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honglath

Dedrik's Quest [Spoilers]

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So it's either don't kill them and Dedrik pouts at you forever or kill them and Dedrik regrets it afterwards?

I don't like this quest. Is there a way to satisfy both sides or it's just a kill/don't kill type of thing?

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Can't say for this game specifically, but for most spiderweb games there aren't any perfect solutions to the problems in the game. The solutions are usually binary and neither one is really particularly good.

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Sigh... Fine. I'll play the next game as a bloodthirsty psycopath whose favourite pasttime is killing people for no reason, so i can laugh in Dedrik's face when he starts moping about killing them.

 

Edit: Oh, and thank you.

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As in, if you DON'T have the quest active but you provoke the guards?

 

I think you can slaughter all of those on the outside, but I didn't try to enter the building after that fight (which was very difficult at my level when I provoked 'em).

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I believe what happens is that their leader won't spawn until you actually have the quest, so you can kill everyone else but you still have to go back in there to finish him off.

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Thanks for responding. I do have the quest. I am mid it and i don't like what is developing. Was wondering what the consequences were if I turn Dedrik down and don't do the quest.

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Dedrik will be upset with you, and will be less helpful if you ever need a big favour from him later.

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I found this quest very unsatisfying.

I know that the game wants you to face situations where you choose between A and B.

But with quests like these it’s more like “Do you want to take this quests and get XP, Rewards and a Happy party member or not?” And while the “not” would be the option I personally would have chosen if this was reality, in the game it feels like punishment for doing the right thing because you gain nothing.

 

In addition I don’t think it was written very well. First Dedrik thinks killing all these people has to be done but it would be fine if you decide otherwise (and in the next screen he says that he will never be your friend then). Then during slaughtering all the people Dedrik starts whining about having chosen to kill them. Then in the dialogue with the boss I wanted to let them go and Dedrik suddenly changed his opinion again and started the battle. And after the battle, Dedrik is sad again that he killed them all.

Either this is bad writing or Dedrik is a real psycho.

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Judging by what I've seen, he's not the only one in the game who acts indecisive at the decision point -- looking to you for the decision -- but gets upset if he doesn't like it. That's pretty common in human beings, in my experience. I personally liked having the choice. One nice thing about the level cap is that you *don't* have to take quests you disagree with just to get XP, because you're going to max out at level 30 way before the end of the game anyway. (And you'll find more than enough good items to equip your party even if you skip lots of optional quests.) I ended up helping Dedrik but I justified it to myself in pact security terms. Those Kva mercenaries were there for one purpose only, and that was to support the Kva in an upcoming Pact civil war, and maybe even provoke that war once they were strong enough to do it (as they were already helping to do just by their presence). I treated them the same way I treated the Wyldrylm rebels...as enemies to the security of the pact, to be destroyed.

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The final decision point irked me, because after leaving every decision up to me, at that last moment, Dedrik decided to go all homicidal maniac DESPITE what I said I'd do. Honestly, if there had been an option to side with the Monitor and execute Dedrik, I might have taken it out of sheer pique. (Forget justice!)

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It just could've been designed/written better. You could have been given the option to research what actual laws are being broken, and what punishment is applicable. Could've at least tried to get the backing of some Heart in Avadon. The mercs don't care about what Avadon says anyway but that would at least justify things on your end. Could've been given the chance to talk to their leader. Could've been given the chance to give Dedrik a well-deserved slap instead. Whatever the mercenaries' purpose for being there was, I don't think wholesale slaughter is justified, much less IMMEDIATE wholesale slaughter as proposed by that Wyldrylm shaman (forgot his name) because they haven't really done anything yet. Hell, the main character could've been given a much smarter dialogue than "aren't you breaking laws...?". Instead he has to be so clueless that even the blademaster guard crushes his pathetic attempt at an argument. Even a simple "You are disrupting the peace just by being here > Leave or I will be forced > Then you leave me no choice" would've been more satisfying.

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I think that would've been out of step with the flavor of the adventure. You've been thrown into the world with some very tough assignments to do and a mandate to do other jobs on the side (mercenary and similar work) as long as you don't commit treason. There isn't a set of rules that outright forbids or allows these side quests and gives you an easy answer. If there were that would kind of defeat the point.

 

So instead you must use your judgment. Do you want to please Hand Callan, walk the straight and narrow, and act the way the current Avadon regime likes best? Or do you want to retain the personal loyalty of your companions, and if so, can you justify the semi-disloyalty each of these side quests entails? It's precisely because the rules are so fuzzy on the margins that you can justify these quests if you are of a mind to...and it fits well into the theme of personal loyalty versus state security and other principles. I like it.

 

You get other options in other places if you want to betray the Pact outright (or at least I've seen a couple of options I didn't take that pointed that way), and you get other options in other places if you want to support the Pact but subvert Avadon.

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Judging by what I've seen, he's not the only one in the game who acts indecisive at the decision point -- looking to you for the decision -- but gets upset if he doesn't like it. That's pretty common in human beings, in my experience. I personally liked having the choice. One nice thing about the level cap is that you *don't* have to take quests you disagree with just to get XP, because you're going to max out at level 30 way before the end of the game anyway. (And you'll find more than enough good items to equip your party even if you skip lots of optional quests.) I ended up helping Dedrik but I justified it to myself in pact security terms. Those Kva mercenaries were there for one purpose only, and that was to support the Kva in an upcoming Pact civil war, and maybe even provoke that war once they were strong enough to do it (as they were already helping to do just by their presence). I treated them the same way I treated the Wyldrylm rebels...as enemies to the security of the pact, to be destroyed.

 

 

I think this is a bad example of that sort of design. The class-specific equipment that you get from the character side quests is often some of the best you can acquire for that class in the whole game; this is especially frustrating if you're playing the same class as the party member in question, at which point if you're playing on higher difficulty levels you're essentially locked in to siding with your party member. I think Jeff has even derided this decision (characterization v. in-game benefits) on his blog in the past. I like Avadon 2 a lot in most respects, but if there's any lesson he didn't learn from the first game...

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I think this is a bad example of that sort of design. The class-specific equipment that you get from the character side quests is often some of the best you can acquire for that class in the whole game; this is especially frustrating if you're playing the same class as the party member in question, at which point if you're playing on higher difficulty levels you're essentially locked in to siding with your party member. I think Jeff has even derided this decision (characterization v. in-game benefits) on his blog in the past. I like Avadon 2 a lot in most respects, but if there's any lesson he didn't learn from the first game...

 

Well, he also made a blog post complaining about how you spend the first dungeon of every RPG as some nobody fighting rats, and then made you fight increasingly powerful rats on and off throughout pretty much the entirety of Avadon 2, so. Jeff is maybe not always the best at sticking to resolutions.

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I don't see it that way -- I actually am playing a shaman on Torment and I had seen how good the tinkermage item was for the first side quest, but whether I'd find such an item didn't even enter into my thinking for this one. And I don't say the item I found wasn't nice, but it's not the kind of item that makes or breaks my ability to win the game, even on Torment. There's more than enough good stuff floating around for every class that the game doesn't really pressure you into side quests just to find items.

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This quest was terrible. On my playthrough I had already destroyed the entire Kva encampment way early on in the game. They threatened and goaded me into attacking them. The PC even makes a remark saying something like "I guess they were serious about not crossing that line.".

 

That alone was grounds for a Hand of Avadon to tear that whole place up. So when I actually received the quest I was surprised to see there wasn't an option to tell the Shaman "Don't worry, I already killed those encroaching on your land." I thought to myself, either this quest is broken since I cleared that place out, or I have to go back there and trigger something. So upon going back I have to run through an entire area I already cleared out to find a monitor hiding upstairs.

 

It was just not handled well at all and it gets played off like you butchered a village full of innocent women and children. How was there no dialogue option to tell Heart Callan "We tried to negotiate with Kva operating out of a suspicious outpost but were attacked for walking on land they didn't own."

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How was there no dialogue option to tell Heart Callan "We tried to negotiate with Kva operating out of a suspicious outpost but were attacked for walking on land they didn't own."

 

I don't think this would make a big difference...Heart Callan would probably treat that as you making excuses rather than having a valid reason (after all, if you were attacked you could always run away instead of clearing the whole place out down to the last monitor). And no way would she engage you in debate. She's concerned with the effect on other Pact members (specifically the Kva-ians who treat it as a sign of favoritism in the brewing civil war) rather than how wrong the mercs were to be there in the first place.

 

As with all the companion side quests, it's up to you to decide if doing this is justified. If you go to Callan and report that one of your companions wants to do any of them, she'll give you her views in no uncertain terms. So it sets up the same basic dilemma as the others...are you going to be loyal not only to the pact and the idea of Avadon, but to Callan and Redbeard and their wishes? Or do you have some other priorities?

 

Obviously a CRPG as opposed to a tabletop RPG is always going to have less flexibility, but given Callan's inflexible views on all these side quests, I doubt she would let you get out three words of why you thought they were justified, no matter which kind of game this was.

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I really don't see how it's the same as the other companion quests, though. They each present you with a clearly defined choice like you stated. Dedrik's quest I happened to technically complete on my own. All because about 10 levels prior I was attacked while investigating after an NPC told me there was suspicious activiity going on there.

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All because about 10 levels prior I was attacked while investigating after an NPC told me there was suspicious activiity going on there.

 

As a Hand of Avadon, I can go anywhere and do anything in the name of the Pact. Leaders of nations would hesitate to oppose my most appalling act, and even powerful old dragons fear my anger. I assert my intention to enter a camp, and before I have a chance to act on that intention, the Kva warriors attack me. Honestly, I expected to find evidence that they were working as spies for Dheless, or at least running illegal drugs. Something, anything, to explain this wild and suicidal overreaction.

 

But no. Apparently they only had Lynaeus Fever, a form of madness characterized mainly by a desire to claim the land of others through violence while playing the victim and blaming Avadon for all their woes. The only known cure is death (the malady which cures all other ailments).

 

They had no Scrolls of Resurrection. :(

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So I went and killed 'em all (took few attempts due infinite spawns) and afterwards talking with Dedrik in Avadon he says he will act as drone for now on (due bloodshed) and after talking with Tiribon (something like that) he is happy. Will he act normally now or should I do something otherwise?

 

Hearts didn't mind much that I killed few Kvans and Redbeard wasn't unhappy either.

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So I went and killed 'em all (took few attempts due infinite spawns) and afterwards talking with Dedrik in Avadon he says he will act as drone for now on (due bloodshed) and after talking with Tiribon (something like that) he is happy. Will he act normally now or should I do something otherwise?

 

It sounds like you've now successfully secured Dedrik's loyalty and don't need to do anything more for him.

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ok but he's saying that he will act as drone now sounded weird, replayed it by 1st going to report to Tiribon then talking to Dedrik he didn't talk about being drone for now on.

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What area are the mercenaries in the Kva Riverlands?I have not found them even though that section of the game has been thoroughly explored in the past.

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The mercenaries are passed the point where you were turned back by guards in the south of the center.

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