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Throwback to Goriya

The Grand Spiderweb Poll, 2017 Edition: Demographics & Favorites

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Come one, come all, to
 
THE GRAND SPIDERWEB POLL, 2017 EDITION!
 
It's been five years since the previous grand poll -- it's time to make your vote count! Choose your favourite game, rate the rest of them, and tell us a bit about yourself!
 
This poll is a combination of a favourite game poll and a demographics poll. It is not a forum software poll, which will allow us to more easily see patterns and connections in the data. Are Nethergate fans older, on average? Do Alwan's fans support more conservative governments in real life?
 
It should take 5-10 minutes to take the survey, and you can do so here:
 
TAKE THE GRAND SPIDERWEB POLL!

 

(And remember to hit "submit" on the last page, so your answers are recorded.)


 

More Info:

* Here are some of the interesting results we got last time around: 1 2 3 4

* Data will be analyzed in aggregate; no survey taker's combination of answers will ever be published, to respect your privacy.

* The gender questions have been improved and all answers will be listed out this time (exact quantities will still not be given for answers that just a few respondents chose, again for privacy).

* Some questions are the same as last time (to allow comparisons of change over these 5 years).

* Some questions are new and, quite frankly, awesome.  I'm very excited about this one!

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sylae   
Posted (edited)

Yay, an poll :)

 

thank you for doing the default options so i could just skip all the stuff about the trash games. that made it real quick and EZ.

Edited by sylae
LOL WHAT'S A SHAPER I ONLY KNOW THE EXILE WITH THE PRETTY BLUE CAVES

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Wrath   
Posted (edited)

My mode of transportation is walking across the street to work unless I need to get a $5 pass to go somewhere for the day.

 

Quote

How do you prefer your meat cooked?

I see burnt isn't listed.

 

Quote

About how many hours each week do you spend gaming?

I seriously don't know how to answer this question because there have been times where Steam has said 120 hours last two weeks and I woke up one day and all I did was Warframe. But I'm not really as much into escapism the last few months, and all of my free time has been spent talking to my friends [and not being miserable for once]. Steam says 6 hours last two weeks, so maybe this is the new normal?

Edited by Wrath
I totally quoted the wrong things, I can't belive it.

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Lilith   
11 minutes ago, Wrath said:

I seriously don't know how to answer this question because there have been times where Steam has said 120 hours last two weeks and I woke up one day and all I did was Warframe. But I'm not really as much into escapism the last few months, and all of my free time has been spent talking to my friends [and not being miserable for once]. Steam says 6 hours last two weeks, so maybe this is the new normal?

 

yeah i also found that one hard to answer, because i play a few online games that require intermittent partial attention over the course of the day. that time adds up but i don't have a clear idea of how much it adds up to

 

actually i found almost all the questions hard to answer but i think i have already given slarty enough trouble over that in person

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16 responses so far, after a couple of hours.  An excellent start for sure!

 

Nikki: I am now going to picture you as Jenell, constantly surrounded by animals.  You're welcome.

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Blxz   

Good survey concept. Like some of the others above, I felt some of the answers weren't quite the perfect fit for me. Still, did the best I can and every answer is technically 'correct' even if it probably doesn't represent me exactly. Also, your 'coffee privilege' offends my keen tea drinker sensibilities. No option for me to express myself and my classy caffeine habit :p

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For the list of things that one can be a fan of I bemoan the lack of a N/A option. There are things I simply have basically no opinion on, and other things I have a strong negative opinion on. Why am I deprived of my opportunity to loudly make my complaints known?

 

—Alorael, whose overwhelmingly most frequent mode of transportation is his own two legs. But he went with public transit, because he's pretty sure he takes the train more than he takes taxis or Lyft/Uber. And since his bike has been stolen and he has no car, there's not really another option.

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)

OK, I would like to ask since I am not a native English speaker, I am fairly older than average and I am not from USA that some of the questions should be clearer for demographics different than the average American. I would also add my voice to those that said the answers were not perfect fit for my beliefs.

Edited by alhoon

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Triumph   

Nicely done, Slarty!

 

I have no doubt all of us could pick out a few places where we would tweak the phrasing of the questions / answers / both (e.g. the political one had me befuddled because it defined "liberal" and "conservative" in ways I've never seen before, so do I go with the definition that better represents me or the word more commonly associated with my views? LOL). Nonetheless the poll overall was put together well. I look forward to seeing the results.

The poll seemed shorter than I remember the one five years ago being. Is that just my imagination?

Also, what, five years ago??? Wow. Time is both too fast and too slow.

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)

Yes, the wording of the political questions had me a bit confused too. It was well put together though.

Edited by alhoon

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4 hours ago, Schoolin' Salmon said:

Consider this my response. Now, if Drakefire and TM show up I'll be impressed.

 

I thought TM was banned?

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5 hours ago, Triumph said:

The poll seemed shorter than I remember the one five years ago being. Is that just my imagination?

 

It's about the same -- I think a few questions longer.  A few of the earlier pages are shorter, but there was no seventh page before.

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After two days we're now at 42 surveys.  That is probably the bulk of them, but I'd like to at least give a chance to people who are more likely to check the forums on weekends, so let's say this will stay open till Monday morning.  Assuming today's slow trickle of submissions continues, that puts us on track to get fairly close to the 60 surveys we got five years ago.

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msazad   

I tried to fill the survey in spite of the sometimes intrusive or US-centric questions. I got as far as the following questions:
What are your political views when it comes to social issues?
What are your political views when it comes to economic issues?
Answers were required but all the options were downright insulting.

Oh, well. I'll check out the results of past surveys anyway. Sounds like a fun project.

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Triumph   

I don't know if I'd call them insulting...but yes, the definitions used for some of the questions clearly reflected a certain point of view. E.g., I've never heard a self-identified "conservative" define themselves or their beliefs in the way the poll answer did. I ended clicking "Liberal" based on the definition given, despite the fact that relatively little of my views align with what is typically called "liberal" today. However, I think that may speak more to the inadequacies of arbitrary political labels than to any ill intent by the poll's author.

 

I am curious what aspects of the poll you found "US-centric." I'm confident Slarty didn't intend any such thing, so depending on the nature of the issue, there might be room for constructive feedback. The only thing I recall is the question about Uber and Lyft, which are American businesses, but I wouldn't consider that one question to give the entire poll a "US-centric" taint.

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msazad   

Since you're curious, I thought pretty much everything that could have been US-centric, was. The politics stuff was totally US-centric (I've never known someone from any other country to think in those terms). But also to some extent the gender/sexuality stuff, the religious stuff and so forth. I did however notice an attempt at internationalizing US educational categories.
But I guess if you're for instance Canadian you might not see it that way. I've never been to Canada but I suppose it's not all that different from the US. Sorry for lumping similar countries with their more globally influential relative!

And I obviously realize no one intented to insult anyone else! It's just that I would have felt like I was insulting myself had I chosen one of these answers.

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1 hour ago, Triumph said:

E.g., I've never heard a self-identified "conservative" define themselves or their beliefs in the way the poll answer did. I ended clicking "Liberal" based on the definition given, despite the fact that relatively little of my views align with what is typically called "liberal" today. However, I think that may speak more to the inadequacies of arbitrary political labels than to any ill intent by the poll's author.

 

Context matters here.  The questions were explicitly asking about social views and economic views, not political affiliation.

 

The questions would be better without the initial labels, which weren't really necessary.  I considered removing those.  However, these were some of the questions that were used five years ago; removing the labels would make it harder to compare the new results with the old results.

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35 minutes ago, msazad said:

The politics stuff was totally US-centric (I've never known someone from any other country to think in those terms). But also to some extent the gender/sexuality stuff, the religious stuff and so forth. I did however notice an attempt at internationalizing US educational categories.

 

The reality is that, while there are people from all over the world who access these boards (and they are all very welcome)... at the end of the day, the culture here is overwhelmingly anglophone and also predominantly American.  I state this as a neutral observation.  It's just the way things are.  So in some categories, attempts to make things more global would actually make them move further away from the culture of the boards themselves.

 

The political questions are an example of this.  When I wrote them five years ago, they were heavily influenced by the recurring Political Compass threads as well as by the many political discussions and debates that have taken place here -- and which most frequently turn on U.S. politics.

 

The gender and sexuality questions, similarly, were rebuilt this year around the ways those things tend to be discussed on the forums and in the community here.  (And they have "Other" options precisely to make sure nobody felt excluded.)  Honestly, I am a little confused by the expectation that a single survey could somehow be culturally accessible to the entire world.

 

--

 

Finally, I received a private complaint that the survey was hard to understand for people who have poor English.  Really didn't know what to say to that!

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sylae   
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, msazad said:

The politics stuff was totally US-centric [...] also to some extent the gender/sexuality stuff

yeah because trans people and gay people dont exist outside of america

 

?

Edited by sylae
because seriously unless its a different poll than what i took, the questions were basically "are you trans" or "are you gay". if you want to argue that even acknowledging GSM people *exist* is US-centric political spam, oh boy

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Triumph said:

I am curious what aspects of the poll you found "US-centric.

 

I am not sure it would count as "US-centric" but certainly it could use some improvement for people that haven't caught up with all the nuisances of modern life or English language.

Certain things like "Uber", I have not encountered before. I didn't even know what that service was and I had to google it. Another example is the word liberal. It has different meaning in much of the world than presented in the poll (Little government oversight of economy, free market, few regulations, low taxes). Another case is the distinction between "Vegan" and "Vegetarian" (I eat everything so I didn't check it).

As I said, perhaps it has to do more than I am 35+ than with not being an American. 

 

However: Google helps. I may not remember the word for Uber-like or Lift-like companies but I became a bit wiser. It was not a bad survey and as the Author of it said, the forums are American-based and so is the Survey. 

Edited by alhoon

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3 hours ago, alhoon said:

I am not sure it would count as "US-centric" but certainly it could use some improvement for people that haven't caught up with all the nuisances of modern life or English language.

 

The forums are in English.  The poll is in English.  This is not an "English only" thing, this is a "we communicate almost exclusively through writing on this forum so there has to be one language we all use" thing.

 

 

3 hours ago, alhoon said:

I didn't even know what that ____ was and I had to google it.

 

Isn't this standard operating procedure for being on the Internet?  Especially when you visit a site where most people have a different set of life experiences then you do?  I'm having a hard time seeing a problem here.

 

As an aside, this appears to be the same thing that comes up in Geneforge debates: you have missing knowledge (due to not wanting to play G1, and missing parts of other games) but that leads you to complain and to demand that everyone else* tailor their comments to your unique situation.  That's just not how communication works.

 

*Including games that came out 14 years ago.

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3 hours ago, alhoon said:

(Little government oversight of economy, free market, few regulations, low taxes)

This, AFAIK, is not liberal anywhere; however, the poll described this as LiberTARIAN, not LiberAL. Liberal was a different choice, indicating higher government controls and regulations over the market, with limited or no authority over how people conduct their personal lives.

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Blink of Terraxia said:

Isn't this standard operating procedure for being on the Internet?  Especially when you visit a site where most people have a different set of life experiences then you do?  I'm having a hard time seeing a problem here.

 

you have missing knowledge (due to not wanting to play G1, and missing parts of other games) but that leads you to complain and to demand that everyone else* tailor their comments to your unique situation.  That's just not how communication works.

 

*Including games that came out 14 years ago.

 

"Isn't this standard operating procedure for being on the Internet? " Yes as I said in the last part of my post.

"That leads you to complain and to demand that everyone else* tailor their comments to your unique situation." Care to show me how a "I googled it and it was fine, as is the survey! Thank you" = complain and demand for everyone else to tailor comments to my unique situation?

 

I don't think I am the one missing the point here.

 

Edited by alhoon

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Triumph   
4 hours ago, alhoon said:

people that haven't caught up with all the nuisances of modern life or English language

Yeah, I think Slarty is right on this. It's an English-speaking forum, populated overwhelmingly by native English-speakers. It would be difficult if not impossible for us to design a poll that did not reflect that fact. No one here is clairvoyant, either (well, maybe Alorael), which means there's no way to gauge precisely the level of English fluency of Spiderwebbers like you for whom English isn't a first language. There are going to occasionally be language gaps, or even cultural gaps (think about our discussion over in the Geneforge forums about the unwritten norms of forum conversation that Slarty and I had that you didn't share). It's a reality of life more than a defect with the poll, I would say.

 

18 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

This, AFAIK, is not liberal anywhere

Actually, Alhoon's definition is a passable summary of what is sometimes called classical liberalism. Now, at least in America, mostly the only people who would talk about "classical liberalism" these days are history / politics nerds, but he's not crazy for associating "liberal" with such views.

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, alhoon said:

It was not a bad survey and as the Author of it said, the forums are American-based and so is the Survey

 

I never said it's a problem. I thought it was a clear "if you want to improve it, perhaps... " Nor I am the only one that mentioned it is not as easy for a non-English speaker, despite me clearly stating that in an American-Based forum so would be the survey. I don't understand the uproar here. I suggested a possible improvement. You don't like my suggestion? Don't adopt it.

 

6 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Actually, Alhoon's definition is a passable summary of what is sometimes called classical liberalism. Now, at least in America, mostly the only people who would talk about "classical liberalism" these days are history / politics nerds, but he's not crazy for associating "liberal" with such views.

I am used to discussions where Liberal means economic liberalism.

And before anyone hits at this, no, I am not complaining nor I "demand" that the forum would adopt that definition that few of the posters have encountered.

Edited by alhoon

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28 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Actually, Alhoon's definition is a passable summary of what is sometimes called classical liberalism. Now, at least in America, mostly the only people who would talk about "classical liberalism" these days are history / politics nerds, but he's not crazy for associating "liberal" with such views.

24 minutes ago, alhoon said:

I am used to discussions where Liberal means economic liberalism.

 

Again, however, I will point out that the two political questions specified economic views and social views.  "Liberal" only showed up in the social views question.  All of the things alhoon listed off in parentheses are economic issues (and contrary to what ADoS claims here, "Libertarian" was also only listed under social views, so it did not include those things either).  What the poll actually used:

 

"Liberal: the government should avoid interfering with personal liberty, and it should uphold minority rights, but some things are just so immoral or socially destructive we can ban those"

 

I think that is a pretty good summary of the socially liberal position in the U.S. and on the Political Compass and as discussed on the forums.

 

For the first time in a long time, Triumph didn't say it better ;)

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Lilith   
4 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Actually, Alhoon's definition is a passable summary of what is sometimes called classical liberalism. Now, at least in America, mostly the only people who would talk about "classical liberalism" these days are history / politics nerds, but he's not crazy for associating "liberal" with such views.

 

to give a specific example, the Liberal Party of Australia, one of our two largest political parties, is (at least historically) a liberal conservative party, which is a bit less of a contradiction in its cultural and historical context. the more you tmyk

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Lilith   
20 minutes ago, alhoon said:

I don't understand the uproar here.

 

I don't see any uproar. I see people disagreeing with you. Since you've made it known that you're unhappy when other people characterize your own statements in ways you don't like, please try to remember how that feels when you're about to hastily accuse others of making an uproar.

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Triumph   
6 minutes ago, alhoon said:

I don't understand the uproar here.

There isn't an uproar, Alhoon. :D You sound more worked up about this than literally anyone else here. The responses you're getting are from people who would happily improve the poll if possible, but who are trying to explain you, the one who sounds worked up (and also to the other user who was so frustrated by the poll as to give up on it entirely!), that the issues you cite are inherent hazards of cross-cultural communication and can't really be "fixed." People want you to know there's no America-centric discrimination going on. Ironically, in light of your comment, you're the one whose responses have come across to us as upset, and we're trying to calm YOU down. :D That may not be at all what you intended, but it has sort of sounded that way. Maybe we're all just confused about how much any of this bothers each other?

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Yeah, I couldn't see the questions; I clicked the poll link and it wanted me to fill it out again, so I just guessed. I didn't remember in what manner social vs economic issues were characterized. Now that you've described it, though, I'm not sure those labels actually represent political terminology even in America. While Liberal and Conservative have fairly clear meanings in both economic and social terms, I'm not sure they were accurately reflected as you describe, and Libertarian and Communist are inherently socioeconomic labels which can't really be stuck on only one of those two scales and still make sense.

I do think the questions would therefore have been improved had the labels not been used.

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Lilith said:

 

I don't see any uproar. I see people disagreeing with you. Since you've made it known that you're unhappy when other people characterize your own statements in ways you don't like, please try to remember how that feels when you're about to hastily accuse others of making an uproar.

 

I didn't mean that there are people with pitchforks coming after me. I wondered why after I made a clear post on the survey being American-based, there were two posts in a row reminding me that it's American based, with one post making the erroneous claim that I make demands and complains even after It's  clearly stated in my post that these are suggestions for possible improvement. "Uproar" is an exaggeration. "You are making complaints and you demand everyone else tailors their comments" is not an exaggeration, it's an erroneous accusation based on a poster's personal (and wrong) opinions about my posting habits.

 



You sound more worked up about this than literally anyone else here.

Really? I am not worked up, I was just taken aback by the accusation that I habitually make complains and demands on others to tailor their comments according to my styles. 

I find that since that remark is both untrue and paints me (falsely) in a bad light, that I shouldn't leave it unchallenged, i.e. explain that I didn't do that. Which I did with a post that quoted the part that I believe explain that.

 



The responses you're getting are from people who would happily improve the poll if possible, but who are trying to explain you... that the issues you cite are inherent hazards of cross-cultural communication and can't really be "fixed." People want you to know there's no America-centric discrimination going on.

Which I find strange that I had to be told, twice, since I have put that in my post at the first place.

 



Ironically, in light of your comment, you're the one whose responses have come across to us as upset, and we're trying to calm YOU down. :D That may not be at all what you intended, but it has sort of sounded that way. Maybe we're all just confused about how much any of this bothers each other?

Thank you. I just wanted to make clear that I find the Survey OK, that there was no need (at least for my benefit) to remind me the obvious since I have actually put that in my post and that I don't demand others to tailor their remarks nor that I make complains about my incomplete knowledge.

Edited by alhoon

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Lilith   
7 minutes ago, alhoon said:

 

I didn't mean that there are people with pitchforks coming after me. I wondered why after I made a clear post on the survey being American-based, there were two posts in a row reminding me that it's American based, with one post making the erroneous claim that I make demands and complains even after It's  clearly stated in my post that these are suggestions for possible improvement. "Uproar" is an exaggeration. "You are making complaints and you demand everyone else tailors their comments" is not an exaggeration, it's an erroneous accusation based on a poster's personal (and wrong) opinions about my posting habits.

 

Speaking as a neutral third party, I would say that the tone of your posts does in fact frequently come across as demanding. Consider this post, for example:

 

On 18/07/2017 at 3:16 PM, alhoon said:

OK, I would like to ask since I am not a native English speaker, I am fairly older than average and I am not from USA that some of the questions should be clearer for demographics different than the average American. I would also add my voice to those that said the answers were not perfect fit for my beliefs.

 

Maybe it's different where you're from, but to me saying that something "should" be changed comes across as a demand. If that wasn't your intent, please keep this in mind in future.

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Triumph   
14 minutes ago, Blink of Terraxia said:

For the first time in a long time, Triumph didn't say it better

ZING! Sick burn, bro :p

 

I know your question specified social views. You said that before. :D Your definition of liberal on social issues may perfectly encapsulate how self-identified liberals would summarize their views. Well and good. The problem is that I am not a social liberal by literally anyone's definition (be it on abortion, nature of marriage, religion, divorce, or whatever). Except that I identify far more with the definition you provided for socially "liberal" views than with any of the other definitions you offered for social views. Moreover, with my background, I've known a great many people over the years who would identify as "socially conservative" and I've never heard a single one express themselves in terms resembling your definition of "conservative" social views (that is, "it's fair for the government to promote values most people agree on, and to ban or censor things most people agree are bad"). Such a definition does not at all reflect how I would characterize my worldview. Maybe you based your definition on people you've talked to who identify as conservative; whatever your source was, I'm confident you were making a good faith effort to accurately depict people's views. But as one of the few (sole?) "social conservative" folks on these forums, I feel like I might have at least a little standing to discuss how "social conservatives" describe their own views and to critique a definition I find inadequate. ;) In the context of a poll, if you define "social conservative" to mean something that no IRL "social conservatives" believe, no one will answer your poll as "social conservative." I know I didn't - I clicked "Liberal" based on of the definition given; I'd rather choose the definition that fits me better rather that click the empty label society conventionally assigns to me.

Maybe the conclusion to draw here, if both socially "liberal" and "conservative" people appreciate the idea of "the government should avoid interfering with personal liberty, and it should uphold minority rights, but some things are just so immoral or socially destructive we can ban those," is that we've misidentified the nature of our disagreements.

 

 

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)

@Lilith:

Oh, you're right. That is a mistake. It should have been "some of the questions could be clearer " there. I didn't intend to make it sound as a demand. To my defense, I hopefully made it clear by now that it wasn't a demand.

Edited by alhoon

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Also, alhoon, you keep editing your posts to tone them down after other people have already replied to them.  It just happened with your post above and Lilith's response.  While I applaud the thought process there and use it myself, it works a lot better if you do it before you post.  Once someone else has read your post and replied, it's a little bit like pulling the rug out from under them to go and edit your post substantially.

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alhoon   
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Blink of Terraxia said:

Also, alhoon, you keep editing your posts to tone them down after other people have already replied to them.  It just happened with your post above and Lilith's response.  While I applaud the thought process there and use it myself, it works a lot better if you do it before you post.  Once someone else has read your post and replied, it's a little bit like pulling the rug out from under them to go and edit your post.

 

That's because after I type them and I read them I think "Oh, that gives the wrong tone" and I correct them. I try to polish them up before post for some time in the forums here, but answers are coming too fast for me to put a post, read it carefully, read the post I quote again. It is a habit I have from chat messaging.

 

@Triumph: Those labels are why I put "conservative" as my answer. It is because I am a conservative not as the explanation suggested but as a person and by the definition the label "conservative"  usually means (i.e. to describe social conservatives). Since I assume the results would be given in the graphs like the previous one, I didn't want to be put in the "liberal" side because many people may mistake that as socially progressive while I am socially conservative.

 

@ADoS: that's a good idea but truth be told, "My post was a crappy mess" or "my post was half-finished and poorly thought" which is the reason I usually edit, is not really complimenting. :p 

Edited by alhoon
Replying to ADoS

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6 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Except that I identify far more with the definition you provided for socially "liberal" views than with any of the other definitions you offered for social views.

 

As I stated earlier, the labels weren't really helpful, but I kept them for the ability to compare with the questions from five years ago.  It sounds like if this option didn't have a label, that you don't identify with, you'd have had no problem here.

 

I would suggest, however, that if you look at the breadth of social views in the U.S., there are a lot of people who identify as "conservative," who are described by others as "socially conservative," and who fit perfectly with the social views answer labelled as "conservative."  Whatever political self-identification you may have, you are certainly much less socially conservative than a very large chunk of the country, if the best description for you was the one included "uphold minority rights."

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I don't know how the terms originated politically or are used internationally,but on a literal level, when I think of "liberal" I think "give more", and when I think of "conservative" I think "retain more". So liberalism would give more money to public programs and allow more freedom, whereas conservatism would save more money and reduce the freedom to do whatever you want to varying extents. That's how I keep my head from hurting, anyway.

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Triumph   
8 minutes ago, Blink of Terraxia said:

you are certainly much less socially conservative than a very large chunk of the country, if the best description for you was the one included "uphold minority rights."

Really?! Perhaps you have an unfair view of some people if you think "trample minority rights" is a substantial part of what it means to be "socially conservative."

 

Thinking something is wrong doesn't necessarily mean that one hates people who do it or wishes to trample on individual rights.

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