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Perkendes

Frustrated About Series

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Hi guys.

 

I'm an old school player since Amiga and Amstrad CPC 464 era. I wanna enter Spiderweb universe with Avernum series but quite frustrated now.

 

Avernum 1

Avernum 2 (recently released)

Avernum 3

Blades of Avernum

Avernum 4

Avernum 5

Avernum 6

 

Why did they release Avernum 2 after all those games? Is there any particular reason? As i read, Avernum 2 has a completely different story. I wanna start playing it first but still frustrated :) Sorry if there is another topic or info about my question. Thanks.

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Avernum: Escape from the Pit is a ground-up rewrite of Avernum 1.

Avernum 2: Crystal Souls is a ground-up rewrite of Avernum 2.

 

(And Avernum 1-3 are themselves ground-up rewrites of Exile 1-3.)

 

Hope that helps.

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Oh okay thanks. I saw Exile on website but couldn't figure out what was it exactly.

 

Games are looking fantastic, gonna start them after i finish Divinity.

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I suggest you start off with Avernum: Escape from the pit. If you do wish to understand the storyline of Avernum 2 deeper. As far as i can tell the same world is still there. Just that some time has passed since the events of Avernum 1. :grin:

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I suggest you start off with Avernum: Escape from the pit. If you do wish to understand the storyline of Avernum 2 deeper. As far as i can tell the same world is still there. Just that some time has passed since the events of Avernum 1. :grin:

 

I will do that. No problem about release date, content is important :)

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I also suggest to just ignore the old Avernum games and dive straight into the remakes Escape From The Pit and then Crystal Souls.

 

Hope they will remake Avernum 3 and other games too then. 'coz Avernum 2 looks fantastic now. And thanks for all these suggestions, very helpful. :)

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A remake of Avernum 3 is planned. Avernum 4-6 are recent enough that it'll probably be a while before remakes are needed.

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A remake of Avernum 3 is planned. Avernum 4-6 are recent enough that it'll probably be a while before remakes are needed.

 

Great news. Excited to begin the series.

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Exiles are orig. games (freeware now I think but getting those to run on modern comps requires tweaking) and Avernum 1-3 are remakes of them and A4-6 are "new" games.

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To my recollection, the full history of the series goes -

 

Exile: Escape From the Pit (Original Graphics)

Exile 2: Crystal Souls (Original Graphics)

Exile: Escape From the Pit (Improved Graphics)

Exile 2: Crystal Souls (Improved Graphics)

Exile 3: Ruined World

Blades of Exile

Avernum

Avernum II

Avernum III

Blades of Avernum

Avernum IV

Avernum V

Avernum Vi

Avernum: Escape from the Pit

Avernum II: Crystal Souls

Avernum III: Ruined World (Next Avernum to Come)

 

Whole lot of mileage out of these caves, no?

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I still stubbornly insist that the new-graphic versions of E1 and E2 postdate the release of E3. Also, "improved graphics" is really not accurate -- rather try "E3-style graphics" :p

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if Exiles and 1st 3 (incls remakes) Avernums happen during same years (wishful thinking but still) then we have wandered around Avernum few 100 years.

 

BOE and BOA might not be considered in continuity.

 

It'll take several years until A4-6 need remaking (that depends what Microsoft and Apple do although).

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I think Avernum 4 and 5 will need remaking when Jeff can get to them. I don't think it's fair to lump 4 and 5 in with 6. Avernum 6 had a totally revamped GUI/graphics, and I enjoyed playing it, but when I tried 4 and 5 I didn't last more than 5-10 minutes cause of how archaic the UI was. Avernum 6 is a lot closer to A:eftp in terms of the game engine than it is to Avernum 5.

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I didn't find A4 particularly hard to play for the UI, I do not like the blending of indoors and outdoors. That said, the earliest that Jeff could remake A4 on his current schedule would be for a Spring to Summer of 2017 release. By then, windows 11 will be in a beta form and who knows what Apple will have changed, so I think that Jeff will need to do an A4 remake as either the release after A:BW or the release after the release after A:BW, leaving room for him to start remaking Geneforge.

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I didn't find A4 particularly hard to play for the UI, I do not like the blending of indoors and outdoors. That said, the earliest that Jeff could remake A4 on his current schedule would be for a Spring to Summer of 2017 release. By then, windows 11 will be in a beta form and who knows what Apple will have changed, so I think that Jeff will need to do an A4 remake as either the release after A:BW or the release after the release after A:BW, leaving room for him to start remaking Geneforge.

 

2002: Avernum 3, Geneforge 1

2003: Geneforge 2

2005: Geneforge 3

2006: Avernum 4

2007: Geneforge 4, Nethergate, Resurrection

2008: Avernum 5

2009: Geneforge 5

2010: Avernum 6

2011: Avadon 1

2012: A1: EFTP

2013: Avadon 2

2015: A2:CS (should have been late 2014 to follow the cycle)

 

With 1 game/year, if he was gonna remake the whole Geneforge series, going forward could be:

2015: Avadon 3

2016: A3:RW

2017: Geneforge 1 remake?

2018: A4 Remake

2019: Geneforge 2 remake

2020: A5 Remake

2021: Geneforge 3 remake

2022: A6 Remake

2023: Geneforge 4 remake

2024: ?

2025: Geneforge 5 remake

 

Of course, this ignores the possibility of making new games rather than remaking old ones, which he might also decide to do.

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You left out BoA.

 

I doubt SW wants to stop making entirely new games entirely. I also suspect that remakes of A4 on (and G1 on) will be simpler affairs for SW, since they had refined some of their game data organization by then. For the same reason, I suspect those games will last a bit longer before demanding remakes.

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Jeff in his blog about the this game release said Avernum 2 was released in 2000. So 14 to 15 years is now the new estimate between remakes.

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AMA from a few days back:

 

 

Interesting news from Jeff:

- he will be switching to a new engine soon, that will include a lot of more "modern niceties" like mousewheel support

- Avernum 3 and Avadon 3 are confirmed

- The Geneforge series will be getting remakes

- He'll develop an all new game, and likely use kickstarter for funding

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i wonder if when he gets around to a4+, he'll add overworld maps like a1-3, or will they use the same interconnected map system the originals used.

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So far, all the remakes have had overworld maps... but all the new games have not. The last time Jeff designed a new overworld map of that style was for BoA. So outside of remakes I wouldn't expect a comeback. Sadly.

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Jeff might retire before finishes the Geneforge series if its going to be over a decade from now.

 

or gets to Avernum 4/GF1 remake.

 

if he works upto 2030 (would be 60 years old) then after Avernum 6 remake could become Avernum 0 First Expedition and that's it.

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In all seriousness, I have a lot of questions about the Geneforge remakes that probably can't be answered at this state.

 

The biggest of them is whether the new G1 will be limited to the same creations and spells as the original. You'd want to keep that sense of escalation throughout the series, but it'd be strange to go back to Drayks at endgame.

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I really hope Vogel doesn't waste time remaking Avernums 4 and 5. I see them as Spiderweb's worst games, by about a mile. A4 isn't actively awful, but it felt inconsequential and a bit of a lazy retread to me. A5 has a new setting going for it, but it has next to no plot (it's literally just "kill the bad guy!") and is painfully linear. I found myself loathing it more and more the longer it went on, but forced myself to finish it (because I'm too OCD not to).

 

At anyrate, there'd definitely be no point in remaking A4 in 2018 as I don't think the difference in engine/interface between A4 and the current engine he's using is that great (and I doubt that will change drastically in just 3 years, although maybe the kickstarted engine/game will change that, I don't know what he has planned).

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Even if JV makes remakes from A4-5 plots won't change much and unlikely that A5 would be less linear.

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despite its reception on the forums a4 also apparently sold like hotcakes would sell if hotcakes made you brilliantly intelligent and irresistibly attractive, so there's that

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despite its reception on the forums a4 also apparently sold like hotcakes would sell if hotcakes made you brilliantly intelligent and irresistibly attractive, so there's that

They don't? I want a refund on all those hotcakes I've been spending my hard-earned money on!!!

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A4 got a real thrashing on the forums, but A5 was pretty positively received, despite coming on the heels of the much-lauded G4.

 

A4 was quite similar as A3 and in A5 we explored new areas and got new enemy and worked for Empire instead being Avernites and wandering mercenaries.

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I think the biggest issue was the change from indoor/outdoor to all outdoors.

It was jarring enough that the regulars here didn't like it while new players just found a new game that they liked. And it was well liked.

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New players didn't know better, because A4 was their first look at a Spiderweb game. If you hadn't played A3, then the plot was new. The world didn't look smaller. In A3 outside world you didn't have Silvar, Cotra, and Fort Duvno two rounds away from each other in combat mode as in A4.

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A4 was quite similar as A3

Um, no. To avoid spoilers, let's just say they have a lot of similarities as regards the ultimate villains; other than that... different combat engine, no overlap in areas, little overlap in characters, totally different terrain, different map and zone structure, different character structure.

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New players didn't know better, because A4 was their first look at a Spiderweb game. If you hadn't played A3, then the plot was new.

 

well, if you hadn't played a3 or ultima 5

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