Geneforge 3 - Hints (without spoilers) and changes from GF5?

[alhoon]

I have no idea how long that would take. Where are the in the remakes?

[Triumph]

Jeff's routine has tended to be to alternate between making an all-new game and making remakes. Jeff is currently working on Avadon 3. Based on his recent pattern, after that he'll remake Avernum 3. After that, if he stayed true to pattern, he'd probably make another totally new game, and then after that, he might get to a Geneforge remake? But that's years down the road, so it's hard to make any definite predictions.

[Hyena of Ice]

For whatever reason, Jeff didn't feel any need to tweak the Agent graphic,

I don't think it was a lack of need so much as a lack of resources. The original Agent used Victoria 1 and some fantasy skins made for her and I think G2. By G3 Strout probably wanted to use V3, but there were never, to my knowledge, any similar green skins sold at DAZ or the now defunct Poserpros (I don't know if Strout bought Poser products from any other store or not) The remade Agent status portrait in G5 uses Victoria 3 who lacked a simple green fantasy skin.

She theoretically could have loaded a non-fantasy skin into GIMP and messed around with Color Decompose + toggle the HSV in order to get a green skin, then carefully erase the areas around the cheeks and lips (something that I have done when I want a nice fantasy skin), but it would have been a LOT of work, and I see very few examples of sprites/etc. that Linda didn't use straight out of the box.

And before anyone says anything, I don't know if image masks were even available for Victoria 3, and Strout only used reduced resolution skins for sprite and scene renders in G5 (image masks/dual layer shaders slow render time by a bit-- the additional render time woulfd have been significant back in those days)

You can tell that Strout tried to make Esther's status portrait skin Green in G5 postrender, but only succeeded in making her look jaundiced.

 

As for the Guardian, the model used for him in G1 was a very old and dated product by G3, and would not have looked very good with its improved graphics. Hell, the helmet was used for the A4/5 metal helm items, and you can see the polygons! Imagine how awful it would have looked in his status portrait barring a LOT of postwork! Also back in 2005, AFAIK, there weren't any suitable armor sets for Michael 2 that looked similar to the G1 Guardian.

 

Translation: I don't think it was a lack of need so much as a lack of resources. It was most likely due to a lack of fantasy skins for the current Poser female character (Victoria 3) that would have been used by the G3 era. The green skin texture used on Esther in G1 was for a different character model and could not be used on Victoria 3.

As for the Guardian, by G3, the model used for the G1 guardian was old and so low-poly that it would have looked crappy with G3's improved graphics, just like the metal helmet item in A4, and there were no suitable replacement outfits for the current character models that looked like the G1 Guardian's.

Poser and Bryce are the programs that Strout uses to render the sprites and background objects (but not ground tiles) for the SS games, going at least as far back as the original Avernum 1.

[alhoon]

Good thing you put the translation.

[alhoon]

Finally able to play a bit GF3 again.

I see now why Litalia tried to work with the Monarch in the beginning of the rebellion. She had filled the wood with rogues!

Rogues that don't differate between shaper and civilian or servile. Good going Litalia.

And as I recall, in GF4 Rebels also made spawners to bog down shapers.

[Slawbug]

Strout presumably does not do models anymore, because it doesn't seem like she works for Spiderweb anymore. Her name quietly left the About Us page some years ago. I don't think we even know which year. But I think the comments we heard about her and Poser were from A4, which was just about ten (!) years ago, so they're a little out of date anyway.

[alhoon]

In the first island (yes, I am still in the first one, haven't played for more that 5 hours) I found a lot of people (including Litalia and a mage that thinks he can put mines to woods and call them his) that say "attacks are happening everywhere in the islands and the mainland"

 

Ahem... is that a follow-up from GF2 or something? Or we learn about how they prepared and all, in bits and pieces through GF3-5?

GF4 starts with the rebellion well under way, burned cities and all. GF5 with half the Shaper lands ruined by Unbound and 10 years of war.

 

But...GF3?

How the not-yet-existing rebels managed to organize a widespread wave of violence to begin all in about the same time? How did they manage to keep under the radar for so long as to gather the requisite resources? Do we get answers to that?

 

 

Alwan doesn't believe the attacks are so widespread, and I don't blame him. To suddenly have up rebels and insurgents raise up and cause havoc everywhere without anyone noticing? That's really hard to pull.

[Triumph]

You might be giving the Shapers too much credit for vigilance and wisdom. Further on in G3, you'll learn some things about how the rebels could have built their strength under the Shapers' noses, and I think it's not too much of a stretch to suppose things could have developed similarly in other places.

[alhoon]

Thanks. I probably do give them too much credit since even in GF5, with Unbound kicking Shapers left, right and center, there are shapers that still think all is an exaggeration by weaklings and that is just a matter of time till the rebellion is crushed.

 

 

And everywhere in GF4 and GF5 the narrative was saying how complacent Shapers were and how even AFTER the attacks, in their arrogance they kept underestimating the Drakons.

Again, we have an infiltrator Guardian in GF4 that wants to head to the Drakon Capital and sabotage it from inside. And when my char told him "Dude, seriously? You think you can penetrate a whole CITY of Drakons?" the shaper scoffed at me and said "It's creations, I'm doing an easy job"

 

 

On another thing:

My game must be bugged? My creation (and Alwan, Greta) are LOWER level than me! They seem to earn XP at a different rate or not getting XP from quests or something.

They are definetelly not catching up to me at XP.

Did anyone else had this bug? Perhaps it's a bug of the "Saga-version" of steam that gives all the games in one package?

How could I fix it?

[Slawbug]

That's not a bug, that's a mechanic that has worked slightly differently in different Geneforge games.

 

In G3, I believe creations earn XP at 75% the rate you do, HOWEVER, it's not adjusted for their level. That means you can have creations whose levels truly skyrocket, because they can be at level 30 earning 75% of the experience a level 20 PC is earning -- normally the curve drops off a lot more severely than that.

[alhoon]

:(

 

Thanks.

 

Anyway: I found a guy that is diseased by a fatal disease a shaper made a century ago and that the shapers haven't eradicated. The Shaper was executed, but the damage was already done.

Greta pounced at the opportunity to bash the order.

[alhoon]

But...GF3?

How the not-yet-existing rebels managed to organize a widespread wave of violence to begin all in about the same time? How did they manage to keep under the radar for so long as to gather the requisite resources? Do we get answers to that?

Oookaaay, we DO get an answer to that. And it was NOT what I expected. It's similar but not exactly what Triumph said.

The Commander in Fort Kentia told me:

Monsters appeared in mines. Shapers were informed, and ignored it.

Later, orders came for a Quarantine from the Shapers. Shapers in the island didn't bother inform anyone else aside of the Shapers. That's not unreasonable, to inform just the teachers and commander and not the novices and civilians.

The reactions to the news of monsters and the quarantine:

- The Commander, having seen the signs from the monster attacks seemed to have stepped up her game, bolstered defenses and waited for orders from the Shapers.

She's still waiting for orders from the Shapers.

- The teachers did nothing, absolutely convinced of their invulnerability. They didn't make new turrets. They didn't ask for more guards. They didn't shape more battle creations. They didn't step up the training of novices to help. They didn't stock up on potions, bandages, food.

Then, Litalia came and killed them.

 

And Alwan, the ashes of his school still on his soles (I am at day 2) considers the whole thing a nuissance bred out of bad discipline.

 

So, the verdict is: Shapers were informed that something is happening. They were further informed that it was probably big, that it involved rogues. A few (at least the Ashen Island boss) tried to contain the rogues till someone could bother to clear them up.

And left it at that. After all, what could go wrong, by ignoring sights of rogues or at most saying "OK, we quarantine this place to clean it up after the Shaperball! It's the finals and Burnwood team will challege the Citadel's finest for the cup! We can't bother with armies of monsters right now", right?

[Blxz]

Alhoon, I honestly think you are missing out a little bit by playing in reverse. The story flows onwards reasonably well. Backwards just means that you know how things end up while lacking some of the backstory that would help you understand a few of the more subtle things. (like why the geneforge is such a contentious issue, etc)

[alhoon]

Well, I never intended to play GF1-3.

I just couldn't stop playing after GF5. I wanted to play more.

 

I am trapped!

[Blxz]

I am trapped!

 

Indeed. Quite the struggle. It has taken me years and I am mostly through 4 now. Have resisted the desire to play 5 ahead of time. Will finish this series one day soon. And already planning my next set of characters and alignments.

 

Thoroughly trapped.

[Randomizer]

Well, I never intended to play GF1-3.

I just couldn't stop playing after GF5. I wanted to play more.

 

I am trapped!

You have to remember Jeff Vogel has written about addiction to games. He knows how to feed your habit.

Part 1

Part 2

[Hyena of Ice]

How the not-yet-existing rebels managed to organize a widespread wave of violence to begin all in about the same time? How did they manage to keep under the radar for so long as to gather the requisite resources? Do we get answers to that?

You'll find out about this on the fourth/Gull Island, and get the complete story at the creation village at the final island (assuming you play a rebel during your first playthrough, that is. Otherwise you don't get AS complete a picture on the final isle)

 

So, the verdict is: Shapers were informed that something is happening. They were further informed that it was probably big, that it involved rogues. A few (at least the Ashen Island boss) tried to contain the rogues till someone could bother to clear them up.

And left it at that. After all, what could go wrong, by ignoring sights of rogues or at most saying "OK, we quarantine this place to clean it up after the Shaperball! It's the finals and Burnwood team will challege the Citadel's finest for the cup! We can't bother with armies of monsters right now", right?

Oh, it's far worse than that. Once you get to Gull Isle... You will be floored.

I should also mention that things are different on the second island-- the shaper(s) there can't be blamed for complacentcy. Thpough you'll learn more when you get there.

Yes, you'll notice that Alwan is a very different person in this game, a hot-headed extremist with a big mouth. (his reaction to the drunk at the Kentia bar is the best example, unless he was merely posturing. BTW, make sure to save your game to a backup slot, then alienate Greta, then Alwan on different saves. They both get angrier during the Harmony Isle departures than at any other point in the game.)

 

Strout presumably does not do models anymore, because it doesn't seem like she works for Spiderweb anymore. Her name quietly left the About Us page some years ago. I don't think we even know which year. But I think the comments we heard about her and Poser were from A4, which was just about ten (!) years ago, so they're a little out of date anyway.

Ah, I see. I'll have to look at the newer games credits and see who the digital artist(s) is/are. Also, she actually commented about using Poser to make the sprites? I didn't realize that-- I simply figured it out on my own when I recognized some of the models used.

 

Anyway: I found a guy that is diseased by a fatal disease a shaper made a century ago and that the shapers haven't eradicated. The Shaper was executed, but the damage was already done.

Greta pounced at the opportunity to bash the order.

Yup, Torsten. Having any second thoughts about still allowing plants and living items to be shaped?

BTW, you see more examples of how this leads to disaster in G2 up to Medab-- Medab is the third example in that game. One of the disasters (second one) is actually shaper-approved.

[Slawbug]

Somebody from Spiderweb (probably Mariann or Jeff) talked a bit about the model creation process on the forums and, IIRC, said that Linda took care of rendering. Poser was definitely mentioned, as immortalized in these little bits of culture:

 

http://www.stripcrea...tyvsdesk/340386

http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/slartyvsdesk/342420

[Hyena of Ice]

Ah. I actually recognize a LOT of the models. So far I've only seen them from Daz and er... a site I can't mention >_>

Still can't figure out what the hell the roamer is, though. Could that possibly be the Mildog? If so, then what the (bleep) did she do to it? And how did she keep the rigging from screwing up the bends? (big problem even with modern Poser/DAZ models when you dial in extreme/stylized morphs) O_o I mean, the animations are definitely very dog-like, but the thing looks like a mutant frog with teeth, LOL! (Seriously, I have not seen anything that looks even remotely like the roamer on DAZ or the other site-- not even in the Wayback Machine...) That said, she must have handed the program/files over to someone else as I see quite a few of the same Poser item/background object models in Avadon and the Avernum remakes that were used from G1~A4, and quite a few of those would not have been available at the Daz store by the Geneforge 4 era.

 

Oh, and to answer your question, yes, I do have OCD.

[alhoon]

Thanks Hyena.

I'm midway in the inner mines of the first island (yes, I'm just 8 hours into the game with frequent loads to explore more dialogues).

 

At which point should I make the "fall-back" save? I'm very pro-shaper so far, thinking that in order to walk the fence I'll rack-up Shep-rep now in order to be able to go more pro-reb later.

You know, in cases you can't in good conscience go pro-Shaper and let servilles be slaughtered just because one of them raised the possibility that perhaps life for them should be more than happily sweeping shaper floors.

[alhoon]

By the way, I forgot to share this with you:

 

www.gamefront.com/files/25288646/Servile.rar

 

Servile sprites from GF4-5 reworked in order to work in GF3. It's for the non-sword carrying servile. I don't mind different sprite for serviles with weapons.

Unzip it in your GF3 folder and over-write.

[Randomizer]

You can shift back and forth between the two sides, but certain quests won't be available depending on which way you are leaning at the time. Also both sides will want the same items so you will need to choose who gets them.

 

There really isn't a problem before you get part way through the second island. The main point is to be careful not to acquire a certain special item in the lower level of the Shaper's place. So have some saves there.

[Hyena of Ice]

You don't need to make a backup save for playing around until you reach the second island.

 

BTW, there's a dummied out dialogue with Alwan at the Harmony E. Docks (first zone on Harmony Isle, the second island). If you want to read it, then you will need to (assuming you use Win7) go to Computer>>Programfilesx86>>Geneforge3>>Data>>Scripts Open the file named z15eastdockdlg.txt (preferrably in Wordpad or Notepad++ rather than notepad) Shame they dummied it out. It's one of the few times in G3 where you actually see Greta get angry. You should take a look after you clear that area

 

 

There really isn't a problem before you get part way through the second island. The main point is to be careful not to acquire a certain special item in the lower level of the Shaper's place. So have some saves there.

You will want to pick it up before you leave for the third island, however, as you get a ruby necklace if you give it to someone at the Dhonal Inner Keep.

Being pro-shaper until after you do business with the blacksmith at Dhonal Inner Keep is the way to go. You will want to try and move your alignment closer towards the middle once you enter the third island/Dhonal Isle, as one of the shopkeepers at Ft. Wilton will give you better deals and sell additional items if you give her research notes (which is only possible if you are slightly pro-rebel) You may want to hold off on this however, as you need to be at least slightly pro-shaper in order to get Mooney's quest at Wilton.

 

Oh, that reminds me, DO NOT sell any of your dried herbs, research notes, or shaper equipment. Also, on Harmony Isle, you will need 3 wiry moss for a quest, so make sure not to sell them all. Don't give all of them to the person who asks all at once-- unlike in G4, you get the same amount of experience per item given regardless of your level (for example, IIRC you get 4 xp for every dried herb you give the herb lady-- so you get the same exp per herb regardless of whether your level is 10 or 40. I believe this rule also applies to G2.)

 

Oh, and when you get to Kyra's Refuge (optional area at the Harmony West dock) the specters (and I think the ghosts as well) have a 1% chance of dropping an Agent Cloak. So repeatedly backup save and wipe out the ghosts until you get one-- otherwise you won't have a chance (and it will only be a remote one) at the end of Dhonal/the third/largest isle, and barring that, you won't get it until you clear the 4th island. Also, if you do get one, then be sure to postpone augmenting it until you can get your hands on a golden crystal (this won't be until near the end of Dhonal/the third isle)

 

Another tip-- Always save before talking to someone new. If you get a key or convince them to unlock a door/chest, then re-load the game and lockpick it-- usually, you'll get more for using living tools on the locked door tghan you will for convincing them to open it for you, give you the key, or for using the key (ALWAYS RE-LOAD THE GAME IF YOU ACCIDENTALLY GET A KEY!! *unless it's an essential one, such as Khyryk's/Agatha's key to the Khor's docks) See now why I told you to get 10 mechanics ASAP?

[alhoon]

I... usually go for unlock spell. How much XP locks give? It can't be too much. In the mines, there were tons of doors. If I used living tools, I would have burned through all of mine.

 

I am lvl 9 with 6 mechanics, 6 leadership and I am clearing out stuff that Litalia couldn't be bothered to clear from her lair. Her shade dropped by and told me as much.

 

She literally showed up, said "Hi. In there, there is a creation that served its purpose. Clear it out, OK? By the way, think on join me. We're awesome. Seriously. I have grand plan that I won't tell you about."

Without ANY word of what they fight for. If I hadn't spoken with a servile and random people in the island, I wouldn't have even an inkling that they fight for the freedom of creations.

And it's so mild that if I hadn't played GF4-5 I wouldn't actually be sure that this was the reason.

So, GF3-wise, my character has no idea why this mass murderer asks him to join.

[Nim]

I... usually go for unlock spell. How much XP locks give? It can't be too much. In the mines, there were tons of doors. If I used living tools, I would have burned through all of mine.

 

I am lvl 9 with 6 mechanics, 6 leadership and I am clearing out stuff that Litalia couldn't be bothered to clear from her lair. Her shade dropped by and told me as much.

Don't worry about lockpicking xp. The way the xp system works the xp you gain from picking locks on the first 3 isles (at least) won't really make a difference longterm.And if you have only 6 mech now you will run out of living tools. I go for 11 mech from the start and I run out if I use tools for every lock instead of keys.

She literally showed up, said "Hi. In there, there is a creation that served its purpose. Clear it out, OK? By the way, think on join me. We're awesome. Seriously. I have grand plan that I won't tell you about."

Without ANY word of what they fight for. If I hadn't spoken with a servile and random people in the island, I wouldn't have even an inkling that they fight for the freedom of creations.

And it's so mild that if I hadn't played GF4-5 I wouldn't actually be sure that this was the reason.

So, GF3-wise, my character has no idea why this mass murderer asks him to join.

Yeah, there isn't really any good reason presented to join the rebels till you get to Gull at least. G1 and 2 have very strong beginnings, while G3's is just lacking.

[alhoon]

Eh? I actually find GF3 beginning to be the best from GF3-5.

I have people talking to me with respect. Bowing before my majestic hooded figure.

 

I'm not anymore a freak. A crime to exist. A rogue creation that happened to be borned before it was ... changed. People don't teach me because they don't know shaping, not because it would be against anything they believe in!

[Nim]

Greenwood and Harmony are boooring and bland. Maybe if you ever play G1&2 you'll understand

[alhoon]

Well, truth be told, after the STRONG start in the academy, the game became a bit bland. Not boring, but not "spicy" either.

I mean, 3 mine zones to get to the creator was a bit overkill. Especially since the second map was basically a big tunnel with outlying rooms.

 

Haven't been in the testing grounds yet though, or through a hatch I found in a zone.

[Nim]

He could have done so much more with the school start tho. Starting with a session with the teachers and the other students so that we actually may care when they die later.I mean, did you care about those dead unnamed teachers ? Remember what Greta asks you about in South End, whether it is right to kill a mishapen creation or nor ? Could have actually shown that. Stuff like that could have improved things, but then Jeff seemed unusually constrained for time with G3 judging from the amount of stuff that is only half implemented. Ugh, I'm rambling. Better go back to Gull and finish the rebels

[Hyena of Ice]

am lvl 9 with 6 mechanics, 6 leadership and I am clearing out stuff that Litalia couldn't be bothered to clear from her lair. Her shade dropped by and told me as much.

Oh, wow, you missed out on so much! I told you to beef those up to 10 ASAP! You missed like 150 xp from convincing the Thahds to leave the Captured Bridge among other goodies. Forget boosting any other stats until you get your leadership to 8 and your mechanics to at least 7.

Also, you're following my advice on making sure you always get a red crystal from the crystal formations, right? If not, then you're missing out on a lot of moola-- same with making sure to only kill the spawners that drop 3 objects (save the game, kill all the spawners, make a mental note of which ones drop all three gems, then load the game up and only kill the spawners that drop all three, avoiding the others. Come back later and repeat this process, only killing those that drop these goodies)

You get insane amounts of XP on the first island from picking locks (but make sure to postpone whichever locks you can that require 3 or more tools until it's higher)

I wouldn't bother raising mechanics above 10, I think it's a waste IMO. Leadership, OTOH, I would raise to 11, as this will save you the trouble of buying the charm spell, which will save you at least 2000 gold, which you can spend on augmentations on the final island and at the Monastary, instead.

 

Starting with a session with the teachers and the other students so that we actually may care when they die later.I mean, did you care about those dead unnamed teachers ? Remember what Greta asks you about in South End, whether it is right to kill a mishapen creation or nor ? Could have actually shown that. Stuff like that could have improved things, but then Jeff seemed unusually constrained for time with G3 judging from the amount of stuff that is only half implemented. Ugh, I'm rambling. Better go back to Gull and finish the rebels

I think Jeff was rightfully concerned that players would have found this annoying, as it would have postponed the REAL gameplay by quite a bit. Trust me, long game intros can be aggravating (looks at Star Ocean 2nd Story as an extreme example)

But yes, I agree that a little bit of this would have been cool, and if there is a remake, then hopefully the school will be much bigger, and you start out the day before the attack, free to roam around some places and talk to people, and ending the day by getting the formula wrong (hopefully you'll just get the entire thing in a cut scene rather than having to manually go to bed)

In the "what do you wish to see in the remakes" thread, I said it would be cool to have more survivors, and a possible side-quest of repairing the school, which consists of an additional two regions in the game (arboretum and second floor-- and getting access to some of the collapsed areas as you repair the school) The plot reason for repairing it being that most of the remaining students are injured. Compared to the day before of course, there wouldn't be very many survivors. Like-- 4 unwounded non-stock characters, 2 or 3 wounded stock characters, and several stock wounded and stock guards) If you picture the place as being A1~2 remake 2/3rds of The Castle-level large (disclaimer: I have only played the remake demos, so I'm simply making assumptions here based on A6)

[alhoon]

I would agree with Hyena. If I had to sit through a "go fetch the regents from the table" kind of tutorial, I would have liked the start less.

And knowing shapers as we do... meeting the professors we would probably like them less.

 

About Thands on the bridge: I did convince them to leave. But that was probably anti-shaper and I wanted the rep. So... I loaded and killed them. It was something like 50XP if I convinced them to leave.

Save\load before each crystal? That would be... long. I don't mind missing some money.

If I go that way, I could just ... open the script and add more money to the reward.

 

As for boosting mechanics\leadership: I... had to buy up strength. I found a girdle that gives me strength, but I am AGAIN heading towards the "Time to increase strength so I can have more than 20lbs available".

I am a hoarder. I have like 40 pods etc. I remember from GF4-5 that in the beginning, you make your "Stash" of spores and pods and later on you just replenish it. Living tools, that I have 22 or so now, weight 1lb each! The Crystals are 2lbs each (so I ignored the flawed)

 

 

 

As for repairing the school and wounded novices: There's a healing pool and essence pools. All characters start with healing. In less than an hour and the player character would have healed everyone non-maimed or seriously injured.

[alhoon]

About cheating:

I was thinking to semi-cheat, and reduce the weight of living tools. It's 1lb/tool now!

I didn't find an editor. If anyone knows an editor that can reduce the weight of living tools, I would be thankful.

 

I am also, seriously considering cheat-increasing my strength by 2 points to be able to carry more stuff.

That's not semi-cheat, that's clear cheating.

I am used to carrying lots of extra equipment on my inventory and changing in and out as needed.

For example, in GF4-5, I had my "+X to shaping" gear in my inventory and was doning them when I wanted to make creations.

I also had the "+X to mechanics" gear in inventory.

 

This seems to be near-impossible in GF3. Further raising of strength would cost serious skill points.

I don't think that was an over-sight, it seems to be a decision that affects gameplay of the developers.

"Don't carry 25 living tools, tons of crystals and pods and 3 sets of armor. Leave them somewhere to go grab them"

 

I don't like though, and I believe I'll enjoy the game more, being able to carry some more equipment.

I never fight in melee, even when enemies are in melee, so it wouldn't affect my damage.

[alhoon]

Finished Harmony Island.

 

And found the first problem of the story. As I was asked by my sister, I had no good answer.

 

She asked "So, why you left that island and went to the next one? What was your character hoping to accomplish?"

Good question. "Getting Vlish and playing the game further" are not exactly story answers.

"Pursuing a mad, all powerful Shaper! Waaay more powerful than us and also checking if Litalia was sincere and the Shapers there were having problems that Full Shapes couldn't solve, but a shaper fresh out of the Testing Grounds could!" also sounds lame.

[Nim]

About Thands on the bridge: I did convince them to leave. But that was probably anti-shaper and I wanted the rep. So... I loaded and killed them. It was something like 50XP if I convinced them to leave.

No rep involved there. Just a thahd skin tunic you may miss if you let them go. Also, please trust me on xp, it really doesn't matter when you "miss" some in the beginning.

Save\load before each crystal? That would be... long. I don't mind missing some money.

If I go that way, I could just ... open the script and add more money to the reward.

Just for reference, I bought all spells, all creations and all training possible (except blessing magic, leadership and mech), all living tools and a few essence and armor pots, stopped picking up stuff mid-isle on spears and still had 12,7k left.That was as a strict loyalist. So if you only get the training that makes sense for you and don't buy everything that looks halfway decent you'll have plenty of money for forbidden stuff

 

As for boosting mechanics\leadership: I... had to buy up strength. I found a girdle that gives me strength, but I am AGAIN heading towards the "Time to increase strength so I can have more than 20lbs available".

I am a hoarder. I have like 40 pods etc. I remember from GF4-5 that in the beginning, you make your "Stash" of spores and pods and later on you just replenish it. Living tools, that I have 22 or so now, weight 1lb each! The Crystals are 2lbs each (so I ignored the flawed)

Don't be a hoarder in the old engine games. It will just drive you mad and be very unenjoyable. Way I see it you can either be a deadweight shaper, a strength melee guardian/agent or you clear a zone first and loot after. Also no reason to carry around more than 10-15 living tools at once.

 

This seems to be near-impossible in GF3. Further raising of strength would cost serious skill points.

I don't think that was an over-sight, it seems to be a decision that affects gameplay of the developers.

You have it backwards. It was a clear decision from Jeff to finally change it in G4 to a non-shitty encumbrance system.

Finished Harmony Island.

You mean Greenwood right ?

She asked "So, why you left that island and went to the next one? What was your character hoping to accomplish?"

You were just following the advice of the servant mind in the school. Unless you forgot to check in with him again after getting to Fort Kentia.

[Slawbug]

You are going to start encountering a lot of those reverse-changes in this game and the next two, BTW. So be prepared. This is one of the reasons people usually don't play in reverse, you get used to improved interfaces and mechanics and then when you have to deal with messy versions it's more frustrating.

[Nim]

Limited money on merchants, especially when those then are blocked off by faction. Skill books that exclude you from training. Hmm, I think canisters worked like that too right ? Man, G2 was def the worst mechanically.

[alhoon]

O_O

 

okkaaaayy... that would be a bummer.

 

You were just following the advice of the servant mind in the school. Unless you forgot to check in with him again after getting to Fort Kentia.

I did. I forgot about it cause it seemed a bit... weird.

Taking suggestions of creations? Bah! Am I a creator of life with unchallenged superiority over those I brought to existence or a half-baked damaged "life-crafter"?!

[Nim]

Not weird at all. Shapers value servant minds. Now taking orders from one that would be unshapery. But suggestions are fine. And besides, you would have gotten xp. And you will get access to a previously cutoff area in the basement with 2 living tools and a terror wand.

[alhoon]

I did tell him about what I learned. I just forgot that it suggested I should go inform the Shaper boss of the islands. But I'm not spending the 3-4 minutes required to go back to school basement in order to get 2 living tools and a terror wand.

 

 

Anyway, is there a way to "split" a cache without selling half of it? I want to carry 7-8 out of 29 LT I have but store the rest instead of selling them. And I can't find a way to do it.

[Triumph]

Yeah, you can split items. Just hold the down the Shift key as you click the stack.

[Randomizer]

You are going to start encountering a lot of those reverse-changes in this game and the next two, BTW. So be prepared. This is one of the reasons people usually don't play in reverse, you get used to improved interfaces and mechanics and then when you have to deal with messy versions it's more frustrating.

A good example is Daze starting in GF3 affected more than one creation. This makes a big difference at the start in dealing with swarms.

[Dragonboy]

Daze is pretty overpowered in G3, working on pretty much everyone (besides the undead and turrets) straight through the third island. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

[alhoon]

I actually never use daze.

[Hyena of Ice]

You should. Seriously. Golems, Shades, Turrets, and Spinecores are immune, but everything else can be affected.

 

Yeah, aside from physical attacks getting nerfed, G3 is such a huge improvement over G2/1 in many ways, and not just the graphics.

 

1. As mentioned earlier, if you use a spellbook or canister to improve a skill, then that counts as a "trained level" in G1 and G2. So always make sure to buy two levels in a spell before using a book or canister.

 

2. No shift key + click item function, so every time you pick a stacked item up/drop a stacked item, it will ask you how many to pick up/drop.

 

3. Geneforge 3 was the first SS game in which items could be coloradjusted. In other words, in G1 and G2, all the equipment is the same color, and there are fewer equipment sprites (excepting spores), so a lot of weapons/armor/gems/etc. use the same sprite, same color.

 

4. Geneforge 3 is also the first SS game in which you can put items in containers. So... have fun dropping everything you don't carry with you on the floor. I'm not kidding here. You can take things out of boxes/chests/etc., but you can't put them (back) in.

 

5. Think it's annoying that G3 doesn't tell you how much damage is resisted? In G1/2, you aren't even told what type of damage is inflicted!

 

6. What was mentioned earlier-- in G1.2, there is limited money in the game. Each shop has a limited amount of money. So when you buy something from them, they gain money, and when you sell something to them, they lose money. Eventually, they will run out of money. Esp. since IIRC you can get spoils from spawned creatures you killed (you can also farm experience from them, so go nuts.)

 

7. The item menu interface is annoying. It's not a separate window-- instead, it's a window on the side, that you scroll up/down. This makes it impossible to tell if you've reached your item # limit until you try to pick something else up.

 

8. Worst of all-- In G1 (but thankfully not G2), the data on which doors you unlocked is not saved when you leave/re-enter a zone. So each time you enter, you have to unlock everything all over again. Oh, and did I mention that you can only unlock a door one tool at a time? In other words, if you need to use 4 living tools, then you have to actually use living tools 4 times. I'm serious. At least there is an unlock spell...

 

BTW, make sure to play as a Guardian in G2-- Parry is totally broken in this game-- it gives something like 4 or 5% parry rate per skill level.

[Hyena of Ice]

About cheating:

I was thinking to semi-cheat, and reduce the weight of living tools. It's 1lb/tool now!

I didn't find an editor. If anyone knows an editor that can reduce the weight of living tools, I would be thankful.

YOu can change the weight in the G3itemchars.txt.

BTW, the living tools weigh the same in G1 and 2.

 

Greenwood and Harmony are boooring and bland. Maybe if you ever play G1&2 you'll understand

Harmony and Dhonal are my favorite isles, partly because of Harmony Isle's atmosphere. The background noise is definitely the best swamp BGM of any geneforge game (though I haven't played 5 yet)

 

No rep involved there. Just a thahd skin tunic you may miss if you let them go. Also, please trust me on xp, it really doesn't matter when you "miss" some in the beginning.

Or, use a speed pod, carefully place yourself/companions close to the bridge, and the split second the dialogue ends, initiate combat and attack the thahds with icy crystals before they can escape, like I do. Also, I ration my kills-- e,g, I go through areas and kill the worms, thahds, and fyoras first and unlock the low level doors. Then I save the higher level doors and artilias for later.

 

Yeah, you can split items. Just hold the down the Shift key as you click the stack.

Yup, just like in G4.

[Triumph]

1. As mentioned earlier, if you use a spellbook or canister to improve a skill, then that counts as a "trained level" in G1 and G2. So always make sure to buy two levels in a spell before using a book or canister.

 

8. Worst of all-- In G1 (but thankfully not G2), the data on which doors you unlocked is not saved when you leave/re-enter a zone. So each time you enter, you have to unlock everything all over again. Oh, and did I mention that you can only unlock a door one tool at a time? In other words, if you need to use 4 living tools, then you have to actually use living tools 4 times. I'm serious. At least there is an unlock spell...

 

Regarding point 1, that's an issue only found in G2, not G1. Regarding point 8, I'm about 99.9% sure you are completely wrong, because I never had any issue with having to repeatedly unlock the same doors over and over, nor have I ever heard of anyone else having that issue.

[Nim]

No rep involved there. Just a thahd skin tunic you may miss if you let them go. Also, please trust me on xp, it really doesn't matter when you "miss" some in the beginning.

Or, use a speed pod, carefully place yourself/companions close to the bridge, and the split second the dialogue ends, initiate combat and attack the thahds with icy crystals before they can escape, like I do. Also, I ration my kills-- e,g, I go through areas and kill the worms, thahds, and fyoras first and unlock the low level doors. Then I save the higher level doors and artilias for later.

If you want to sperg you have to do it right Choose attack dialogue, daze, kill every thahd except Ghurr, leave area, come back and use leadership option, then forceattack and kill him for xp and tunic thus saving a speed pod and icy crystals.

[Slawbug]

Triumph, are you sure? I really thought the early "spellbooks" in G1 did work that disappointing way. Maybe not canisters?

[Randomizer]

I don't think there were enough spell books in GF1 that were encountered before you usually got the training in those spells. GF2 changed the spell system so that was a problem.

[Triumph]

Re: G1 and skills, yeah, I'm pretty sure. G1 doesn't have much in the way of non-canister methods to gain spells or creation skill. There's the servant mind at the school (IIRC) who can boost your Firebolt, but otherwise, so far as I can remember, all spells level and creation-skill levels come via canisters. As for regular skills, there are people you can pay to boost a few skills (Leadership, Luck, and Mechanics), but those still trainers work even if you've spent some skill points there already. The Tombs can boost your magic skills, but you have to already be invested in those skills before you can obtain the bonuses.

 

What on Sucia am I missing where boosting something by one means locks you out of another means? It wasn't until G2 that trainers became more prevalent and we got stuck with the awkward avoid-boosting-skills-until-you-can-reach-the-trainer nonsense.