Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Superteeth

Avernum 3 Time Counter

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone. I played Exile 3 and Avernum 3 way back when, where there was a day counter indicating how much time had passed since you started playing, which determined how badly cities became damaged by the plagues and other things. Apparently A3: Ruined World has a world where things change, but what determines what happens? Is there an internal clock that measures how many turns have passed in-game that then determines how damaged cities become? I don't want to be hardcore min-maxing by waiting for townspeople and whatnot to move away from items so that I can steal them only to find that the benefits are outweighed by cities becoming destroyed and NPCs dying like they did in the past two versions. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The clock still keeps ticking in the game, but waiting for people to die and move away isn't the best way to make money.  Lots of places have the items destroyed when that happens or aren't worth that much in money to make it practical. Plus some things depend upon what date you complete plague quests rather than the current date.

 

You are better off doing Job Board Delivery quests for money with the better ones paying 510 to 1600 coins in Sharamik, Lorelei, and Spineridge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh, I meant to say that I didn't want people to die so that I could take their stuff, rather, that I didn't want to be spacebar-mashing in an effort to get NPCs to move out of the line of sight to steal things. I just looked at the world map and saw a day counter, though, so I answered my own question. That said, just how strict is the counter? Can you do all the sidequests without worrying about towns becoming decimated in the meantime? Thanks.

Edited by Superteeth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can do everything, but at the start you will take longer going back to town to regain spell energy.

 

It really takes a lot of effort not to finish in under 180 days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as you're moving the main story line forward on a reasonably consistent basis you should be fine.  Spending a few days here & there for side quests/good job board opportunities shoudn't matter in the grand scheme of things.  Mashing the space bar for half a game day in order to pick up a 50 gp sword probably isn't a good use of your time though (maybe for a hunk of mandrake or a wisdom crystal..... maybe).

 

Important NPCs do move to other towns if their original town does get destroyed/damaged though (as I discovered much to my surprise amusement when I went rolling into one town to talk to the mayor again & found a horde of troglos instead...).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I grepped the scripts and found the following references to stuff being destroyed at certain day counts.  Based on the calls, it looks like these are also prevented by ending the corresponding plagues.  Note, there may very well be other changes that are hardcoded in.

 

Also, I have no idea if the terrain wreckage also means NPCs are removed, or items or containers are destroyed.  And frankly, I don't intend to find out :p

 

 

Wrecked terrain in
Delan (38, 60, 65, 70)
Silvar (40, 57, 60, 66, 70)
Bolton (40, 60, 75, 85, 95)
Inn of Blades (100)

 

Port Townsend (75, 85, 95, 105)
Bavner (75)

 

Hectar (70, 85)
Gidrik (75, 100, 120, 135, 160, 180)
Angel's Rest (80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 170, 180)
Kuper (90, 105)
Softport (100, 120, 190)
Dellston (110)
Bengaro (110, 120, 125, 130)
Poulsbo (120, 150)
Malloc (170)
Bremerton (200, 220)

 

Mernia (150, 180)

 

Removed object in
Spineridge (250)

 

 

Additionally, I looked up PC race references.  I can only see one non-dialogue impact, which is cheaper training for Nephils in a single location.  Again, there may be other encounter impact that is hardcoded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, it looks like it takes quite a bit of negligence on the part of the player to see a sizeable amount of destruction in the towns. Are there horses in this one, too? I just got the game, so It's all new to me right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time passes by the number of turns/steps per day (I don't know how many there are but it's pretty generous).  There is no ingame 'clock' per se, consider it a 'counter' & once it reaches 'x' a new day dawns (& another 25gp is available from Levy if you happen to be in the area).  Time progresses at the same rate if you're in a town/dungeon or outside strolling around.

 

I don't know how combat counts towards the 'day count' but I think that the whole fight is just one 'day turn' (as opposed to each round in combat counting as a 'day turn')

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I quickly experimented. It's as you say--it seems to pass by # of turns or steps. However, I think traveling on the overworld uses up much more time than towns. Currently, I can exit on the overworld and run around to trigger a new day in a few steps, whereas I can explore a whole town before that happens.

17 hours ago, Ghosts out of my sight said:

Wrecked terrain in

Delan (38, 60, 65, 70)
Silvar (40, 57, 60, 66, 70)
Bolton (40, 60, 75, 85, 95)
Inn of Blades (100)

 

Port Townsend (75, 85, 95, 105)
Bavner (75)

 

Hectar (70, 85)
Gidrik (75, 100, 120, 135, 160, 180)
Angel's Rest (80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 170, 180)
Kuper (90, 105)
Softport (100, 120, 190)
Dellston (110)
Bengaro (110, 120, 125, 130)
Poulsbo (120, 150)
Malloc (170)
Bremerton (200, 220)

 

Mernia (150, 180)

 

Removed object in
Spineridge (250)

Also, are these the confirmed full list? For example, Krizsan and Shayder had effects too in the originals. I wonder whether I'm on track or not before the first wreckage, since I'm on about day 4 and just hit Ghikra

 

Going to heal between dungeons is really costly on time

Edited by Brood_Star

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally never liked the day-based destruction mechanic in Exile 3 and Avernum 3. It's fine for people who are into that, but I like taking my time and exploring 100% of the game's content by slowly crawling my way up Valorim, without having to worry about missing content. Every time I played Avernum 3, I would frequently reset the day counter back to 0 so I had more time, and would only jump it ahead to day 160 once I'd done most of the major quests and was ready to do the tower of the magi event.

 

Is there any way to reset this counter using the editor? If not, when you got that list of data, were all those in a single script or spread throughout dozens of scripts? I suppose I could always just find those entries in my files and add a few 0's onto the end of the numbers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

29 minutes ago, Brood_Star said:

Also, are these the confirmed full list? For example, Krizsan and Shayder had effects too in the originals.

 

As I said in the post you just quoted:

 

17 hours ago, Ghosts out of my sight said:

Note, there may very well be other changes that are hardcoded in.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just registered with the forum to comment on this.  I've followed Spiderweb since Exile 3 came out, was blown away by that game, but somehow this release slipped past me.  I have to say one of the things that really got me was when I realized the cities were degrading around me as time passed.  I didn't notice it occurring really until some time into the game, I had trouble with the golem area so I steered clear of it for some time just having fun exploring things and making quick trips through that country.  I still remember the first time I ducked into the Inn of Blades to rest from some difficult encounters only to find it completely overrun with golems.  So cool.

 

First thing when I saw A3 pop up on GOG was look for this post and, very glad to hear that mechanic was continued.  I don't think of it as losing content, but really introducing a lot of new content as things change when time passes.

 

One way I enjoyed playing Exile was to let a ton of time pass right at the start so the cities are really damaged when you first encounter them.  Another favorite was to create a party of 6 clerics and go as quickly as possible to joining the Anama (spelling?)  It was possible to get some seriously powerful spell bombs very early in the game, although probably not the most interesting way to play from a variety perspective.  I also loved that you could attack the cities yourselves, joining the Anama and then brutally wiping them out was always fun (although the cities would eventually reset themselves if you left for a while and the NPCs would come back to life).

 

I still have Exile 3 running on my windows 10 PC..   I don't think it's possible to easily do this, the trick is to get a legit copy of Windows 98 and run it in a VMware virtual PC.  Not an easy solution. 

 

Cheers to Spiderweb, so excited to play this game!

Edited by virtualperson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One reason I find the degrading cities is so interesting goes back to the first RPG I played, Dragon Warrior/Quest 1 for NES.  You encounter like 5 or so cities, then you come upon a new one in the middle of a desert and walk into it expecting to find a safe and bustling city, only to find a ruined dungeon.  I always wished I could have seen that city before it was destroyed. 

Edited by virtualperson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I really liked the ability to reverse/halt the passage of time in the old Avernum 3 editor; playing on Torment is hard enough without the added challenge of trying to balance other quests and experience gain with beating the degradation timers. Artificially disabling it makes it more like playing Avernum 1 & 2, I guess? Anyway, I'm still trying to locate the step counter pointer(s) thingy using Cheat Engine, but I'm not great at that sort of thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For cheatengine:

I had good luck with choosing 2 byte value (if its larger it doesn't matter) 'unknown initial value'. Take X steps, search for 'increased value by', rinse and repeat. I found '3'.

Two are the same, one is about 8700 steps further than the (2) that are the same. Make sure and freeze at day time ;-) or its constantly dark. No clue what this does to your game.

Fairly certain it works, held down the spacebar while watching an hour of tv. I didn't save the game, was just testing. I've found pretty much everything so far with CE, no problem.

Also make sure to count your steps using arrow keys not mouse, so you get a proper count while using CE initially to find timers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, unixtroglodyte said:

For cheatengine:

I had good luck with choosing 2 byte value (if its larger it doesn't matter) 'unknown initial value'. Take X steps, search for 'increased value by', rinse and repeat. I found '3'.

Two are the same, one is about 8700 steps further than the (2) that are the same. Make sure and freeze at day time ;-) or its constantly dark. No clue what this does to your game.

Fairly certain it works, held down the spacebar while watching an hour of tv. I didn't save the game, was just testing. I've found pretty much everything so far with CE, no problem.

Also make sure to count your steps using arrow keys not mouse, so you get a proper count while using CE initially to find timers.

 

 

BTW, went back and retested, its a 4-byte value or you can't go previous of day 27, i just set mine to (1) step and it does indeed go back to 'Day 1'

 

EDIT: Apparently you only need to reset the (2) that are the same. Mine are actually about (1) step away from each other.

 

EDIT: Nope just the one that is (1) step ahead.

Edited by unixtroglodyte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone have any luck replicating this? I've not been able to make it work.  Normally not one to edit stuff like this, but I'm also a slow explorer. That's one of my fave things about this series of games, and I'm not enamored of the "ticking clock" aspect. Just curious if this worked for anyone else. Cheers, all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just noticed the new cheats thread. I suppose an ancillary question might be if the 'calmthetower' cheat, which resets the timer for a certain event, also has the effect of resetting the town destruction timers. Just curious, as that would functionally solve my issue (and not even a real issue, I just need to know whether i need to modify my expectations or not.) Thanks again, all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, I've puzzled it out. Took a bit, but I'm getting old. :) Thanks much, Unix, you were a great help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can confirm that the scripted list above is not complete; I observed some of Kriszan's walls changed from normal to barrier sometime around day 10. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having played through most of the game fairly inefficiently and without making any sort of special allocation for time, I'm at day 70 with all but the golems completed, and I've found that most of the destruction isn't all that bad. I didn't prioritize ending the plagues over other quests, but even still, I never "lost" a single town. Actually, seeing them get more and more beaten up over time is kind of interesting.

 

This isn't really as bad as I thought it would be. I probably won't overly stress about the date in future playthroughs, it seems well balanced enough to just be an interesting bit of added flavor without compromising overall enjoyment of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, mlahut said:

Can confirm that the scripted list above is not complete; I observed some of Kriszan's walls changed from normal to barrier sometime around day 10. 

That's a shame. Mostly just because of missing knowledge more than a gripe about the system itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Slarty's and my own research in the scripts, although the day triggers relating to town damage aren't visible anywhere in the scripts for some towns (Krizsan, Delis, Shayder, Sharimik, Aminro, Lorelei, Gale, and Greendale), it looks like Jeff didn't make any changes to the town destruction schedule compared to the original A3. So, the info in my old A3 topic here should still apply.

Edited by mikeprichard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×