Angierach (A2:CS)

[Dikiyoba]

So I'm just frustrated with Jeff's handling of Angierach right now. It's one of the more important dungeons in the game, because of the Crystal Soul. It should be creepy and suspenseful. But it's not either of those things. It's just boring and badly done.

 

1. The Arena battle is way too long. There are loads of monsters with lots of HP but no interesting tricks. So it was just a long, long, boring fight. (At least they couldn't actually kill my party members, because at least it meant I didn't have to redo the fight and get frustrated because of that.)

 

2. I'm okay with the Twelve becoming the Ten (even though twelve is a cooler number than ten, and it leaves the fortress with an empty corner, and it would have been easy to replace the nagas with two drakes or eyebeasts or some other intelligent magical creature), but why is one of the Ten a random cryodemon with no name when the other nine clearly have names? It's too easy to miss that the cryodemon is actually one of the Ten and not just a random demon the rakshasi summoned, which is what I thought on my first playthrough. Ugh.

 

3. The text boxes when you approach the living quarters of some of the Ten are all messed up. The Rakshasi have Midori's taunts. Midori has the old naga taunts (plus her own, just outside her chamber). Down the main hallway, the human taunts are too early, being closer to the Crystal Soul chamber than to their chamber. If you approach the humans via the efreet chambers, you don't get human taunts at all. You can also avoid the efreet taunts by going into their room via the human chamber route.

 

4. Midori is now just some crazy lich. Her motivation? Crazy. Her cruelty? Crazy. Is she evil? No, just crazy. Is she an interesting villain? Not anymore! Was it heroic for my party to slay her? Not really; it's awfully hard to feel good about killing a crazy person.

 

5. The new text for Quinby is boring. The original stuff is great, telling the party about his torment and helping you escape. But then he's all "I suddenly no longer care that you have avenged me. Look at me fading away!" He was literally flashing red with anger earlier, now he feels nothing? His new responses are out of character.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Triumph]

Having never played E2/A2 (aside from the demos many many ages ago), may I ask what Midori was like in the original? I though it was an interesting dungeon, but I had no frame of reference to compare it with earlier iterations.

[Oneiros]

I'm curious too. He said he was making "new material, new quests, a new dungeon, more dialogue, actual boss fights" but, having never played the original, I don't know which was which.

[Randomizer]

New quests are definite, but most are minor or just added when you will normally kill everyone in a place.

 

There's always more dialogue.

 

Boss fights are harder if you increase difficulty with the boss getting more abilities in addition to multiplying all the boss stats.

 

A few new items, but some of the old favorites like Smite haven't gotten down graded.

[txmimi]

Well, I'm extremely frustrated because the arena monsters DO kill my party, over and over and over. I foolishly and stupidly don't have a save I want to go back to, but don't see how I can defeat even the first round of monsters. My characters are all level 33 and up. Is that not enough?

[Laertes]

Well, I'm extremely frustrated because the arena monsters DO kill my party, over and over and over. I foolishly and stupidly don't have a save I want to go back to, but don't see how I can defeat even the first round of monsters. My characters are all level 33 and up. Is that not enough?

 

I found that to be one of the tougher fights in the game. They key is to kill those damn eyebeasts as quickly as possible, so they can't keep healing your enemies. To beat them I had to completely throw away mana conservation, and had my mage fireblast them each round. It's probably the only fight where I had full mana in the beginning, and ended up having to drink energy potions before it was over.

 

Do you have any potions on you? You could always spend an invulnerability potion if you got one.

[Randomizer]

Invulnerability potions are needed on harder than normal difficulties. Also you want to stay in battle frenzy mode to increase your attacks to get rid of the monsters after the first wave as quickly as possible. This is one dungeon where you burn through potions.

[txmimi]

I didn't realize that once you teleport into the dungeon, you can't go back out until fighting an untold number of tough monsters. Grrr. . . and it just so happened that I don't have a good save to go back to. A bit of a dirty trick, I'd say.. .

[Jerakeen]

What difficulty are you playing at? I don't remember having too much trouble there on Normal, and I was below level 33. I haven't tried it on higher difficulties yet.

 

If you don't want to turn down the difficulty, the "backtostart" cheat will take you back to Formello. There's a slight risk of messing up some flags, but I think it would probably be okay.

[Slawbug]

There's a slight risk of ruining the rest of your game, but not finding that out until hours later, if that's what you mean

[Jerakeen]

The only thing that might get messed up is the sequence of events at Angierach, which would be simple enough to test for.

 

Save before cheating.

 

Use cheat, make another save.

 

Return to Angierach. Do you still fall down the pit and commence battles? Yes, good, return to save 2 and come back later. No, maybe still good if you can skip that level and go straight to the Ten. No, that's somehow messed up? Go back to save 1 and turn down the difficulty.

[Slawbug]

No, I was talking about the no-more-items-in-containers bug that backtostart was known to cause in A4 and A5. Although SW said they fixed it after A5, we had multiple reports of the no-more-items bug occuring in A6, Avadon, and, most relevantly, in AEFTP. It's possible that backtostart has been perfectly decoupled from the no-more-items syndrome... but since that part isn't fixed, I remain cautious and would not recommend using the code.

[Jerakeen]

Oh, I thought that had been fixed. Fair enough.

[txmimi]

Well, I am playing at normal level, but maybe I didn't choose the right skills for everyone, because I just got killed over and over and over. Couldn't make a dent through the hounds and gazers, much less the ghasts. So, I'll use this forum to confess my sins. . . I used the healing cheat codes to survive and move through. I will definitely be playing the game through a second time and will try to learn from these errors. Now to find out how to retrieve the crystal soul that is there.

[Laertes]

Well, I am playing at normal level, but maybe I didn't choose the right skills for everyone, because I just got killed over and over and over. Couldn't make a dent through the hounds and gazers, much less the ghasts. So, I'll use this forum to confess my sins. . . I used the healing cheat codes to survive and move through. I will definitely be playing the game through a second time and will try to learn from these errors. Now to find out how to retrieve the crystal soul that is there.

 

What's your party like? And what difficulty are you playing on?

 

As for saves, to be cautious I always have two current saves. One I'll save anytime it's convenient. The other I'll only update when I return to a friendly town. That way even if my primary save gets ruined for some reason, I don't get set back any further than the last friendly town I visited. I also tend to make separate save files after major milestones in the game and leave them untouched until I need the room for another save. That way I not only have some additional backups, but I can also revisit different points from throughout the game if I'm so inclined.

[txmimi]

I have a human blademaster, a nephil archer, a slith mage and a nephil priest. Normal difficulty. I almost always have at least 2 saves when going through what I expect to be a difficult area. What screwed me on this one is there was no going back. . . and since my only saves would have set me back too far, I took the easier route for this playthrough. Good tips, though!

[apolloooo]

 

 

4. Midori is now just some crazy lich. Her motivation? Crazy. Her cruelty? Crazy. Is she evil? No, just crazy. Is she an interesting villain? Not anymore! Was it heroic for my party to slay her? Not really; it's awfully hard to feel good about killing a crazy person.

 

 

 

mind telling us how midori used to be like?

[Dikiyoba]

It's been years since I played it, so I don't remember exactly, but I know that very little was said. There was the "voice that is darkness itself" message and a message to the effect of ending Angierach's power now that you've brought down the leader of the Twelve once you killed her, but that was about it. The rest was left up to your imagination.

 

Dikiyoba.

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

You apparently have a wild imagination then

[Elle989]

It took me 3 reboots to get through the pit monsters and I stayed near the barriers so that I could run through as soon as it opened, so that was a good fight and doable, but I just cannot beat the litch to get the key and rescue the crystal soul. She wipes out my whole party after quite awhile with a lightening strike that blows through invulnerabilty and everything else. Any ideas?

[Lilith]

Most late-game bosses will get stronger every time they take a turn, so you have to finish the battle as quickly as possible. Look for ways to increase your party's damage output. If you have the Haste spell at level 3, or any Speed Burst scrolls or speed potions, you can give yourself the Battle Frenzy effect, which will let you take two actions every round and get the battle over with twice as fast. Hopefully as many characters as possible also have access to the Adrenaline Rush battle discipline, which will let you take even more extra actions: if you're under the effect of Battle Frenzy you can attack once, use Adrenaline Rush and attack three more times for a total of four attacks in that round.

 

What's your party's level and stats?

[Randomizer]

Also that is a fight where once the lich summons friends from outside the room it's time to use invulnerability potions to protect you. Spread out the party around the room so the area attacks can't get more than two.

 

You can get the key by going through the rakshasa room and using tool use and move mountains to get to it without facing the lich.

[Elle989]

Lilith, I have level 31 & 32's Human soldier, Nephil archer, Slith hedge wizard, Human shaman; on Normal. I see ..... i will need to get more speed potions!

...

[Lilith]

Lilith, I have level 31 & 32's Human soldier, Nephil archer, Slith hedge wizard, Human shaman; on Normal. I see ..... i will need to get more speed potions!

...

 

That should be a high enough level to take on Angierach. What have you been putting their stat and skill points into when your characters level up? In general, it's better to decide on one way of doing damage for each character and invest most of your stat points in that (Strength for melee weapons, Dexterity for missile weapons or Intelligence for spellcasting). Of course, if you've spread your stats around then it's a bit late in the game to change that now.

 

Keep in mind that if things get too tough, you can change the difficulty level at any time during play.

[Elle989]

OK, got the litch, thanks for the advice ... yes you really have to focus on getting in as much damage as possible right away, thanks!

[miles]

Arena battle is too long and boring and it is also (for me) too difficult on hard mode.

I don't understand why Jeff makes the last battles always too difficult and boring, while the whole game ( and so the others) is a big wonderful game,

[Slawbug]

Because if the final boss is too much of a pushover, it leaves players feeling like their growth and accomplishments during the game had been devalued. Of course, players reach the end of the game with WIDE variances in how effective their parties are, so balance is hard to find.

 

In newer games, Jeff's main (fairly sensible) solution has been to have a final boss that isn't so difficult, but some optional bosses (or challenge areas) that are much harder.

 

A2:CS was probably the hardest game of all to do this with, since the game structure allows for five possible "final" dungeons depending on what order you do the 3 game-winning quests in.

[miles]

I understand your considerations, but I think that every player wants to do every game's area and battle. I have the sensation as if Jeff at the game's end says : ..and now stop to your pleasure, here begins your suffering (and you have always the same party at the same game's difficulty and yes you expect an harder life at the end, but not so much ).

Yes you can reduce the difficulty, but to do this is a bad victory.

This is only my opinion and I like Jeff's games that I consider the best RPG.

[Slawbug]

If every player has to be able to do every area and battle without having to reduce the difficulty, there is literally no way to make it fit that criteria.

 

"you have always the same party at the same game's difficulty"

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but that's not true. You have a huge amount of flexibility in how you build your party.

[miles]

Just to explane : It's clear that not every player has the same ability and can't do the Whole game without reduce the difficulty.

I have the same party and the same game's difficulty just before to do the final battle and I 've not had problems (hard mode) to arrive at the game's end, I think this means I'm an expert player (too many years of RPG games) and the party is well build and developed but at the game's end the difficulty's increase is too brutal and so very frustrating for me.

Thank for your answer..

[Slawbug]

Thanks for clarifying, miles. That makes sense.