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Unbound Servile

What do you think of Litalia?

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Owenmoz   

Well, let's say that I have predicted the outcome of the spoily one. ;) From what several people (humans, serviles and Drayks) say in GF4 and GF5 it wasn't hard to predict.

The first blows are done within GF5. Remember that weirdo servile that has a control tool? Foot-racer? She's loyal to Ghaldring and would allow me to pass. Guess what I did in order to help Phyllida of the human side.

 

Hahahahahahaha! Thats a mercenary heart my man! And true it was predictable. More so in g5 than g4 as at least ghaldring didn't seem too arrogant. I got annoyed at g5 for not bringing any voice to the rebelion. The best options are not the actual rebels.

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alhoon   

That was not mercenary heart. I didn't know that they had canisters (although truth be told, I guess they would have). I did it to weaken Ghaldring's faction in the rebellion. I was angry with him.

 

As for voice of the rebellion, Greta is quite open on working with Astoria, to the point of admitting it and vocal on her misgivings with Ghaldring.

As a note, the mod I work on now, includes several rebel quests for Greta.

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Blxz   

Wow. The paragraphs just got longer and longer. I haven't kept up. Although it seems at this point you seem to be going back and forth.

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alhoon   

Well, we've reached a consensus in most things but one: Gazers. Which I will talk about in another thread.

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Owenmoz   

Tbh i never really not kill footracer. I always powergame. So i always kill him. I said mercenary over the token that allows you safe passage. But i get you on that. Idk if it has any real effect though?

 

Greta is cool but she isn't really in prominent on that game. She seems to be there as a by the way.

Ahh i never got the mod. Unfortunately my main pc broke down so im stuck with a husk.

 

 

And tru. I met my match here. Actually better. And sometimes even i wasn't sure what we arguing about.

 

Tru again. Gazers are a danger to society!

 

Ps. I'm not being "too" responsive cause of work so; sorry.

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alhoon   

Well, Footracer is a she. :) Greta is by-the-way in the game, cause the humans are sidelined. Unfortunately. In a way, Litalia was by-the-way in GF4. She didn't do much except tell her story to the player and perhaps give 1-2 quests.

As of the mod nobody got it, since it's not the one I've uploaded, it's the one I work on. ;)

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alhoon   

I am making one, I didn't make it yet. That's the one with the rebel missions as the player takes over command of rebel outpost.

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Owenmoz   

Ah you are an angel. I always wanted that. But i had in mind to get kratoa kell or whats its name after makkar dies. But i'd settle for rebel base. Its grate i tells ya grate! I just wish i could take it over as a shaper or of the kind. Still doe. Grate.

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alhoon   
Ah you are an angel. I always wanted that. But i had in mind to get kratoa kell or whats its name after makkar dies. But i'd settle for rebel base. Its grate i tells ya grate! I just wish i could take it over as a shaper or of the kind. Still doe. Grate.

 

You won't have to. I planned exactly that for the Shaper side. But don't expect that for a long time. The Shaper\Lifecrafter one took several months.

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alhoon   

Back to what I think of Litalia, something more I found out: Litalia was the first to design control tools like the ones Rawal has made. She didn't like the idea not because it is downright evil, but because it may get your best tools (i.e. people working for you) killed before their time.

 

So, I think we're back to "I didn't see any atrocity or crime in GF that Litalia hasn't commit already"

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Yeah... it seems Litalia just gets more and more insane (and powerful) as the series goes on. Starting from GF3, she's already insane. The games after that simply make that insanity even worse. XD

 

I wasn't really too surprised when Litalia said she and Ghaldring designed the control tool way before Rawal. Considering who the two of them are, I'm not really very shocked to hear it.

 

"I didn't see any atrocity or crime in GF that Litalia hasn't commit already"

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm actually struggling to think of something really evil or insane that Litalia hasn't done already. XD XD XD

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alhoon   

I think of some, but they (thankfully) cannot be posted in a family-friendly forum.

Except the... veiled hints she had a crush on a big reptilian creature. In GF3 she clearly states she serves the Drakons although not as an equal. In GF4 though she is the head of the human side and at least considers herself equal to Ghaldring. In GF5 she cries once Ghaldring is killed and, crazy #### like she is, also says the chains are finally broken. Add on that that Ghaldring went out of his way to make sure no Drakon would harm Litalia. And that Litalia had nearly completed her genocide (or so she claims) before Ghaldring convinced her to just change the side she wipes out of existence and nowhere does she or Ghaldring mention Litalia was losing the battle with Ghaldring. It seemed as if she was winning.

 

Those hints that Litalia was as sick and canister-blind as to be romantically attracted to a big upright lizard because of the power it radiates, was in the game although it could well be my sick imagination and Litalia-bias. The kind of "Since Litalia mentions it, let's take it the worse possible way!"

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Owenmoz   

Ok so now we're kinkshaming litalia?

(I legitimately love how it's next to impossible to run out of subjects on this forum)

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alhoon   

To be more precise we are kinkshaming Ghaldring. It's as perverse for him as for Litalia. But Litalia is attracted to essence and is bat-crazy. Ghaldring is supposed to be the most reasonable of the two. SHAME on him.

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It actually sounds less like kinkshaming and more like bias against interracial attraction. They aren't animals; they're both clearly sentient and capable of making and understanding their own choices. It's unusual, sure, but how is it "perverse"?*

 

This forum, btw, is full of people who have been told, at some point in their life, that their own attractions to other humans are "perverse." Just some relevant context there.

 

 

*I also don't really understand where alhoon is extrapolating any of this attraction from -- it seems like a pretty far-fetched interpretation to me -- but at this point, the cat is out of the baboon.

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alhoon   

(Clearly I intend those in a lighthearted manner, although I do believe those things)

 

- Litalia is not able to understand her own choices as shown in her changing sides several times + "Unbound are awesome!"\"oh crap, I'll leave the Rebellion over the Unbound (that I helped create)", "Canisteeeers!"\"I am shaping myself to deshape myself", "Control tool are awesome"\"They are flawed", more things.

- In my opinion romantic attraction between a human and a 12' tall upright reptilian creature (inter-species attraction, not inter-racial) is perverse, not unusual. You said it yourself " their own attractions to other humans...". Drakons are not humans. Apes are closer to humans than Drakons.

 

In more serious note:

I believe there are some hints about Litalia's unnatural romantic attraction to Ghaldring from what I've seen in GF5 in her story and her ending if we add it on what Litalia says about the Drakons in GF3 (to the point I am now, early 3rd island).

I completely agree and admit that I pulled and twisted what was presented in the games to present Litalia in yet more bad light.

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They aren't animals; they're both clearly sentient and capable of making and understanding their own choices. It's unusual, sure, but how is it "perverse"?*

 

This forum, btw, is full of people who have been told, at some point in their life, that their own attractions to other humans are "perverse." Just some relevant context there.

- In my opinion romantic attraction between a human and a 12' tall upright reptilian creature (inter-species attraction, not inter-racial) is perverse, not unusual. You said it yourself " their own attractions to other humans...". Drakons are not humans. Apes are closer to humans than Drakons.

Mentally, Drakons are a whole lot more human than apes are. Animals can't really give consent; a drakon is certainly at least as capable of that as a human is. In reality, we don't have any other species that can give consent like humans can, which is why "inter-species" -- while technically accurate -- implies far more of a gap (as we use the word in our world) than what is really going on here.

 

I don't know how much you go for classic SF, but do you feel it is equally "perverse" when you have a human/elf pair like Aragorn and Arwen? Maybe elves look "human enough"; what about the parade of mixed children on Star Trek -- half-Vulcans, half-Klingons, half-Bajoran-half-Cardassians. Is their existence "perverse"? The Trek examples are explicitly different species (sometimes with radically different biology that surpasses Drakon/human differences: see the Changeling/Bajoran romance). (Spiderweb games have examples too: there is an NPC in A4 who is implied to be the offspring of a human and a nephil.)

 

Either those examples are just as perverse, or your judgment isn't actually about "species" as you state, but something else. And in that case, the parallel with calling someone "perverse" because they are attracted to characteristics of the "wrong" gender seems pretty clear.

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alhoon   

Of course I don't consider half-elves perverse! Elves are nice looking. They are "human-like" enough. I don't know about many of the STrek things, but Half-Vulcans are OK-ish in my book, half-Klingons are not. About the parallel with homophobia... I really don't see it at all, let alone "pretty clearly". It seems to me as a huge leap of logic.

 

 

Back to Litalia: I am not sure she's mentally able to give consent. She's bat-crazy.

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Either those examples are just as perverse, or your judgment isn't actually about "species" as you state, but something else.

Of course I don't consider half-elves perverse! Elves are nice looking... Half-Vulcans are OK-ish in my book, half-Klingons are not.

I think this makes it very clear that your use of "perversion" does not actually depend on species -- it depends on appearance.

 

Calling somebody else perverse because of the physical appearance they end up being attracted to...

 

klar.jpg

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alhoon   

Well, when the appearance is a 12 foot tall upright lizard, I do. We don't even know how Drakons reproduce BTW. I think it is mentioned that Drayks have eggs although I am not sure. Something in GF4.

Let me twist it a bit. What if Litalia was attracted to a sentient Vlish? Would you consider that non-perverse?

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What if Litalia was attracted to a sentient Vlish? Would you consider that non-perverse?

Let's not get started on tentacled creations. :)
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*Reads part where Litalia is supposedly attracted to Ghaldring*

I have a sneaking suspicion that the two of them are more attracted to the fact that both of them have completely wiped away their sanity to become extremely powerful beings. They seem more attracted to each other by the raw power that they possess, rather than any romantic connections. Wouldn't be shocking, given the individuals we're talking about here (Both of them are ridiculously power hungry, and crazy as well).

 

*Reads part about Litalia attracted to sentient Vlish*

*Tries not to laugh and gag at the same time at the image*

 

Off topic question: Aren't vlish supposed to have some creation support abilities over creations? In game text suggests that Vlish are capable of controlling dumber creations (Battle Alphas, Glaahks, basically creations that require a master to give them orders), and some of the Vlish players fight have more support capabilities to reflect this (Vlish that heal creations fighting alongside it, for example). They're not sentient, but we're sorta told that they're smart enough to be able to lead and support creations to a degree much like a Shaper/lifecrafter would. I'm trying to think of ways to reflect that; maybe if you create a vlish, your creations get some stat buffs? (Only problem I'm seeing is how it can be scripted in; I don't really know any tricks to do so at the moment.)

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alhoon   

I'll reply to that in the script thread. Let's keep that to bash Litalia, which I agree is attracted to raw power and canister abuse.

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Back on topic, Litalia's probably one of the most insane characters in the Geneforge series. Huge amounts of raw power, self-shaping abuse, kill counts that would make most psychopathic murders go green with envy, and complete insanity. And that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, I'm not surprised Ghaldring and Litalia are somewhat drawn to each other; they're very similar to one another in many aspects.

 

I think Litalia's an awesome character, in a dark, insane way, but at the same time, I would not hesitate to put a thorn or thirty into if I was given the chance. I'm actually surprised that the only NPC that gives you a quest to kill Litalia is that Drakon researcher in Gazaki-Uss; I kinda thought that some of the Shapers would give a quest to do that, considering that Litalia herself is a high priority target for Shapers to take down, as well as the fact that she leads the Trakovites, who both sides hate about as much (if not more) than each other. (but then again, if you can talk to that Drakon researcher NPC in Gazaki-Uss, you've already locked yourself in with Ghaldring's faction, so it's probably assumed that you won't be joining other factions anytime soon.)

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Nim   

(but then again, if you can talk to that Drakon researcher NPC in Gazaki-Uss, you've already locked yourself in with Ghaldring's faction, so it's probably assumed that you won't be joining other factions anytime soon.)

You can talk to her standing just outside the door, no need to join Ghaldring ;)

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alhoon   

You can always join and then get out of his faction...

Also the Shapers don't know probably that Litalia leads the Trakovites. And given Alwan's kinda insane obsession that turned pacifist Philosophy to Litalia's playground fanatics, I believe it's an omission that you don't get to say the line "Guess WHO leads the Trakovites! I infiltrated the sect making them trust me. I am ready to betray them for money now, since they can't train me in Shaping."

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Betraying Ghaldring's faction has more severe consequences than betraying other factions. Looking at the scripts, if you betray a Shaper faction or the Trakovites, the faction leader will be angry, but will let you go. If you betray Ghaldring, the second you step in Gazaki-Uss after doing so, the area will be hostile and everyone will try to kill you. Saw it in the scripts. You could totally just get the quests from Ghaldring's faction and then betray them, but meh.

 

I'm not really surprised that Alwan's got an obsession with destroying Trakovites. I mean, it is Alwan we're talking about. He's been known to be pretty fanatical in his beliefs ever since his introduction in GF3, so it wouldn't really shock me that he's got a thing for hunting down Trakovites.

 

I'm more surprised that the Shapers don't bother to keep Litalia on their radar. You'd think they'd at least try to keep track of her activities, given that she's known to be a real pain in the a** for the Shapers, considering her roles in GF3 and GF4. You can tell that Agent in Mera that there is a Trakovite Haven in the Okavano swamp, but you can't tell her that one of the biggest enemies of the Shapers is the one leading them. I find that pretty weird; you can tell Alwan for example that the rebellion are working on a new generation of Unbound, if you snuck around the Gazaki-Uss laboratories and didn't get caught, why can't you tell a Shaper "Hey, one of your worst enemies is leading the Trakovites! Thought that you should know that."?

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alhoon   

That's what I'm talking about. it would make finding the Trakovites more impactful even if we get a "I can't spare the resources now" or "We will wait to round their friends too." or something. I mean, the moment you tell Alwan\Taygen and perhaps even Rawal or Astoria that Litalia hit the grass, there should be a Terrestia-size celebration with Shaper cities throwing big balloon-like creations and fireworks and cities of the Rebels holding solemn memorials (and a few fireworks)

 

 

Someone should make a mod about that; checking that Litalia died and then being the talk in taverns in the random bubbles or random people, with big rewards from Shapers. And by big rewards I don't mean 600 gp, a gem, 2 crystals and a wand you don't need. I mean something really big. Rawal is Shaping-others-prone but the rest should offer LOTS of money at least.

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I'll talk about the possible mod and the rewards you could get from telling the Shapers that you killed Litalia in the other thread. Though I think the other councilors would probably be very pleased to hear Litalia's demise. Alwan would probably be the most pleased to hear about Litalia's death, considering his background.

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alhoon   

Well, I can't make all the mods. Someone else has to do that. :) If you do, I'll happily incorporate it in mine.

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alhoon   

I told you all, the gossipy whisperer I am!

"

 "Did you try to convince the drakons to take a different path?";

 "Are you mad? Of course! Ghaldring was my ... Friend is too weak a word. He is the one that set me free. And yet, the power of Shaping took his mind away.";

 

Here you are. As open an admission as a more-interested-in-the-gossip-than-facts person would ever need.

 

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 11:39 PM, Slartibus said:

 

*I also don't really understand where alhoon is extrapolating any of this attraction from -- it seems like a pretty far-fetched interpretation to me -- but at this point, the cat is out of the baboon.

 

From Litalia's own words...

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In the right context those words could imply a sexual relationship (although it would be a weird way to say it).

 

They clearly do not imply it here.  The contextual implication is unambiguously that "setting her free" was a much bigger deal to her than simply being her friend would have been.  You are willfully misreading the text and applying your own extrapolation.

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Kelandon   
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Slartibus said:

The contextual implication is unambiguously that "setting her free" was a much bigger deal to her than simply being her friend would have been.

Maybe you're just not reading enough into "setting her free." Free from what? Free from societal convention that said that it was wrong to love a drakon, that's what!

Edited by Kelandon
Yes, I'm kidding, if you can't tell.

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alhoon   
6 hours ago, Shut Your Eyes and said:

In the right context those words could imply a sexual relationship (although it would be a weird way to say it).

 

They clearly do not imply it here.  The contextual implication is unambiguously that "setting her free" was a much bigger deal to her than simply being her friend would have been.  You are willfully misreading the text and applying your own extrapolation.

 

I know I extrapolate in a big way and Litalia is free to sue me.

 

(I hope it's clear I'm not entirely serious about this. I consider it of adding depth to them both but frankly I believe the creator of the game never thought about it.)

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1 hour ago, alhoon said:

I hope it's clear I'm not entirely serious about this.

Either way, this is really a helpful clarification.

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Arcanum   
Posted (edited)

So I'm currently replaying G5 and I'm going for a Trakovite ending...does that exist? Does Litalia's quest chain lead to an ending? Or should for a more Trakovite-type story line should I go to the Dera Reaches and follow that guy's quest chain (can't seem to remember his name, it's been a while since I've played G5 lol)?

Edited by Arcanum
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Triumph   

And yes, you get the Trakovite ending inG5 by working for Litalia.

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Arcanum   
On 6/3/2017 at 6:40 AM, Triumph said:

And yes, you get the Trakovite ending inG5 by working for Litalia.

Ok so I'm on the third quest for her, the one to let out Taygen's Purity Agent for "temporary mayhem" but I'm having trouble finishing it and the G5 walkthrough is unfinished for the Dera Reaches. I've cleared out the Spire and the control panel is all mine, the options are:

 

  1. More energy
  2. Drain energy
  3. Emergency dump
  4. Energize agent

Obviously number four is what I want but if I choose that option a dialogue comes up about how the door to the control room gets shut and you die in their from exposure to the Agent. I know there is a stabilization conduit in the north-western end of the Spire and the only option that gives is to turn off the power flowing south to the lab. I've tried everything but I'm not sure how to proceed, can anyone please explain what I have to do to complete Litalia's third and hopefully final quest? 

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alhoon   

Isn't there an option to release it as is? It has been some time since I ran the whole "let's do every atrocity possible!" gameplay and I have tried to forget. I am trying to forget... :) (Ofcourse, I'm joking. I'm not judging you friend).

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Arcanum   
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, alhoon said:

Isn't there an option to release it as is? It has been some time since I ran the whole "let's do every atrocity possible!" gameplay and I have tried to forget. I am trying to forget... :) (Ofcourse, I'm joking. I'm not judging you friend).

I figured it out haha. No there wasn't an option to release as is because the Agent isn't finished because I'm not playing Taygen's storyline. So the control conduit in the north-west-most part of the Spire is irrelevant; at the end of the buffer ring that surrounds the lab there is a pylon device and if you click on it it'll say that this is the device that controls the emergency doors in case of an accident in the lab (an accident like energizing the Agent and releasing it prematurely which is what Litalia wants) and you just have to sabotage the device and that way the door in the control room won't close and everything's ok :) And yeah I decided to do mayhem path because years ago when I played G5 it's the only one I've never done.

Edited by Arcanum

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