Anyone else want to continue with replays after A3, but concerned playing A4 will be painful?

[dave s]

I'm just thinking of all the little QoL changes that have happened since then, and even between A4 and A6. 

[Randomizer]

It won't happen for years, so who knows what game engine will be used by then. So maybe the remake will have better features.

 

Also maybe pigs will fly.

[Minion]

If you wait ten years for a remake of the second trilogy and it never happens (likely because Jeff Vogel is abducted by an underground race of pale, spindly humanoids for spilling their secrets), at least you can still go back and play the originals.

[googoogjoob]

I replayed Avernums 4 through 6 in the past month or so, and honestly the quality of life stuff is the least of the problems with them.

[Sade]

The awkward thing about the second Avernum trilogy games is that one of their biggest flaws is the lack of a separate outdoor mode, and straightforward remakes could not really address the issue.
 

[Muscleguy]

I'm with Sade, the distance between Dharmon and Blosk for eg is just silly. Also Blosk used to be on a mound, then it wasn't. Can't put that down to cavequakes. 

 

I'm redoing 4 and the main bugbear is the lack of keyboard uses. I keep hitting A to talk to people. It betrays that the Mac version is just an iOS port. Also just tapping the trackpad isn't good enough when moving, it needs a long press which is very annoying. But on interaction screens a tap is sufficient. 

 

Also the inconsistency between the games in movement and action points is a bugbear for me. Must leave 5 action points when attacking or spell casting whereas in other games you just need 1 action point. It means instead of going up to most enemies, especially outdoors, you just hit pause until they come to you. Even with haste and high Quick Action it is painful. 

 

Also I'm sure that in Mac Sierra the hardness settings don't work. It seems stuck on casual. My level 1 mage, supplied with icy rain from Natural Mage seriously kicks butt. Against goblins you just let them all come to you then WHAM. No challenge and that is on Tricky. I've had one character knocked out, once, largely due to carelessness on my part. Chiefs, that Ogre, nae bother as we say in Scotland. It takes a lot of the challenge away. 

[Ess-Eschas]

10 hours ago, Muscleguy said:

It betrays that the Mac version is just an iOS port.

 

It's possible that I'm misunderstanding you entirely, here, but Avernum 4 is really quite old now. The original game was released back in 2005, which was several years before even the first iPhones were released. There wasn't any original iOS port, and I don't think Spiderweb has made one since then.

Avernum 4 was the first game in a completely new engine, one that was a sort of amalgam between the old Avernum games and Geneforge. It has some significant changes compared to the previous Avernum games, since Jeff was going in a slightly different direction. It was a first attempt, so it doesn't have some of the small improvements made to some of the later installments. That lack of a talking command is one (although you can still get part of the 'A' effect by using Tab to highlight the names of people). Generally, the game is a little more mouse-focused. That's not because it was a port – it was a deliberate design choice!

Your issue with the trackpad is an odd one. I seem to be able to move about with a quick tap on my end, but that's probably not very helpful to you. Have you tried playing around with your settings?

Also, it shouldn't be possible to break the difficulty settings in the way you describe, no matter what operating system a player is using. If I understand how the engine works, the game itself would break completely long before something like the difficulty settings would go wonky. Again, Avernum 4 was a new engine, so the balance might be a little different compared to what you're used to. Just keep on going, and I'm sure things will hot up! Still, as a sanity check, it might be worth checking to see that your difficulty setting in the Preferences is set to Tricky. If it says Tricky, then that's what the difficulty should be.

On the original topic, I feel that Avernum 4 was something of an experiment. It added quite a lot of changes compared to the earlier games, such as the different use of AP, the way item weight is handled and the different approach to the outdoors. That tends to make it a little harder to get into for players used to the other Avernum games. I insist that, under all these points, there is really quite a good game in Avernum 4. Sure, it's different to the other games, but that just means it's a different sort of Avernum – not necessarily a worse one. For my part, I feel that there are some really nice, memorable moments in this game. There are also good, novel things this game does that don't appear in subsequent games – a 'non-violent' way of dealing with the threat to Avernum, for instance.

Now, I'm clearly in the minority here, and this isn't an argument I will make any attempt to win. But, still, I would really suggest that people give Avernum 4 a chance. If you get past the engine differences, it's the same old Jeff Vogel, the same old set of caves, even most of the same characters (even Pathass!). You might have more fun than you think!

[Slawbug]

Just to piggyback, re difficulty settings, they have a greater impact as enemies rise in level.  The goblins at the start of A4 are extremely low level, and Icy Rain is indeed super strong at the beginning of A4.  Things won't stay that easy.  By the Eastern Gallery you'll be unhappy, trust me.

[Lilith]

Also, when you go into the settings to check the difficulty, make sure you check it ingame rather than at the title screen, since difficulty is tracked separately for each save file. I remember that catching some people out back when the game was released.

[Puksis]

I honestly think A4 isn't as bad as people say. Quite the opposite, I feel it is the best of the 2nd trilogy.

 

I have beaten it with a full party, a duo party and a singleton with disadvantages only - on so-called "torment". As with all Avernum games I've played (A bit of the OG, fully completed 2-6), the games seem to just give up anyways, no matter the difficulty.

 

When it comes to the AP system, it is a matter of getting used to (and balance reasons). With the 1 AP casting being possible, melee-based enemies were in a major disadvantage. 

 

-Laati, who thinks Oliver single-handedly makes A4 the best game of the whole series.

[Slawbug]

Oliver?  Is he the merchant that wanders around a few places?  I... really?

[Puksis]

4 hours ago, Preferential Depletement said:

Oliver?  Is he the merchant that wanders around a few places?  I... really?

 

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/327971375874572288/443336870504693770/unknown.png

 

Magic ladies.. :3

[Slawbug]

*faceplant*

[Puksis]

On 6/17/2019 at 12:41 AM, Damp Annals said:

*faceplant*

 

He does have a point though.

 

Why surround oneself with anvils, golems or demons, when they could do that with magic ladies?

[Slawbug]

You're speaking as if everyone here (1) is into ladies, and (2) thinks it's appropriate to objectify them, 90's fantasy artwork style.

[Puksis]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone here was actually into anvils.

[Slawbug]

On that note, @Puksis, remember that lots of kids play Spiderweb games and the boards are supposed to be family friendly.  The Code of Conduct is now hidden in plain sight (under "Guidelines" which is so centrally located I couldn't find it just now :D), so if you haven't read it, take a look:

 

http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/guidelines/

 

This isn't a warning or anything, just a reminder.  That said, given the way this thread has veered, I'm locking it.  Adios.