution (or Razor Plate... that kind of works) helps soften up attackers a bit. He has a passing acquaintance with Priest Spells (healing & blessing himself). Also, he's loaded down with extra AP items (though everyone in my party is by now). Lots of Quick Strike and Blademaster really help with this, and he's got huge amounts of Pole/Melee Weapons skill. However, I learned not to make him too strong thanks to Kelandon's interesting trick in Bahssikava (turning your first character against you). He had Manslaughter then, and it was impossible to get by him (I had to take his weapons from him before trying again).

 

-Archer/Rogue/Assassin - A bit of all three, with some basic Mage Spells thrown in. And he's a Nephil. Lots of Sharpshooter, Bows, Dexterity (to get high combat priority), and Melee. Absurdly huge Tool Use (I think I might've used the Char. Editor a bit). Nimble Fingers & Fast on Feet definitely help. For some reason I had him using Hendrickson's crossbow, but Alderague is much better. Nothing but Acid/Blessed Bolts, and he carries Manslaughter now that my fighter has Calindor's Halberd.

 

-Mage - Ever since he got Morog's Scepter, he's been very useful. Anything that can't burn gets smited by that scepter. 11 Luck right now, 16 Magery, and 9 Magical Eff. Natural Mage, of course. For equipment, Robe of the Magi, Dagger of Defense, Miracle Shield, and of course the Scepter.

I'd like to speak up for mages, as well. Fireblast has saved me quite a few times, particularly for those melee-immune monsters (Dark Chitrachs in Bahssikava) which my priest just can't quite do much to. Slow also helps quite a bit, for when you just need that moment's reprieve.

 

-Priest - My priest is a slith, and she's naturally got high Priest Spells, along with Potion Making and Magery (a bit of Mag. Eff. as well). Potion Making really does work wonders, and it really lowers your dependency on the Character Editor. She wields a sling (blessed), the Black Dress of Speed, a Magic Slith Spear, and she has enough combat stats to do a bit of damage (not much, but still helpful).

 

Anyway, this format has served me well, and is getting me through Bahssikava with minimal difficulty (except for the part when your 1st character goes crazy).

 

As a side note, I find an interesting challenge in fielding an all-priest party (like the Anama, but not quite), all with huge Nature Lore scores. I dub it a Druid party, and I'm looking at ways of improving it (not surprisingly, everyone in that party wields special weapons from my still-in-development scenario).

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