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Edward Collins

Avernum or Exile?

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Which series do you prefer, Avernum or Exile? For Escape from the Pit, it's Avernum, hands down. I could not play Exile, because of the poor graphics (and when I complain about graphics, you know they are bad). For Crystal Souls, it's Exile. I like the 6 person Exile party over the 4 person of Avernum (that's 2 more pack mules to haul treasure out from caves). And a second reason is the re-release of Avernum (i.e., the Steam version) is more "streamlined" (no traits, for example- hopefully that won't follow into Avernum 3, but I doubt that), and I like the traits (Divine Warrior sounds really interesting).

 

Oh, and I hear people complain about the bad graphics, but I don't have a problem with that. It's graphics are on par with Baldur's Gate, although much less interaction of characters. Granted, they suck compared to modern games, but so what? Graphics shouldn't matter (within reason) if the story is good. And the Avernum/Exile story is good.

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I'm confused. All the Exile games have a 6 person party, and all the Avernum games have a 4 person party, so I'm not sure how either consideration becomes different with the second game of the series. They also all have very similar graphics, whether you are playing with the original set or the Exile 3 style graphics.

 

Inventory space was significantly more limited in Exile (12, 16, or 24 slots per PC, depending on the game) so Avernum parties actually have greater pack mule capacity despite being smaller. (There is also more loot, but the inventory size increase is really pretty significant.)

 

Finally, there are two different sets of remakes, the early 2000's Avernum Trilogy and the 2010's remakes (A:EFTP and A2:CS). Also, both sets of Avernum remakes have traits, although they work a little differently in the new series. (And Divine Warrior is a spell; maybe you mean Elite Warrior?)

 

All of that said, I can't disagree with your conclusion, I just don't understand how we got there :D

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I still say E3/BoE was when the series peaked, but I have to admit I've not played all the games. I really liked the interface and graphics of that one, it was simple and easy to use, which to me is much better than being technically good or 3Dish or whatever.

 

Also had way more weird spells...was a minigame in of itself to cast the identify monster spell on everything in the game...there are one or two monsters that are unique but don't appear to be (a cave giant chief, IIRC, the other chiefs are hill giant chiefs and there's also a particular big ogre), so you have to get them before you kill them. Detect Life had possibilities, but nobody seemed to do anything much with it.

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Finally, there are two different sets of remakes, the early 2000's Avernum Trilogy and the 2010's remakes (A:EFTP and A2:CS). Also, both sets of Avernum remakes have traits, although they work a little differently in the new series. (And Divine Warrior is a spell; maybe you mean Elite Warrior?)

 

 

I meant Elite Warrior and Divinely Touched. They give special abilities that you couldn't get elsewhere (although how useful they were I couldn't say- I skipped the first Avernum series, and only got the 2011/2015 remakes of EftP and CS). And in the remakes, the traits act more like D&D's 3rd edition feats, instead of choosing a couple ( possibly all of them) at Character Creation (and gaining an xp bonus/penalty depending of how many disadvantages/advantages you took).

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The remakes of Avernum are to the original Avernums as the original Avernums are to Exile. Don't be fooled by the names.

 

The original Avernums have traits that work like Exile's, giving bonuses or penalties to experience, but you can only pick two. The remake Avernums let you pick traits like feats as you level up.

 

—Alorael, who prefers Avernum to Exile. The extra years of polish help. He does prefer Exile's more extensive spell list, but not enough to prefer the series overall. He'll also go ahead and say that he thinks the remakes are better than the originals. The graphics are a little nicer (original A1-3 are particularly ugly) and the combat is the best of the lot. Given how much of the game is fighting, that's a very big deal.

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Now, if you would give me the re-remakes with a six person party and with dual wielding being less over powered I would be really happy.

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On 1/2/2016 at 3:46 PM, Edgwyn said:

Now, if you would give me the re-remakes with a six person party and with dual wielding being less over powered I would be really happy.

 

This. I never understood why the party size was reduced when remaking the Exile games into the first Avernum trilogy.

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6 hours ago, rebeltinker said:

 

This. I never understood why the party size was reduced when remaking the Exile games into the first Avernum trilogy.

It's also a shame how recruitable NPCs were dummied out in the Avernum remakes. Even if they couldn't replace other party members, it would have been neat if they could have been tacked onto the end of your party a la recruitable NPCs in Blades of Avernum. As it is, they just awkwardly refuse the call to adventure.

 

As for the main topic, I prefer the Avernum games to the original Exile ones. I liked the quirkiness of the Exile games along with their massive spell libraries, yet one feature that was a really big annoyance was the conversation system; I would always spend a lot of time trying to figure out what word to say or click on to get the conversation branch that I wanted, whereas the Avernum games spell out all your options right from the get-go.

 

 

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As someone who never really played the Exiles, for me it's a choice between the original Avernums and the remakes. I'm going to have to say that I prefer the remakes over the original ones, but there are aspects that I miss from the original Avernums, like how some spells worked (Haste, Slow, Bind Foe). Also, the archery was just way better. Call me a masochist but I loved gathering, micro-managing and buying the arrows for bows that were capable of actually harming enemies.

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I've played and beat them all, exile 1-3, Avernum 1-3 and the two new Avernums.

 

Honestly, it depends on the game for me, for the first game, I love the newest addition, this is because I find that when it came to Exile 1 and old Avernum 1, they were overshadowed by their sequel instantly in terms of quality of life, etc.

 

For the second game, I prefer the old Avernum 2, the newest one is good, but I'm not of fan of the race balance, and I didn't like how the new town he added in the latest Avernum never went anywhere besides a mini boss fight.

 

The third, I love the original Exile 3, mainly because it was the first one I played, I'll admit my rose tinted goggles, but the main reason is the menus are waaaaay better in 3 than in 1 and 2.

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As someone who was caught in the spider's web quite young, and missed the pre-isometric era, the updated graphics and interface (fields, combat, NPC interactions etc.) that were introduced in Nethergate and Avernum were a huge boon. I never really managed to figure out how things worked in the Exile demos.

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I found Jeff/Spiderweb with E2 & will 'always' have a soft spot for that game in my heart (Mrs TR may have a different opinion given the months & months of real time spent spelunking/making armies of strange creatures over the decades....alas).  That said, Avernum (& later the remakes) win out by far.  Over the years Jeff got better & better at creating a playable/getting yourself mentally involved in what's on the screen game.  Exile was great but it was a game on the screen.  Avernum & even more so AEFTP, at least for me, drew me in & let me BE the guys on the screen.

 

So Avernum...

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I think all of them are very good, however I think the newer games have been changed with the newer expierience of the developer, which is for the best.

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To be honest I have no big preference for one over the other. The only thing I would say that I miss is the six character party setup.

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