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Foumantoo

Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

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for example tower of magi and mertis areas have easy opponents and also tough opponents which you can't deal until later when party has gained more lvls. Avernum is 1 big open world and that means that player can easily put his/her nose to some place where it shouldn't be put until much later.

I did notice that some places have a combination of easier and tougher battles. It sorta threw me off as I am used to "areas" in games where you should be or not be for your level. I just need to keep some notes on where to come back to. I am lazy with note taking, map making etc though. I try to find those kinds of answers by people who are more knowledgeable about a game than me (who aren't as lazy either)

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Is a Dual Wielding Fighter still recommended over a Shield/Pole user? I saw the Minus To Hit went from 20% in AEFTP to 35% in CS.

If you're trying to go for melee damage, yes. There's no real reason to do that, but if you are DW is the way to go.

If not, I suppose you can go shield for tanking. But tanks aren't really that great in A2CS either.

 

Slarti suggests getting Magi Clearance right after Demo area without going into another dungeon with though out questing and planning. Unfortunately I guess I will have to play through a few times to learn what those might be, or can someone maybe help with a SPOILER in this regard? I really like the game but come to the forums for hints. tips and Ah-ha stuff...

Technically I said it's possible, not that you truly need to do it. But really, there's nothing to spoil here. Just go around between towns (pretty safe to do if you stay on the main paths or use boats), pick up every quest you can, and do the ones that are find-this-item, find-this-person, etc. There are quite a few of those.

 

However, I want to highlight one thing you said: "I will have to play... to learn". We cannot script your entire playthrough for you.

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Lilith   

Is a Dual Wielding Fighter still recommended over a Shield/Pole user? I saw the Minus To Hit went from 20% in AEFTP to 35% in CS.

 

Lillith recommends against taking Sage Lore-is this mainly for Resistance Bonus AL 11/13 whatever gives, for the fact there are a few spells you can't get with Sage Lore?

 

Basically, yeah. While Sage Lore counts toward most things that Arcane Lore does, there's just enough stuff that it doesn't work for that relying on it is annoying. And if you buy 13 points of Arcane Lore with skill points, then Sage Lore is pretty much redundant; between Arcane Lore and Vahnatai Lore you'll have enough points to get all the spells without it. Also, whether you're getting Sage Lore or not, be warned that you absolutely need at least two points specifically of Arcane Lore in order to meet certain requirements for major plot quests.

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Question: At higher difficulty levels-

If you have a party with 2 Priests and 2 Mages, you will wind up having someone get banged on right? So if you create a Priest that doubles as a tank, do you have to take some levels of strength stat to don better armor? If so, would you just use one or both for that purpose?

Would they be shield users then too? Like clerics in other games perhaps. I would think they would generally focus on Blessings and buffs as they don't have as many damage spells, or do you actually count on them to melee a bit?

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Lilith   

Question: At higher difficulty levels-

If you have a party with 2 Priests and 2 Mages, you will wind up having someone get banged on right? So if you create a Priest that doubles as a tank, do you have to take some levels of strength stat to don better armor? If so, would you just use one or both for that purpose?

Would they be shield users then too? Like clerics in other games perhaps. I would think they would generally focus on Blessings and buffs as they don't have as many damage spells, or do you actually count on them to melee a bit?

 

You gain Strength naturally as you level up, and by the time it really matters you'll have enough to wear all the armour you need, more or less. Plus, even being slightly overweight isn't the end of the world, since it just means you lose an action point or two and your spellcasters often don't need to move around much in combat anyway. I wouldn't recommend actively putting points in Strength on characters who aren't going to be attacking in melee.

 

If you really want a tank in a full caster party, make a priest who invests in nothing but Endurance every single level. Their healing spells don't depend on their stats, so they can still act as a fully functional healer and buffer. I personally think that's unnecessary and a little boring compared to having a character who can actually fight, but the option exists.

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You gain Strength naturally as you level up, and by the time it really matters you'll have enough to wear all the armour you need, more or less. Plus, even being slightly overweight isn't the end of the world, since it just means you lose an action point or two and your spellcasters often don't need to move around much in combat anyway. I wouldn't recommend actively putting points in Strength on characters who aren't going to be attacking in melee.

 

If you really want a tank in a full caster party, make a priest who invests in nothing but Endurance every single level. Their healing spells don't depend on their stats, so they can still act as a fully functional healer and buffer. I personally think that's unnecessary and a little boring compared to having a character who can actually fight, but the option exists.

 

Thanks I agree I do like a melee person-just feels more like the classic "rpg" and that's why I like these games after all I guess...BTW I am taking Pole Weapons on casters to get to Adrenaline Rush, with the comments that this trainer comes sooner in game etc. I actually used a spear a couple times with my casters and they did some damage. This is another restart with better notes and I'm at a whopping level 3 (on Hard this time though unless I get too frustrated)

 

Thanks your answers are really helpful Lilith

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I tried the 2 priest and 2 mage party and it works pretty well on torment difficulty until you come to the end fighting your way through Garzhad's fortress where you need to hit stuff with Demonslayer. Still you can heal your party until you hit and you still have a decent enough chance.

 

You don't need that much extra Endurance so you can fight when not healing.

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I tried the 2 priest and 2 mage party and it works pretty well on torment difficulty until you come to the end fighting your way through Garzhad's fortress where you need to hit stuff with Demonslayer. Still you can heal your party until you hit and you still have a decent enough chance.

 

You don't need that much extra Endurance so you can fight when not healing.

Do you prefer 1 Melee in your party? On normal I don't think it matters, how about on hard?

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My traditional party is a melee, a pole weapon, mage with some priest spells up to unshackle mind, priest with some low level mage attack spells. The fighters are there mostly because there are so many good weapons and armors later in the game that otherwise get used for only money.

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xuerebx   

Thanks! For some reason I thought the left side of the skill tree pertained to mages only, whilst priests followed the second branch.

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Everything from where you start and the zone reached by going down in Formello. The full game starts as you go down river in the Dark Waters.

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xuerebx   

Foumantoo - if you don't mind I've also got another question which I don't think merits another thread. If you haven't went down into the Dark Waters then don't read the spoiler.

 

 

Is learning Vahnatai magic worth it? e.g capture soul and simulacrum.

 

 

Thanks!

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Also summoned monsters scale with caster level so they can become useful for more than shields.

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Hi Lilith,

One last time I want your opinion on Sage Lore, Vahanatai Lore vs. Arcane Lore. I have restarted on Hard and am able to try different things with some testing of course, but testing stuff through the editor is really not a fun immersive experience.

13 Arcane Lore for all spells and Resistance buff?

3/4 people taking Sage Lore with 2 Arcane Lore for basic requirement in beginning of game for Ritual ( or whatever) Spell?

If going with the 13, at which point do I really need to go past the beginning 2 points? I am having tough battles early here and wondering if I should be putting more initial points in defensive (Hardiness,Resistance etc). Maybe taking points after the early"demo" area? Or does the extra few defensive points for melee fighter and mage/priest spell points really matter in making early fights a little less ass kicking?

 

I promise I won't ask again-I realize it's a common thread question and appreciate your good will.

 

Thanks

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Lilith   

Hi Lilith,

One last time I want your opinion on Sage Lore, Vahanatai Lore vs. Arcane Lore. I have restarted on Hard and am able to try different things with some testing of course, but testing stuff through the editor is really not a fun immersive experience.

13 Arcane Lore for all spells and Resistance buff?

3/4 people taking Sage Lore with 2 Arcane Lore for basic requirement in beginning of game for Ritual ( or whatever) Spell?

 

I would say both of those are reasonable options, and you can make your own choice between them based on personal preference -- basically, decide how much it would bug you to miss out on some stuff and act accordingly.

 

If going with the 13, at which point do I really need to go past the beginning 2 points?

 

You'll want 5 points before you get on the boat at the end of chapter 1, and you probably want to get to 13 by around the start of chapter 4 if not sooner. (The game throws up great big honkin' chapter title messages at the start of every chapter so you know which one you're in.)

 

I am having tough battles early here and wondering if I should be putting more initial points in defensive (Hardiness,Resistance etc). Maybe taking points after the early"demo" area? Or does the extra few defensive points for melee fighter and mage/priest spell points really matter in making early fights a little less ass kicking?

 

As a general rule, throwing as many points as you can into Hardiness is almost never a bad idea. Parry's not bad either.

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Hi Lilith-How do you rate the following spells for later in the game? I saw you weren't super impressed with Acid Spray in a post

Acid Spray

Blink

Cloak of Blades

Ward of Steel

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Acid Spray doesn't do enough damage per round to high level monsters compared to early game monsters that can be killed in two rounds.

 

Blink is random location that can make it worse in a crowded fight.

 

Cloak of Blades is useful when most attacks are melee, but in the last half of the game you are usually using spells to hit multiple targets.

 

Ward of Steel depends upon attacking monsters where you are defending against weapons where it's great or spells.

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xuerebx   

"You have learned Vahnatai magical secrets" in Coven Cave. In my 'special items' page I don't see this written down. In any case, what does this reward actually do? Thanks!

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"You have learned Vahnatai magical secrets" in Coven Cave. In my 'special items' page I don't see this written down. In any case, what does this reward actually do? Thanks!

 

You gain trait - Vahnatai Knowledge if you already have Vahnatai Lore.

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Lilith   

Hi Lilith-How do you rate the following spells for later in the game? I saw you weren't super impressed with Acid Spray in a post

 

I use Blink occasionally for getting into position to use a spell with a cone-shaped area of effect. I suppose you could also use it to escape from a losing battle. It's not so much a bad spell as a spell with niche application.

 

As for the others, I second what Randomizer said in the post below yours. I'm not the only person on these forums who can ever give good advice, even if I like to think so.

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What is the +4 Resistance people talk about when you get 13 Arcane Lore? I don't see it.....

 

Found it.

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Not sure what is a better "bang for buck" with Human Dual Wield Fighter in the Combat tree.-more points in Lethal Blow or Dual wield. I am sorta split evenly atm...

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Dual Wielding gives you both increased to hit and increased damage (reducing the penalties) whereas Lethal Blow gives you a slightly better chance of extra damage.

 

from the Slartyanalysis of Lethal Blow:

"2. If you DO get a check, you receive a bonus of 5% (as stated in docs) plus 0.5% per experience level, in addition to the chances from items (longbows, spears) or skills.:

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Dual Wielding gives you both increased to hit and increased damage (reducing the penalties) whereas Lethal Blow gives you a slightly better chance of extra damage.

 

from the Slartyanalysis of Lethal Blow:

"2. If you DO get a check, you receive a bonus of 5% (as stated in docs) plus 0.5% per experience level, in addition to the chances from items (longbows, spears) or skills.:

 

Thanks-which one do you think is more valuable? Chance of crits or chance of extra damage?

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You probably actually get a better value from putting extra points into basic melee skill. The value of DW and LB is relatively similar, but both have the drawback that you have to waste points in QA.

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I have 10+2 in Melee. I don't believe I can get it higher without some special item right? So....I got the points to spend

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Demon of Good Taste

I Know this is a spoiler request "of course" but did you ever post a list of your reputation gains from 2 years ago? I saw a post February 2015.

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Regarding Cave Lore-I'm almost done with Hard playthrough, and I put points in CL to see what I got for it the first time through. Needless to say the rewards weren't very compelling. My question is, does having a higher CL give you more opportunities to fight/pass on World Map encounters?

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Edgwyn   

It is supposed to, and I have the impression that it does, but I am not sure how much it has been tested.

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Need a spoiler-I am trying to get the Lvl 3's on Divine Host and Arcane Blow in the Castle, I have AL 13 VL 4 and have entered Garzahd's Area to the point I can return and go back and forth to it. I see the requirement chart says "Garzahd" as a requirement. What exactly does that mean? Do I need to defeat him first? That wouldn't make a ton of sense as game would be over at that point. I'm confused.

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There are 3 different game-winning quests. Defeating Garzahd is only one of them, and not everyone completes them in the same order. You may have noticed each game-winning quest has a pair of spells as part of the reward.

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even if you have finished all 3 major quests you can still continue playing and finish open minor quests or just wander around and killing random encounters.

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There are 3 different game-winning quests. Defeating Garzahd is only one of them, and not everyone completes them in the same order. You may have noticed each game-winning quest has a pair of spells as part of the reward.

I see now that that is true. For some reason I forgot that-so I guess I already won the game a couple times lol.

 

Thanks

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BTW-has anyone ever made a reputation chart for this game? I know Randomizer has a list of everything but I was looking for a condensed version for my next play through. I know Slartifer has a 2 year old post that he was going to post one but I didn't see it when searching.

 

Thanks

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