PC Showdown

[Dragonboy]

There's a recent thread here, The Empire Strikes Back, that pit Spiderweb empires against each other. There's a lot of discussion going on there, a lot of which hinges on some very important unknown factors. It got me thinking. We don't know all the factors about each games respective empires, but we do know our characters powers very well. It was obvious what had to happen next...

 

Who will win the ultimate showdown?!

 

I'm going to set down some basic rules so we can settle this straight.

 

1: I chose the last game of each series in this competition so we wouldn't quibble on which game we are referring to. I included Avernum 3 because the first trilogy has a completely different engine than the second one. Any game not mentioned is not included so don't go trying to bring proofs for your opinion from other games.

 

2:The battles between the PCs take place is some sort of other dimension (feel free to write a fan-fic) or whatever random place you want to believe. Simply put, there's no home advantage for any PCs.

 

3:Along the same lines, everything a PC can do in game via spell effects or something else will work now exactly as it does in the game.

 

4:The PCs are endgame PCs. All equipment and items that a normal endgame party have at the end of their game are what they have here. (There is a way in Exile 3 and I forget but maybe Avernum 3 also to get infinite knowledge brews and money which means you could have a perfect party, this does not count as that is not an average endgame party. Similarly, the PCs have only the amount of potions and scrolls that an endgame PC would have and not what they theoretically could have.)

 

5: Damage done is by the attacking PC's system, resistance and dodging by the defending PC's system. (I should also point out that attacking PC's damage is by actual damage not the average in game. For example Kill in G5 does 600 damage but most enemies resist as least some of it so it usually does around 400 so if a G5 PC casts kill on a AEFTP character with 50% resistance it will not do 400 - 50% = 200. It will do 600 - 50% = 300 damage.)

 

6:If one game's PC can cast or use an effect that is not found in another's PC's game, the defending PC will resist based on whatever sort of status effect comes closest in the defending PC's game. For example, Daze will work no better on an Exile PC than Sleep does and vice-versa.

 

7: In order than this thread doesn't turn into whoever-goes-first-wins, the PCs, just like it usually is in-game, will have prep time to buff up with spells and potions before the fight.

 

Honestly, when I thought this up, I had no idea who win this. So I'm going to refrain from voting until I hear some opinions, but to open things up I will start off with some points on Exile.

 

First off, Exile has two big cons in this fight; their low health and their low damage compared to the other PCs. An Exile fighter only does about 15-20 damage by himself and 25-30 when blessed. Also, assassination is powerful skill but it really only works on people lower level than you so it probably wouldn't work too well on equal or even higher level PCs. Still, they have a lot of advantages going into this. They have dual-wielding for one, and Major Blessing gives them three attacks per character. I usually have one spear-man and two dual-wielding swordsmen in my party. That's 15 hits per round! Throw in two Curse All's and they could do massive damage. And the mages! We got Avatar for one thing. Slow All, Bless All, and Curse All are powerful when combined. Also each mages can cast three spells a round so with three spellcasters we get 9 spells per round! We also got Kill and Death Arrows which can do a lot of damage plus, of course, Divine Thud and Firestorm. I think Web would a potent spell here, slowing down the fighters. There's also plenty of summoning spells for distraction. As far as items go, I don't remember there being as wide a variety as the other games but we can be sure they'll be packing a few invulnerability potions and some strong energy potions.

[Slawbug]

I excluded Avernum 6 because the combat system is pretty close to the Remake Avernums

What? Those games have very different PC mechanics. Their combat systems are about as close to Avadon as they are to each other. The reremakes are probably closer to Avadon than to A6, actually.

 

Similarly, if you're going by combat systems, Nethergate and Nethergate: Resurrection are very different, and should both be listed.

 

5: Damage done is by the attacking PC's system, resistance and dodging by the defending PC's system. (I should also point out that attacking PC's damage is by actual damage not the average in game. For example Kill in G5 does 600 damage but most enemies resist as least some of it so it usually does around 400 so if a G5 PC casts kill on a AEFTP character with 50% resistance it will not do 400 - 50% = 200. It will do 600 - 50% = 300 damage.)

This one will require some care, because for a long time now (though we didn't realize it until this year) the games have had a major bug with displaying damage and resistances on Torment (and Hard). This bug does not affect the actual damage dealt, but the damage blocked does NOT display correctly, being consistently underreported, and thus so is the total damage dealt before resistance.

[Thaluikhain]

An Exile3 party will have 6 characters, as opposed to 4 in an Avernum3.

 

Also, Exile has a greater variety of magic spells...I don't know if they max out as more powerful, however.

 

(They also use a more intuitive interface, and don't have to be close to each other to end combat, also only take up one space when not in combat mode, if that helps)

[Dragonboy]

 

What? Those games have very different PC mechanics. Their combat systems are about as close to Avadon as they are to each other. The reremakes are probably closer to Avadon than to A6, actually.

 

Similarly, if you're going by combat systems, Nethergate and Nethergate: Resurrection are very different, and should both be listed.

 

 

This one will require some care, because for a long time now (though we didn't realize it until this year) the games have had a major bug with displaying damage and resistances on Torment (and Hard). This bug does not affect the actual damage dealt, but the damage blocked does NOT display correctly, being consistently underreported, and thus so is the total damage dealt before resistance.

 

 

 

I've played both A6 and AEFTP and in combat they seemed fairly similar. True, the skill system is completed different but the point is how would they differ in a fight and many skills are quite similar between the two and also most spells. I definitely agree there is a distinct difference between the two games, I just didn't think it warranted another option. If anyone else chimes in I'd be glad to add it in. As far as nethergate goes, I've played Resurrection a few times but only played the demo of the original ages ago. Don't remember it that well. Unless it's a radically different system, I think rule 1 suffices. Again, if anyone else chimes in that it is, I would be glad to add it in.

 

Damage is incorrectly displayed? Really? I did not know that. Which games does this apply to? Is the number quantifiable? Geneforge seemed pretty accurate to me, at least the early ones did. As for something of an answer, you could just add up the numbers involved. Jeff's game are pretty simple that way and at least in Geneforge you could add battle magic/spellcraft/and spell cast to get a fairly accurate value of damage involved when you average it out. I use to do it all the time. Or we could just use Normal mode numbers.

[Slawbug]

Both in terms of skill systems and internal combat mechanics, A2CS has more in common with Avadon than with A6. That's just a fact.

 

And, yes, original Nethergate is a radically different combat system. N:R changed what items Celts can equip, changed armor completely, changed weapon damage calculations significantly, and dramatically changed magic power levels... in addition to having very different PC mechanics. To give you an idea of just how different -- in original Nethergate, there is no such thing as character level.

[Goldengirl]

I thought this was going to be a tech support question. PC vs PC violence... yikes. And you want it done with the technical information of the parties? Wowza.

 

Honestly, that just sounds like a bunch of number crunching. Are we supposed to back our assertions up with plot logic?

[Dragonboy]

I'm sorry guys. Somehow I managed to erase the poll when I was editing the first post. I must have forgotten to leave my sanity at the door. Please revote. Sorry.

 

On the bright side, you can now vote for Avernum 6 and the original Nethergate if you want.

 

I thought this was going to be a tech support question. PC vs PC violence... yikes. And you want it done with the technical information of the parties? Wowza.

 

Honestly, that just sounds like a bunch of number crunching. Are we supposed to back our assertions up with plot logic?

 

Heh, I'm not sure what you meant by PC vs PC violence but I'm suddenlt reminded of the time that Jeff got complaints for including a demon summoning spell in exile.

 

It's not supposed to be about absolute number crunching, its more about from what we see when we play the games. But you can bet that there'll be some number crunching, hence rule 5.

 

Not sure what you meant by plot logic,

[Khoth]

The Exile party uses its prep time to surround themselves with a ring of force barriers, and casts quickfire outside the ring.

 

Wins against everyone from a game without Dispel Barrier, ties against the others.

[Slawbug]

Avatar + Mindduel would also be pretty hard to beat, since Exile immunity was actual immunity, and there are no ways to improve Mindduel skill outside of the Exile series.

[Dragonboy]

The Exile party uses its prep time to surround themselves with a ring of force barriers, and casts quickfire outside the ring.

 

Wins against everyone from a game without Dispel Barrier, ties against the others.

 

I laughed at this one. Good thinking. Geneforge is either toast or runs away. Either way a win for Exile. Not sure why it's a tie with everyone else though. It does pretty low damage in Exile. You could stand in it for hours with healing spells. Also, I think area effect spells would work through it.

 

Avatar + Mindduel would also be pretty hard to beat, since Exile immunity was actual immunity, and there are no ways to improve Mindduel skill outside of the Exile series.

 

I forget how Minddduel works actually, but doesn't it work on a spell point basis? Like 15 spell points per spell? Genefoge characters have a lot of spell points so maybe Geneforge could take them down before they die? Also, mindduel would probably work against mental resistance. Does Avatar make your Mindduel 100% effective?

[Slawbug]

Hence Avatar, which provides actual immunity to damage for a few rounds. Mindduel provides SP restoration to power as many Avatars as are necessary; with a Ring of Will, Mindduel can drain quite a lot of SP at once; and with Exile-style Haste and the right equipment/traits, that's 3-4 casts of Mindduel per round. The other PCs might have loads of energy pots, but the Exile character is literally not using up any resources, and can wait for them to run out. If defense against status attacks are needed, a Ring of Major Protection will take care of that.

[Dragonboy]

I like it. The only question I have is how good a Ring of Major Protection works. You think it'll protect against a high-level charm spell from Geneforge or the Avernums? An Agent or Shaper could get three Dominate's off a round and I recall Dominate working pretty well on higher-level creatures that don't have high mental resistance.

 

Aren't rings rated by metals? Gold, silver and bronze? I don't recall a Ring of Major Protection. Or, now that I think about it, rings of protection protecting against effects at all.

[Khoth]

Not sure why it's a tie with everyone else though. It does pretty low damage in Exile. You could stand in it for hours with healing spells. Also, I think area effect spells would work through it.

 

I was counting it as a tie because eventually both sides will die. (I think once quickfire's spread a bit it's not possible to dispel it fast enough to stop it)

[Slawbug]

Hmm, I may be misnaming it or misremembering what it does. However, on the search for that, I discovered that, apparently, Exile grants its characters 100% charm resistance, at, um, level 28 (wayyyy earlier than endgame):

http://spiderwebforu...le/#entry281424

[Dragonboy]

I was counting it as a tie because eventually both sides will die. (I think once quickfire's spread a bit it's not possible to dispel it fast enough to stop it)

 

But you can outrun it, especially when hasted. And while fast, quickfire does at least have some external limit. It only consumes towns and won't spread noticeably beyond, otherwise it would literally consume everything and this is not the case. It'd be a bit of slog to wade through all that quickfire after the battle, but I would think it wouldn't be any worse than walking through a quickfire town in exile itself.

 

Hmm, I may be misnaming it or misremembering what it does. However, on the search for that, I discovered that, apparently, Exile grants its characters 100% charm resistance, at, um, level 28 (wayyyy earlier than endgame):

http://spiderwebforu...le/#entry281424

 

Good grief, that thread was a 10 year old me's dream. I love skill dissections, the very thing you do now with the new games, but I didn't have these forums back when I was a kid.

 

I tip off my hat to you, oh wise Slarty, and hope to never Mindduel with you again.

 

 

I

[Eldibs]

Something else to note is level caps. I'm not sure about the other games, but I know in the Exile series the level cap is at least above seventy, and that's reachable within the game.

[Slawbug]

Actually, the level cap is 50 in Exile, though it is fairly easy to get more skill points on top of that.

[Eldibs]

No, it's not. I pulled up an old saved game just to make sure, one with every character over fifty. Here, have a screenshot from Exile 2 -

 

http://i.imgur.com/J6Hzt2U.png

 

(Apologies for the tiny image. Uploading kills my connection.)

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

I think it was 80 in E1 and E2. Maybe E3, but by BoE it was reduced to 50.

[Slawbug]

No, that's wrong. The cap was always 50 in the whole series. Eldibs, I know you often post about party editing; I'm going to guess here that the file you opened was an edited one. I've played Exile II way too many times to be misremembering the cap. And FWIW, the internet agrees with me -- there aren't many google results for level caps in the series, but the few that there are support a level 50 cap in Exile I as well as Exile III.

[Slawbug]

Also, waitasec. 9001 XP but only level 73? It's 100 XP per level in Exile. That is very clearly outside normal Exile game mechanics.

[Dragonboy]

Yeah, it definitely level 50 for Exile II and III and BoE. Still, I'm pretty sure it's only level 40 for the first Exile but it's been awhile since I played so my memory may be playing tricks on me.

 

Also, someone insert a 'it's over 9000' joke here please.

[Thaluikhain]

Hmmm, IIRC, Exile was the only games to use monsters that were more than one tile, though this would be unlikely to affect a PC showdown unless someone had a hacked Soul Crystal. I can never remember how big monsters work with spells effects, though, can you hit both tiles for a giant with venom or death arrows or put it inside a fireball and they get twice as affected? Don't think so, but not sure.

 

Also, Exile being a 45 degrees to later games...there might be consequences to this, but can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Slawbug]

You could with some spells in Realmz but not Exile, I don't think.

 

Exile I was also a level 50 cap. Seriously, guys. What Exile II did increase were the caps on HP and SP.

[Dragonboy]

I must be going senile. I distinctly recall targeting Dark Wyrm's with four Death arrows and doing quadruple the damage in Exile III. I also distinctly recall there being a 40 level cap in Exile 1. Can someone please confirm in-game these two things? I too young to go senile!!! (Goes off flailing his hand around and crying.)

 

 

 

 

(Okay, so it's been like seven years since I played.)

[eaintree]

I would love to see a fanfic, though I'm probably not gonna write it myself, unless someone wanted to collaborate.

[Dragonboy]

If you keep the chapters short, I wouldn't mind writing a chapter or two.

[nikki.]

FWIW, I also remember targeting a 2-space monster with multiple arrows of a spell.

 

FWFWIWIW, it's been 10 years since I last played an Exile game.

[Eldibs]

No, that's wrong. The cap was always 50 in the whole series. Eldibs, I know you often post about party editing; I'm going to guess here that the file you opened was an edited one. I've played Exile II way too many times to be misremembering the cap. And FWIW, the internet agrees with me -- there aren't many google results for level caps in the series, but the few that there are support a level 50 cap in Exile I as well as Exile III.

 

My editing shenanigans were with items, not stats, and all my characters had different levels (ranging from 58-73). I won't discount the possibility however, since that file does have edited items and I may have mistyped an address when coding my old editor.

 

Also, waitasec. 9001 XP but only level 73? It's 100 XP per level in Exile. That is very clearly outside normal Exile game mechanics.

 

Traits affected how much XP you needed to gain a level. The baseline is 100XP, adjusted up or down based on what advantages and disadvantages you took.

[Slawbug]

Ah, that's true. Level cap's still 50.

[Eldibs]

I just did some quick testing, and if there is a level cap, it's not a hard level cap. I gave myself enough experience to hit level 51 with a baseline character (4999XP, plus the experience from killing a single enemy to make the game give out the level gains), which the game was happy to allow. Were there a hard-coded cap, it would have stopped at level 50 without additional editing. However, afterwards it stopped awarding experience for killing the low-level enemies I tested on, which would indicate a possible soft cap (eventually you'd be so high-level that all the enemies/quests/nodes/etc.. would just stop giving out experience), though without doing a lot more testing than I want to do I can't confirm that.

 

FWIW, I learned something useful from all this, which was how to set up a virtual instance of Windows XP inside Windows 7, which was necessary to run the game.

[Dragonboy]

Curse you Eaintree! Now you got it in my head and I can't stop thinking about it!

 

I just had to write a chapter. In fact, now I got the first three bouncing in my head! I don't think I can take this to the end all by myself, but maybe I can. Or maybe some other spiderwebber will pick up the slack. Either way, here's the first Chapter of the Tournament of Heroes:

 

____________________

Chapter 1: Farewells

 

“I’ll be missing you guys,” Ardras said as he looked around at his party members as they stood at the crossroads. Beautiful Valorium lay all around them with Blackcrag Fortress looming above.

“Don’t be a sssstranger,” Sss-Sesh said, giving the human a clap on the shoulder.

“Be sure to come visit me and my brother sometime in Gale,” Lorlei said.

“I will, as long as you keep that smile,” Ardras laughed.

“You flatterer,” Lorlei said, waving him off with a smile.

“I just want to say thanks, we couldn’t have it without you Leader,” Adras said, addressing Sss-Sesh.

“Oh, finally, after all thisss time, now you call me Leader?” Sss-Sesh hissed in laughter.

“Give him brreak,” Frrrrr said as he fumbled with his hammer. “It’s harrd for humans to learrn who arre their betterrs.

“You’re absolutely right Frrrrr,” Fredrick said with a laugh. “Almost as bad as Nephilim.”

“Hrrrmm,” Frrrrr grunted with a small smile.

“I”ll hope to see you all around sometime,” Adras said. “Even you Sss-Anees.”

“Unlikley Human,” Sss-Anees said the always present disdain apparent. “Recklessss as you are, we will doubtlesssly never meet again.”

“Heh, right back at you Slith,” Adras said.

Suddenly, there was a bang and a cloud of smoke engulfed the group. Coughing, the group stared at the creature that had suddenly appeared in their midst. The dust settled a little and they all realized together what the creature was.

“An imp?!” Adras exclaimed as he pointed pointed at the diminutive red creature.

“Congratulations!” the imp giggled. “You’ve been privileged to be selected to join the Tournament of Heroes!”

“Tournament of Heroesss?” Sss-Sesh asked with suspicion.

“Yes, the most exclusive tournament of all!” the imp giggled. “You’ll fight to see who are the greatest Heroes of them all!”

“The greatest Heroes?” Fredrick asked skeptically as the imp handed a bright yellow scroll to Adras.

“Yes, Heroes from all places and time shall come together to see who is the greatest of them all!” the imp said before breaking out in giggles.

“Sounds like a farce,” Fredrick said disdainfully.

“Agreed,” Lorlei his sister nodded.

“Scamper off you imp!” Adras shouted.

“You must join the tournament!” the imp said with another giggle.

“We’re not joining your tournament imp and you best be gone before I sssplit you with my halberd!” Sss-Sesh hissed. “Begone with-”

“NOOO! Don’t open that!!!” Fredrick shouted as Frrrrr began to open the bright yellow scroll that the imp had given to Adras.

He was too late, as Frrrrr rolled open the entire scroll before he could finish. The scroll glowed a bright purple and suddenly there was a crackle sound in the area.

“Not again Frrrrr!!!” Sss-Sesh roared! “I warned yo-” and that was as far as he got before the six of them suddenly felt like they were being split into a million pieces. It lasted forever or for only a moment. It was impossible to tell. All they knew was that suddenly they were collapsed on the ground staring up at the sky. A sky that seemed different somehow.

“Dammit Frrrrr,” Adras muttered. “Where are we?” he asked as he and the party got up.

“Nowhere good,” Sss-Sesh hissed.

A man, dressed in a blue cloak stood over them as they got up. The cloak hid his face except for his eyes which seemed to glow a unnatural red. As his side stood a giant, no a half-giant except it kind-of looked like a rock, and a odd squid-like creature that hovered above the ground. The man stared at them as they disentangled themselves to get up. He grunted disapprovingly and turned away, his companion creatures trailing behind him.

They watched him go silently for a moment before Frrrrr turned to the others and asked, “Wherre the hell arre we?”

__________________

 

 

Note: Positive feedback is welcome, negative is not. If someone could help me out with the accent of the characters that would be great. As is, I went with three S's for every S with the Sliths and a extra R for every r with the Nephil and called it a day. Yes yes, I'm racist. I know.

[Dragonboy]

BTW, I'm not going to stick totally to the rules I posted on the top of this thread in this Fan-Fic. I will be a bit flexible with the narrative so don't take this story as complete digest of the various factors of each Party vs other Partys.

 

 

I need 4 Gaulish names for four blue painted warriors in the next Chapter if anyone wants to input something, or any names period. They just can't be Jack, Sam, Joe, John or anything like those.

 

Also, a few moments in "How to fake a Gaulish accent 101' would probably help the flavor of the next Chapter.

[Slawbug]

I just did some quick testing, and if there is a level cap, it's not a hard level cap. I gave myself enough experience to hit level 51 with a baseline character (4999XP, plus the experience from killing a single enemy to make the game give out the level gains), which the game was happy to allow. Were there a hard-coded cap, it would have stopped at level 50 without additional editing. However, afterwards it stopped awarding experience for killing the low-level enemies I tested on, which would indicate a possible soft cap (eventually you'd be so high-level that all the enemies/quests/nodes/etc.. would just stop giving out experience), though without doing a lot more testing than I want to do I can't confirm that.

The Exile series relied extensively on code that was only written to handle situations the game would actually generate. Thus it's not a surprise that using a hex editor to give yourself more experience than the game will ever actually give you, will break the system. That's what happens when you insert alien values into the game.

 

The game has a level cap of 50. You can't get past that cap without cheating. Period. This is not that complicated.

[Eldibs]

Either the game checks to make sure your level stops at 50 or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways. If it's the former, that's a hard cap. If it's the latter, but stops you from progessing past 50 naturally (by reducing XP gains as you gain levels), that's a soft cap. It's very easy to check for a hard cap. If there were one, cheating to put your level past 50 (or giving yourself enough XP to do so) would cause the game to drop your level back down to 50. Such a hard cap is easily demonstrated by your food and gold, which, if they go over the cap of 25,000, the game drops them back down to the cap. Since the game doesn't do this to your characters' levels (in fact, the game shows a level up message for all the levels you spontaneously gain, indicating it's going through its normal level-up process), it absolutely does not have a hard cap of 50. Period. Now, whether it has a soft cap of level 50 is still in question, but also testable. Take a level 50 character to the best XP sources in the game and see if they can still gain a level from them.

 

You're going merely by what your memory is telling you. Well, my memory is telling me that I did not manually edit my XP/levels on my old save (there's no point, everything can be gained via skill points), and that the editor bundled with the game utterly lacks the ability to edit your XP/levels. Until you have actual evidence, you're merely arguing by assertion with your word against mine.

[Slawbug]

With all due respect, your memory of what you did with the saves you hex edited years ago does not really compete with the fact that google produces some historical evidence of people citing a level 50 cap, and no evidence of anyone ever talking about levels beyond 50.

 

There is zero evidence of anyone ever passing level 50 without editing. Because you can't do it. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share it.

 

(In your test, BTW, the obvious flaw is that you were still at level 1 when you killed that one enemy to get experience from it, even if your experience total was higher. It doesn't quite fulfill the conditions above, but I bet that even setting your experience to 4850 and going from there would prove the existence of the cap just fine.)

[Dragonboy]

I am absolutely positive there's no way to get past level 50 in any Exile game, period. I banged against that cap enough times. It's only whether Exile I it was 40 or 50 my memory gets a little fuzzy. I vaguely recall being annoyed that the cap was lower in Exile I.

 

Does no one here have a endgame save file? Could someone upload some endgame stat pics? Especially for Exile I.

[Dragonboy]

_______________________

Chapter 2: Warriors in Blue.

 

“Are you sure were in the right place?” Antaros repeated.

“I”m positive! We were told to walk through the two stones and we walked through to the two stones!” Gaesorix snapped.

“Well this doesn’t like the Valley of the Dead to me!” Gaesorix snapped back.

“How would you know!”

“Do you see any dead men around here!”

“Well there’s about to be one!” Gaesorix roared.

“There’s no aura of death in this place,” Obalda said in her soft-sung voice. “This is not the place where our ancestors live on.”

“Great, but where are we then?!” Antaros demanded.

“I do not know, but the spirits know,” Obalda said.

“I thought you said we weren’t in Annwn.”

Obalda spoke serenely. “The spirits surround us at all times, watching, listening, guiding.”

“... You know what, forget it,” Antaros said waving her off. “Viridovix, do you have any idea where we are?”

Viridovix, who was kneeling in the grass examining the herbage on the ground, looked up and said, “I’m sorry my friends, the only thing I know is they we are no longer anywhere that I recognize.”

“Fantastic. Druids, bloodly fantastic things they are,” Antaros snarled.

“I’m going to rip Chief Cartmunus to peices!” Gaesorix spat.

“How dare you speak that way about our Chief!” Antaros snarled.

“Antaros, he sent us into Annwn willingly! The tribe is close to being driven away by the Romans and he’s sending us to fetch random things! He’s going crazy.”

“Don’t you dare speak that way about our Chief!” Antaros snarled threateningly.

“Others approach,” Obalda said softly

Not paying attention Gaesorix snarled back, “I’ll say what I want!”

“Others?” Antaros said. “Who?”

“I do not know, but they come this way through the thicket over there,” she said as she pointed into the thickest part of the forest around them.

Antaros silenced the other three with a signal and they all gathered behind the trees. It was faint, but unmistakable. A few people were walking toward them and they were getting closer and closer. Soon they began to hear tidbits of conversation.

“I still say we go after Hawthorne,” a female voice said.

“Are you kidding, we got to the surface,” a light male voice laughed. “We made it. We did the impossible. You want to go throw your life away now?!”

“If we don’t get him, he’ll get us,” another male’s voice said. “Besides, that bastard is still throwing innocent people down there.”

“A hero of justice are you?” the first male said.

“This isn’t about justice,” the woman said. “This is about revenge.”

“Pffft, you and Erika. Well, that’s what she wanted too and look where we are now?”

Gaesorix snarled as the people speaking came into their view. There were four of them. One man and one woman were armored in polished and gleaming armor and behind them were another man and woman were wearing some odd Druidic robes.

“Romans! I knew I heard the sound of them clattering around,” Gaesorix spat.

“What are they doing here?!” Antaros growled just as angrily.

“They defile our lands and they sent us here!” Gaesorix said through gnashed teeth. He jumped suddenly out from behind his tree. “Romans! Feel the might of the warriors of Britannia!” He cried as he hurled a javelin with all his strength.

“What the!” The leading male shouted as the javelin headed right toward him.

Mere feet before it struck into his thigh it suddenly began to glow and then stopped in mid-air.

“Now now,” a giant red being that looked like a demon, no, that must be a demon, said with a chuckle as he can strolling out from wherever he was hiding. “Don’t be so hasty to start before things begin.”

_________________________________

[Eldibs]

Interesting, because the only historical evidence I found via Google was an old forum thread of a few people citing a level cap. One of them was you. It also had a post of me saying that I had not edited my XP/levels. I don't have to go by memory.

 

http://pied-piper.ermarian.net/topic/1/3117

[Slawbug]

Okay, so what you're saying is that in 2006 we had the same conversation, with everyone else saying the cap is at 50, and you bringing up what may even have been the same edited save file to suggest otherwise. Also, that thread actually has YOU saying that the highest you made it without cheating was level 50!

 

I'm sorry you are at odds with the overwhelming consensus here. Produce evidence that the consensus is wrong, or let's all just move on.

 

Dragonboy -- someone in the thread Eldibs linked comments that the level cap in A1 is 40. I'm less familiar with A1, so I can't say if that's true or not, but if true that could explain why you're unsure about the 40/50 question for E1.

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

also there was a gold cap of 25,000 for cheating. the actual gold cap was 30,000 which was the only way to magically upgrade weapons which cost 30,000.

I don't recall what the effect was, but it added + to the stats.

[Kennedy]

Did Avernum 3 have a level cap? From what I remember you could use a shop duplication trick to get an unlimited amount of items that can be turned in for XP, (Also good for knowledge brew ingredients.)

[Randomizer]

All the games have a level cap. It's usually increased between games in a series except for Avadon where they are all 30.

[Lilith]

All the games have a level cap. It's usually increased between games in a series except for Avadon where they are all 30.

 

Blades of Avernum doesn't have a level cap, although the game starts to exhibit glitches at extremely high stat values (above 100).

[Slawbug]

Other threads suggest that A3 shares BoA's lack of level cap, which would make sense, since their engines are so similar.

 

Also -- I'm not sure that statement about usually increasing within a series is actually true. Sometimes, certainly.

[Dragonboy]

_________________________

Chapter 3: Rules, Rules, Rules.

 

“Settled now?”

Sss-Sesh hissed at the giggling imp that had brought to this place. “No thanksss to you.”

“Where are we?” Lorlei asked, looked around frightened.

“Everywhere!” The imp shouted and broke out in a fit of giggles.

“Very informative,” Fredrick said sourly.

Sss-Anees scowled, “Tell usss where we are or I’ll banisssh you to where you come from.”

“You’re in the Tournament of Heroes,” a deep voice said behind them.

The Party turned as one. It was a demon, a full-fledged demon not like the little imp that had brought them here. It hadn’t been there a moment ago. It was smiling smugly.

“And where is that?” Adras asked for them again.

“An interdimensional space, perfectly suited for a grand tournament as this,” the demon said, the smell of sulfur coming strongly from his breath.

“And what is this Tournament exactly?” Fredrick asked.

“It is a competition for the greatest heroes of space and time, to see who is the greatest group of heroes of them all. We bring together only the finest, you should be honored to be in it.”

“Who’s we?” Fredrick drilled the demon. “Who is this really for?”

The demon laughed. “This competition is watched by the countless denizens of the dimensions, we make this tournament for their entertainment.”

“Entertainment!?” Sss-Anees hissed with disdainful anger.

The demon laughed again. “Do you know how much gold and treasure is use on bets for this tournament? You could never see that much in a thousand of your lifetimes!”

“Sss-Anees is noonesss entertainment!”

The demon just grinned. “What do you care mortal? So what if countless beings watch you? What does that matter when you have a chance of receiving the ultimate reward?!”

“Ultimate rreward?” Frrrrr asked curiously.

“What’sss this reward you speak of?” Sss-Sesh asked suspiciously.

“Now now, we can’t reveal that so soon,” the demon said with a sly grin. “First you must prove yourself by passing the first round.”

“The first round?” Lorlei asked.

“Of course. This is no mere brawl. You will have to fight in several rounds before you can achieve victory. And there are rules to be followed of course.”

“Rulesss?” Sss-Sesh asked.

“Yes, there are rules. Scattered around this area are different teams. For the first round you must defeat two different teams in order to advance.”

“How many teams are there?” Adras asked.

“That’s for me to know and you to find out,” the demon said smugly. “You will have one hour of preparation, then the game will begin. You will have twenty four hours to complete your task. This place is three miles in diameter so you will have to be quick. The end of the boundary is half-a-mile that way,” the demon pointed in a direction. “There is no going past there, though you may try if you wish,” he said with another smug grin.

“Sounds easy,” Frrrrr growled.

“Also, if you die you will be resurrected only eight hours later.”

“Eight hours!” Adras cried.

“Well, that’s your fault for being weak and dying,” the demon said without pity.

“We have our own healersss that can take care of that,” Sss-Sesh said. “There’s no rule about thossse, are there?”

“All the power to you my friends, although if you all die you will indeed be needing our services,” the demon grinned. “Now, that’s all I’m required to tell you so I’ll be off. Prepare yourself, for in one hour the fun begins!”

“We’ll be ready alright,” Sss-Sesh hissed as the grinning demon along with the imp that had brought them there simply disappeared without a sound. “We’ll be ready.”

____________________

 

 

 

Comments and feedback welcome.

 

Next Chapter we'll get to see Avadon. I'm going with Avadon 1 which I don't even remember well because I never beat Avadon 2. (Ducks under the barrage of rocks and rotten tomatoes.)

[Dragonboy]

Chapter 4: We had him!

 

“We had him!” Korth cried to the open air. “Right there, on the floor!”

“Indeed, it happened at a most inopportune time,” Sevilin nodded solemnly.

“Right there! Just one more second was all I needed!”

Jenell shook her head, “There’s no use in crying over spilt milk.”

“Indeed. Perhaps it was for the best,” Sevilin said.

Kroth glared at him. “Don’t you get it?! We had Redbeard on his knees. We could’ve toppled him right then and there off his throne. We could’ve been heroes!” He turned away and spoke in a whisper, “I could’ve been Redbeard.”

“What?” Sevilin asked as he bent his ear closer.

“Nothing,” Kroth spoke hurriedly.

“I don’t know what you're complaining about Kroth, this is a grand chance! An interdimensional tournament! A place to test our talents and imagine what the prize will be for winning! Surely something of great magical power!” Nathalie breathed excitedly.

“Kroth is not interested in mere power silly girl, he lives for a much more noble purpose,” Jenell said disapprovingly.

“Did you call me a silly girl?” Nathalie asked scathingly.

“I don’t know, was that what you ears heard silly girl?” Jenell shot back.

“This silly girl got enough power to turn you to cinders so you better watch your tongue,” Nathalie snapped with a puffed chest.

“Mere words,” Jenell said with a dismissal turn of her head.

“You don’t like me, do you?” Nathalie snapped coldly.

“No one likes you Nathalie,” Korth said tiredly, suddenly feeling quiet tired.

Before Nathalie could reply indignantly, Kroth turned to Shima. “What’s up Shima?”

Shima, who had been looking off at the distance mountains, took a moment to respond. “Nothing,” he said as he cast one last glance at the mountains before turning to Kroth.

“Then let’s set up camp here. That fight with Redbeard exhausted whatever strength I had and I’m sure it’s the same with the rest of us,” Kroth said as he glanced around. He received a series of nods from everyone. “So let’s set up camp now. We have twenty four hours so no need to rush.”

His four companions nodded again and the five set about making camp. A long distance away, hidden in the shadows of the clefts of the mountains four furry creatures stood observing them intently.

 

 

Blah, writing this chapter was not fun. I don't remember the game well enough to do Jeff's characters justice. Oh well. I sincerely apologize to all Avadon fans for wrecking their favorite characters now and in the future.

[Dragonboy]

Chapter 5: I saw a Demon I did!

 

“Demons!” Rufus cried out, as he clung to his spear fearfully. “The celts have sent us to the land of Demons!”

“What do we do?!” Lucious stammered.

“This must be the valley of death we were told about. We need to find the crown,” Marius, the most levelheaded of the four said. “After the fiasco with the eye and the skull we really need this crown, whatever it is.”

“That wasn’t our fault,” Lucious said. “We weren’t the ones who had them stolen from.”

“Yeah but Vibius is going to blow his stack if another thing slips out of our hands.”

“It wasn’t our fault!” Lucious repeated. “I say the this time we keep the damn thing instead of handing it off.”

The other three nodded their heads.

“Regardless of that, we’ve better get a move on and get it first,” Maximus said. “I don’t get this ‘Tournament’ thing but I’m sure those damn Celts on not far behind.”

“It’s probably some Celt afterlife thing, eternal battle thing,” Lucious said, stroking his chin.

“That’s bloody wonderful. Are we going to have to fight through this tournament to get the crown, or what?”

“We’re proud Romans soldiers!” Marius said loudly as he banged his breastplate in pride, “We’re not scared of barbaric warriors are we?!”

“AYE!” the rest of them resounded as they banged their own breastplates with their right hands.

“Let’s move out!”

[Dragonboy]

Chapter 6: Back in Avernum?

“Did you just hear anything?”

“Thisss is ssstupid, how are we sssupposssed to fight in the dark?”

“Who had the bright idea to have a tournament in pitch black tunnels? This is ridiculous! This place is worse than Avernum!”

“Agrreed. At least therre therre was glowing li-li-liten?”

“You mean lichen.”

“Yeah, that stuff.”

“Ssspeaking of light, couldn’t you raissse your handsss a little higher Cordelia?”

“Hey! This is my fourth light spell! My arms are exhausted! Let’s see you cast a light spell, clod for a lizard!”

“Relax, therre may be enemies nearr by.”

“Speaking of which, does anyone hearr something?”

“Besides for you panicking every four seconds? No.”

“Are you surre you don’t hear anything?”

“NO!!!”

 

 

 

 

Whew, that does it for introductions! Time to turn up the burner!

 

 

 

I make no apologies for my sense of humor.

[Dragonboy]

Chapter 7: Whoah, that’s a lot of dots.

 

“Are you ready?” Sss-Sesh asked Fredrick.

“Just a moment,” Fredrick replied as he stretched his blank scroll as flat as he could on the ground. “There,” he said and lifted up a sapphire above the scroll. “Magic Map!”

The blue sapphire squirmmed in his hand for a moment. It turned into a smooth but slow moving liquid and splashed onto the blank scroll. As the blue liquid sloshed outward to the edges of the paper it revealed a detailed map in its wake. It took but a few moments for the liquid sapphire to completely cover the scroll before draining off onto the ground.

“Here it is, Sss-Sesh,” Fredrick said as he stood up and handed it over to Sss-Sesh.

“Thanksss,” Sss-Sesh said as he and all the rest crowded around to stare at the map.

“It looks like the Demon wasn’t lying,” Adras said as he pointed at the map and then around them. “We’re about a half mile from the edge.”

“And it is about trree miles wide in total,” Frrrrr said.

“Yesss, but thisss place looksss very ssstrange.”

Lorlei nodded. “Yeah, it looks perfectly round.”

‘Forget that, jussst look at thisss,” Sss-Sesh said as he pointed at the mountains at the top of the map. “Mountainsss? Thisss place isss only three milesss big, how could there be mountainsss that big here?” He waved at hand at the distant but tall mountains clearly visible to the north. “Alssso,” he said as he redirected their attention back to the map, “There’sss a foressst to the wessst, marsssh to the eassst, a river to the north that sssplit off in all directionsss, and I’m pretty sssure that’s a lava field there,” he pointed at the northern western corner of the map which indeed showed an area of lava.

“What’s your point?” Adras asked.

“Thisss place sssussspiciousssly containsss every type of terrain in sssuch a sssmall area,” Sss-Sesh spoke, fumbling with the word ‘suspiciously’.

“What’s the big deal,” Fredrick asked. “They obviously set this place up that way to make the Tournament more exciting.”

“What I want to know isss what’sss beyond the circle?” Sss-Anees broke in.

“Huh?” Adras asked.

“What’sss beyond the circle?” Sss-Anees said as she pointed outside to the blackness outside the circle of the map.

They all stared at the blackness for a moment.

“Either my spell was blocked or nothing,” Fredrick finally said.

“Then where are we?” Sss-Anees asked.

“Does it matter? We just have to win this tournament.”

Sss-Sesh stared at the map for a moment longer before turning to Lorlei. “Lorlei, if you would?”

he asked as he proffered the map to her.

“Sure,” Lorlei replied as she took the map. “Detect Life!” she cried. “There,” she said proudly and showed off the map to everyone else.

There a was a long moment of silence as everyone stared at the map.

“Whoah, that’s a lot dots,” Adras said. “There at least a hundred of them.”

“How many teams arre we going to have to fight then?” Frrrrr asked.

“We only have to beat two of them,” Sss-Sesh pointed out. “With this many groups, we can take our time wait for the best opportunity.”

“Then which one should we go afterr?” Frrrrr asked.

“Him,” Sss-Sesh said as he pointed at a few glowing dots that were drawing closer to their own six dots. “They mussst be that cloaked guy we sssaw when we arrived here and his pet monssstersss. He’s the closssessst and he’sss basssically a party of one with two monsssters for aid. We outnumber him badly and he’sss even heading right for usss. A perfect target.”

“I see four dots,” Sss-Anees said.

Sss-Sesh looked closer at the map. “You’re right. Did he have a third monster hanging?”

“I didn’t see one,” Fredrick said.

“Maybe it’s one of his allies?” Frrrrr postulated.

“Either way, we outnumber him.”

“I sensed something very unnatural with that man,” Lorlei said shaking her head. “I’m a little scared.”

“True,” Sss-Anees nodded. “He felt... inhuman. He may not be a human at all.”

“We’ll just have to be on guard then,” Sss-Anees said. He took the map and folded it up. He turned to the other five and gave them all a stiff nod. “I hope you’re all ready Exiles. Let’sss go show him what Exile isss made of.”

 

 

 

 

Whooo hooo! First battle coming right up! It'll be Exile vs Geneforge! Step right up and place your bets! It'll just have to wait to the chapter after the next chapter though. I like to use chapter switching to indicate some undefined time passing. Instead, next chapter we'll turn over to.... Avernum probably.