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Leaders of the Empire?


Aran

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This is a very interesting topic and I would like to make a comment, but could only bring myself to read the first very long page and a half. So excuse me if this has been talked about. I agree with Drakefyre's earlier comment that a doomed empire is not very encouraging. Unfortuanately, I have not played Echoes. How cataclysmic is this collapse? Would it be reasonable for the empire to be reestablished after a couple centuries of chaos?

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Calling an amulet a "Sylvian Amulet" is like calling an amulet the "Human Amulet". Sylvians are still an existant species. :p (Especially in the 1870s, when the Empire is controlled by one.)

 

I suppose that this archmage could be a remnant from the anti-Solar league of Blackrock. But then again, I severely doubt that any of you would know what that is. I'll give a brief (although far from complete, and rightfully so- that's part of the core story of Echoes) history of the Sylvians.

 

Years -100,000 through -80,000: Vantanas is covered in Elves, which apart from being completely unrecorded, are also considered to be the proto-form of Sylvians. Humans are only barely beginning to evolve.

 

Years -80,000 through -50,000: The northern half of Vantanas where most humans are begins to split. Interbreeding between humans and elves prove quite rapidly that certain genomes will become dominant very quickly, eventually resulting in a new, nearly homogeneous specie that produces its own offspring from both human and elven seed. Around year 60,000, N. Vantanas has split completely from S. Vantanas, forming two seperate continents. (N. Vantanas has yet to be re-discovered, and is also known as TMU, which the B2-betatesters would recognize.) Around year 50,000, genetic diseases and more-dominant Sylvian/Human genes have swallowed up the elven population to the point of extinction. At this point, the average Sylvian is 90-70% human, 10-30% elven. Rakshasi have completed their evolution towards the east, with the Sylvians taking up most of the west.

 

Years 50,000-1,000: Small communities and tribes form. No language, very little evolution. Seismic activity on the half of Vantanas that isn't TMU is close to none. TMU is firmly in its place, wedged between the tremendous Doston and Pralgad/N. Valorim tectonic plates.

 

Year -500: Rakshasi form Tanmaii De (the Rakshasic language- I'm actually working on making it) and Rak De (It means "The people are" in Tanmaii De. Quite literally, its the name of their nation in its primitive form) in -450. Sylvians form Ylondiac, the primitive name of their loose, tribal congregation, in -350. The city of Blackrock is formed, and a crude language is invented.

 

Year -200: Rakshasi are forced into the cavernous universe of Arngoth by the Dragon Shale in -224. Wasazore, Vic Sniper and Ezekiel crash-land on TMU and form a civilization in -217. Wasazore is ousted from leadership in -192, the Great Emmigration follows in -191. Humans on TMU (aka "N. Vantanas", the continent seperated ~60,000) land on Vantanas in -190 and fail to create a civilization. Humans land on Pralgad and Doston in -189, the latter fails. Humans land on Aizo and Valorim in -188, the latter fails. Pralgad and Aizo are in states of relative chaos, with multiple powerful lords claiming territory and fighting amongst themselves. Rebellion in Blackrock breaks out in -178, when the underground organization called the Anti-Solar League commits terrorism in the headquarters of the Solar Order, a prominent religious institution among Sylvians. A ritual is disrupted on a fluke by a seven-year old apprentice of a powerful yet obscure mage. The mage named Balathermo and his apprentice flee the Order, and Vantanas. It is rumored that perhaps others from the Anti-Solar League may have escaped the Order, but this is as of yet unconfirmed. Balathermo manages to escape via boat to Aizo in -177, where his name is slowly turned into Baltimore. His apprentice also made it to Aizo, but he disappeared shortly after the rebellion in Blackrock and didn't make it to Aizo with Baltimore. Nobody knows what happened to him to this date. (A cookie goes to whoever knows the name of Baltimore's former-apprentice.) Baltimore spends the following 32 years trying to unite the factions on Aizo before finally succeeding and crowning himself Emperor.

 

(Yeah. That was the brief history. :p )

 

----

 

The collapse of the Empire in Echoes pretty much smashes any hopes of the Empire continuing as-we-know-it. Aizo is completely destroyed, and nothing lives on it. Doston was purposefully lowered into the ocean, and everyone on it was drowned. The capital of the Empire (Solaria) was destroyed, along with all of the other large cities on Pralgad. Valorim is, well, mostly destroyed as well. And Vantanas is at the center of where the collapse comes from. Some people survive, enough so that Ermarian isn't doomed. But any power the Empire may have had is either smashed, or is heavilly reduced, and scattered among the remaining power-hungry Dervishes.

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All right. I need some way to make the leaders of the Aizonic Empire special. It could enhance the elvish parts of normal humans, making them more powerful.

 

I still think the Emperors should be becoming more and more human over time just because of blood mixing. Hawthorne and Prazac would have very little of the original elvish bloodline in them by that point. It is possible that as the Empire declines after At the Gallows, a more pure bloodline seizes the throne.

 

Phrizoc's origins will not be revealed at this time. He does not belong to any faction and has no political ambitions. His motivations are unknown as of yet and his activities are quite indirect. He probably wanted to create an Empire spanning the world for some reason. Exactly why, is yet unknown.

 

I do not want to see a major cataclysm kill the Empire, at least while it is strong. I have the Empire declining after At the Gallows. Although we can have a major event, the Empire should already be on its last legs by that point.

 

Basically, I, like many members here, have a very hard time accepting a huge cataclysm and much of the Echoes storyline as an official storyline. The changes are radical and the scenarios are not extremely popular within the community. That says nothing about your design skills, it just means that the Echoes storyline has failed to capture the audiences of many. I know of very few people who can really explain it. However, if we take Alcritas, his scenarios are very popular and can probably be explained by most people in the community who have been around a while. I tried playing many of the Echoes storylines, and they are really hard to latch onto and often the fights are a bit too challenging. I would be a lot less uneasy if at least one of the Echoes scenarios would be considered one of the best scenarios.

 

That does not mean to suggest that your additions to the history are any less valid than mine. It's just it feels like right now we just have a very small number of people making fairly important decisions about the official history of the universe. Scenario designers may have any unofficial history they like, but if we want to make an official history, we need to have more than what we have right now. I feel Drakefyre should definitely weigh in on this conversation before everything we say is set in stone.

 

I probably do not want all of my parts in the official line. Basically, I have the Empire go into decline after At the Gallows. The Empire as it exists, pretty much begins to fade into the centuries as it slowly loses power. Like Rome, eventually no one feels the same allegance and patriotism to the old Imperial order. The rulers and elites have mostly taken to fighting for themselves. Nobody really cares when the last official Emperor is dethroned, they are too busy trying to survive in a harsh and dying world that has been drained of much of its resources.

 

This pretty much gives about 1800-2000 years during the Imperial era. Eventually humanity finds different ways to survive as societies are slowly rebuilt. If I ever get to this era, I will show what follows.

 

Which way we wish to have the decline/fall of the Empire (if any) is up to the community. We could compromise the two, or do nothing. Either way, no one member should be making arbitrary decisions without consulting other veterans.

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On second thought, the collapse of the Empire provides some interesting possibilities. Since it should be eons before the fading of the Emarianite sun makes life impossible, and since human conditions can change dramatically in relatively short periods of time, the collapse makes anything possible.

 

With the Empire gone you would need only go perhaps a few decades into the future before you could propose whatever kind of small government you wanted. Small kingdoms could be established very quickly. Or we can even go a ways into the future and have a new empire.

 

While it would have been nice to have the Empire last a little longer, its collapse does make for some interesting possibilities.

 

P.S. Why does it not surprise me that TM couldn't just destroy the Empire alone. He had to take out continents and disrupt pretty much all life on Emarian. :rolleyes:

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I agree heartily. Leave elves out of here. They don't fit on a world like this.

 

EDIT: Funny, how the first sentence still fits, though it's too late. I agree that killing off the Empire sounds really nasty to me.

 

Apart from that: I'm technically a newbie here, so I shouldn't complain about anything, but I didn't like that history for some reason.

 

Two things: The splitting of Vantanas into North and South Vantanas - how does this connect to this map ? Is that North or South Vantanas according to this history - or is it even completely obsolete? mad

 

The second: What about Zion I., founder of the Aizonian Empire, as we had already established IIRC. confused

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Stareye- There is one odd skill I was planning to have Baltimore use in a scenario about his (and Katothen's) past, whenever I was to get around to making it. That is, Sword Magic. Balathermo was a sword mage. What does this mean? He knows two spells- Soul Augment, and Soul Disengage. The first places some of his life force in a specially-designed sword, giving the sword an ability (beefed-up stats, defense, fireballs, etc.). The second ends the effects of the first, and gives Baltimore some of his life force back. You could have this be a skill of Aizoan emperors. (I'm itching to make a scenario with sword magic in it.)

 

Elves are extinct. They weren't the arrogant, elder race you're all used to from Tolkien. They were proto-Sylvian, frail cavemen who beat each other around with sticks. They were also genetically inferior, which is why most of the human genomes swallowed them up. Of course, while Sylvian genes are dominant, the fact that most Sylvians with the exception of Katothen, Baltimore and very few others actually made it off of Vantanas means that the sheer numbers ensure that humans will outnumber Sylvians by a longshot. Of course, because most Imperial nobility is 100% Sylvian, this also means that all Emperors up to Hawthorne III. were Sylvian. Not that it makes a difference, because Sylvians and humans can reproduce together, and are extremely close to each other anyway. The only people on Ermarian who can tell apart the differences between Sylvians and Humans are the only people who call the language spoken by the Empire "Lower Takmannean" (again, B2 beta-testers should know what I'm getting at here).

 

Along the lines of the Empire collapsing- Well, eh. The Arena already has a few conditions of collapse that I've had to edit Echoes to (Doston's rising after the First Cataclysm being one). I'm not sure that anyone else has really commented with any other suggestions for the collapse of the Empire, and it's not like I didn't leave enough time (+2000 years, if you count Aizo) for scenarios. Point is, the Arena exists, and it exists after the Empire's collapse. Some explanation is indeed necessary, and I tackled this one head-on, because I saw nobody else in sight going after it.

 

About the Vantanasian Map: You see that concave curve in the NW corner of the continent? That used to be where N. Vantanas used to be. It's basically a large continent approx. 2/3 the size of Australia.

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Stareye- There is one odd skill I was planning to have Baltimore use in a scenario about his (and Katothen's) past, whenever I was to get around to making it. That is, Sword Magic. Balathermo was a sword mage. What does this mean? He knows two spells- Soul Augment, and Soul Disengage. The first places some of his life force in a specially-designed sword, giving the sword an ability (beefed-up stats, defense, fireballs, etc.). The second ends the effects of the first, and gives Baltimore some of his life force back. You could have this be a skill of Aizoan emperors. (I'm itching to make a scenario with sword magic in it.) The doomsday weapon/artifact (if you need one)? A Soulsword (a sword capable of Soul Augment) that casts a nuclear blast. More than enough of a threat. :p

 

Elves are extinct. They weren't the arrogant, elder race you're all used to from Tolkien. They were proto-Sylvian, frail cavemen who beat each other around with sticks. They were also genetically inferior, which is why most of the human genomes swallowed them up. The only person who still knows that the elves existed was Icabod. Of course, while Sylvian genes are dominant, the fact that most Sylvians with the exception of Katothen, Baltimore and very few others actually made it off of Vantanas means that the sheer numbers ensure that humans will outnumber Sylvians by a longshot. Of course, because most Imperial nobility is 100% Sylvian, this also means that all Emperors up to Hawthorne III. were Sylvian. Not that it makes a difference, because Sylvians and humans can reproduce together, and are extremely close to each other anyway. The only people on Ermarian who can tell apart the differences between Sylvians and Humans are the only people who call the language spoken by the Empire "Lower Takmannean" (again, B2 beta-testers should know what I'm getting at here).

 

Along the lines of the Empire collapsing- Well, eh. The Arena already has a few conditions of collapse that I've had to edit Echoes to (Doston's rising after the First Cataclysm being one). I'm not sure that anyone else has really commented with any other suggestions for the collapse of the Empire, and it's not like I didn't leave enough time (+2000 years, if you count Aizo) for scenarios. Point is, the Arena exists, and it exists after the Empire's collapse. Some explanation is indeed necessary, and I tackled this one head-on, because I saw nobody else in sight going after it.

 

About the Vantanasian Map: You see that concave curve in the NW corner of the continent? That used to be where N. Vantanas used to be. It's basically a large continent approx. 2/3 the size of Australia.

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I feel uncomfortable with creating this kind of list and history, and here's why:

There are too many histories of the Empire; and any 'official' one would break a lot of good scenarios' plots. If a scenario relies on the Empire collapsing hours after Prazac dubs the party Dervishes, who's going to stop them? There's no canon to argue with that sort of thing. Furthermore, TM and Stareye have both done a great job of filling in backplot, to the point that emperors who aren't even mentioned in Echoes get filled into charts and fleshed out. The priblem is that they're far, far too conclusive; if we are to limit the plot to the confines of the imaginations of Stareye and TM, we might as well limit the creation of scenarios in the Exile and Avernum universes to Stareye and TM.

 

It's fine and good to make these plotlines, but so far as I can see, only two good, coherent stories about the Empire past the Exile/Avernum series are around, and they're impossible to reconcile with one another. I agree with *i -- we shouldn't create plotlines unilaterally here, and we certainly shouldn't expect anyone to go by them.

 

TM, in case no one has told you this yet, this is fan fiction. You are not a SW employee; your work might be particularly interesting fan fiction, but it is nonetheless non-canon. You want to create a plotline for your own scenarios, open a topic called 'The Empire According To Echoes'. It's dangerous to a community like this to start calling third-party plotlines canon.

 

Just my $.02 here.

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Quote:
Originally written by General Custer:
If a scenario relies on the Empire collapsing hours after Prazac dubs the party Dervishes, who's going to stop them?
You're right, nobody can stop a person from making a scenario. So why are you complaining, huh?

We aren't doing this to put designers in kinky bondage sex with a sadistic dominatrix. We're doing this to make the Exile story far more complete and interesting. If you want to make your own history, then by all means do. I just enjoy a detailed world-system far more than an open-ended one, and most people who are collaborating to make this history do as well. (At least I'm assuming they do, which by its nature is indeed a fair assumption to make.)
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Yes, like TM said, of course there is no obligation whatsoever to conform to this history, just like there is no obligation to set a scenario in Ermarian. This is not meant to restrict designers, but aid them by being a means to have a consistent world: There won't be anything in it that a designer couldn't find out by playing all scenarios and asking the veterans, it's just easier to access because it's all on one site. smile

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I'm inclined to agree with General Custer here. There's more then enough room for everyone to create their own alternate history - there's no need for an "official" one. There's going to be an influx of new designers once BoA comes out, all with new ideas. Let's try not to constrain their creativity before BoA even comes out.

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I said it before; this is not supposed constraining, it's supposed to be helpful.

 

If you want a scenario that sticks totally to the 'Jeff-developed' part of the world, there is only little room for the scenario, since there is almost no information apart from the immediate present in the games.

 

So designers have to either invent new stuff, or - preferrably I must say, though it's not obligatory - play through a whole lot of scenarios already done to find info apart from that which Jeff made. However, there are some problems: As we can already see, TM and Stareye - two really experienced veterans at Spidweb - have different theories on the founding of the Empire. So this site is only intended as one standard (not the standard) to avoid confusion.

 

Of course, once it's done, I still hope to contact Jeff and ask him if he can check the stuff. But that doesn't mean scenarios have to be conformed to this.

 

If there is no standard like this, eventually every designer is going to have a unique theory and belief on every single thing in Ermarian that no one else agrees with, and while this is certainly a great freedom for the designers, anyone playing the scenarios - and especially newbies who don't know what each designer believes - is going to be hopelessly lost as to how to reconcile these different realities into one world.

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I see your point. However, I do see a bit of conflict that could arise between you and the "veterans", perhaps between TM and Stareye. If you're the only person creating a timeline, then people will treat it as "official" timeline, then everyone will want their own interests safeguarded.

 

The only thing that can arise from that is conflict.

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Naturally, when there is an attempt to reconcile different world views, there will be conflict - it's a law of nature :rolleyes: The objective here is to minimalize this conflict, not avoid or postpone it. The later this is cleared up, the bigger the confusion and conflict will be in the end.

 

Note that when I say 'conflict', I mean 'disagreement', not 'flame war'. There's a difference. A conflict doesn't need to be resolved in flames, and I really hope it will not come to that.

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I'm awfully sorry for the double post, but we got a little sidetracked here, and this thread has been kinda inactive lately. So to wrap up:

 

The thing currently in development is the timeline of emperors of the Aizonian Empire, and what is currently going on - seemingly - is that TM and Stareye have two different versions of the founding of said Empire. It'd probably be best if we could try to reconcile these versions, because the history articles can only be written once the facts are all known.

 

The current versions of the Aizonian Empire being born, to summarize:

 

Quote:

Originally written by Stareye

"According to legend, over thousand years before the Empire on Pralgad, the immortal archwizard named Phrizoc appeared. His magical talents were unparalleled at the time and is said to be responsible for the creation of many the world's most powerful artifacts.

 

One such artifact is the so-called Amulet of Phrizoc or the Sylvian Amulet. It was worn by the Emperors of the Aizonic Empire, although historians have yet to confirm that fact. The amulet is said to transform the wearer over time, giving him or her incredible powers and longevity. These augments allowed the wearers to dominate over other normal humans and eventually led to a ruling class. Some believe that these transformations allowed the Emperors of the Aizonic Empire to live extraordinarily long lives and pass on the powers to their children. Of course, this is all speculation.

 

Sometime after the collapse of the Aizonic Empire, the Amulet of Phrizoc was lost. Although records document its existence, evidence of its true power remains a mystery. Although there are numerous stories of its path, none of them have ever been validated.

 

As for Phrizoc, his existence is even less documented. Many historians doubt of his existence at all. The legend says that opponents of the Aizonic Empire managed to track Phrizoc to an island far in the ocean. They managed to defeat the wizard, but he could not be destroyed. He was entombed with the strongest magics in his Citadel and abandoned. The location of the island was removed from all maps and was forgotten. Since then, Phrizoc's island has never been found and many doubt it ever existed at all.

 

Unfortunately, there is very little evidence for any of these stories. However, much of what we know about the Aizonic Empire has come from tales and legend which later have been validated, but only by a scrap of evidence. So perhaps these tales have a grain of truth in them..."

Quote:

Originally written by TM

Years -100,000 through -80,000: Vantanas is covered in Elves, which apart from being completely unrecorded, are also considered to be the proto-form of Sylvians. Humans are only barely beginning to evolve.

Years -80,000 through -50,000: The northern half of Vantanas where most humans are begins to split. Interbreeding between humans and elves prove quite rapidly that certain genomes will become dominant very quickly, eventually resulting in a new, nearly homogeneous specie that produces its own offspring from both human and elven seed. Around year 60,000, N. Vantanas has split completely from S. Vantanas, forming two seperate continents. (N. Vantanas has yet to be re-discovered, and is also known as TMU, which the B2-betatesters would recognize.) Around year 50,000, genetic diseases and more-dominant Sylvian/Human genes have swallowed up the elven population to the point of extinction. At this point, the average Sylvian is 90-70% human, 10-30% elven. Rakshasi have completed their evolution towards the east, with the Sylvians taking up most of the west.

Years 50,000-1,000: Small communities and tribes form. No language, very little evolution. Seismic activity on the half of Vantanas that isn't TMU is close to none. TMU is firmly in its place, wedged between the tremendous Doston and Pralgad/N. Valorim tectonic plates.

Year -500: Rakshasi form Tanmaii De (the Rakshasic language- I'm actually working on making it) and Rak De (It means "The people are" in Tanmaii De. Quite literally, its the name of their nation in its primitive form) in -450. Sylvians form Ylondiac, the primitive name of their loose, tribal congregation, in -350. The city of Blackrock is formed, and a crude language is invented.

Year -200: Rakshasi are forced into the cavernous universe of Arngoth by the Dragon Shale in -224. Wasazore, Vic Sniper and Ezekiel crash-land on TMU and form a civilization in -217. Wasazore is ousted from leadership in -192, the Great Emmigration follows in -191. Humans on TMU (aka "N. Vantanas", the continent seperated ~60,000) land on Vantanas in -190 and fail to create a civilization. Humans land on Pralgad and Doston in -189, the latter fails. Humans land on Aizo and Valorim in -188, the latter fails. Pralgad and Aizo are in states of relative chaos, with multiple powerful lords claiming territory and fighting amongst themselves. Rebellion in Blackrock breaks out in -178, when the underground organization called the Anti-Solar League commits terrorism in the headquarters of the Solar Order, a prominent religious institution among Sylvians. A ritual is disrupted on a fluke by a seven-year old apprentice of a powerful yet obscure mage. The mage named Balathermo and his apprentice flee the Order, and Vantanas. It is rumored that perhaps others from the Anti-Solar League may have escaped the Order, but this is as of yet unconfirmed. Balathermo manages to escape via boat to Aizo in -177, where his name is slowly turned into Baltimore. His apprentice also made it to Aizo, but he disappeared shortly after the rebellion in Blackrock and didn't make it to Aizo with Baltimore. Nobody knows what happened to him to this date. (A cookie goes to whoever knows the name of Baltimore's former-apprentice.) Baltimore spends the following 32 years trying to unite the factions on Aizo before finally succeeding and crowning himself Emperor.

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1. Concerning "no elves". I totally agree with that, it's not me you're trying to convince here. :p

 

2. Concerning size, I don't know what you imagine when you think of elves, but I get this picture of Tolkien's Eldar in my head, slender build, longer life-spans, usually taller (!) than humans. It would seem that TM has imagined the elves on Aizo to be rather like primitive caveman, biologically like Eldar, but not as civilized. So no one is saying anything about these elves being tiny.

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Quote:
2. Concerning size, I don't know what you imagine when you think of elves, but I get this picture of Tolkien's Eldar in my head, slender build, longer life-spans, usually taller (!) than humans. It would seem that TM has imagined the elves on Aizo to be rather like primitive caveman, biologically like Eldar, but not as civilized. So no one is saying anything about these elves being tiny.
Well he did mention that he wasn't going for the Tolkein style Elf, and so I presumed he was meaning the traditional elf... i.e. little faerie type creatures.

And another point. I remember once reading (years ago) something from Jeff saying he specifically left Elves out of the Exile trilogy/BoE because he didn't like the whole idea of elves (and other particular parts of fantasy) that was created by Tolkein and post-Tolkien writers.
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1. TM said that interbreeding took place, so his definition could hardly have been that of a tiny fairy creature. So when he says that they interbreeded, by definition he must have meant elves that were large enough.

 

2. Well, that's a matter of taste, for my part I've always been fascinated by elves, both in Tolkien's (and later writers') books, and in RPGs - my BoE scenario will also contain them, albeit in another world. It's just that I feel elves and Ermarian should be separated, and I somehow don't like the idea of primitive, prehistoric elves living as cavemen. It seems undignified.

 

Edit: :rolleyes: Okay. This is getting ridiculous. I make a post about the two histories between which to choose from (I'm not saying someone can't post their own suggestion here btw), and over 24 hours there's only one vague comment about elves not fitting into the world (which I agree with btw). I'd make a poll, but there don't seem to be that many choices yet and I think we should have more of an discussion before there's a poll. I'm editing this post because I don't want to purposely double-post again in the same thread, so I just have to hope someone reads this thread again in spite of there being no new post. C'mon, y'all. Suggest something. :p

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I think potatoes from outer space came, transformed themselves into human form, and founded the Empire. :p

 

I think it likely that TM's chosen description of elves is the way it is in part just to be very different from my elves which made up my faction when I visited the arena.

 

I must agree with Arancaytar that there should be no elves on Emarian. (My elves came from another world anyway) I also must say that TM's description just doesn't match up with any possible decription of elves I can think up. I am forced to think of them being a totally different species. The best I can visualize is cavemen with pointy ears.

 

But like we've all said, if TM wants elves he can go right ahead, who's going to stop him?

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Ok, slightly offtopic question.....

Quote:
The best I can visualize is cavemen with pointy ears.
Where did this pointy ear crap come from? I was amazed to see pointy ears of the elves in the Lord of the Rings movies... I found it completely bizzarre. I had never imagined anything liek that. Anyway, where's the source of this idea that elves have pointy ears?
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This topic took ages to read and the whole central section is of Arancaytar and Zharrad discussing graphics, which was franky boring. I'm just wondering if anyone can show me a map of the whole of Ermarian. It doesn't have to be detailed, just some vague outlines where all the continents are in relation to each other.

Just a coupla questions....

  • Where did the name "Ermarian" come from? Who made it up, cos it definitely wasn't in any of the main "canon" games as far as I know.
  • Is Exile/Avernum part of Ermarian or does it count as a separate world? What about Vahnatai lands?
  • Can someone make a similar timeline for Exile? (Has it been made?)
  • Does Exile still exist at the time of AtG or Echoes? Has it become a completely Vahnatai (or similar) land?
  • In TM's version of the world do the elves still exist in the North continent?
  • Can potatoes really evolve into people? wink
  • edit: Isn't there a theory where the Vahnatai once covered the entire surface world and they created all the sentient species with their magic?

confusedconfusedconfusedconfused

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*sigh* Here:

 

Ermarian Human

Height: 4'-7'

Weight: 100-300 lbs

Eye Colors: Blue, Brown, Hazel, Green, Grey

Hair Colors: Blonde, Red, Black, Brown, and Grey (although through age, not natural)

Facial Features: N/A (Humans are the basic template from which comparisons are made.

 

Ermarian Sylvian

Height: 5'-7'

Weight: 100-300 lbs

Eye Colors: Red*, Blue, Green, Brown, Hazel (* Extremely rare. Also the eye colors of Baltimore I and Baltimore XXXVI.)

Hair Colors: Black, Blonde, Brown

Facial Features: Slightly hollow cheeks, varyingly pointed ears but never by more than 2 centimeters, sharper chin and nose (although weight can round out the face, as it did for many emperors including Baltimore XXXVI).

 

Ermarian Proto-Sylvian ("Elf")

Height: 6'-8'

Weight: 70-150 lbs* (*Based partially on the complete lack of any agriculture/civilization)

Eye Colors: Red, Black, Hazel, Green

Hair Colors: Blonde, Grey, Brown

Facial Features: Hollow cheeks, sharp figures that are nearly impossible to round out by weight (unlike Sylvians), pointed ears, frail figures.

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And when did the Vahnatai occupy the surface? I guess I know who we'd have to ask here: Drakey. :p Anyone know if he's still gone, or if yes, how long till he'll be back?

 

Orangutan (if I may call you that laugh ), yes, the thread has gone off-topic after a while; you can skip over all of that map/site design/graphics discussion, it's irrelevant to this history. If you want to have the whole map of Ermarian (the only one currently existing is a little inaccurate, I've been told) you can get one here .

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Q:Where did the name "Ermarian" come from? Who made it up, cos it definitely wasn't in any of the main "canon" games as far as I know.

A: Ask an older member of the Arena.

 

Q: Is Exile/Avernum part of Ermarian or does it count as a separate world? What about Vahnatai lands?

A: As we found out in Exile 1, Exile and the surface are actually connected (it's one of the three "major" quests). And as we found out in Exile 2, there is a physical route to the Vahnatai lands. Therefore, we can safely assume that all of them are on the same planet.

 

Q:Can someone make a similar timeline for Exile? (Has it been made?)

A: Making a timeline for Exile would be pointless, because you'd only have one ruler (Micah).

 

Q: Does Exile still exist at the time of AtG or Echoes? Has it become a completely Vahnatai (or similar) land?

A: During Echoes? I don't really care, and Stareye's scenarios say that the Sliths hold alot of Exile, so I'll just go with that.

 

Q: In TM's version of the world do the elves still exist in the North continent?

A: Elves have been extinct completely for thousands and thousands of years. There are none left alive on Ermarian, period. Hell, magically reviving any of them would be difficult, considering how long they've been dead. But really, what's this "North continent" you're talking about?

 

Q: Isn't there a theory where the Vahnatai once covered the entire surface world and they created all the sentient species with their magic?

A: It's a theory I don't believe in, but I doubt it matters either way.

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By the way, concerning the arena in relation to this topic: The arena is now seemingly several millenia in the future from the Avernum trilogy (6000 Years I think), and has developed a load of history that has never been developed in any scenarios, while the last scenario seems to be somewhere at 3000 IE. I'd say we break off the BoE/BoA related Ermarian history there, since what happens afterwards has nothing to do with the scenarios.

 

And, to paraphrase some of the people posting here: "It restricts the freedom of the designer too much if a load of history is included". :p

 

While I disagree as long as the history in question is already developed in scenarios (that should be a criterion IMHO), it definitely applies to the 6000 years of Arena History.

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The declining Empire was part of the original arena (Lord Arkanor, anyone?). Part of what led to its downfall were the Centurion Avengers which sent Valorim and parts of Doston into unrest with organized competent rebellions.

 

I've looked over this topic and I will give more thoughts over the next week or so.

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Glad to see you're back, Drakey.

 

I don't feel like piecing... pieces of this topic together to get information, so I'm just gunna ask:

 

What do we know about these "Centurion Avengers"? What are they? Where'd they come from? Why did they come? Would they be a reasonable force for putting in scenarios?

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Quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:
TM is a little off. Doston was actually part of Aixo before the fall of the Empire. Aixo used to be much larger and somewhat more mountainous. At some point during or after the fall of the Empire, the continent split in half.
Thuryl? Aizo is not spelled with an X. And yeah, Doston was its own island. Sorry. (I have a particular disdain for Arkanor's collapse of the Empire. I could write a more imaginative ending with less than .5k characters and 5 minutes.)

Drakey- Anything with two brain cells together should be taken for more worth than the "ingenious" plotlines of Lord Arkanor. Christ, how low do you think of me? Don't waste my time with this rubbish.
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Okay, as I take it, the history written by Lord Arkanor is part of the arena, and it's not well-liked.

 

Is there anything at all that should be taken into official history from the arena, not being part of scenarios? Custer raised a point here about 'non-canon' stuff messing the thing up. I'm not sure about Drakey's site, since Jeff more or less approved that one, but should the arena history also be included?

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I think that the only things that should be taken as canon are the rulers from Sol I to Prazac, as there is an easy established history and accurate timeline there.

 

TM, don't snap at Thuryl. Just because other people have different ideas about the history that aren't as original and creative doesn't mean that they're inferior. And Aixo is now force of habit.

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Well, from one point of view, all of it is made up. :p

 

Some of the emperors are in the games by Spiderweb though - Prazac, Hawthorne I-III, and Stewart, some more maybe. (I think Sol is also in the spidweb games, but I'm not sure).

 

The rest is made up by the veterans here. It goes like this: I and some others ask questions, the veterans answer them, when we've got enough info we make a list. There's a version of the list online here: Encyclopedia / Emperor Reigns It's as simple as that. wink

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Quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar:
And when did the Vahnatai occupy the surface? I guess I know who we'd have to ask here: Drakey. :p Anyone know if he's still gone, or if yes, how long till he'll be back?

Orangutan (if I may call you that laugh ), yes, the thread has gone off-topic after a while; you can skip over all of that map/site design/graphics discussion, it's irrelevant to this history. If you want to have the whole map of Ermarian (the only one currently existing is a little inaccurate, I've been told) you can get one here .
Those oceans seem to me to be a bit too large, just so you know.
Yes, call me that but it should have a crøss over the ø.
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Well, Ørangutan (haha, that was easy!), the map wasn't made by me, so I can't do anything about it. Also, the map appears to be highly inaccurate concerning the current non-arena timeline, from what I heard. That's why I'm constantly asking how it really looks, but nobody wants to tell me... :p

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