Garrulous Glaahk Brainless Void Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hi, everyone! I'm new to the forums so I would like to hear some of your thoughts on this to maybe induce some (healthy) thinking. This has been running in my mind for some time so I thought it might be good to hear what others have to say. We know drakons have the ability to shape right. Like what shapers do when they make a new creation from nothing but raw essence. So we can say that drakons can shape whatever creature the shapers can and maybe even more because they have less or no limitations at all. With these train of thoughts, i came to wonder why in the game, no one bothered to shape the best creature out there, humans (IMHO). I'm not talking about self shaping here thru canisters and geneforge but the act of shaping a new human being from raw essence. Maybe this limitation was mentioned in game and Im just not paying attention so let me know. Also if someone knows an older thread like this please direct me to the right path (a link maybe) coz I want to read it. Well, I know that these ideas will definitely clash with many religious and natural laws in the real world so please dont make any rants about that here coz we are talking about the world of geneforge. SurraAgob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Relevant Geneforge 1 spoilers below the cut: One of the big plot reveals in Geneforge 1 is that serviles are humans, just modified to be more obedient, better at carrying out menial tasks, and visibly different from other humans so that they're recognisable as serviles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Brainless Void Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hmm, servilles. Makes sense. Shapers are control maniacs so they would not want to make anything they cant or are too intelligent to control. Hence, making servilles with an obedient nature and a natural fear to shapers. Shapers really are like gods in these games! Btw thanks for the info Lilith. I havent finished G1 yet so I wouldnt know. Im still curious about the drakons though. They have less limitations right? Or maybe they just believe that they are superior than humans so have not bothered in shaping them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Hyena of Ice Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Shaping humans in any way is likely to be highly illegal. We know that augmenting an existing human is, and it can be safely assumed that thahds, betas, and drayks were created entirely from animal stock (or at least according to official history) However, to my understanding, research has to be done using animal stock before the shaper society could figure out how to shape an actual human. Which could mean doing things as unethical as experimentation on prisoners or even something as heinous as trying to augment/alter babies in the womb. In G3 (though I haven't looked at the actual stats) it seemed like getting augmented gained you a lot of rebellious points, so that gives us just a bit of an idea. As for Drakons, as far as I know they have no special limitations or better abilities than human Shapers-- they're better at it solely because they have some understanding of genetics, same with the Barazites in G2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 What's the point of shaping more humans? Humans are already good at making more of themselves. There'd presumably be issues with fully-formed but entirely ignorant humans that would still mean putting in a lot of work to make them actually useful; that's probably why serviles are all born, not shaped, now that the stock exists. The shaped creations are all improvements in some way from a base and designed for specific things. What's the point of making a baseline human? —Alorael, who wouldn't even be so sure that no shaper locked in his lab has not made... a man! Presumably because he wants an heir to carry on his great work but can't figure out how to do this the normal way, or thinks shaping is more awesome, or something. And probably at least half of those cases are the kinds of sealed bunkers that are full of mines, unstable things, and shades. Because it's traditional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 In just seven days, Alorael can make you a ma-a-a-a-an. nikki. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Brainless Void Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hmm, maybe to make some superhuman soldiers that are immune to all diseases and totally obedient. And can also shape and command other lesser creations to battle. Minus the emotional attachments of real people. And lets face it, humans look better than servilles! Nothing will be intimidated by servilles. Just think of clone troopers in starwars. Maybe we can call them "soldiervilles", lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 In just seven days, Alorael can make you a ma-a-a-a-an. Well, that just made the Alorael canon a little more flavourful. Slawbug and Jerakeen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Hyena of Ice Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hmm, while we're talking about ethics, any idea what the Shaper view would be on uh-- consuming one's creations for survival when like-- lost in the mountains or something? Yeah, messed up question, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Not really, I mean ornks are creations. I can think of way more troubling uses for custom-made lifeforms than as food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Brainless Void Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 While at it, think about what essence tastes like. Would eating essence be the same as absorbing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 If shapers are filled with essence then they should never become hungry and wouldn't need to eat again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hmm, maybe to make some superhuman soldiers that are immune to all diseases and totally obedient. Thahds and battle alphas/betas? And can also shape and command other lesser creations to battle. Minus the emotional attachments of real people. If the Shapers could do that I think they would have ensured the loyalty and lack of attachment in drayks and drakons, averting much of the troubles of the rebellion. Actually, getting all this seems to be a lot of the point of those creations, maybe minus the shaping, and it backfired terribly. —Alorael, who really thinks the Shapers never got careful manipulation of minds and character down the way they nailed physical form and capability. They couldn't get blind loyalty without stupidity, even among serviles; trying to get anything capable of leadership and shaping is probably way beyond what shaping can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Hyena of Ice Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Not really, I mean ornks are creations. I can think of way more troubling uses for custom-made lifeforms than as food. *Facepalms* Oh, yeah. Boy do I feel dumb. Thahds and battle alphas/betas? I always assumed that those were created from simian stock. Esp. considering how gorilla-like their death wails are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Brainless Void Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 I totally forgot about servant minds. Human smart, capable of leadership and blindly loyal w/o being dumb. But, is useless physically. I guess shaping isnt all powerful afterall. So, my guess is three main parameters for a creation are physical, mental, and obedience. In a creation you can only max out 2 but need to sacrifice 1 of the parameters. Your thoughts guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I totally forgot about servant minds. Human smart, capable of leadership and blindly loyal w/o being dumb. But, is useless physically. I guess shaping isnt all powerful afterall. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere (G1 or G2?) that servant minds are deliberately made to be physically useless. It's less that they can't be smart, obedient AND strong, and more that Shapers just don't want to risk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd priumcyaes Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Confirmed about the minds; I think it was mentioned through several games that the shapers realized the dangers of highly intelligent creations... so they shaped servant minds to be both immobile and very obedient. As many of us could probably recall from battling rebellious/controlled minds, servant minds have very good self defense mechanisms and can control hordes of creations -- it's probably good that said minds were incapable of moving around. In Geneforge 2 or 3, it's also mentioned that serviles are specifically bred (and conditioned throughout most of their lives) to be simple and obedient creatures. One could question what this says about the abilities of Shapers, but I think it just means that through trial and error, they realized that creating creations that could easily overpower them in many areas was unadvisable. Which is probably why we have creations that do relatively specific jobs (ie, servile and menial work/basic stuff that humans are too lazy or busy to do, thahds and hitting things/acting as herd bodyguards, servant minds and thoughts/control/advice/companionship?, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Hyena of Ice Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It's also mentioned in G3 that shapers prefer their creations to be dumb, since stupid creatures are easier to control and less likely to rebel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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