# Grand Poll 2017: Results Part 3

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The Grand Spiderweb Poll Results

PART THREE: CORRELATIONS

For more info, check out the demographics results topic and the game ratings results topic.

This thread does not have raw survey results, but rather correlations between different questions.

Some things to keep in mind:

1) CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. Just because two things happen to be correlated among survey-takers does not mean that either one caused the other.

2) CORRELATIONS MAY BE ONE-WAY.  It's possible that most guild members are thieves, but most thieves are not guild members.  (This happens when there are a lot more thieves than guild members.)

3) SAMPLE SIZE IS SMALL. It's probably not a good idea to generalize these results too much, especially beyond the forum community.  This is extra true for the correlations, since they are based on different subsets of surveys.  Some of the patterns showcased here may be the result of random variation and coincidence rather than any meaningful differences between people.

4) SUBJECTIVE FACTOR.  Given the combination of small sample size plus large number of questions, I necessarily had to make some judgment calls about which connections to report.  I left out most patterns that relied on very tiny samples (e.g., options that only 5 people picked) or that had very slight correlations.  There are exceptions to both, though.  I also left out particularly trivial correlations (e.g., age and years of education).

NOTATIONS USED:

60% vs 10%

I most frequently use a notation like "60% vs 10%".  This means that 60% of the group being discussed is also described by the second condition, whereas 10% of everyone not in that group is described by the second condition.

A step lower, half a step lower

For questions that offered a continuum of choices (e.g., wealth, happiness, or alcohol consumption), "steps" refer to options on that continuum.  For example, if everyone in group A chose "pretty happy" and group B was evenly split between "pretty happy" and "somewhat happy", group B's average happiness would be half a step lower than group A's.

CONTENTS:

1. Spiderweb

2. Basic Demographics

3. Opinions

4. Personality

5. Gaming

SECTION 1: SPIDERWEB

SANITY LOSS

People who immediately gave up their sanity when they arrived are much less likely to analyze game mechanics (34% vs 64% for others), more likely to be very close with their family (52% vs 25% for others), and much more likely to rate Blades of Exile excellent or higher (94% of its ratings vs 54% for others).

People who held out until they saw the fluffy turtles, then gave up their sanity at that point, were most likely to leave a text comment (78% vs 45% for others).

People who claim they still have their sanity are more likely to be a fan of Star Trek (73% vs 46%) and Pokemon (60% vs 25%).

YEARS PRESENT

People who joined between 2004 and 2006 stood out in several ways.  They are much likelier to participate in debates (83% vs 43% for others).  They are also most likely to be Mac users (58% vs 33%), own the most games on average (17.3 vs 13.9), and are most likely to have rated games from all four series (42% vs 23%).

VISIT FREQUENCY

People who visit often are more likely to be Mac users (55% vs 32% for others).

People who visit daily gave higher ratings than others, on average, to:
- Nethergate (and Nethergate: Resurrection)
- Avernum 2
- Geneforge

They gave lower ratings than others, on average, to:
- Exile III
- Avernum 4
- Avernum 5
- Geneforge 3
- Geneforge 5

Finally, alas, those of us who visit daily are less happy than the average respondent (by about two-thirds of a step).

SPIDERWEB ACTIVITIES

People who socialize on Spiderweb joined at a much earlier age on average (15 vs 25) and are much likelier to listen to jazz (74% vs 29%).

People who discuss Spiderweb games in the community gave much lower ratings to A4 (2.2 vs 3.3), A5 (2.9 vs 3.4), G3 (3.1 vs 3.7), and perhaps more surprisingly, A:EFTP (3.7 vs 4.3).

People who analyze game mechanics gave higher ratings to Nethergate (4.1 vs 3.5) and lower ratings to A2:CS (3.6 vs 4.2).  They are also more likely to be fans of Final Fantasy (54% vs 19%), as well as Angband, Dungeon Master, Wizardry, and Ultima (18-32% vs 0-10%) -- but not NetHack, which they rated slightly lower on (14% vs 19%).

People who engage in debates here gave higher ratings to BoE (4.5 vs 3.8) and BoA (3.8 vs 3.2), and are more into Buffy (45% vs 20%) and Twin Peaks (31% vs 10%).

SATELLITES

Lyceum members greatly prefer Sliths (86% vs 49%) and are likely to play board games (75% vs 14%) and read comic books (50% vs 14%).  They have high fandom numbers for Final Fantasy (75% vs 29%), Mario (88% vs 33%), Zelda (75% vs 41%), Star Trek (88% vs 47%), and Game of Thrones (63% vs 35%).

Despers all prefer Sliths (100% to 48%) and are less religious by a full step.

Shadow Vale folks are a heterogeneous bunch: I couldn't find any real correlations or patterns.

Calref, OTOH, is distinct from the general survey-taking population and FULL of correlations.  Members are on average younger (by 9 years), poorer and less connected to family (each by half a step), and more likely to be LGBT (59% vs 19%).  Predictably, they are more likely to socialize with friends in this community (82% vs 25%) and enjoy silly memes (71% vs 23%), but are less likely to analyze game mechanics (29% vs 58%).  They are less often drivers (35% vs 55%).  They gave higher ratings to Exile and Nethergate, and lower ratings to Avernum, Avernum 5, Avernum 6, Geneforge 4, the A2 remake, and much lower ratings (by a full step or more) to the entire Avadon series.

They prefer cats more than average (91% to 60%) and are less happy (by half a step), while being less likely to participate in every geek activity listed (pencil and paper RPGs, CCGs, board games, comic books, and F/SF lit) except for online multiplayer games.  Contrastingly, though, they also spend fewer hours per week gaming on average.

They are much less likely to favor the RPG genre (47% vs 83%) and rate as higher than average fans of just one video game listed, Minecraft (71% vs 19%).  They are also less likely to partake of the video franchises listed, except for My Little Pony (29% vs 2%) and Avatar (41% vs 31%).

SECTION 2: BASIC DEMOGRAPHICS

AGE

Younger members (15-26) are more likely to be LGBT (61% vs 16% for others).

Older members (42-72) are more religious by about one step on average.  None of them said they use silly memes.  They are slightly more conservative on economic issues, though not on social issues.

Younger age correlates positively with use of Spiderweb for socializing (65% / 43% / 29% / 10% across brackets), and use of Let's Play videos (56% / 35% / 25% / 0%).

Older age correlates positively with use of Macs (22% / 40% / 50% / 50%), and both Star Trek (39% / 52% / 63% / 70%) and Star Wars (44% / 65% / 75% / 80%) fandoms.

The older two brackets (32-72) gave higher game ratings by a third of a step on average, perhaps because they are happier, by 2/3 of a step on average.  They were also much more likely to say that RPGs are their favourite video game genre (95% vs 63%).

In contrast, the younger two brackets (15-31) were more likely to be fans of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Minecraft.

BIRTH ORDER

Only children are more religious by just over a full step on average.  They are most likely to appreciate Jazz (75% vs 45%) and Electronic music (83% vs 51%), but least likely to appreciate Hip Hop (0% vs 37%).  Finally, they are slightly less happy (by a third of a step) than those with siblings.

Oldest children are most likely to claim they still have their sanity.

CIS/TRANS

People who chose trans are on average younger (24) and significantly less close to their family of origin (by just over one step).  They are much more likely to participate in AimHack (43% vs 8%), text-based RPs (57% vs 8%), and silly memes (71% vs 33%).

People who chose "I don't know what those terms mean" or "I prefer neither" are on average older (36).

People who chose "I don't know what those terms mean" are actually pretty distinct.  They are on average slightly more socially conservative, and significantly more economically conservative (by almost a full step, easily the biggest correlation I have found with that category so far).  They are also more likely to have shot a gun (78% vs 37%).  They are less likely to enjoy Jazz (22% vs 53%).  They are also notably less introverted (56% vs 86%), and consume less alcohol than average by half a step.  Lastly, they are more likely to play CCGs (44% vs 9%).

Alas, "I prefer neither" ended up correlating with almost nothing.  I guess it did end up being a mishmosh.

LGBT FOLKS OVERALL

Are on average...
- Younger (25 vs 35)
- Less religious (by a full step)
- More distant from their families (by a full step)
- More interested in servile equality
- More likely to be a fan of Avatar (50% vs 26%)

LOCATION

Suburbanites are on average more religious (by a full step).  They favor Avernum's story and them over Geneforge's (69% and 21%, compared to 50% and 42% for urbanites).

City dwellers are, ironically, a bit likelier to be dog people (37% vs 27% for others).  They are also more likely to have gone to any kind of graduate school (63% vs 17% for others).

RELIGIOSITY

Religion correlates negatively with being LGBT (0% to 43% across selections) and positively with family relationships (half a step across selections).

Interestingly, it does not correlate with answers to the social politics question, though it does correlate with more conservative economic views.

EDUCATION

Level of education correlates with family wealth (about one step of wealth difference across choices from the precollege options to graduate degrees).  More education also correlates with analysis of game mechanics.  Less education correlates with socializing with friends and use of silly memes.  (Sort of a ridiculous sentence to write, but the data is what it is.)  Education also has a strong correlation with Macs (25% up to 75% across choices) and preference for the RPG genre (25% up to 88%).

WEALTH

Wealth has a correlation with ratings of Avadon 2 and 3 (2.5 / 2.8 / 2.9 / 3.6, from poor to upper middle class).  Something something power dynamics?  It also has a correlation with Buffy fandom (13% / 18% / 36% / 47%) that I wouldn't have expected.

The upper middle class is actually much more likely to prefer RPGs in general (100% vs 62%).

The entire middle class drinks more coffee (by half a step).

Lower middle class people are most likely to rely on driving (73% vs 37%).

Poor people are most likely to have shot a gun (88% vs 39%).

People who are less wealthy than their family of origin are much likelier to have been arrested (35% vs 2%), and are more likely to play CCGs (41% vs 5%).

FAMILY CLOSENESS

Being closer with your family correlates with having a wealthier family of origin (with over a full wealth step, on average, between estranged and very close).  It also correlates with appreciation of classical music (40% / 55% / 59% / 86% across categories) and preference for nephils (25% / 36% / 47% / 55%), and higher ratings of the Avadon series (2.4 / 2.8 / 3.1 / 3.4 -- it's psychosexual).

SECTION 3: OPINIONS

SERVILE EQUALITY

People who said creations and shapers should be equal gave slightly lower ratings to all five Geneforge games (about a third of a step on average).

SHAPING REGULATIONS

People who leaned towards stricter regulation were more likely to be drivers than those who leaned towards weaker regulation (68% vs 36%), as well as more likely to have shot a gun (55% vs 27%) -- which is appropriate given how much the first Geneforge game owes to Chekhov.  Strict regulators gave higher ratings to G1 and G2 (4.2 vs 3.8), while loose regulators gave higher ratings to G4 and G5 (4.1 vs 3.7) when things are already out of control.  Loose regulators are also happier, by half a step on average.

RIDESHARING

People who have a bleak view of ridesharing are more likely to analyze game mechanics (75% vs 45% for others), engage in political debates (63% vs 48%), rate Blades of Exile well (4.5 vs 4.1), and be unhappy (half a step below others).

People with a positive view of ridesharing are likely to be fans of Zelda (79% vs 35%), Mario (71% vs 31%), and Game of Thrones (57% vs 33%).

DRIVING STYLE

People who primarily get around by driving are split 50/50 on cautious versus assertive driving.  People who primarily get around in other ways, but do drive, are overwhelmingly not assertive drivers (85%).

Of drivers: those who picked "assertive" are on average older than those who picked "cautious" (39 vs 29).  They are more religious (by a full step), more likely to have fired a gun (73% vs 46%), and gave notably higher ratings (about half a step) to an unusual set of games:

- Exile III
- BoE
- Nethergate (but not Nethergate: Resurrection)
- The entire Second Avernum Trilogy
- Geneforge 3 through 5

Cautious drivers gave notably higher ratings only to Exile and Exile II.

Assertive drivers are also more likely to prefer dogs (57% vs 27%), less introverted (67% vs 92%), and happier (by two-thirds of a step!).

COMPUTING PLATFORM

Mac users are wealthier than PC users by more than a full step, and have an average of 3 years more education.  Compared to PC users, they gave notably higher ratings to Nethergate, most of Avernum and Avadon, and much higher ratings (over a full step higher) to the Avernum remakes.  They are two-thirds of a step happier than PC users, too.

NEPHIL V. SLITH

Nephil fanciers are indeed more likely to be cat fanciers (84% vs 57% for sliths).  However, slith fanciers are happier, by half a step.

MUSIC

People who like classical music are not wealthier, but they do come from wealthier families on average (by half a step).

People who like hip hop gave higher scores to Exile III (4.8 vs 4.1) and lower scores to Geneforge (3.3 vs 4.0).

People who like electronic music are more likely to be fans of Final Fantasy (53% vs 17%) and Zelda (57% vs 34%), perhaps unsurprisingly.

People who said they were a fan of 2-4 styles of music listed were happier than average, while those who selected all 7 were less happy than average.

SECTION 4: PERSONALITY

ELEMENT IDENTIFICATION

This one was very fruitful.  Fire and Air in particular turned out to be distinct (and often opposing) groups in many ways.

Fire
- Most likely to have given up their sanity immediately (77%)
- More religious (half a step above average)
- From a poorer family than average
- Least into socializing on Spiderweb
- Inclined to weaker regulation of shaping
- Least Mac-inclined
- Least Slithy
- Higher ratings of Avadon games and the Avernum Remakes
- Least introverted (62%)
- Most inclined to drink coffee
- Ironically, likes meat mostly rare or medium
- More likely to play online multiplayer games (69% vs 48%)
- Least interested in F/SF lit (54%)
- Least into Star Trek (38%)

Water
- High ratings of both Blades games
- Relatively high ratings of the Second Avernum Trilogy, G1 and G2
- Least into Star Wars (42%)

Earth
- Less religious (half a step below average)
- Inclined to stricter regulation of shaping
- Least athletic
- Most interested in F/SF lit (91%)
- Most into Star Wars (82%) and Star Trek (64%)

Air
- More educated (by 2 years of school)
- Half a step wealthier
- Most into analyzing game mechanics
- Most Mac-inclined
- Most Slithy
- Higher ratings for Exile games and Nethergate
- Lower ratings of newer games
- Most introverted (100%)
- Likes meat mostly well done or medium
- More likely to play board games (70% vs 45%)
- Most into Avatar (50%), which after all has "Air" in the title

HOGWARTS HOUSES

Gryffindor
- 100% in a relationship
- More religious by a full step
- Wealthier family of origin by half a step
- Least introverted by far (20% vs 89%)
- Heavily caffeineated, a full step above others
- Insufferably happy (by half a step) -- of course
- Greatest preference for the modern era of games, also including Dragon Age and Mass Effect (60%)
- Likely to choose fire as an element (80%)

Slytherin
- Most likely to be a driver (80% vs 43%)
- Indeed the most Slithy, though only by a little
- Prefers meat well done
- Least happy (by half a step) -- of course
- Spends the most time gaming each week
- Likely to choose water as an element (80%)

Hufflepuff
- Popular among Calref members (67% vs 26%)
- Most into Buffy (56% vs 25%)
- No interest in Twitch

Ravenclaw
- Less into silly memes than the other houses (30% vs 62%)

CATS AND DOGS

Dog people are 6 years older, on average.  They are inordinately likely to have played all four Spiderweb franchises (50% vs 17% for cat people).  They are also happier than cat people, by just over half a step.

Cat people are more interested in silly memes (44% vs 14% for dog people).  In retrospect, this seems obvious.  They are also more into classical music (78% vs 43% for dog people).  They prefer PCs (71% to 43% for dog people) and, as expected, Nephils (61% to 25% for dog people).

INTROVERTS AND EXTRAVERTS

Introverts are such a big majority that there isn't much to find here.  However...

Introverts gave lower game ratings (half a notch on average) and register as less happy (again by half a step on average).

Extraverts are more likely to express interest in almost everything, naming themselves a fan, on average, of 2 more music genres, 1 more game, and half a TV show.

ATHLETICISM

The flesh is weak, and athletic people are much likelier to be in a relationship (62%, compared to 6% for LOL).

Athletic people are one step less religious on average, and less inclined to regulate shaping tightly.  They are more likely to enjoy every genre of music listed, except for electronic music (and even then it's close).  They are also likely to have given up their sanity immediately (77%).

They gave higher ratings on average to Exile III, BoE, BoA, and Geneforge -- whereas they did not like Avadon and largely panned the Second Avernum trilogy.  They are less likely to prefer RPGs (54% vs 82% for LOL) and, interestingly, they had a greater preference for the earlier game eras (by half a step) than others did.

Athleticism correlates with animal preference (50% dogs for athletes, versus just 18% for LOL).  It correlates very significantly with happiness -- athletes are a full step above LOL folks on that measure.

Finally, athletic people have a significant correlation with Game of Thrones fans (69% vs 24% for LOL).

ALCOHOL AND COFFEE

People who drink alcohol regularly are also likely to drink more coffee.  Star Wars fandom correlates slightly with regular alcohol use (80% vs 59%).

People who don't drink coffee are half a step more distant from their families, and gave much higher ratings (nearly a full step) to G1 and G2.

People who drink coffee regularly are likely to have given up their sanity immediately (73%).

MEAT

The flesh is strong: people who like their meat well done are more religious by nearly a full step, while vegetarians are a bit less religious.  Full cookers are much more likely to have the patience for debates here (85% vs 43% for others).

People who like their meat rare support looser shaping regulations more than almost any other group I've looked at.

Liking your meat cooked more correlates with mechanics analysis (23% / 50% / 62%).

Liking your meat cooked less correlates with enjoying Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Mario, and Zelda (ranging from 43-64% for rare, to 8-23% for well done)... and also NetHack (43% to 8%).  Strange bedfellows.

HAVING SHOT A GUN

People who have gave lower ratings to BoE (3.7 vs 4.4) and Nethergate (3.4 vs 4.2).  They are not happier, though.

HAVING BEEN ARRESTED

People who have been arrested have more liberal social views (by half a step) and favor looser shaping regulations (by half a step).  They gave higher game ratings by half a step to Nethergate (in which the Crones lock you up), and A1, A2, and A6 (in which you are in a giant prison colony).  They gave lower ratings to A5 (in which you are part of the Empire army).  They are also very likely to have enjoyed Realmz (29% vs 8%) and the SSI Gold Box games (43% vs 4%), and they are particular fans of Avatar: The Last Airbender (71% vs 29%).

MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS

People who learned a musical instrument at some point are slightly less conservative on economic issues, and are more likely by half a step to support servile equality.

However, their opinions on classical music are decidedly mixed.  People who still play an instrument enjoy it at 100%; those who stopped, only at 52%.  Compare to 74% for those who never learned in the first place.

HAPPINESS

Some more items happiness correlates with:
- Education
- Current wealth (strong correlation)
- Family closeness
- Not playing online multiplayer games

SECTION 5: GAMING

GEEK ACTIVITIES

CCG players are on average a step more religious, a year less educated (despite being slightly older), and nearly a full step poorer.  They are very likely to identify as economic conservatives.  They are also more likely to drive (78% vs 44%), have shot a gun (67% vs 40%), have been arrested (33% vs 8%), not be introverts (44% vs 14%), and be fans of Avatar (67% vs 28%).

Comic book readers, by contrast, are a little less religious than average, and a little wealthier.  They are fans of all the video properties listed at higher than average rates (especially Buffy, at 82% compared to 21%).  Star Wars is the one exception, where they have the same rate as others do.

SF/F lit readers are more likely to be into Star Wars (69%) than Star Trek (49%).

VIDEO GAMIN'

Spending more hours gaming correlates with enjoying electronic music and being less athletic.

People who chose "Less than 6 hours" identified as fans of very few video games, outside of Mario, Zelda, and Minecraft.

With the exception of Ultima, the older games (Realmz, gold box, Angband, NetHack, Dungeon Master, and Wizardry) were almost never selected by "More than 30 hours" gamers.

Higher gaming hours correlate with being a fan of Pokemon, while lower gaming hours correlate with being a fan of Game of Thrones and Doctor Who.

VIDEO GAME ERAS

People who chose the earlier era (1985-1996) were 12 years older on average, as you might expect.  A number of correlations follow from that.  Some that don't seem to be due to the age difference:

People who prefer the last era (2007-Present) are less likely to enjoy rock music (55% vs 88%).  They gave slightly lower ratings to the E1, E3, A1 and A3, and slightly higher ratings to G3 and G4.

People who prefer the earlier era are much more likely to prefer Macs (64% vs 28%) and much likelier than average to have played all Spiderweb series (50% vs 19%).  They gave slightly higher ratings to BoE, Nethergate, and Avadon, and lower ratings (by half a step) to G2 and G3.  They are less likely to read F/SF lit (50% vs 83%).
Star Trek fandom correlated strongly with this question (earliest to latest eras: 83% / 62% / 20%).  So did Buffy fandom (58% / 33% / 25%).

RPG GENRE FAVOR

People who prefer another genre are on average 6 years younger, gave higher ratings to the Exile Trilogy, Nethergate, and G1-2, while giving lower ratings to nearly everything else.  They are also more likely to be into Let's Play videos (44% vs 30%).

TWITCH STREAMING

Correlates strongly with Zelda fandom (92% vs 34%), as well as Pokemon (67% vs 26%) and, as you might expect, Let's Play videos (75% vs 23%).

FANS

Dragon Age and Mass Effect fans both like their meat rarer (half a step on average).

Final Fantasy fans who were not also Dragon Warrior fans gave low ratings to all Spiderweb games (by a third of a step on average).  Those who were fans of both didn't.  (There were no Dragon Warrior fans who weren't also Final Fantasy fans.)

Avatar, Buffy, and Twin Peaks fans all gave much higher than average ratings to Nethergate (nearly a full step up).  Buffy fans are also half a step more liberal (both socially and economically) than average, as well as more likely to support servile equality.  True to Form, Twin Peaks fans are more likely than average to drink coffee.  Twin Peaks fans are very nearly a subset of Buffy fans (92% of them marking Buffy as well).

GAME RATINGS: HAVING PLAYED ALL SERIES

People who played all four series gave higher ratings to:
- Nethergate (and N:R)
- Every single Avernum game, especially Avernum 1
- Geneforge

Interestingly, this includes the first game of each series.

They didn't give significantly lower than average ratings to anything.

They also generally prefer dogs (53% to 23%), and are much likelier to be Ultima (50% vs 9%), Star Trek (88% vs 40%), and Buffy (50% vs 26%) fans.

GAME RATINGS: ARCHETYPES

Superfans:
- Older (39 vs 31)
- Wealthier (upper middle class, on average)
- None said they socialize with friends on Spiderweb

Both the Old School and Classicist groupings:
- Drink more alcohol (by half a step)

Classicist grouping:
- Drinks more coffee (by almost a full step)
- Most interested in Angband (38% vs 5%)
- Most likely to favor the 1985-1996 era of games (54%)

Old School:
- Likely to be part of Calref (50% vs 29%)
- Most interested in Hip Hop (70% vs 25%)
- Most likely to favor the 1997-2006 era of games (70%)

Both Geneforge groupings:
- Fewer years at Spiderweb (8 vs 12)
- Notably more conservative on economic issues
- Slightly less interested in servile equality
- Unlikely to read comic books (4% vs 26%)
- Less interested in Buffy (17% vs 40%)

Early Geneforge:
- Most likely to be a fan of Crusader Kings (42% vs 14%)

Late Geneforge:
- Younger (25 vs 32)
- More religious (by a full step)
- Less interested in political or philosophical debates (!) (36% vs 55%)
- Less into rock music (45% vs 80%)
- Unlikely to use Macs (18% vs 42%)
- Significantly less introverted (55% vs 87%)
- Less athletic (by half a step)
- More likely to play online multiplayer games (73% vs 47%)
- Most likely to be fans of Planescape: Torment (45% vs 19%) and World of Warcraft (36% vs 10%)
- Unusually unlikely to be a Zelda fan (18% vs 53%)
- Has the greatest preference for Star Wars (82%) over Star Trek (45%)
- Most likely to favor the 2007-Present era of games (80%)

Whew, that was a pretty big info dump!  I hope you enjoyed it; I look forward to discussing it more.

If you are curious about a correlation that was not mentioned, feel free to mention it here (at least for the next couple of days) and I will look into it.  Chances are good that it was not mentioned because it was negligible or nonexistent, but I don't mind checking.

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Hahahaha! These had me in stitches! They're ridiculously, hilariously, amazing! Thank you for the good laugh.

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Thank you for the trouble.

If I may, what is the correlation (if any) between cat-people and coffee drinking?

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17 minutes ago, alhoon said:

If I may, what is the correlation (if any) between cat-people and coffee drinking?

Cat people are close to 50/50 on whether or not they drink it.  Dog people lean slightly towards drinking coffee, but it isn't a big difference.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

Calref, OTOH, is distinct from the general survey-taking population and FULL of correlations.  Members are on average younger (by 9 years), poorer and less connected to family (each by half a step), and more likely to be LGBT (59% vs 19%).  Predictably, they are more likely to socialize with friends in this community (82% vs 25%) and enjoy silly memes (71% vs 23%), but are less likely to analyze game mechanics (29% vs 58%).  They are less often drivers (35% vs 55%).

6 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

Contrastingly, though, they also spend fewer hours per week gaming on average.

I wonder what this compares to from five years ago. Between then in now a lot of people on CalRef got, like, jobs, and other lame adult stuff.

6 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

higher than average fans of just one video game listed, Minecraft (71% vs 19%).

As far as I'm aware, we're the only part of the SW community that's hosted a minecraft server (not anymore sadly, but Actaeon has a neat vanilla server I'd be on if I had more time for games).

6 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

People who chose trans are on average younger (24) and significantly less close to their family of origin (by just over one step).  They are much more likely to participate in AimHack (43% vs 8%), text-based RPs (57% vs 8%), and silly memes (71% vs 33%).

Escapism? Hell, I was making girl RPG characters back when I was an egg, even.

as far as silly memes are concerned, my life got a lot easier when I discovered I could convey my feelings via image macros of Our Lord And Saviour Felix

6 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

Extraverts are more likely to express interest in almost everything, naming themselves a fan, on average, of 2 more music genres, 1 more game, and half a TV show.

I might have missed this, but is there a relation between intra/extraversion and economic class?

6 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

CCG players are on average ... nearly a full step poorer.

Edited by sylae
wait im a mod i cant use rude language i'm supposed to be a good example for u plebs

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1 hour ago, sylae said:

I might have missed this, but is there a relation between intra/extraversion and economic class?

Just checked: no correlation.

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I'm the kind of CCG player who will loudly proclaim that's it's totally possible to enjoy the hobby responsibly by following a strict card-price restriction and overall deck-price limit... only to sheepishly admit that I undo all of that by owning thirteen EDH decks.

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I owned a Lotus for a little while in 1996.

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2 hours ago, sylae said:
8 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

Extraverts are more likely to express interest in almost everything, naming themselves a fan, on average, of 2 more music genres, 1 more game, and half a TV show.

I might have missed this, but is there a relation between intra/extraversion and economic class?

Alternative hypotheses:

1. Introverts may be more likely to have obscure interests that are not reflected in the poll.

2. Introverts may invest in fewer interests, but invest more time and energy in those interests that they do engage in.

3. We don't have a representative sample of extroverts, and this is just a false positive.

Dikiyoba.

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3 hours ago, sylae said:

9 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

Calref, OTOH, is distinct from the general survey-taking population and FULL of correlations.  Members are on average younger (by 9 years), poorer and less connected to family (each by half a step), and more likely to be LGBT (59% vs 19%).  Predictably, they are more likely to socialize with friends in this community (82% vs 25%) and enjoy silly memes (71% vs 23%), but are less likely to analyze game mechanics (29% vs 58%).  They are less often drivers (35% vs 55%).

Let's face it, some days CalRef is basically Tumblr: The Chatroom. Trash posts everywhere!

---

Being LGBT in general correlates with being poorer and having worse family relationships, so LGBT status is probably the underlying factor driving many of the socioeconomic-related correlations.

Dikiyoba.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dikiyoba said:

Let's face it, some days CalRef is basically Tumblr: The Chatroom.

I certainly hope it's not that bad. But CalRef does have a higher LGBT population and that does seem to affect family relationships and what opportunities there are. I'm sure we would get an obvious answer if you had asked something like "how much would your family want to contribute to your education?" Well, none, obviously, so I'm working a low-wage job without a car at the moment.

Naturally people in similar positions tend to cling together because they can relate.

4 hours ago, sylae said:

I wonder what this compares to from five years ago. Between then in now a lot of people on CalRef got, like, jobs, and other lame adult stuff.

Like I said before, I used to spend forever doing games every single day, and I still hold my personal collection of them to be very dear to me. On the other hand, even though I have more or less the same opportunity and available time that I used to, I'm not really inclined. I'd much rather spend the time socialising. Some of that is just where I am in my life right now and the factors that add to that, transitioning is definitely one of them, but I know that isn't exactly the case for everyone.

10 hours ago, Arachne-Mole said:

HAPPINESS

Some more items happiness correlates with:
- Not playing online multiplayer games

Say no more, Slarty.

Edited by Wrath
omg, this fast-quote feature is making me melt

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45 minutes ago, Wrath said:

Naturally people in similar positions tend to cling together because they can relate.

I think this is the critical factor.  I know there are real-world correlations between LGBT status and poverty (and etc.), so I decided to look at some three-item comparisons.  The average results are interesting:

Non-LGBT, non-Calref: current wealth 3.0 (Lower MC), family wealth 3.4 (Lower MC), education 4.4 (avg years post-high school)

LGBT, non-Calref: current wealth 3.3 (Lower MC), family wealth 3.3 (Lower MC), education 3.0

Non-LGBT, Calref: current wealth 3.1 (Lower MC), family wealth 3.3 (Lower MC), education 3.1

LGBT, Calref: current wealth 2.0 (Working Class), family wealth 2.4 (Working Class), education 0.8

Family of origin wealth has a pretty strong correlation with current wealth in general.  There are some other categories too where "LGBT, Calref" is the odd one out and the other three groups look similar -- lower alcohol consumption, for example.  So whatever impact LGBT status may have in this case, it isn't applied uniformly to the whole sample.

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15 minutes ago, Arachne-Mole said:

LGBT, Calref: current wealth 2.0 (Working Class), family wealth 2.4 (Working Class), education 0.8

so what you are saying is all i need to do is become cis and then i'll be able to afford to transition

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Alternatively, just dissolve Calref.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Slarty, that's interesting. I definitely did not think CalRef LGBT would be poorer and come from poorer families than their peers. I miiight say that the education average, in years, could be because the site's demographics are, on average, younger than those for Spiderweb? Which could also contribute to the current wealth comparison.

Edited by Wrath

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I do believe being trans has had some to do with my financial status. If I didn't spend so long depressed and angry, I probably could've been farther along in life. Alas.

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I actually checked out the age thing also because, you're right, there is generally a correlation between age and education.  However, both Calref groups and the other LGBT group were all within 1 year of each other's averages; only the vanilla group was significantly older on average (by about 9 years IIRC).

The bottom line is, as Diki and Iffy point out, it's easy to see where these factors can be connected.  But that doesn't mean they'll always be connected, and here with the Calref question we have something else that lines up with that choice.

One other thought: the LGBT category includes a range of identifications, some of which may be more likely to unfold as Iffy described than others.  These may not be equally represented in both populations.  For example, the Calref group includes more people who are trans, while the non-Calref group includes more people who are cis and bisexual.  That seems relevant.

However, none of this serves to disentangle family of origin wealth -- it lines up so clearly, and I have a hard time seeing the potential for that to correlate with the identity questions.

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Calref: a place for low-class queer failures.

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Question for anyone: outside of the Calref stuff, what did you find most surprising in this part of the results?

And what did you find most amusing?

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I don't know that very much was surprising, but I laughed at the ridesharing section.

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From Part 1, the low number of rural members. From Part 3, the fact that the average SWer appears to have lost some wealth compared to their parents, even for those at high education levels.

Dikiyoba would like to know whether this is the last thread, or whether a Part 4 is forthcoming.

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This is probably the last thread.

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Interesting: that the more conservative leaning people rated geneforge higher and also that those who did so appear to like to keep the serviles in their place. The whole story is almost about how the poor oppressed peoples of the world won their independence. But then again maybe it's some kind of self justification that order is the right way of things? Interesting for me either way.

Oh and a big thanks for doing this Slarty. The stats nerd hiding within me is quivering in glee right now after reading all of these posts.

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Posted (edited)

If I may ask, how do non-meat eaters (Vegans and vegetarians) fare in the rights of creations?

Edited by alhoon

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There were just 5 vegetarians and no vegans, so that isn't really enough to do correlations with, unfortunately.

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A couple of suggestions for the next survey:

1. Add an "other" option to the music genre question.

2. Since depression and anxiety seem to be pretty common among SW members, it would probably be worth asking a question or two about mental health. Anything about specific disorders should be optional or come with a "decline to state" option, though.

Dikiyoba.

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Quote

They gave higher game ratings by half a step to Nethergate (in which the Crones lock you up)

Maybe the survey could have used a Romans vs Celts question, as well.