Best Spiderweb Game??

[Vexivero]

I'm asking because I've been away for years and years. During my childhood I played all 4 exile games, Avernum 1-3, and Geneforge 1-3. I think I might have even played Avernum 4 a little bit too, but not extensively. However, I haven't played spiderweb games in probably 5+ years, and it seems like there's some cool ones out since my hiatus. So....any recommendations on the best one in your opinion? Even if it's one I've already played. I'm way too busy to play them all, which is why I'm asking for your guys recommendations on the best ones

 

—Vexivero, who has his own personal signature

[Lilith]

If you enjoyed Geneforge 1-3, then Geneforge 4 and 5 are significant improvements on the Geneforge engine, and wrap up the plot nicely. I suppose you could skip 4 and go straight to 5 if you're just looking for closure on the series.

 

As far as the Avernum trilogy goes, Avernum 4 is honestly pretty skippable. Avernum 5 gets mixed reviews: it tries to stretch out the feeling of exploring uninhabited hostile territory like Dark Waters from Avernum 2 into a whole game, but has the Star Trek Voyager problem where in practice the areas you're exploring still have to be pretty inhabited because otherwise you'd run out of things to do. The structure of the plot and setting also means that A5 is quite linear, if that's a problem for you. Avernum 6 is a big, relatively open-ended game that provides a solid sendoff to the series, although parts of the second half bog down a bit.

 

Avernum: Escape from the Pit is a remake of Avernum 1. Yes, that makes it a remake of a remake. It has some minor plot additions, and a significant gameplay overhaul with influences from Spiderweb's newest franchise, Avadon (on which I'll say more below). Try the demo if you want to revisit the first game in the series one more time.

 

Somebody is sure to recommend Nethergate (or its remake, Nethergate: Resurrection, which is substantially the same plotwise but has some gameplay differences and may be easier to get running on modern computers). It was out back when you were around, so I assume if you haven't played it by now you aren't particularly interested. Still, if the premise of the game grabs you, try the demo.

 

As I mentioned above, Avadon is Spiderweb's newest series, and it's a bit of an experiment in some ways. The plot is significantly more linear (and shorter!) than the average Spiderweb game, although the structure does make it easy to revisit old areas for sidequests. Instead of building a faceless party, you build a single character and choose from a selection of NPC allies to accompany you (you still get to control them in battle and choose what stats and skills to invest in, but each one belongs to a fixed character class that determines what skills they have available). Also, a sequel to Avadon is coming out at the end of this month.

[adc.]

 

Definition of Geneforge Postulate

 

For any Shaper, the measure of the whole Geneforge Pool is equal to the sum of the measures of Zwei's fragmented sanity.

 

Who could dislike Geneforge? I mean seriously, you could join sides! JOIN SIDES! BE A DOUBLE AGENT, BE GOOD OR EVIL, RECEIVE BENEFITS ETC.!!! Avadon is almost like Geneforge, but I don't see any rebellion.

-----

-Nightwatcher

[Earth]

*sends Gladwell after Zwei*

[Mod.]

Geneforge 1 and Avernum 3 are probably the most highly regarded games, and Nethergate is definately worth a try if you haven't yet. I recommend playing the early geneforges again, especially if you haven't played them in a while and want to play the newer ones.

[Triumph]

Welcome!

 

Nethergate: Resurrection is my favorite SW game of all. Of the other later games, my favorite is Avernum 6.

[keira]

Edited October 19, 2013 by drone riots
in before tyranicus posts the nethergate image

[Kelandon]

Given what you've played, I'd probably recommend Geneforge 4 and Geneforge 5 to finish out the series, or Nethergate (original or remake) or Avadon for something new.

 

If you only have time for one short game, play Avadon. It's short by Spidweb standards but very good. If you have time for one long game, play Geneforge 4. It's Geneforge-sized and equally good.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the Second Avernum Trilogy. Avernum 4 was okay. Avernum 5 was a little better. Avernum 6 is pretty good, but skipping straight from 3 to 6 is a little jarring.

[Luca]

I submit, as always, that the best SW game is Geneforge 2 for no other reason than it was a game with a great feel. I liked the landscape, I liked the factions and their respective higher institutions built into the hills. It felt like real people doing real things if this situation was actually to happen. This is what they were able to build for themselves, and this is what it takes to keep it going. It was a great story and it had by far the best characters. The drawback is that it is, admittedly, more clunky than the newer Geneforges (although I still maintain that 1 & 2's inventory system was better for me, personally), and you miss even the small graphical changes like spell effects once you go without them, but it's still the best.

 

That said, I can't condone just going off and buying Geneforge 2 without playing Geneforge 1. In any series, I have a hard time saying it's ever okay to start in the middle...because it's not. You can't just pick up Harry Potter at the sixth book because you're missing half the point of reading it. But for Geneforge, the first and second one are tied together and feature many of the same characters, just at different stages. Notwithstanding that Geneforge 2 takes place solely because of the reasons in Genefoge 1. Three and four are connected in a similar fashion. So the only reasonable starting points for the Geneforge series are 1, 3, or 5.

 

If you've already played up to three, you should finish the story off, there's no reason not to. I'm not as big of a fan of four, but five is ace. At least play that one if nothing else. After that, I'm not entirely sure. I bought EftP, and I have to say, I kinda liked Avernum 1 better. It was just missing a quest log and a little more structure. I also bought Avadon, but in retrospect I have no idea why. It becomes rather difficult to tolerate and I'm pretty sure the reason for it being the best seller to date is because of visibility from Steam. I've been against continuing the Avernum/Exile and Geneforge series as long as Jeff has, but it seems like outside of those two series, the originality drops off sharply and you no longer have the powerful and unique themes you once did. But it's a business and there will always be twelve year olds who want to throw money at Seattle to learn more about Tamrieladon.

[Vexivero]

Thanks for all the good reviews and advice. I might have spoken too early when I said "I'm way too busy to play them all". I can probably get around to them all EVENTUALLY, but it'll take a long time. I'm thinking of buying the Geneforge bundle. 5 games for $30 is extremely cheap, and I did take a liking to the series even though enemies didn't respawn. If I ever finish those five I might buy the first Avernum series. I only played the demos of each, but I spent countless hours doing so. It'd be nice to finally finish the storylines and find out what happens.

 

—Vexivero, who has now played more than the demos of each. Life Is Good

[Rya.Reisender]

Avernum: Escape From The Pit is definately the best spiderweb game by a large margin. For me at least. The other were just good, but Escape From the Pit fascinated me so much that I had to play it several hours every day.

[Vexivero]

Hey Rya sorry I meant to quote you but instead I reported your post. I don't think it'll matter though cause I typed the content of my post so whoever gets it will figure it out.

 

Anyways, I gotta agree with you that I really enjoyed the engine of Escape From The Pit over the other Spiderweb games I've played, even though I haven't experienced some of the newer ones.

 

I'm also wondering if the hint books are worth it? How helpful is the stuff they put in the hint books and what type of "hints" do they put in them?

 

—Vexivero, who no longer needs nor cares about hint books

[Edgwyn]

I used the hint books for both A:EftP and Avadon and found them helpful. They both contain walkthroughs (Major quests for A:EftP and the whole game for Avadon). That said, there is probably enough information on this forum and the sites linked to it that you could easily save the money. For example, for Avadon, with the Synergizer list and Jerakeen's annotated maps, I do not believe that you would have problems completing the game and all of the side quests.

 

On the other hand, I did like the combination of the "What do I do Next" from strategy central with the hint book for A:EftP.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Edgwyn

[Student of Trinity]

Shaper-Master reported Rya.Reisender's post to a moderator! As a moderator I must therefore act!

 

Prepare to be obliterated!

 

Both of you! And everyone else on this thread, for good measure, just to keep everyone on their toes!

 

(Just kidding. Only Stareye can actually perform obliteration, and only if you're touching your keyboard at the moment he clicks. If your webcam doesn't happen to have a clear view of your keyboard, he has to shoot blind; but then again he's got this Zen archery, use-the-Force-Luke thing going, so you do want to watch out for that, seriously now. Anyway, the most I as a mere Global Moderator can do is to give you 30 minutes of online bad luck. But if your connection goes flakey a bit too often to be funny, or you ever get three weird spam e-mails within a few minutes, then you'll know: don't challenge the Power.)

 

How exactly would one prepare to be obliterated, anyway? I don't think putting one's head between one's knees would exactly help. It would probably be really hard to ever be fully prepared for obliteration.

 

On the other hand, of all the things for which one might be inadequately prepared, obliteration is probably one of those for which it matters least. So. Carry on.

[Catoblepas]

If I had to choose a favorite Spiderweb game, I'd have to choose Geneforge three or four. Geneforge three is where such wonderful characters as Alwan and Greta and Litalia appear, which are quite important to the series, and it probably has the most personally involved storyline of the series, while in four I felt that the player character was best interwoven into the conflict-you had rather close working relationship with whatever faction you decided to side with, and I think best carried the feeling of a world where there was an active conflict going on, where in some of the others it sometimes seems like you are the only one ever doing anything while the faction leaders sit around waiting for you to come to them. I can't really comment about the non-geneforge games, because the only non-geneforge spiderweb game I have played is Avadon.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

I'd definitely have to go with Geneforge 4. The engine feels new enough to not grate on me (the most important cutoffs for me are the updates to the inventory system, which happened in G3 and G4 respectively), and the gameplay is plenty fun, if a bit on the easy side for Geneforge. Story-wise I've always preferred Geneforge to Avernum as the more original and morally complex setting (Avadon is somewhere in between), and Geneforge 4 has some of my favorite characterization in the series, particularly with Litalia, Miranda, and Ghaldring. I also really enjoy the pacing of the game: while in many respects I like the sandbox quality of most of Jeff's games, it can also feel like the world just sits around waiting for the player to poke at it. G4 is one of the few Spiderweb games that conveys a real sense of urgency and excitement, and manages to balance forward motion of plot with a (mostly) open world quite handily.

 

Avernum 6 is probably my second favorite. Well-done story that ties together a lot of themes and plot/character elements from previous games, fun gameplay overall (though enemies tend to have giant piles of HP on higher difficulties, which can make combat a bit tedious), some of the best set pieces of any Spiderweb game, and a lot prettier than its predecessors.

 

I'm also quite fond of Avadon, but I recognize that it's a polarizing game among hardcore fans (witness Neb's rather inflammatory statements above). The story is cool, but it didn't bowl me over like the better Geneforge games did. The gameplay, while still recognizably Spiderweb, has a lot of changes, including the first instance of a truly class-based character design system, the near-elimination of spell energy as a resource, and more puzzle-oriented boss fights. I'm a fan of pretty much all of those changes, but it also has notable flaws: while no class is overwhelmingly superior to the others, there are a lot of individual skills that are overpowered and others that are worth taking only as prerequisites if at all. Dexterity-focused builds are just flat out better than those that emphasize strength or intelligence. The final boss fight has also been the subject of a lot of well-deserved criticism. Still, I liked Avadon a lot, and I eagerly await the sequel.