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I have no idea what's going on in this game! *A rant* [spoilers]


Owenmoz

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I just reached avadon. So here i am after dealing with nature and some more nature and its all so natural i became a compost heap. That while thwarting some bad guys and making peace deals. And at this point i am so confused about how this all goes. I.e. how many shaman factions exist? Free people? Why is everyone from that area bent on being a special snowflake? They are not. literally all shamans say the same things. What is Redbeard doing alive? I've killed him twice with a lot of effort put into it. Srsly he should stay dead. Why is everyone so bent on recruiting me and at the same time wont believe im on their side. How many factions are there!? People that should be on the same side are separately trying to recruit me? How am i going to survive rudow's quest the is only so much nature i can handle at once. Are there cities i can quest in? Civilisation?

In retrospect, i remember i asked for this on the warborn discussion thread. The relatively unclear beginning and being left on the dark part mystery kinda thing part. Its great. But I feel sorry for the hand i am. Already miss the quiet simple life of a scout and not having to deal with people and politics. But such is life.

 

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As Jeff said about writing for 11 factions, never again.

 

Sure things are a bit crazy or at least Redbeard is. That's why you need some clarity. Be a greedy self interest Hand and look out for yourself. Take what you can get from everyone and hope you can survive the madness.

 

I'd say it's going to get better, but I would be lying. There's a war going on and you need to fight.

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In the early game I had no idea what was going on and I couldn't remember why I was doing anything. It was frustrating. But eventually the pace picks up and your tasks are more focused. I think this is the best Avadon, the first reason being that every problem has no solutions that don't make me feel gross.

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Yah. I figured self interest would work best as none of your decisions are necessarily right. Might as well get the best i can from this.

And true this might yet be the best avadon. It is frustrating, but oddly satisfying at points. Although the bootlicker extraordinaire thing better pay off. I playing for way too many teams.

Redbeard new status update would be something like; 7 billion people 14 billion faces. Poor guy.

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I love Spiderweb. I like the Avadons. But the factions in the games never made much sense to me. Mainly because the games give you zero reason to care about any of them (and yeah, the Wyldrylm are the most cliched, tedious, one note, faction of all of them. So it's a shame Jeff spent so much time on them). The Geneforge factions worked beautifully (perhaps the best faction based RPGs I've ever played), just because each faction was connected to immediately perceivable issues regarding human rights (exemplified in the game via the Serviles) that were immediately translatable into real world situations. So you knew what each faction stood for and what was at stake instantly.

 

But I could never move myself to give two #$%#s about the Avadon factions. It's all digital squabbles over digital land in a digital universe, which has little connection to anything real (apart from the whole "freedom vs security" issue, although I never thought it was explored as well or as nuanced as the human rights issues in the Geneforges). It puts me to sleep. I still like the games, just because they are bread and butter Spiderweb. But I'm incredibly happy that Jeff is finally done with them and can move on to something else.

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I love Spiderweb. I like the Avadons. But the factions in the games never made much sense to me. Mainly because the games give you zero reason to care about any of them (and yeah, the Wyldrylm are the most cliched, tedious, one note, faction of all of them. So it's a shame Jeff spent so much time on them). The Geneforge factions worked beautifully (perhaps the best faction based RPGs I've ever played), just because each faction was connected to immediately perceivable issues regarding human rights (exemplified in the game via the Serviles) that were immediately translatable into real world situations. So you knew what each faction stood for and what was at stake instantly.

 

But I could never move myself to give two #$%#s about the Avadon factions. It's all digital squabbles over digital land in a digital universe, which has little connection to anything real (apart from the whole "freedom vs security" issue, although I never thought it was explored as well or as nuanced as the human rights issues in the Geneforges). It puts me to sleep. I still like the games, just because they are bread and butter Spiderweb. But I'm incredibly happy that Jeff is finally done with them and can move on to something else.

 

You just said everything thats on my mind. Geneforge really gets me unlike the other franchises )-:

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The changes aren't that much and you will just disappoint him with your next action. Quick raid is the middle choice.

I guess for now I will go with quick raid, his warning of "will result in greater destruction" is ominous about the mercy one.

 

Edit: I will say, a post like http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/20106-which-options-matter-super-spoilerific/ would be nice for Avadon 3. I keep finding myself very worried that I'll screw up some questline.

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I just finished the game. I will do two half replays. I don't think i can handle more wyldrim for a full one.

Meanwhile its a great game. Possibly more fun that avadon 2 for me.

I gotta say though: huge spoilers ahead:

 

 

So... Im disappointed with rudow's quest. Too vanilla and straight up laughable. Got sad at killing the shadowwalker though.

Khalida is frustrating but i liked her ending. Botan has a very interesting story.

Nathalie is fun but the quest is utterly predictable.(is there a way to save the eye though? Poor thing. Killing her is probably a mercy)

Silena was frustrating as well and bland. Very one dimensional. Her quest was boring.

 

I really liked doing important stuff even if the end was completely shrouded to me(thats a plus though i'd rather the plot twist have been something bigger)

Redbeard's fight was boring compared to avadon 2, it was all over the place and redbeard himself didn't do much damage, mostly his friends and constructs did. Though deff better than avadon 1.

Dheless was realistically human. But his story changed? Previous game he was a peasant now he's a noble? I was sad they lost the war.

Avadon one khemerians were more impressive.

I like the miranda redemption arc. She's like litalia done right.

Redbeard is annoying. Protus is more so though. I trust him little.

I was very pissed off at everyone in fort forsight. Few exceptions. But seriously those hands deserved dying. They didn't give me any sort of chance.

Gryfin was refreshing.

The warborn were well done gave me food for thought and jesus the high lord golath made it to my list of favourite battles. No avadon game made it and very few sw games did. Very fun battle. I did with Nathalie and khalida. I think khalida died right away. So one shaman and one sorcerer. Super challenging. Very fun very refreshing.

Which reminds me. While sorcerer and tinkermage are still master race shamans can work well. Two shamans can be almost unbeatable. Specially with Aura of the grove +7. That alone makes shamans have a decent edge.

 

 

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I quite liked the different factions in Avadon. They're well written and made me curious about exploring the different regions, even if the games didn't deliver much on that respect. Getting to know about the different squabbles all over your land makes it all the more interesting to be in the role of an all-powerful enforcer who has to pacify all of those factions. Way more interesting and nuanced than fighting for erm... "servile rights".

 

My only complaint about Avadon 3 is

how the war never seems like much of a challenge. You never get to intervene in big battles for your homeland, save a city from being massacred, put up a resistance on any of your fortresses. It's all smooth sailing from one region to the next, effortlessly ending the war. The main antagonist is not Dheless, but Redbeard and his escalating insanity. The main menace is being at the mercy of the guy you have to work for. Dealing with him through the entire game ended up feeling tiresome to me, since it's something you have to endure up until the very end of the game.

 

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how the war never seems like much of a challenge. You never get to intervene in big battles for your homeland, save a city from being massacred, put up a resistance on any of your fortresses. It's all smooth sailing from one region to the next, effortlessly ending the war. The main antagonist is not Dheless, but Redbeard and his escalating insanity. The main menace is being at the mercy of the guy you have to work for. Dealing with him through the entire game ended up feeling tiresome to me, since it's something you have to endure up until the very end of the game.

 

Tru

 

i was hoping for some ornotha ziggurat kind of thing. We're always on the winning side. There is no fighting to save the pact. Only fighting to stop Redbeard from being a prick to the farlands. Not that i liked protus much better. I believe he wouldn't be much better than Redbeard were he as powerful. Anyway i had hoped the farlands would be stronger and more united. Sadly no real challenge. A great game still.

 

 

I also really liked that there was a lesbian eye.

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Hm, is there a best Warborn tribe to make friends with, or just kill em all?

Ogres give an achievement. But everyone says they are horrible. Wretches and Titans are both good choices depending on what you feel like.

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Yeah I did the Ogres for the achievement, then Redbeard said "lolno".

 

Is it bad if I just kill everyone? Or does it hurt the Pact soldiers?

 

Not really. Makes it harder for you however.

 

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As long as it doesn't disappoint Redbeard or negatively change the ending.

 

Bwah ha ha! I live to disappoint Redbeard! Actually, I shouldn't talk since I haven't played the game yet and it'll be a while as I am currently in the Divinity series with several games to go but I've developed an attitude. I thought he'd be gone for good and a bit disappointed that he returns - so much could have been done game wise without him - but Avalon III will be my first purchase after I am through and I'm sure I'll have as much fun as I did in the first two.

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But the factions in the games never made much sense to me. Mainly because the games give you zero reason to care about any of them ...The Geneforge factions worked beautifully

 

 

Interesting persepctive because I have exactly the opposite view. Geneforge factions had an "alien" feel because the dilemmas were more science-fictional...what to do about a race that was engineered to like servility, while some were waking up to hate it...especially in Geneforge 3, where the choices were binary between a group of Shapers that wanted to double-down on their old practices, and a rebellion led by Drakons who wanted to smash everything the shapers had done...then do pretty much the same thing themselves. And power didn't corrupt just by being power...self-shaping corrupted people directly, resulting in some awesome villains who seemed to be on a self-reinforcing spiral of power and ruthlessness. Not like the real world conflicts I know, where combatants on both sides of any conflict are always in danger of exhausting or overextending themselves. Even in G5, no one really lined up with my own views (shaping dumb creatures is OK, shaping serviles and above is not, and canisters and geneforges are absolutely wrong)...although

interestingly, that's pretty much what actually happened in the ending I got, as a compromise between the factions.

 

 

In Avadon, by contrast, you've got a closer parallel with real-world historical questions: in a time of serious conflict, who rules? When is it permissible to rebel against your constitution, and on what grounds? What compromises do you make with your principles...or with tyrants...to stay alive in a hard world against some ruthless opponents? I've been pro-Hanvar's Council from the beginning, and the games give me increasing scope to do something in support of that view. (I haven't quite hit the end of A3 yet, so I don't know how close I'll come to it.) It has a less alien feel for me than the Geneforge series, though I love both sets of games.

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