Jump to content

Does +% Hit Chance counter Evasion?


Buzko

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

I've read through Randomizer's Queen's Wish: The Conqueror - Game Advice page, and while a lot of it is very helpful guidance, I'm a bit confused by the Combat section.  Specifically, how +% Hit Chance and Evasion interact.  

 

Does stacking  +% Hit Chance runes and rings counter an enemy's Evasion stat?  I assumed that was the case, but the discussion in that thread makes it seem like they're separate things.  

 

Thanks!

 

Buzko

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hit chance and evasion are almost certainly ONE CHECK.

 

It has been one check in every other Spiderweb game ever released.  Base hit chance + all hit bonuses - all evasion bonuses.

 

Clearly, dodging happens more often in this game, and that has led some people to conclude that there are two different checks.

 

But other changes could lead to the same behavior.  And while Jeff hasn't addressed this directly, other things he's written strongly imply that it's just one check.  On Steam he wrote, answering a player who wanted to "lower enemies evasion": "Most enemies should have a pretty low evasion, and there are a lot of items that increase hit chance."

 

That's far more conclusive than anything anyone has said to support this "two checks" hypothesis.  Please stop presenting it as fact.  It's not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In previous games it was that way, but the on screen and console texts are different in this game than previous ones. In Avernum and Avadon, in beta versions, the monster's to hit chance of hitting a player character clearly changed with adding or removing evasion items by the exact value. Jeff removed that number in the final released versions from the console text at the bottom. In past games evasion was added to defensive bonus for level and equipment, and dexterity or endurance against attack type.

 

This game shows different messages where dodging happens inline with the monster's evasion rate chance and not a total to hit chance with all the above to hit and defensive penalties. You can see it best when a high level party goes back to clear a low level dungeon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Randomizer said:

This game shows different messages where dodging happens inline with the monster's evasion rate chance and not a total to hit chance with all the above to hit and defensive penalties. You can see it best when a high level party goes back to clear a low level dungeon.

This in no way requires there to be two different rolls.  It could easily be set up so that a different message is displayed depending on what the roll result is.  Say there's a base hit chance of 80%, a to-hit bonus of +10% and an evasion score of 20%.  You might get:

1-70: hit

71-90: dodge

91-00: miss

 

As I've said before, I'm happy to acknowledge that the issue is ambiguous.  My problem is with stating that it is two rolls with the same definitiveness that we talk about other game mechanics that we do have a pretty conclusive understanding of.  We've had issues with urban legends about game mechanics before: remember the "invisible -36% Torment armor penalty" that turns out to never have existed, but that we all thought was a thing for years, in part because it was presented so confidently?  That led to a lot of counterproductive advice being given out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My gripe is that Jeff hasn't in the past distinguished miss and evade as separate messages. This is a different enough game that he made changes to how combat is done from his previous games. While he might have intended what you say, we do know that in the past he doesn't always implement it (Blades with abilities) or forgets what he has done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Randomizer said:

My gripe is that Jeff hasn't in the past distinguished miss and evade as separate messages. This is a different enough game that he made changes to how combat is done from his previous games. While he might have intended what you say, we do know that in the past he doesn't always implement it (Blades with abilities) or forgets what he has done.

Which is fine, but none of that in any way supports not only assuming one of multiple plausible theories is true, but presenting it as repeatable fact.

 

5 hours ago, Simulated Knave said:

The game's not hard to mod. Has someone tried testing this?

Many aspects of the game aren't hard to mod.  Combat formulas are not one of those aspects.  Testing could be done, but I'm not sure modding would make that any easier or harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, but it's not very hard to find different evasion and accuracy numbers on enemies, and it's even easier to create them on yourself (change equips/skills).  I mean, go for it, just seems like a lot of trouble.

 

Setting one to zero won't reduce anything to you-only-need-one-test status, since there are very possibly default hit numbers -- not listed in the defs files -- that start out in the middle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know Jeff sometimes doesn't emphasize revealing the mechanics behind his games, but I'd be surprised if he didn't respond if someone sent him a polite email asking him for details on this, which would resolve the issue once and for all. I don't feel strongly about it myself, but it's probably the only reliable way to get answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...