Features You'd Want In Geneforge Remakes

[Learned Noremac]

Title says it all. When the series is eventually remade, what sort of things do you want to see?

 

For me, it's basically two things:

 

1) I want a Junk Bag.

 

2) I don't want to have to guess what my "true" max essence is. For example, if I have 150 max essence and spend 100 of it on creations, I want to see on the stat screen that my "free" essence is only 50. I.E. instead of saying 50/150, have it say something like 50(50)/150

[ThricebornPhoenix]

I believe there are more things I would rather not see (but expect to) than things I would like to see added (and I don't expect to see those).

 

A tooltip or floating text over canisters to indicate their contents prior to usage would be a neat convenience, though.

[boladefuego]

Less meta dependence and more transparent rules/character information in general. I've been replaying the earlier games and prior knowledge is sometimes necessary even when not power gaming. There was an instance where a canister was part or near the tutorial area (G2 I think) and you had no clue what was in it, what the effects would be of using it nor that it would affect the ending, yet the help pop-up encouraged you to click on the canister. I would've done so if I didn't play G1 or read the walkthrough. The trainer/book/canister/shaping bonuses required planning as well (although I think this was already solved in G3 by separating canister/book bonus from trainers). Unclear skill caps made you waste skill points. The money cap was unexpected as well.

 

Oh, and the annoying "move in combat mode" mechanic should really be used as less as possible. Most of the levels that are designed around its use end up being tedious instead of challenging. Using engine mechanics to make something challenging should be left to platformers.

[adc.]

As a Shaper, I would suggest at least having some higher privileges, like getting to hire your own guards, buying your own fortress and such, getting to place pylons in it, raise ornks, post random jobs and let bounty hunters do it etc.

 

As a Rebel, the same as Shapers except you are hidden and crap

 

As a Soldier/Warrior/any infantry unit, you could at least get your own squad, get promoted etc.

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Well, those are my suggestions, I doubt Jeff would add this in game, but who knows? The future keeps many surprises.

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-Nightwatcher

[ArchMage81]

Hidden unlocked characters with bonusess, especially for higher difficulty, like torment

[Learned Noremac]

Oh! I want a Pyroroamer buff. That explosion needs to do way more damage--I think it makes more sense to look at them as "spells" than creations, in terms of balance. I'm spending 15 essence on a fireball that can bite people...it seems to me that it shouldn't do barely any damage on detonation.

[springacres]

Junk bag, definitely. I hate having to constantly drop items before/during battle and pick them up afterwards to avoid encumbrance penalties.

[Jerakeen]

Yeah, I would have said "pack animal" before the invention of the junk bag. Because why couldn't you shape a d'ornky?

[Spukrian]

I just hope that Geneforge keeps that Geneforge feeling and doesn't become too similar to Avadon/Avernum.

 

1. More gameplay balance, i.e. boost melee a bit. In the Geneforge games magic and shaping had abilities that couldn't be raised with skillpoints, only with training, canisters and quest rewards. I would like too see similar abilities for melee and missile combat. If the remakes are using the skill-tree system I see no reason not to bring back Anatomy as a skill.

 

2 Make keeping creations alive for a long time a more viable option. If you create a fyora and keep it alive long enough for it to gain 10 levels, give it something special, e.g. let it evolve into a stronger creation (Warped Fyora maybe?). If you keep it through the game, it could evolve at regular intervals. Or instead of evolving, the fyora could get an upgrade to its attack, or maybe get a new ability...

[ThricebornPhoenix]

If you create a fyora and keep it alive long enough for it to gain 10 levels, give it something special, e.g. let it evolve into a stronger creation (Warped Fyora maybe?). If you keep it through the game, it could evolve at regular intervals.

One thing I would love to see in games generally but especially in Geneforge is more thought and effort put into the non-combat areas of play. There's not a single creation in the series that has any use whatever outside of combat (or theft in G3, which I suspect was not intended), even though descriptions of creations often focus on their everyday purposes. The experimental glowing Roamer in G5 is, I think, what really made me start thinking about this.

 

One of the best things about Geneforge is how detailed and consistent the world usually is. The enemies in the first game were all a part of the weird and wonderful tale of Sucia Island. Every encounter, every battle could be considered a part of the story. The automatic doors, lockpicks, ranged weapons, were all based on the theme of creating or manipulating life to serve one's purpose. And yet, the hidden areas usually rely on concealed levers or event triggers when there could be some that require the use of a digging Clawbug. I'd like to see an additional variant for each creation, something that is not powerful in combat but serves some other role. A pack Thahd, perhaps, that increases how much you can carry. Vlish that increases your party's mental resistance or stealth ability. A cunning drayk that helps you to get better deals in shops. A Roamer variant that does absolutely anything but explode.

 

Those are just a few off-the-cuff ideas. Basically, I think there should be creations which might be helpful, even if only temporarily, not only to Shapers but also to Guardians or Agents who are self-reliant in combat. If they're all 'Shapers', why shouldn't they all have reasons to Shape, to use the universally acknowledged greatest power in the world? We could have more variety in non-combat routes of progression, as well.

[RainbowDashRadical]

No charged creations! Okay, well maybe the Shock Trall and Fire Wingbolt. Also, bring the Terror Vlish back to the equation in the later games

 

I'd also would like to keep the original skill tree leveling system. I hope Jeff doesn't replace it with the skill trees he has in Avadon.

 

And just to be funny, maybe we can have the option to have romance with our creations!

[Val Ritz]

More insight into the ancient history of the Shapers! If we're going back to Sucia Isle, we have to have some stuff with Heustess and the Spirit City.

[ThricebornPhoenix]

If you dig deep enough, you can find a lot of Shaper history in G1. There's a good mixture of facts, hints, and clues: we learn enough to find it interesting, but not so much that it's no longer mysterious. I like that.

 

What Geneforge could use is better continuity/acknowledgement of that history. From what we know of the Shapers' early history, we can understand why they're so strict and controlling. We can also see signs that they had begun to care more for creations since Sucia was Barred (the Arena is probably the most memorable example). Even in G1, this information is only backstory, and you can never talk to anyone about them. The ancient history is understably forgotten in later games, but as far as I can recall the more recent progressive trend also falls by the wayside.

[kuo]

Feature I DON'T want to see: Romance.

I saw someone suggesting this somewhere else....NO NO NO NO NO, PLEASE NO.

This would pretty much wreck the game.

 

 

I WOULD like to see more creation types.

Perhaps giving your creations additional skills, besides one melee and one ranged attack.

[Learned Noremac]

The non combat thing is interesting, but I don't know how practical it could be outside of maybe just 1 or 2 variant creations. The difficulty is that, except for the tier 4 and 5 creations which seem explicitly created for combat purposes, we do actually see some of the "war" creations being multi purpose. For example, Vlish can control other creations, there's some mention of Thahds being used for manual labour (i.e. that would be too heavy for serviles), and so forth--the thing to do would be to find applications of the existing creations that we could actually use.

 

I could totally see Vlish giving some boost to mental resistance. You wouldn't even need a variant one, necessarily.

 

One thing I would like to see is a Spellcraft-like stat for Shaping. A lot of players want to use all the creation types, myself included, despite specializing generally being a choice the game rewards more. A stat that simply raised the level of any type of creation by 1 would be pretty workable, and work the same way as Spellcraft--make it more expensive and not tied to actually being able to make certain types, and you're set.

[aguila95]

For geneforge 1:

 

There are in G1 lots of canisters, why not 5th level creations?, vlish,terror vlish,chargued vlish; battle alpha,beta and gamma?

shape turret skill (tinkermage style), 3th level ornk skill, pyroroamer useful?, acid sting-glaahk?, redshell clawbug?, battle gamma xD

1 hidden ultra-torment-harcore boss (cryodrayk able to shape?)

blessing gems/anvil, artifacts.

more skills for guardian, make it able to use 2 swords

keep the old skills points system,

No romance

the amazing junkbag

[Questionably Legal]

How could romance be put in to G1 at all? Unless you join up with the takers, there is a profound lack of non-hostile humans on the island.

[Upon Mars.]

How could romance be put in to G1 at all? Unless you join up with the takers, there is a profound lack of non-hostile humans on the island.

 

Well Masha seems to be just it.

[kuo]

Well, I wasn't referring to G1 specifically.

[Generic Shaper]

I'd really like to see gender options for each of the classes. It's a little weird when you see a guardian or warrior, especially in 3-5 with its roided out guardians, and the NPC is called a woman. Heck, why not have the ability to customize your PC in more ways than just its color pallet?

 

This would be less likely, but I would like to see a second sub-type for creates after getting three levels in it, especially for fyoras, since its very common for me to get four or five levels in it. If not that, then maybe better bonuses for levels beyond three, maybe have the creation get two bonus levels instead of one for having a fourth point, or getting an extra point in each stat, or something crazy like that.

 

And if we're talking improbable things, why not have a few extra super-dungeons, or just more post game content in general? I just want my Ur-Drakons to feel useful, that's all.

[ThricebornPhoenix]

The non combat thing is interesting, but I don't know how practical it could be outside of maybe just 1 or 2 variant creations. The difficulty is that, except for the tier 4 and 5 creations which seem explicitly created for combat purposes, we do actually see some of the "war" creations being multi purpose. For example, Vlish can control other creations, there's some mention of Thahds being used for manual labour (i.e. that would be too heavy for serviles), and so forth--the thing to do would be to find applications of the existing creations that we could actually use.

Possibly, but going back to my example of the glowing roamer - you can do anything the engine allows with a new variant, but with existing creations you're severely constrained by the boundaries that have already been established for them. One possible compromise would be a way to upgrade baseline creations to simply add a new ability.

 

One thing I would like to see is a Spellcraft-like stat for Shaping. A lot of players want to use all the creation types, myself included, despite specializing generally being a choice the game rewards more.

Assuming Shaping isn't given a complete overhaul, I'd prefer something more behind-the-curtain, e.g. adding in half the levels of the other two Shaping skills. Suddenly those items that raise only one or two Shaping skills are useful for all branches of Shaping!

[Hyena of Ice]

I'd like to see Alwan and Greta function more like characters rather than creations (equipment, PC-like statistics and skill increases, etvl)

 

Also, an "Item Encyclopedia" like what you see in a lot of JRPGs and similar to Geneforge 1, where basically the item is "unlocked" in your encyclopedia after the first time you pick it up.

 

Also a similar "Bestiary" like you see in a lot of JRPGs as well (with a list of some statistics including item drops sans location-specific drops)

 

A possible ability to talk to your party members in a non-annoying way (preferrably by right clicking twice or something, like "click character again to talk")

 

Finally, the possibility to equip creations with an accessory (rings and necklaces-- like say, collars that raise mind affect resistance)

 

Also, headwear.

[Level 1 Hermit]

Above all else, a Junk bag

 

More diverse spells, such as removing lightning, teleport, invisibility for 16 AP or something, etc.

 

Healing up the characters if you change items concerning str(and essence from int, etc) I don't want to enter town twice just to heal that important sliver

 

Fix minor story complications that do no make sense. Like quests that remain if you can't finish it after doing something else. Or storyline remains the same even tho you did some other quest/killed someone. Or people remaining friendly even though you killed their friends/allies.

 

Edit:

Make Romance an option that players can choose at the beginning of the game. The text could be added in and be managed as a side quest available only to players who want it.

 

Make Stealth a skill?

[Goldengirl]

Please don't implement the Avadon-style skill tree.

 

I just don't see how that can reasonably be applied to Shaping, and I really don't want to see things like leadership/mechanics become class-dependent. Having the option to play as a Shaper lookalike in G4 would be cool, with similar justifications as were given to G5. It wouldn't make as much sense in context, though.

 

Earlier expansion of the types of creations that can be made. Specifically in G2, they've been experimenting a lot, and I would like to see the results of that. It would be interesting to have creations that are only available in certain games because they were later abandoned or forgotten. G2 with special Barzite creations, G1 with ancient creations that were later deemed unstable, etc.

 

Please don't hire body guards or set up fortresses. That makes no sense in the game.

[Aleric]

You could bring in Avadon's tree to Geneforge. One section for melee/ranged, one for spells, and another for shaping. Have skills that improve creations or create variants based on what skills in the tree you choose.

[Goldengirl]

It could happen; I'm not sure how the general category (leadership/mechanics/luck) would be dealt with. The real problem, though, is I just don't see those categories as big enough to support skill trees in their current iteration. There's no more nuance than "fire shaping," for instnace, which makes for three branches in the Shaping category that are each just one node long.

 

Also, I'd like to see the healing category separated from Shaping and put somewhere neutral. It makes a modicum of sense to have them together, since they are both concerning life in a broad sense, but it doesn't make sense that an Agent shouldn't be able to heal effectively because that's in the Shaping category. I feel like it should be neutral of class choice. Aside from gameplay reasons, there's also plot basis for this, as there are healers who are not Shapers. The Shapers guard their skills jealously, so it wouldn't make sense for them to tolerate healers outside of their sect.

[Slawbug]

I don't think that would be so hard. I'm imagining AEFTP style skill trees where some are generic, some are class-specific, and some (shaping skills) are perhaps generic at levels 1 and 2 but class-specific at level 3.

[Hyena of Ice]

Really prefer not to import notable features from other SWS franchises. The skill tree belongs in Avadon, only, IMHO, and I'd also rather not see the talents implemented.. Though some class-specific abilities would be nice (make the Guardian a bit more notable, mainly)

 

I can't remember what all I've mentioned before, but here's my list:

 

--Monster and item encyclopedia, sorta like what's implemented in say-- the Castlevania series (e.g. entries are unlockable once you defeat the monster or pick up the item for the first time-- Item drops are listed after you get at least one from the monster-- in all likelihood, for story purposes, the standard/rogue creation and its stats-- minus item drops-- should already be entered at the start of the game, with variations-- e.g. pit bred cryoa-- being locked until you kill one)

 

--Optional Romance options which develop throughout the game, as mentioned above, you'd have to enable it at the beginning of the game. Additional option to enable same-sex romance options (perhaps even more interesting is if, with obvious extreme difficulty, you can possibly end up with a love triangle, LOL. Seems like Greta would be more likely to swing that way than Alwan, so it'd probably be a bit easier to end up with her in a same sex relationship than him.)

 

--ABSOLUTE MUST: Ability to choose gender for any class (female guardians, male agents, etc.)

 

--A small number of class-specific and gender-specific optional quests. (bonus: Agent one where LOL, it's only an option if both Alwan and Greta are in your party, and they have to distract some people while you sneak into so-and-so's office or something. And by distract, I mean they have to dress formally *going to be a disaster with Greta* And...

...

...

pretend to be a couple.

Also a second femalePC-only one where you have to infiltrate a harem or some other womens' only place, and if Alwan is with you, he has to dress in drag. Man that would be hilarious!)

 

--Ability to chat with party members in a non-annoying/intrusive way (e.g. right click on character to see health/etc., with a small text that says "right click again to chat" or something like that) Would be mostly for flavor-- I could imagine a few rare instances where talking to Alwan or Greta at the right time will get you a special item-- Though my understanding of the code is limited and I'm mostly programming-illiterate, it seems like it wouldn't be difficult to implement some code that affects what they say when you chat with them in certain rooms/within certain areas on the zone (e.g. have them react to the parasitized drayk of the Crumbling Labs when you're in its holding cell. I'm sure both will find the experience quite unpleasant) With most places (outside of towns) giving them one of like 2 default responses (e.g. "you make idle chat with Greta" or "Alwan isn't in a talkative mood right now" or something like that. Maybe as a little goodie have the creations give random mundane responses such as "You get the creation to perform a trick" when you click on one of your creations or "The Fyora snaps at a butterfly as it flutters by" etc)

 

--Ability to make deletable edits to the maps-- e.g. if you find a chest that you don't have the living tools for, and you want to mark it on the map so that you'll remember it later, or a mark on the map where you had to dump your junk before battle so that you're not weighed down.

 

--Treat Alwan and Greta as full characters rather than 0-cost creations in human form.

 

More as I think of them. Definitely the most important of these by far is the choose-your-gender option regardless of class.

[Hyena of Ice]

Hmm... Actually, on second thought, I could possibly see wanting a skill tree in certain forms. Class based for the player, provided nothing is removed from the regular stats and abilities (e.g. battle magic, fire shaping, etc.)

Note that these all apply to G3.

 

1. FOR PLAYER CHARACTER AND ALWAN/GRETA IF THEY ARE MADE INTO FULL CHARACTERS

Some class-based skill tree similar (but not the same as) to the one in the Avadon series. This would be in addition to the base stats and abilities, and would be class-based.

Aside from some extra abilities, it would have to be some minor boosts. I hope the overall mechanics (missile weapon damage being much more effective primarily) remains the same. With the exception of making the vlish physically weaker like it is in previous games.

 

Examples: (note: ones that say "functions as a spell" at the end mean that they use up SP and possibly also essence)

 

GUARDIAN

--Shima's Whirlwind (Blade Training) *Functions as a spell*

--Nathalie's Ward Mastery or something similar

--Ability that removes mind-affecting statuses on an ally (since one does not exist in G3), at higher levels, affects all allies. *functions as a spell, uses both SP and EP*

--Sevilin's lv. 1 and 6 War Cry *Functions as a spell*

--Sevilin's Path of the Shield

--The +5%/level to hit one adjacent enemy from Sevilin's Melee Training

--Multi-target baton attack *functions as a spell*

--5% chance/level to add slow status to lance attack

--Shield Bash (+5%/level chance to damage enemy when parrying a melee attack)

--maybe something like Mirror Shield (+5%/level chance to reflect parried missile damage back at opponent)

--Spell/ability to remove stat effects on self, using Healing Craft as a base. *functions as a spell, uses both SP and EP*

 

AGENT

--Lockpicking enhancement

--Bonus SP recovery (minor amount)

--slight increase to battle magic damage for weaker spells (Ice Bolt and lower or searer and lower)

--A special poison bolt attack (seriously, if you look at the script, some enemies even late in the game lack a defense against poison, but end-of-round poison damage sucks. *obviously, functions as a spell. Uses both SP and EP*

--Buff that adds +2% Fire/Cold/Energy defense per level.

--Multi-target baton attack (same as Guardian) *functions as a spell*

 

SHAPER

--meh, can't think of much-- obviously they'd mostly be a healing spell focus and creation boosts.

--Ability that removes mind-affecting statuses on an ally (since one does not exist in G3), at higher levels, affects all allies. (same as Guardian's ability) *functions as a spell. Uses both SP and EP*

--Spell that gives all allies the shaper's fire/cold/stun/mind affect/etc. resistances, uses Blessing Magic as a base (mixed blessing obviously-- some creations have high innate defenses to some damage types, and the spell will lower their stun resistance) Most useful in damage zones. *functions as a spell. Uses both SP and EP*

--Increases to creation stats (via skill points) uses slightly less essence/level (like, 2 or 5 or something) Would have to be pretty high up in the skill tree.

 

As you can see, excepting the Guardian (who needs it), most of the skill tree entries I mentioned are fairly minor. How powerful they can get would also depend on the level cap. The guardian is now quite a force to be reckoned with.

 

Alwan and Greta would need a different skill tree if they remain as 0-cost creations in the remake I'm drawing a blank right now except that it would include all the stuff from the Agent and Guardian trees. Oh, yeah.,

 

Alwan:

--Self-healing ability-- at higher levels, removes status effects on himself.

--Baton attack (getting enhancements from NPCs at certain points in the game, with the second upgrade being acid thorns. Requires no thorns but uses SP.)

--Lance attack (doesn't need lances, but uses SP)

--Buffing ability-- casts war blessing + protection + mental barrier on himself. + haste at higher levels.

--+5%/level chance to counterattack a melee attack

 

Greta

--Should keep the weaker spells when she upgrades (e.g. option to switch to firebolt or searer when she upgrades to energy orbs)

--+ damage/level bonus to attack spells

--Buff that adds +5% fire/cold/energy/poison/acid/mental resistance per level

--Baton attack (same as Alwan's)

 

CREATIONS

--Add 2 or 5% stun/fire/cold/energy/poison/acid/mental resistance per level

--+2 HP/level regeneration bonus

--Certain creations add extra damage type to their attacks (e.g. Fyora adds fire damage to melee attack like what weapons get from a runed ruby)

[Mechalibur]

I've only played the first two, but I've had a few ideas.

 

For both:

 

Updated graphics and UI (especially in regards to the inventory system)

More areas/quests, or even expanding old areas into two parts (Goettsch, for example, could have a separate dungeon you need to go through to get the Shaper Gloves)

Creature balance changes to make the less useful ones usable.

Maybe a revision to the stun system? At the very least the game should tell you how many AP is lost whenever you stun an enemy.

Battle disciplines similar to A:EftP could be cool. Maybe unlocking them is a new skill.

Dynamic boss fights (like A:EftP)

Maybe the ability to infiltrate certain sects without first having to drop the one you're in. For example, in GF2, getting the permission of Zakary to join the Awakened/Barzhites in order to infiltrate their research centers.

 

Geneforge 1:

Adding the spells from 2. Canisters for them could be in new zones, or existing canisters can be redistributed to accommodate new abilities.

Adding trainers, which would also help with the above. A few should be neutral, some should expand if you join the right sect, and some should require joining their sect (like the Takers probably wouldn't allow non-Takers to even learn basic skills)

The new creations in GF2 should *not* be added, however, since they were a part of the story of GF2.

Different ending if you kill Goettsch and Trajkov, but don't use or destroy the Geneforge. Right now it gives you the same ending if you destroy it.

Change in ending based on how many canisters you've used, maybe?

Danette's spirit in the Shaper Tombs should probably have some dialogue. She could reveal a lot of information.

 

Geneforge 2:

Trainers should be able to give 2 level ups in skills regardless of if you received a bonus elsewhere. This was fixed in GF3 I think?

Maybe some way for unaligned or loyalist shapers to create the T4 creatures. Maybe not though... it does make the decision to join a sect a lot more interesting.

It would be cool if we could get to know Shanti a little more (platonically, I mean )

Casting unlock should give exp similar to using living tools.

After an NPC joins your party, and they leave, maybe they could go back somewhere for you to talk to afterward.

 

Things I'm ambivalent about:

Being able to pick either gender for classes

Romances (especially in the first 2 games, they'd be a bit out of place)

More classes

[JustifiedGlory]

Because of the boring piece of crap I am and with playing Skyrim and all I want to settle down and maybe do special bounty missions. Maybe things other than always saving the world.

[priumcyaes]

• The ability to hide certain quests from the quest log. Or at least the ability to organize them. When prioritizing quests, I've found that I've often had to write down which ones I was going to do first, etc.... on a separate piece of paper. Not as horrible as I sometimes make it out to be, but sorting through the quest log looking for a specific one can get aggravating (especially if you're like me, and you take on too many side quests and let them pile up).
  
• Updated graphics (but that goes without saying, doesn't it?), if 1-3 are going to be remade. Speaking of the remakes -- which ones will be remade? I was assuming 1 through 3 would eventually be tackled, or at least 1 through 2. Probably not 4 and 5, but I don't know. I'm a recent arrival. Hoping that we do get to 3, but that's probably because of my personal bias for it (it was the first Spiderweb game I'd even encountered, hence some sentimentality for it).
  
• Junk bag. Junk bag. Definitely a junk bag.
  
• I'll echo a sentiment previously stated in the threads and say that our companions in GF3 should be treated more as people and less as creations (but that's just me being sad that I couldn't give them all the extra armor and junk I found in the game).
  
• No creation romancing. Please.
  
• Unpopular opinion (?) time -- I actually wouldn't like the stat tree from Avadon/A:EFTP being included in the Geneforge games. But that's also mostly personal bias against it (I've always found stat trees difficult).
  

[Catoblepas]

• No import of the stat tree from Avadon. I strongly dislike it. I find it highly constraining and I don't think it would mesh well with the spirit of hunting for trainers/canisters/tomes the game has.
  
• Junk Bag. I'd like it if 90% of the junk wasn't reduced to having a value of zero though.
  
• Some way to gather money/experience if you are stuck on a part and can't advance. An arena or something like that would be ideal. I never use javelins or batons because money is always so scarce...a painfully finite resource.
  
• Companions that stick around longer and act more like characters (equipment, skills) instead of creations.
  
• While we are at it, some way of boosting our creation through weapons or equipment? I think Alphas and Betas sometimes drop chitin armor, and it makes sense for a Thahd to wield a club. make a use for those axes we find, eh?
  
• No recharge time for spells or abilities please! fighting fire-immune enemies in Avadon was a real chore as a Sorceress. If we have the Energy and Essence, let us cast it!
  
• More endings, branching paths, new sidequests etc!
  
• Romance is fine, although I don't see where it would fit in really, outside of Geneforge 3, really. I thought it was handled well enough in Avadon.
  
• Perhaps some more ambiguity to the 'canon' endings in the various games? I know the Geneforge games are never going to have an import feature, but perhaps something like how KOTOR 2 let the player set the gender and alignment of the character from the first game through a casual in-game conversation? I liked how Geneforge 4 kept it up in the air for most of the game who the hero of Geneforge 3 worked for,(letting me still picture my G3 character as being pro-shaper,despite the loss of the isles) and was sad that all that got thrown away in the last parts of the game.
  

[Hyena of Ice]

• Unpopular opinion (?) time -- I actually wouldn't like the stat tree from Avadon/A:EFTP being included in the Geneforge games. But that's also mostly personal bias against it (I've always found stat trees difficult).
  

 

That doesn't appear to be an unpopular opinion so far-- I don't want to see it either, and a few others here have stated the same-- only one person so far has said they want it. I'd love a junk bag, but at the same time, I like the mundane objects weighing a person down-- okay, I don't, but I also don't want to see it go away like it has in newer games.

 

But seriously, I would like to see some melee techniques like in the newer avernum games, only they wouldn't cause fatigue-- instead they would cost spell points, and a few would cost essence. Would make the Guardians much more formidable-- Agents and Shapers also get a few. Ones I've come up with:

 

--Hamstring (causes Slow-- 3 melee weapons, 3 healing craft)

--Devastating Pin (couldn't come up with a good name-- javelin attack that immobilizes the opponent. Requires 5 missile weapons, uses strength instead of dex for damage and success rate.)

--Whirlwind Blade (as per the newer games-- hits all enemies within 2 or 3 spaces of the user with a sword attack. Requires 7 melee weapons, 5 quick action)

--Blade Dance (similar to Whirlwind Blade, but only adjacent opponents, and uses DEX instead of STR-- good for Agents who get surrounded. Requires 3 melee weapons, 3 quick action.)

--Venom Lance (similar to Searer, but inflicts DIRECT poison damage-- some of the monsters late in the game actually are weak to poison. Prereq. 3 spellcraft, 5 battle mag, and access to a lv. 3 or higher Battle Magic spell *searer or later*)

--Aura of Cold (as aura of flames, but cold damage-- Needs 5 spellcraft, 7 battle magic, and at least 1 rank of aura of flames.)

--Life Transfer (give up HP to another ally. Not that great, but possibly good for agents. Requires a mere 2 healing craft, 3 spellcraft. Ranks based on spellcraft, alone.)

--Energy Transfer (OH YEAH! Give Spell Energy to an adjacent ally-- 25+ 5 per level of spellcraft (For example, with 5 ranks in spellcraft, Greta, if hasted, could transfer bet. 30~100 SP to another character) Requires 2 or 3 ranks of spellcraft. At last, a way to recover spell energy!)

--Share Resistance (Gives creations the resistances *but not armor* of the caster. Requirements are steep-- 7 fire shaping, 7 battle shaping, and 7 magic shaping. This is a mixed blessing as some of the shaper's resistances will be lower than the creation's *for example, Rotghoroths have an Acid and Poison resistance of like 80 or 90%.)

--Infuse Baton (poison and acid batons inflict straight- up poison or acid damage instead of physical-- submission batons are unchanged except for 1/3 chance of inflicting slow. Requires 5 missile weapons, 3 spellcraft)

--Spined Shield (creates a "steel spine" effect. Steel spines on equipment enhance this ability. Uses level of shield + Parry as a base, requires 7 parry, 7 melee weapons.)

--Rallying Cry (Removes all mind-affecting conditions on entire party-- requires 5 leadership, 5 healing craft, 3 melee weapons. Uses leadership as a base.)

 

The G3 fic I'm coming up with, I gave the characters stuff like this as well, in addition to Avernum-style disciplines (making the skill tree for the above techniques a bit different) One of the Guardian-centered abilities not listed above is Shield Bash-- though it is mostly for flavor as I don't picture it having any use in the actual game (it is powered off of the protection of the shield as weapon base level + parry ranks + strength) The disciplines include riposte, counterattack (uses full attack power, but does not block the attack, and most often works against a more devastating blow) mirror shield (reflects ranged fire/cold/energy/poison/acid attacks back at the attacker-- Alwan doesn't have it yet though), dual wielding (Greta has a few ranks in it) and "Crafting" (no in-game use-- gives the user ability to maintain and repair equipment. Alwan's stuff does get bashed up, and you can just imagine how the leather armor straps would fare in the swamps of Harmony Isle...) Which just made me think of something for forging items in my fic...

 

• While we are at it, some way of boosting our creation through weapons or equipment? I think Alphas and Betas sometimes drop chitin armor, and it makes sense for a Thahd to wield a club. make a use for those axes we find, eh?
  

Yeah, I suggested this earlier, thinking back to the JRPG Saga Frontier, where the monster race could only equip accessories (rings, necklaces, charms) Make a ring called "Collar of Loyalty" or something like that which boosts mind effect resistance.

 

I vehemently agree that there shouldn't be a fatigue for spells like in Avadon-- it would prettymuch make Agents impotent.

[Hyena of Ice]

One note about creation romance though--- In G3, if you fail to convince Litalia not to attack her, she makes an ambiguous comment about Akhari Blaze making her do his dirty with ending with "Me, his..." Though very ambiguous, it looks to me like she was about to admit to having a romantic relationship with Akhari Blaze... not really sure how that would work on a physical level O_o

[ThricebornPhoenix]

I would rather not see creation equipment. It would complicate things, and I don't think it would add much. I think a better way to upgrade creations would be, well, genetically (in keeping with the theme of the series). Perhaps training and canisters provide 'genetic switches' with stat and/or ability modifiers, allowing actual creation customisation. The rarely-used stat point upgrades of the current system could, I think, be folded into this hypothetical one pretty easily, as could upgraded forms like the cryoa. If trainers and canisters provided specific options, it could make certain canister-based decisions more meaningful while also giving a reason to use a trainer even if there are 3+ canisters.

 

I don't really expect anything quite so ambitious, but one can dream.

[Mechalibur]

I think in general, I'd like a change to how levelling up creations worked. They get experience based on the rate you get it, regardless of what level they are compared to what you're fighting. This means if your high level vlish dies, it's going to more difficult to level up the next one because you'll have to fight comparatively higher level monsters for the same exp. I think I'd like one of the following changes:

 

1. Creations get exp separately from the shaper, based on what level creatures they fight. So a level 3 fyora would get experience after killing a level 3 enemy, even if the shaper himself wouldn't.

 

2. Instead of getting exp, the strength of your creation is based on your shaping level, skill in that individual creation, and any equipment/story bonuses. As it is currently, levelling up your battle shaping or Create Thad skill won't give any bonus whatsoever to thads that you already have created.

 

3. Strength of creations is improved based on your character level, so that you don't have to keep track of the exp of each individual creation you have.

[Hyena of Ice]

I would rather not see creation equipment. It would complicate things,

 

Hmm, now that you mention it, you're right, when you consider the PC equipment that boosts creation stats.

Also, I agree 100% with separate level-by-exp rates (I was actually going to bring that up if you didn't)

The other stuff I'm not sure on.

[Catoblepas]

I don't think creations should have access to all equipment the PC can use, but I think weapons and armor would be enough, at least for the battle creations such as Thahds and battle betas. Even if they were rather limited in what they could equip.

 

I think it would be interesting if we had a way of monetarily investing in our creations, and using some of that spare loot we acquire to outfit them.

 

It's lore friendly too...since Betas at the very least can wear chitin armor. Not to large of a stretch to imagine they could use a club or an axe as well.

[Hyena of Ice]

^^Actually, they don't WEAR the chitin armor, it's part of their bodies-- I know this is mentioned somewhere in some of the games.

They do wear chain mail however-- or perhaps that's supposed to be part of their body as well.

[priumcyaes]

Hrm. Could've sworn that it mentioned in one of the games that chitin armor was flimsy and made out of animal carapace -- it didn't specify which animal. Though I might not remember correctly. Need to go back and play the games again. Though built-in armor does sound like something that would have happened over time. Though come to think of it, I do remember battle betas in the fifth game that threw some kind of weapon at the PC. Spears? Javelins? Something like that. I'll have to go back and check that.

 

It's not a stretch to imagine that they could wear armor (although I can't imagine trying to get that to work out), but I don't think it's gonna be implemented in any of the remakes. Managing creation inventories could get tedious -- plus there's the fact that we could just use them as walking backpacks to store less favored armor and weapons.

 

Naw, I don't think the creations we make out of essence will get armor, weapons, or inventories. The companions (human/servile) we pick up through the games are another matter, but in light of the fact that the game treats them as creations, it could really go any way for them in the remakes.

[Mechalibur]

Battle Alphas often drop chain mail instead of chitin armor, so I think it's safe to assume they can wear armor (or they just like carrying it around for some reason)

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

You could wonder why a battle alpha would carry around a human sized chain mail suit that obviously doesn't fit him, but maybe they have their own uses for it

[Hyena of Ice]

^^To be fair, your character is probably doing the same thing. I mean imagine Dakro finding his first iron mail for free, but it's designed for a lady guardian...

[Hyena of Ice]

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Also, I haven't played G4 and 5 yet-- are all the things worth 4 gp or more still sellable in G4 and G5? I hope they are, and that any remakes are as well instead of what we have in Avadon, the Avernum remakes, and A6 where only a few mundane objects can be sold

 

If so, I figured out Geneforge-esque prices for several items from the Avadon and newer Avernum titles (and still adding more)

 

--Abacus: Unable to decide just yet-- either 12 or 15, probably.

--Bag of Charcoal: 25

--Bag of Sugar: 30 (still not 100% decided on this one since sugar is likely to be very expensive in Avernum)

--Bellows: I honestly can't decide just yet-- either 8 or 12.

--Chisel: 2

--Gold Nugget: 180 gp (raw math by comparing G5 to A2 remake gold bar prices)

--Hoe: 4 (don't make it 8-- hoes/plows can be made by combining a pole with recycled metal-- I mean there's mention of it in the Bible, turning swords into plowshares)

--Mortar & Pestle: 12

--Rake: Depends on whether Jeff decides it it metal or wood based. Wood = 3, metal = 8

--Vise: 5

--Weights: 12

 

If A4+ and Avadon gems were included, then they would likely be closest to A4 prices (Emerald 200, Ruby 300... and comparing to the gem prices in Avadon... Sapphire 80 *same as beautiful crystal in G4/5*)

 

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[Hobo Elf]

I'd like to see the Geneforge series get rebalanced, maybe change positions for the high level Creations so that they are available a little bit earlier (maybe this will make them more useful?). I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but each time I press tab, go into my inventory filled with items or if the screen gets cluttered with units the performance gets choppy and starts to crawl, so I'd like this to be fixed as well.

[Spukrian]

Hrm. Could've sworn that it mentioned in one of the games that chitin armor was flimsy and made out of animal carapace -- it didn't specify which animal.

IIRC it is said that chitin armor is from a "creation specificially bred for this purpose", without describing the creation.

 

Also, I haven't played G4 and 5 yet-- are all the things worth 4 gp or more still sellable in G4 and G5? I hope they are, and that any remakes are as well instead of what we have in Avadon, the Avernum remakes, and A6 where only a few mundane objects can be sold

Everything woth 4 gp or more could be sold, however the value of some items change, i.e. some things you could sell in earlier games are worthless in GF4 and GF5.

[Nim]

IIRC it is said that chitin armor is from a "creation specificially bred for this purpose", without describing the creation.

Pretty much correct. From G3

text2 = "Now you should probably get and wear some armor. You recall that there is a suit of chitin armor in the cabinet near the door.";

text3 = "Chitin armor is flimsy stuff, made from the carapace of a creature created for this purpose by the Shapers. It's cheaper than leather or metal, and not as protective.

[Hyena of Ice]

It has also been stated in more than one game that battle alphas have a chitinous carapace or skin (can't remember which)

[adc.]

Well, if it's chitin, I'd vote for clawbugs, because they have the same color and clawbugs are bugs.

 

But I don't really know if I've heard of battle alphas having a chitinous skin, the graphic seems to be like furry humanoids?

 

Oh and one more suggestion, Jeff should add like stealth improvement, because stealth is fun but it's overlooked in the games and leaving a carnage behind is much practical than sneaking about.