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Avadon 3 Trailer

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I don't know if anybody noticed, but the Avadon 3 trailer is out.

 

Doesn't look that much different gameplay wise, but looks nice. Here's hoping it'll be a great game.

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I recognized the inventory screen shot from one of my games from the way items are organized.

 

I can't wait until we get to some of the places that were shown.

 

Jeff tweeted on April 19 tghathe was going to release a video, screenshots and web page

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Wait a second... Khalida?? Are the Avadon 2 NPC party members returning in the same roles? Nice!

 

I mean I'm less excited about what looks like Dedrik below Khalida, but you can't have everything.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, there is... a karaoke playlist ?_?

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Ooh! I wonder if this means we'll get any kind of follow-up to the fates of the Ava1 NPC party members?

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Coming out in Fall...

 

Let's see, with me currently a good way through my A1 LP, and if my A2 LP takes maybe 3 months... hmm, I think my timing MAY work out very nicely. Yeeeessss.....

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Some old and familiar Hands and others are back to haunt the PC. We get to find out some of what they have been up to since Avadon: The Black Fortress and Avadon 2: The Corruption.

 

That wasn't Dedrik. I'm still holding out for the return of Alcandar to prove that greed is good.

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We've only seen 4 zones as part of Chapter 1, so there is plenty of time and zones to explore. Four of the five screen shots are from zones we haven't beta tested and the artwork for the opening texts is new. Jeff's been playing ahead to test things himself.

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So the dream of no Dedrik is still alive! Huzzah!

 

Khalida and Alcander were definitely my favorites from Ava2. Contrary to Slarty, I would like see Nathalie return. She was fun.

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Hmmm, two crazy mages together, one male, one female. Now THAT could get interesting as they both like over kill.

 

EDIT: Nathalie and what's his name from II

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the only bad thing about that trailer is the fall announcement :<

 

i wish it come out on summer so i can binge play it on summer vacation

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Aww Yiss. Nathalie comes back!I see her! The one most in for the kill maelstorm of badassery is back! It really by far overshaddows the big disapointment that is dedrick's return. Wooo. Also please tell me no one "knows" alcander is not coming back? He was honestly one breath of fresh air in the game.

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After observing carefully the official screenshots. The most reccouring shaman looks like a woman with a rad haircut. There is one screenshot with a male and a female shamans. But the male is the main player. So yes folks, for all intents and purposes dedrik might end up not making a dreaded return to our monitors. If im seeing it right it seems some charecters from one return, some from two and if the shaddowwalker isnt yoshiria, some are comepletelly new. And with my birthday being in fall. Guess who wont have to save up till then *inserts the famed tyranicus nana party*

Ok in all seriousness i'd rather it was during summer

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I just hope somebody in the know can confirm Jeff is either finally removing the hard level cap (which I've always found to be a very poor "game balancing" mechanic in practice), or at the very least ensuring you won't reach it 2/3 of the way through the game as happened to me in Avadon 2. That really killed a lot of the fun for me in the final 20 hours. If it's going to be handled the same way in Avadon 3, I may need to wait a year or so and pick this one up on a sale.

 

That said, a new Spiderweb game is never a bad thing. And as a bonus, this means the Avernum 3 remake should be wrapped up in the next couple years - can't wait to get back into that one with Jeff's shiny new-ish UI and graphics treatment.

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Oh sweet, returning characters! From the trailer it looks like we've got Khalida, Nathalie, Dedrik, along with a new tinker(mage) and shadowblade. Of course, that's assuming we get 1 of each class.

 

Even if they aren't party members, I would still like to see the companions from the previous games in some capacity. I'm especially curious what's going on with Yannick.

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Those skill trees basically just look like straight lines. It doesn't seem like there's much possibility to branch between them, but maybe I'm wrong. Avadons have always been the most limited of all spiderweb games when it comes to character builds, but the old skill trees (while basically only having three lines) did allow for some branching between them.

 

Maybe the difference is just aesthetic, though. I can't really see how they work just from the video.

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Avadons have always been the most limited of all spiderweb games when it comes to character builds

The older games may have had more options in theory, but often the balancing was so lopsided that most of the skills might as well not have existed. Avadon may not offer more builds period, but it definitely offers more different viable builds.

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Trailer music and graphics are nice!

 

Avernum is infinitely better however, I feel. Avadon of course first received the New Graphics System, but is also more boring and causes little excitement. I played with the demo, but couldn't bring myself to continue after a couple minutes. Ave Avernum forever!

 

Also these sprite magic effects and the zombie animations are really the same re-used again and again. Not that big of an issue, but Avadon 2 demo was soo boring that it made me shy away from the Avadon series forever.

 

Ave Avernum!

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The older games may have had more options in theory, but often the balancing was so lopsided that most of the skills might as well not have existed. Avadon may not offer more builds period, but it definitely offers more different viable builds.

 

I don't know. I think this might be viewing things strictly from the perspective of the Spiderweb forums, which views everything through a very min/max mindset (seriously, within 24 hours of a game's release you guys basically have it cracked to the point that playing it is about as much fun as playing a spread sheet :). If you go by these forums, for example, there's no other way to play Avadon 1 than as a dex build. Which I dont think is true, even if dex builds are superior in many ways) . If you are min/maxing there's always one or two character/party builds that outshine the rest (Vogel seems unable to release a game that doesn't have at least one grossly overpowered skill and/or stat). I don't think that means that other builds aren't viable, though.

 

My problem with the skill tree in the trailer is that, on the surface, it looks like your only options are how much emphasis to place on which branch. Otherwise, the branches themselves are just straight lines. MAybe in practice that's not that different than what we had before (in fact, I don't think it is). But it just seems dull to me. Perhaps it's just a case of the change in aesthetic making apparent what was masked in the previous games.

 

And, if anything, I think the newer skill trees make things insane singleton torment playthroughs (which were always fun and viable in the older skill systems just because they allowed for greater hybridity) much harder.

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The new skill trees eliminates the need to put points in less useful skills. To get abilities in what used to be the left or right column, you no longer need to build up in what used to be the center column bottom skill. Theoretically you can maximize one row to get the higher level skills at higher level than under the old system.

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If you go by these forums, for example, there's no other way to play Avadon 1 than as a dex build. Which I dont think is true, even if dex builds are superior in many ways) . If you are min/maxing there's always one or two character/party builds that outshine the rest (Vogel seems unable to release a game that doesn't have at least one grossly overpowered skill and/or stat). I don't think that means that other builds aren't viable, though.

Here we go again with the straw man argument that people who analyze player options, are actually telling other people what to do. This is ridiculous. If you don't like spreadsheets, then don't play the game like one. If you don't like analysis, then don't seek it out. And if you enjoy playing that way, go ahead and do it.

 

I just said that Avadon offers more viable builds, and now you're complaining that "these forums" (read: optimizing analysts like myself) say there's "no other way" to play except one build. I would love a citation to any thread on these forums where there is a consensus of even a few frequent posters that there is "no other way" to play.

 

There's a difference between pointing out what is strongest and saying it's the only option.

 

To me at least, there's a distinction between build options that are

- not viable at all

- not viable on Torment

- viable, but suboptimal

- viable, and suboptimal, but also interesting

 

Even in Avadon 1, there were several strong and interesting non-Dex builds: 2 Shadowwalkers relying on Backstab (or whatever it's called in that game, I forget); a Sorceress absorbing magic from enemy attacks; and a Shaman with powerful summons. They were ultimately not as strong as a Dex build, but they were viable and interesting.

 

Compare to Shapers in Geneforge, where suboptimal builds (like Battle Shaping, or Battle Magic, buffing the PC's physical stats) don't really offer anything that is different from an optimal build in any interesting way, and some of them wouldn't even be very effective on Torment. Especially in G1-3 where it was hard to avoid the PC being a pack mule.

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In talking about the Avadon skill trees leading to a perception of fewer options, I believe something is being left out: the class system, which is different than any previous SW game. Geneforge had a class system, but it only nudged you in certain directions; all skills were still technically available to any character. Exile / Avernum are class-less (and Nethergate has the Celt / Roman distinction but is basically class-less too). Avadon has a much more developed class system, and an essential part of an effective, interesting, balanced class system is specialization. No class gets to do everything. Chances of do-it-all hybridization must be cut back in order to make class choices meaningful and strategic. In that sense, then, there are fewer options for any one character, but it's a function of the class system, not of the skill tree structure.

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But that leads to replayablity where you can play a different class as your main character and choose a different side in the game. You do have chances to play each class by bringing them along as the Hands for a mission. At least on normal difficulty you don't have to have an optimized party.

 

Plus you can get different dialogues depending upon which Hands are there. The best part of Avadon 2 was bringing Alcandar along to hear what he says and what others say about him with the imaginary eye rolls.

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Tech meaningfull replayability is a good thing. On the lines of more worth for you money or something. But most spiderweb games do that relating to factions and so. I'd rather have the geneforge/avernum thing were you could build anything and very possibly do everything. Here its simpler and more straightforward the lack of options really make choosing your skills easy. And then the retrain option makes it easier still. Of course triumph is right. Tech you have around 5 classes and each of them have a set of abilities but having to choose on that aspect makes it: 1 more constraining. 2 easier. Eg. Only part the agent in geneforge "cant" focus on is shaping skills. As such the rest of the agent's skill points have to be carefully/strategically distributed for your desired build. Which both gives you freedom and is more complicated which really rewards good planning.

 

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Here we go again with the straw man argument that people who analyze player options, are actually telling other people what to do. This is ridiculous. If you don't like spreadsheets, then don't play the game like one. If you don't like analysis, then don't seek it out. And if you enjoy playing that way, go ahead and do it.

 

I wasn't accusing you of anything and, honestly, meant it light hearted (hence the :) ). But I seem to have unintentionally touched a nerve, so I'll just leave you to it then.

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