Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • How to eat sound

      Logging in   05/10/2017

      If you had an account and can't log in as of 5/9/17, this may be because of a change in logins with new forum software. You can log in using your publicly displayed name (not your username) or your email address and the password you used before.   If you have problems with this, please ask any of the mods or admins. 
Spidweb

Avadon 3: The Warborn, Changes and Discussion

Recommended Posts

Spidweb   

I have been silently working on Avadon 3: The Warborn for a few months now. I'm old and slow, so the work is not brisk. Still, I am optimistic about a mid-2016 release of the final game in the trilogy.

 

I think Avadon 2: The Corruption was a worthy game in many ways. However, in some ways, it was underbaked. Some flaws in the engine should have been addressed, but weren't. I am making major improvements for the final game in the trilogy.

 

I'm still working things out, so I am posting this to let people know how things are going and to welcome random feedback.

 

Here are some of the current changes/ares of debate:

 

* Sounds and Spell Effects

 

Will all get a massive overhaul.

 

* Quick Use and Ability Preset Buttons

 

I am strongly considering changing to 3 Quick Use buttons and 5 Ability Preset buttons. Feedback welcome.

 

* Difficulty

 

My games have long dealt with difficulty by making foes have more health and do more damage. I want to handle this in a smarter way.

 

I am strongly considering having area of effect spells do friendly fire damage on Hard and Torment level. I want combat positioning in my games to make a difference, and this will be a key part of that. I will also make the more nasty foe abilities (like charm and fear) be more common on higher difficulties.

 

Feedback welcome.

 

* Skill Tree

 

Will be completely redone. There will be three separate trees instead of three inter-connected trees, and skill prerequisites will be massively cut back. This will allow a lot more freedom in character builds and less spending skill points on things you don't want.

 

I am also massively tweaking abilities for all classes and adding new abilities. If a particular ability has proved to be utterly useless or way overpowered, I'd like to know.

 

* Tinkermage Balance

 

I don't usually care too much about balancing character classes against each other. This isn't a PVP game. If shamans are tougher than shadowwalkers, or whatever, that isn't a big deal.

 

However, it is a problem when one class is so much tougher than the others that it makes it impossible to balance the game. In this spirit, tinkermages will be getting a mild nerfing.

 

* Right-Clicking

 

I will be implementing better right-click functionality and making it work on Macs too.

 

I won't be posting much in this thread, because that's how I am, but I will be sure to read everything in it as long as it is stickied.

 

- Jeff Vogel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AoE friendly fire existed in your older games, so bringing it back is a step backwards. Targeting Cloud of Blades on a friendly summons since we couldn't target invisible foes. It does mean no longer using it all the time to clear out monsters surrounding a party member.

 

Mental attacks like charm and fear seem deadly enough in current games especially when they almost always work when used by boss monsters against characters with maximum resistance. Pretty much you always need one character to hang back out of range to cure it.

 

Tinkermages were way overpowered in the last game. You could complete everything up to the last Miranda fight without any other Hand helping you. Maybe make it take longer to get the top tier turret or have it less effective if you get it early in the game. You need more levels with a turret type to achieve maximum damage and to hit instead of just maximizing turret craft.

 

We want more levels than 30. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilith   

* Tinkermage Balance

 

I don't usually care too much about balancing character classes against each other. This isn't a PVP game. If shamans are tougher than shadowwalkers, or whatever, that isn't a big deal.

 

However, it is a problem when one class is so much tougher than the others that it makes it impossible to balance the game. In this spirit, tinkermages will be getting a mild nerfing.

 

If you do end up implementing AoE friendly fire, that'd already be a huge balancing factor for Tinkermages, considering that the strongest Tinkermage turrets right now are the ones that spray AoEs uncontrollably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spidweb   

I don't know yet how I will implement AE attacks from ally mobs. I do know that having your characters killed by a careless turret will never happen. That would be kind of insane.

 

- Jeff Vogel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TKFlash   

Hi Spiderweb,

Please consider revising the Cleave mechanics to spice up and speed up routine encounters. For example, I think the Blademaster should be able to attribute skill points to improve their Cleave chance over the current max of 30%. Perhaps low-ranked enemies could have a higher chance of being hit by Cleave? You mentioned how you would like to increase the importance of combat positioning and I think this could be one way to achieve that.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xenocide   

Please balance the game so that the level cap is not hit anywhere near as quick as it was in last game.I have never hit a cap in an RPG as early as in Avadon 2, hitting the cap with at least a full 1/3 of the game left is ridiculous. Loved the game up to that point but that really brought it down for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am strongly considering having area of effect spells do friendly fire damage on Hard and Torment level. I want combat positioning in my games to make a difference, and this will be a key part of that. I will also make the more nasty foe abilities (like charm and fear) be more common on higher difficulties.

I personally prefer having direct damage AoE spells (eg, fireball or icy rain) do friendly fire damage, though with something like a Mass Slow spell it would make more sense to only affect enemies. (You might not consider such spells to be AoE, though.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Friendly Fire, a tinkermage nerf & more flexibility in skill trees sound great. The additional enemy mental effects sound aggravating, but I rarely play on anything past 'Normal' so take that with a grain of salt :)

 

If we have to keep the re-training thing, can there be a real, permanent cost associated with it? Maybe you only get 90% of your skill points back? Having the ability to infinitely rebuild your character has always felt cheap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jerakeen   

If we have to keep the re-training thing, can there be a real, permanent cost associated with it? Maybe you only get 90% of your skill points back? Having the ability to infinitely rebuild your character has always felt cheap.

Well, you don't have to do it.

 

Being penalized for not knowing in advance which skills will serve you best, especially when Spiderweb game mechanics tend to be opaque (and tooltips tend to be inaccurate), seems worse than cheap. Especially when you have such a limited number of skill points to work with - it's not as if you can just grind for a few more levels to fix your mistakes. Having the option to respec is better than being forced to choose between trying to limp through with hobbled characters or starting over, because neither of those two options is actually much fun for most people. And if you are not having fun, why would you ever buy another SW game?

 

Edit: That said, I could see imposing an XP penalty for retraining. It would set the character back a bit without permanently disadvantaging them.

Edited by Jerakeen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilith   

I don't really think a mechanical penalty for retraining is a great way to go; the retrainer exists in the game in the first place to make the game easier and more accessible, after all. For people who do want to challenge themselves not to use it, I guess you could always include a medal/achievement for going through the game without ever retraining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kelandon   

For people who do want to challenge themselves not to use it, I guess you could always include a medal/achievement for going through the game without ever retraining.

I like this idea.

 

Eliminating the level cap and, if you must, replacing it with some other way to maintain endgame balance has to be the most common suggestion I've heard throughout the Avadon series, and I full-throatedly endorse it. It was sort of fun to be able to hit the endgame a bit overpowered in earlier Spidweb games — maybe on Normal you could continue to scale up normally but there could be some kind of slowing of level gains at high levels on Hard and Torment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Triumph   

I'd love to be able to travel between any zone via a unified world map (a la Geneforge), rather than always having to pass throug the hub of Avadon to get anywhere. I know I'm using the portals in Avadon, but having to mechanically do all that walking is generally boring and doesn't serve much purpose (at least that I can tell).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

holy [censored], i just started avadon 2 weeks ago, and loved it! it's alot more linear than avernum eftp and cs, but on another way, it's more "free" or should i say, structured, and character based, than avernum's 'silent' characters. havent played 2 yet, but i welcome this good news. good luck to you mr vogel, and don't overexert yourself ;)

 

from a new fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could do what Basilisk Games did for Eschalon 3 where at start up you could pick from a menu of difficulty options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing this, Jeff! It is all great to hear.

 

* Difficulty

 

I am strongly considering having area of effect spells do friendly fire damage on Hard and Torment level. I want combat positioning in my games to make a difference, and this will be a key part of that. I will also make the more nasty foe abilities (like charm and fear) be more common on higher difficulties.

This is the best change I have heard you talk about in a very long time. SO much support for this!

 

* Skill Tree

 

I am also massively tweaking abilities for all classes and adding new abilities. If a particular ability has proved to be utterly useless or way overpowered, I'd like to know.

This is also an excellent change. Although I think you did a very good job with this overall in Avadon, there are a few abilities that have always stuck out as useless.

 

In some cases, this isn't because of the ability definitions, which are well balanced, but are because of the way damage formulas are handled. Because Avadon hardcodes Strength for physical melee attacks, and Dexterity for physical ranged attacks, and Intelligence for magical attacks, you get problems. For example, Shadowwalkers have skill trees that strongly encourage them to specialize in Dexterity or Strength (or both, even though that ends up being less effective). However, they had a few abilities that lob acid or magical damage, Searing Pot and Lightning Pot. Because it would be counterproductive to invest in Intelligence just for those abilities, they are basically always going to be useless.

 

A similar issue originally existed with the Shaman's two Earthquake skills, but you fixed that one by changing them from physical damage to magical damage.

 

This also means that attacks where you leap forward to strike an enemy in melee depend on Dexterity and not Strength. That does not seem intended based on the way the attacks are depicted. Similarly, Blade Sweep uses Dexterity and not Strength, and doesn't use the equipped blade, despite the skill name.

 

Most of the high-level single-target physical attacks were underwhelming, including Berserker Slash and Shattering Blow.

 

One other thing to point out: you made an exception to the formulas for scarab-based abilities. Scarab based abilities choose whether to use Intelligence or not based on the PC's class, not based on the damage type. The result was that Shadowwalkers could use a cone of fire ability (or whatever) with damage dice and to-hit based on their Dexterity, and thus be an order of magnitude better than their Pot skills. This also contributed to Dexterity being overpowered (yes, even in Avadon 2). I would suggest that you make scarab abilities follow the same rules as skill tree abilities for determining which stat contributes to damage dice. That in itself would go a long way towards balancing the classes -- as the scarabs allow Tinkermages and Shadowwalkers close to the nuking capabilities as a Sorceress has, while receiving all the benefits of Dexterity and of their own class.

 

Finally, Call of the Frenzy is a bit too strong -- it is really the one skill that comes to close to the power level of Tinkermages. I know it is at the top of its tree, but it is still truly an overpowering ability that single-handedly makes Blademasters better than anything else (save turrets). The fact that it is so much stronger than Haste is particularly insulting to Sorcerors.

 

* Tinkermage Balance

 

However, it is a problem when one class is so much tougher than the others that it makes it impossible to balance the game. In this spirit, tinkermages will be getting a mild nerfing.

I experimented with this a lot in my Avadon 2 mod. I ultimately decided that the best way to rein in Tinkermages, while keeping them fun to play, was to greatly reduce the range that their turrets function at, and to give them abilities that allow them to pull enemies closer to their turrets. I note that this fits perfectly with your focus on making combat positioning matter more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also could you implement the ability to write my own journal? i haven't played avadon 2, but sure you cannot in avernum, eft. cs and avadon 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spidweb   

One thing I forgot to mention: I will be implementing a way to see the exact path a character will take in combat before you move.

 

Any thoughts about the numbers of Quick Use version Action shortcut button slots?

 

- Jeff Vogel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I forgot to mention: I will be implementing a way to see the exact path a character will take in combat before you move.

- Jeff Vogel

There seems to be a bug in the path algorithm that you use in Avadon 2 for a teleport scarab or ability to move across what appears to be a clear field to escape foes. It happens with the Blink spell in A:CS, too. hopefully this change will show why it thinks the way is blocked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any thoughts about the numbers of Quick Use version Action shortcut button slots?

 

- Jeff Vogel

How about six action shortcut slots vs two quick use slots? I find that I only use it when I don't want to put stuff in the junk bag but everyone ran out of space.

I'm mostly finished Crystal Souls and I would use one slot for lanterns and one for the orb. There are more than four spells that I keep on using repeatedly depending on immunities and adding in adrenaline rush takes up another slot.

I'm sure that there are wand users who would disagree with me.....but this is my thoughts on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilith   

One thing I forgot to mention: I will be implementing a way to see the exact path a character will take in combat before you move.

 

Any thoughts about the numbers of Quick Use version Action shortcut button slots?

 

- Jeff Vogel

 

Is it feasible to just have, like, eight multi-purpose quickslots that players can stick either an item or an ability into according to their own preference?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I forgot to mention: I will be implementing a way to see the exact path a character will take in combat before you move.

Thank you - just, thank you.

 

Having a character unexpectedly wander away from enemies in combat because another character is in the way, effectively wasting 2 turns, was very annoying. Even just (optionally?) preventing paths where the character can't reach the destination in 1 turn would save a lot of frustration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I forgot to mention: I will be implementing a way to see the exact path a character will take in combat before you move.

 

Any thoughts about the numbers of Quick Use version Action shortcut button slots?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! This is the best thread.

 

For Item/Action slots, I think there is a wide range of preferences. I will say that it feels easier to use an action without an Action shortcut slot (since they all appear in one window in Avadon), than it is to use a combat item without a Quick Use slot (since you have to use the "get" command to access your inventory which is less intuitive and also, due to having played other SW games, makes me feel like I'm going to waste an AP when I do it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Edgwyn   

I never use the action buttons, and I almost always have more 4 quick use slots full, essentially for the reasons that Slartibus laid out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

* Quick Use and Ability Preset Buttons

 

I am strongly considering changing to 3 Quick Use buttons and 5 Ability Preset buttons. Feedback welcome.

 

No strong feelings here. I'm weird and never bothered with the quick use slots, I just open up the list manually every time.

 

* Difficulty

 

My games have long dealt with difficulty by making foes have more health and do more damage. I want to handle this in a smarter way.

 

I am strongly considering having area of effect spells do friendly fire damage on Hard and Torment level. I want combat positioning in my games to make a difference, and this will be a key part of that. I will also make the more nasty foe abilities (like charm and fear) be more common on higher difficulties.

 

Feedback welcome.

 

This sounds good to me. Increasing enemy stats never really felt appropriate for increasing difficulty. This should require new strategies and make positioning more important.

 

* Skill Tree

 

Will be completely redone. There will be three separate trees instead of three inter-connected trees, and skill prerequisites will be massively cut back. This will allow a lot more freedom in character builds and less spending skill points on things you don't want.

 

I am also massively tweaking abilities for all classes and adding new abilities. If a particular ability has proved to be utterly useless or way overpowered, I'd like to know.

 

Awesome. One of my biggest issues has been all the prerequisites when navigating the old trees. As for underpowered abilities, I would include basically any abilities that scale of strange attributes (like earthquake and the pots). Also spells that do physical damage (earthquake, steel wind); because of how much armor enemies tend to have in comparison to elemental resistances, these spells end up doing pretty crappy damage. Steel Wind is supposed to be the upgrade to Lightning Spray, but it consistently does less damage and costs more fatigue/cooldown. Only reason to use it is if the enemy is immune to lightning. Ice Bolt on sorcerer also feels kind of weak (although it isn't useless); it does marginally more damage than their autoattack, but on a 6 turn cooldown with a fatigue cost, it's extremely underwhelming. I've also found charm to be near useless, as it seems to miss around 90% of the time, even with heavy investment into the skill; although that may be an issue of how enemy defenses work.

 

* Tinkermage Balance

 

I don't usually care too much about balancing character classes against each other. This isn't a PVP game. If shamans are tougher than shadowwalkers, or whatever, that isn't a big deal.

 

However, it is a problem when one class is so much tougher than the others that it makes it impossible to balance the game. In this spirit, tinkermages will be getting a mild nerfing.

 

Completely agree. It's also really annoying when I'm searching the boards for advice for certain fights, and half the advice is tinkermage specific and all the best strategies require one (or two)... no class should be that out of control power-wise. The damage output and durability of the turrets/pylons should be looked at; specifically, I think that the turrets should be rather fragile, requiring important positioning.

 

* Right-Clicking

 

I will be implementing better right-click functionality and making it work on Macs too.

 

Sounds good to me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spidweb   

Is it feasible to just have, like, eight multi-purpose quickslots that players can stick either an item or an ability into according to their own preference?

 

This seems like a really good idea. It'd take some work, but not a prohibitive amount. I will consider it strongly.

 

(Note: For interface/difficulty issues like this, most improvements will also be implemented in Avernum games.)

 

- Jeff Vogel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kelandon   

I guess you've probably read the wishlist thread, but I wanted to highlight one request I made over there: more variety in the number of accompanying Hands. In an initial sequence, we get 1. In the endgame, we get everyone. Otherwise we always have 2. But it would be cool to have certain special events in which we had more varying numbers, especially larger parties. Maybe for the last trip out to an area, they improved the portal and now we can take 3, not just 2. Or maybe there is some in-base quest on which we can take everyone even before the endgame.

 

It doesn't seem like it would be very hard (though the fights may be a little harder to balance), and I think the effect would be really cool. Just a thought.

 

EDIT: Also, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate that you're doing this. Both that you're putting work into the engine for the final game and that you're taking board community feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Edgwyn   

I'd settle for having all of the hands after the initial sequence. I still miss my six person parties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I previously started a stickied thread with suggested improvements that would make Avadon 3 a much better gameplay experience than Avadon 1 and 2: http://spiderwebforu...y-suggestions/.

 

But if nothing else, for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE REMOVE THE LEVEL CAP. That is all. :grin:

 

P.S. As Kelandon mentioned, I really appreciate your working directly with us on the forums to solicit suggestions and feedback. It's frankly the first time I've seen this kind of interaction from Spiderweb during the development cycle (outside the closed beta testing team). I'm sure it will make Avadon 3 that much stronger, and hope this closer connection to the fan community is a trend that will continue with future titles!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alberich   

I also was a contributor to the "wishlist" thread - on interface my main suggestion was adding a way to save the game in between a dialogue that starts a fight, and the fight itself. (i.e., if you lose the fight and wish to reload, you don't have to go through the dialogue again). As I commented there, I admire the way you look for ways to take the irritation out of CRPG's...as with the junk bag for example...please never miss an opportunity to keep that up.

 

You can never put too much effort into the storytelling...that includes the end of the story, telling people what happened to various NPC's and plot threads, beyond your immediate companions (So I can see how my choices made a difference; the more my choices make a difference, the more I like an RPG, even if the results weren't obviously predictable.) I keep buying your games because you do that well; please keep it up!

 

I like the idea of adding more "ability preset" buttons...I definitely use those a lot more often than "quick use" items.

 

On balancing the higher levels...the main thing I've noticed is this: In Avadon as opposed to other games, it seemed to me that the extra difficulty didn't show up much in the "grinding" fights as it did in the major encounters. This is a good thing. It meant that I didn't have to run away to heal every time I killed a few wretches...that kind of thing just makes the game slower. So however you make the tough levels tougher, please consider focusing it on the major encouters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mazor   
I would suggest that you make scarab abilities follow the same rules as skill tree abilities for determining which stat contributes to damage dice.

 

Maybe make scarabs scale with levels instead (with a relevant formula of course)? You get the same scarabs regardless of your character class choice or party choice, and having scarabs that are pretty useless to your composition of choice kinda suck.

 

This might be hard to balance on some "cross-class skills" such as healing on non healing classes, or ranged abilities on melee fighters, etc.

On the other hand, a character with 7 ranged AoE attacks doesn't really want to be mostly limited to scarabs that offer similar abilities, therefore you can balance around the idea of people having those "cross-class skills" where applicable.

 

Another option, easier to balance but more boring, is having scarab drops/rewards/buying options based on your class choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilith   

It'd be nice to have a page on the character sheet where I can see the total bonuses from skills and items to things like melee, missile and magical damage, critical hit rate and healing, for easy reference. If I've got four or five different items equipped on my shaman that each give a different percentage bonus to healing, for example, it'd be convenient to be able to look in one place and see that I've got a 38% overall bonus to healing rather than have to add them up myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm late to the party, but I'm very excited about this announcement. I started to play Spiderweb games with Avadon, and I still keep the past two entries as some of the best rpg games out there. That said, I will try to contribute to the discussion; please excuse my poor english.

 

New sounds and new spell effects: Great idea; that kind of change will contribute to give new personality to the third part. Along with the new skills revision, of course.

 

3 Quick Use buttons and 5 Ability Preset buttons: Not sure if you mean what I think, but if it means 3 use buttons for quick using items and 5 use buttons for quick casting spells, this is very welcome. In fact, I would even reduce further the items quick buttons +1 spell button, since I think the general gameplay flow revolves around skills/spells (and items being crucial only in major fights).

 

Difficulty: About the smarter way to implement difficulty, yes, that would be VERY welcome, too. Enemies with tons of health... lately almost every rpg tends to do this and it feels awkward -even boring sometimes. As a general rule, I think that battles would benefit from being more quick paced in the same way Geneforge 1 battles were -only refering to the battle speed, of course; enemies were less HP inflated. If you keep the GREAT work with boss battles, I'm very excited to see what you bring along.

About the AOE friendly fire, I think it's a great idea, but maybe not just as an option for higher difficulties, but as an option completely independent from the difficulty choice. Although, I must confess that if adapting this to the game results in a lot of trouble to make battles playable and fun, I wouldn't mind much if it is finally not present.

 

Skill Tree - Will be completely redone - prerequisites will be massively cut back: Finally, I completely agree with this. Along with the level cap, the most annoying aspect of Avadon 1&2. As a personal wish, I would be expecting the Sorceress to keep her/his role as a pure damaging caster in some of the skill trees. But the chance to spend some points into mental magic too, without sacrificing the main role would be amazing.

Avadon was never about non-battle abilities, but I always felt the game would benefit from some bits of those. Maybe keep the unlock skill for shadowalkers and turning the base-independent skill of every class as some kind of non-combat skill (like mine tinkering for tinkermages, intimidating for blademasters and diplomacy/leadership for soreceress, for example).

 

-----

 

As a personal request, I'll be joining the petition about the level cap. Avadon 2 was fantastic, but the level cap was hit waaaaay too early. I would even recommend to completely rethink the level cap idea and turning it into something else. I sincerely think this is by far the worst element from Avadon 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More frequent autosaves? Autosaving on every zone exit was fine in Geneforge, but here when zones are large enough to have a sandwich when moving from point A to point B and can have multiple stairways besides, if the player is forced to use an autosave a fair bit of progress will be lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilith   

More frequent autosaves? Autosaving on every zone exit was fine in Geneforge, but here when zones are large enough to have a sandwich when moving from point A to point B and can have multiple stairways besides, if the player is forced to use an autosave a fair bit of progress will be lost.

 

It's tricky, because the autosave system has to strike a balance between "minimising the average amount of progress you lose when you revert to an autosave" and "minimising the chance of autosaving you into a dire situation" -- an autosave is only useful if it puts you in a better situation than both your current state and your last manual save, after all. If autosaves are only made on leaving areas, the game can be reasonably sure you're not hopelessly stuck somewhere. If you're in a dangerous area that doesn't let you leave the same way you came in, then having an autosave that's guaranteed to be outside that area could be vital if it turns out you're in over your head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough, but I think departures from the "main level", like going down a trapdoor or up stairs, should trigger autosaves. I personally can't recall any situations where I got into a tunnel and later needed to get out of both the tunnel and the main zone.

 

Another thought. When a hasted/frenzied character can't move after attacking or casting a spell, could there please be an exception for closing to melee with a target? It's annoying to kill someone with a frenzied melee character and end up wasting the second action because the other enemies are one or two spaces away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilith   

Fair enough, but I think departures from the "main level", like going down a trapdoor or up stairs, should trigger autosaves. I personally can't recall any situations where I got into a tunnel and later needed to get out of both the tunnel and the main zone.

 

Vardegras' caverns might qualify, although I don't remember off the top of my head whether you're locked in before or after entering the underground area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilith   

I mean, if you find autosaves insufficiently frequent for your liking, you can always use the quicksave button frequently and make manual saves occasionally in case your last save leaves you somewhere you don't want to be -- and then you still have the autosave to fall back on if even your last manual save isn't far enough back. I don't find the current save system particularly hard to use in a way that works for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spidweb   

Making autosaves frequent isn't a big deal. The code is already in the iPad version. I'll probably make that change.

 

I just changed combat targeting to match Avernum 2 and the iPad versions: Target a creature in combat by selecting the space it's in. Targeting and movement will be far more precise now.

 

Next up is showing the exact path you'll move to the cursor location in combat. When you move you'll know exactly where you'll go.

 

- Jeff Vogel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Davies   

Thank you a thousand times over, Mr. Vogel. Will there be some way to ALTER that course before embarking should you find it unsatisfactory?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could change the autosaves so they take up two slots.

One would save every time you enter a new region and the other would save at set intervals.

This would allow saves closer to the action as well as a zone reset if you get stuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, there have definitely been times that the on-zone-entrance autosave has given me a way out of a big mistake.

 

OH. Speaking of saved games. Right now, in the save game dialog box, the only way to clear a file name is to manually hit delete for every single character in the name. You can't even hold down delete, you have to press, release, press, release, etc. If you start reusing old save slots, this makes it a huge hassle to give your save files usefully descriptive names.

 

For example, let's say I save a game as "Cordelia - 2nd quest". Many saves later, I'm on another playthrough with another character. If I want to reuse that save slot with an accurate label, I have to press and release the delete key 20 times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not against more frequent autosaves, but only if it's still easy enough to access the save on zone change. In other words, 2 auto save slots would be preferable, but honestly I'd still be happy with 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OH. Speaking of saved games. Right now, in the save game dialog box, the only way to clear a file name is to manually hit delete for every single character in the name. You can't even hold down delete, you have to press, release, press, release, etc. If you start reusing old save slots, this makes it a huge hassle to give your save files usefully descriptive names.

 

For example, let's say I save a game as "Cordelia - 2nd quest". Many saves later, I'm on another playthrough with another character. If I want to reuse that save slot with an accurate label, I have to press and release the delete key 20 times.

In the Windows Humble Bundle version of Avadon 1, at least, holding the delete or backspace key works fine. (Version seems relevant because the Humble Bundle version of Avernum 1 has better support for my keyboard settings than my Steam copy of Geneforge 4. Can't test my hypothesis as there is no game for which I have local copies of both versions.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weird. Even with that, though, it would remain frustrating. If the save game dialogue isn't going to use a normal text box, there should at least be a way to clear the name in a single keystroke, not a repeated or held-down key.

 

Maybe I'm the only one who uses all the save slots, but it really makes me miss the old mac file-saving dialogue box, and that's sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jerakeen   

Maybe I'm the only one who uses all the save slots...

You are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×