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Snowwhite

Need Help Geneforge 2

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Am level 28 and an unaligned shaper.  The game has been a bit of a stretch but fun until now.  Now I am unable to survive in the locations to the west.  CAnnot kill the Gazer, Rothgart (sp?) or that other thing in the pit of misfits, can't kill Melancon, can[t shurive in Shath's waste etc.  Stats are:

 

Strength 5; Dexterity 2; Intelligence 15; Enudrance 2;  Shaping Fire 4; battle 2; magic 8; healing 4.  Leaderhips with some help from trinkets is 10 and mechanis is 11 and luck is 3.  The Glaaks I make can't touch a drayk, gazer, rothgart etc.  There doesn't seem to be a place top go to get respec'ed and I don't know what I hsould have done differently anyway.

 

Would appreciate help as otherwise I can't finish the game. 

 

Thanks in advance.

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Hmm...so, definitely some non-optimal choices when it comes to stats so far, but I don't think you're hopelessly doomed. Shapers don't really need Strength, for example, and generally you want to focus on just one type of shaping (E.g., Fire or Magic, not both).


The biggest thing to do is revisit previous zones and make sure you've fully explored them - any zone with black space on the map is a place that may have more loot / quests / walking XP (aka enemies) and/or another exit to a new zone. Check whether you have any open quests you might be able to complete in the zones you can reach, and talk to the NPCs to see if there are any quests you may have missed.

It's worth considering your creations. Which type(s) are you using? And how many? Given your stat investment, Magic creations seem like the way to go. There's a canister of Create Vlish in the Upper Research Hall, which it sounds like you should be able to get to, so that would be a good place to start if you don't already have at least Vlish. Make sure you don't waste essence boosting their stats - they need 2 Int at creation so you can control them, but otherwise don't spend essence on them. What are your combat tactics? As a shaper, you want your army of creations to do the heavy lifting while you focus on healing / buffing them (plus maybe the occasional bit of offensive magic).
 

In terms of where to go...have you made it to the southwest quadrant of the map, but are stymied getting into the northwest quadrant? Or have you not even go through the Barzite lands yet? In Pit of the Misfits, I think you can talk your way through with high enough Leadership. Alternatively, you may be able to go north from Western Pass and bribe your way through Taker Toll Road. (I believe the highest Leadership you can need in G2 is 12, so you're most of the way to that goal.)

This post has some good general advice for playing the Geneforge series; you may already know all this, but it might also give you new ideas for tactics. This walkthrough, though not infallible, has a good bit of useful information as well.

I don't know if any of this will be specific enough, but I hope it helps!

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Upload a save if you can.  Stats are a bit meaningless if we don't know how much comes from items, canisters etc.

 

I don't see how you can not finish the game tho, most areas are non-critical (shats and pit of misfits def can be skipped) and you can get into the taker labs with minimal combat.

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Thanks to Triumph and Nim. 

 

I have found the savegames in Steam.  The insert other media link below does not give me a clue as to how to upload a savegame.

 

I have used just about all the canisters that I have come across (wasn't a problem in G1 - now people are seeing me as strange and I have not been able to control yelling at some - oops)

 

It is good advice to go back to all the places that I have been and see if I didn't get somewhere.  I will do that.   I also went back to Sharons Grove and finally could kill all those monsters so I h ave made some progress.

 

Strange as it wasn't hard to finish Geneforge 1 at all.

 

The areas wherein I can't beat the big bads are Pit of Misfits;  Shaths Wastes;  Dead Pass;  Hermit Crossroads; Pit of the Bound (though I got all the way to the demon but can't land a hit at all); taker toll road off the road and Icy something or other.

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9 hours ago, Snowwhite said:

I have found the savegames in Steam.  The insert other media link below does not give me a clue as to how to upload a savegame.

Oh, I was thinking more about uploading it to some external site and then linking here, sorry for being unclear (smth like dropbox ? ).

9 hours ago, Snowwhite said:

The areas wherein I can't beat the big bads are Pit of Misfits;  Shaths Wastes;  Dead Pass;  Hermit Crossroads; Pit of the Bound (though I got all the way to the demon but can't land a hit at all); taker toll road off the road and Icy something or other. 

All those areas are hard.

 

Creations to-hit and damage comes from their strength stat, not from dexterity or int . Also +creation strength items don't work in the old games (pre G5 I think). If they can't hit something then they need more levels -> automatic more strength or upgrade their strength directly (but thats inefficient). War blessing is an additional 20% to hit and 4 damage dice. The best route though is to get better creations. Preferably ranged, most melee creations suck under the old action point system. Rots should be ok.

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Thanks for writing back.  You may very well be right.  Certainly I am having trouble spec'ing and playing a shaper

 

Is there a "best" entity for G3?

 

 

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It's not that there is a best class, but some classes when built properly are easier. You have to know what changes occurred between games as Jeff reduced the effectiveness of some exploits and rebalanced the game.

 

Shapers where you specialize in only one type with lots of intelligence and that shaping skill can make lots of creations that will fight so you can stay back in safety to direct them. This usually works when fighting in most zones.

 

Agents can do well since starting with GF3, daze spell is an area effect that can usually keep a swarm from attacking you. Before that you needed to slowly advance so you didn't get overwhelmed.

 

Guardians started to do better in GF2 where parry skill meant you could avoid taking damage. That got reduced in GF3, but with a few creations or careful positioning with terrain still can be effective.

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I have to disagree on a few key points:

 

1. Guardians are extremely sub-par in G3 -- all melee damage was nerfed significantly in G3, and Parry (which was OP in G2) was also nerfed.  Easily the worst class in that game, and not a great option in G4 or G5 either.  Still playable, obviously, but yeah.

 

2. In both G2 and G3, the strategy that moves Shapers from "very good" to "OP" is picking the best cheap creation (generally Vlish), pumping the relevant Shaping skill (Magic Shaping), and making a full party of them early, and keeping them alive, so they gain lots of free levels.  Lots of Intelligence is not the key in those games.

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Thanks for this.  I haven't been trying to keep any creation alive except I have adopted the giant roamer as a sort a pet (and I think that this may not have been a very wise decision as he doesn't do what I want).  I did find that the Vlish seemed to run out of energy VERY quickly, and does not seem to be very dexterous as I tried a group of 3 or them in the icy breeding place as I would really like that token.  And the Vlish didn't hit any of the cryoas or drakes.  The terror vlish seem to hit frequently, say 60%  of the time but that means that I have little mana left to keep them alive.  Have managed to kill the croyoas and some of the drakes but then all of a sudden there are 3 or 4 of the drakes and the party gets overwhelmed.

 

So - I am at a loss as to where I really need to go to finish the game (with some fun and a bit of dignity)

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Posted (edited)

Do you want to stay unaligned ? Because that limits your current creation options a lot. To create Drayk more or less.

Phariton will teach it if you are unaligned, Elissia in the Upper Research Hall if you join Zak

 

All other higher creations either require you to join the takers or barzites or have canisters in areas you probably won't manage as of now.

 

Give it a try if you haven't already ? Just make a bunch of drayks with 2 int and nothing else. You should easily have the essence for that.

Edited by Nim

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Posted (edited)

Well, I played the game at easy difficulty. There's no shame there buddy. 

Also, I don't think I finished Sharon's grove. And I certainly didn't mess with the demon.

 

With magic shaping at 8, I would actually think Vlish should be better than Glaaks since they don't have to move to melee range. But you have to level them up. 

Edited by alhoon

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The problems you ran into with Vlish were probably the result of having them at low levels.  At low levels, the flat bonuses creations get matter more, which helps some creations.  (And basically everything will miss a lot if it is lower level than what it's attacking -- there is nearly zero adjustment to hit rate for specific creations and their attacks.)

 

At high levels (and it takes very little time to reach those if you pump Shaping skill right away), those flat bonuses (for stuff like HP and Energy) are massively dwarfed by the formulaic bonuses all entities get -- while attack die size, elements, ancillary effects all still matter a lot.  That's where Vlish shine, and their low cost means you can make them early (and make a lot of them early) to maximize their level gaining opportunities.  Truly OP creations in those games.

 

Anyway, that's academic and doesn't help you now, Snowwhite.  You do have a lot of Essence at this point so I suggest, as Nim basically said, picking up some creations that have a higher base level.  Gazers would be ideal for you, especially since you do have some points in Magic Shaping.

 

Note that if you want to stay Unaligned (which I fully support -- best ending ever), you CAN temporarily join a faction to reap its rewards such as training, then immediately withdraw from it.

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I do not yet have the ability to create gazers.  Will go looking for it, thank you.

 

Didn't know I could withdraw from a faction easily.  I do remember that there was someone in G1 that would help you do it or change factions.  Will look around for that entity.

 

Is it possible to join them all (one at a time) and then withdraw and get all the rewards?

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Factions in some games have two levels where you can join for some benefits and then have to do something to get full benefits.

 

You can switch factions if you have the right reputation and haven't done something to make them hostile. There is usually a person that can give you a large boost in shifting reputation either way, but the best thing is to avoid too many conversations that have reputation relating options and save those for when you need them.

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Mind that you can't withdraw from Zak as he is lacking that option. You can switch to other sects tho.So don't do him last if you want to go unaligned in the end.

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Huh, really?  Are you sure?

 

Well, you can always withdraw from his faction by killing him, which I highly recommend both for the Unaligned ending and, frankly, in general.

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Yeah, Zak has no dialogue option to leave. He does have a new dialogue option once you have left tho.

 

And killing that wimp doesn't really make much of a difference. Now trashing the radiant college and leaving Barzahl alive, that gets you a nice change in the ending text :cool:

 

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6 hours ago, Outside the Ox said:

Huh, really?  Are you sure?

 

Well, you can always withdraw from his faction by killing him, which I highly recommend both for the Unaligned ending and, frankly, in general.

 

Wise words have never been said. Killing Zakary is a holy duty for Shapers, Rebels and unaligned alike. 

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