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25 members have voted

  1. 1. Which spidweb game should I purchase first?

    • Exile: Escape From the Pit
      1
    • Avernum 1
      2
    • Avernum: Escape From the Pit
      6
    • Nethergate
      0
    • Nethergate: Ressurection
      4
    • Geneforge 1
      10
    • Avadon: The Black Fortress
      2


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I'm not sure that this is the right place for an Introduction, but I didn't see anywhere better sooo, Hello.

I'm Merteuil, if you know the origination of the name I'm just a big fan of Dangerous Liaisons and cunning dudes (or in this case dudettes).

 

Anywho, if this isn't the right place for an introduction I luckily have something else that I'm here to ask.

I'm getting ready to buy something spidweb related and I'm not sure where I should start. I know Exile is off the list completely and utterly. It won't work on my machine without a emulator for older OS's and doesn't look terribly fun to my spoiled on new-age technology self. Same reasoning applies to the original Nethergate.

Now from here I'm looking at the re-makes of these first two games and seem like good choices. With Avernum however having garnered a second re-make and possible the entire first trilogy a second re-make, I'm not sure I want to invest in it before that happens. If all 3 will be re-made rather soon I'm confident I don't want to invest in them before that happens unless they are so worth playing un-remade. A possibility I acknowledge unlike with the Exile trilogy. Furthermore I have similar sentiments with the Nethergate remake, if it's to be re-made again, my decision might be affected.

Starting with Avernum 4 is a consideration but a small one, I don't want to miss any neat little references. :lol:

Now looking at Geneforge I can't see any particular reason not to start here like with the other games unless I should definitely catch up with the first Avernum trilogy before the newest remakes come out. This is more in the territory of me deciding based on what you guys say. It definitely looks like the better series though.

Lastly Avadon, again I see no reason not to start here and it would give me time to see what happens with the Avernum re-makes.

 

That was a lot and clearly I've been thinking about this waaaaaaay too much. It's not a matter of entertainment budget being tight, not that it isn't, but I'm just kinda nutty. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated and of course I'll appreciate any responses to the poll I made.Thank you, and thanks even more for reading this little ramble. :D

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Remakes of Avernum 2 and Avernum 3 will probably be coming in the next couple of years, yes. Nethergate is probably the game least likely to get another remake: its sales figures were disappointing both in its original release and its remake, although it does have some vocal fans.

 

Geneforge is a decent starting point for SW games, except the engine of Geneforge 1 is a little clunky compared to more recent games. If you don't mind that, go for it. Avadon isn't a bad choice of game to start with either.

 

If you're not sure whether you want to buy a game, you can always try the demo and see how you like it: every Spiderweb game's demo is simply the first few hours of the game, and your save file carries over seamlessly into the full game if and when you buy it.

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There are demos for all the games, so try them first. Geneforge is a good point of entry since it's unlikely to be remade soon, but the engine was steadily upgraded throughout the series. Start with G1. If you can play it, great! If it's too old and crude, try moving on to the next game. And the next. Each story is self-contained, though they do refer back to previous games.

 

Nethergate is stand-alone and may have the best story of any Spiderweb game, but the engine is old. If you can play Avernum 1-3 you can play Nethergate, probably, but you may not like it. Give it a whirl.

 

Avadon is the beginning of a series. There's no reason not to play it. It's probably the shortest game, though, and starting there may make it harder to get into older games.

 

You can wait for the remakes to start Avernum, but that will take years. There's no real need to play A1 over its newer remake, but if you can stand to play A2 and A3 they're both good, A2 in particular. A4-6 use a different, newer engine that's more like Geneforge.

 

—Alorael, who stands by his original suggestion. Get demos. Try things out. Decide what you like for yourself. All the series are worth playing and all are different.

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if you want to have alot playing then start from Avernum 1 (not AEFTP) and continue upto Avernum 6 and then play Avadon 1 and 2 and then Avernum 1 remake (and quite likely Avernum 2 remake too).

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I would be tempted to start with the games that were made with older engines and won't be remade - namely Nethergate: Resurrection and the Geneforge series. If the dated graphics don't bother you, you will really enjoy them. They are terrific games that might not run on many computers in the future.

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My vote is Nethergate: Resurrection. It's my favorite Spiderweb game. To be fair, it does have an older user interface and the graphics are inferior to more recent games like A:EftP, but it's a fantastic game nonetheless. Try the demo; if the graphics / UI aren't a huge letdown, then go for it!

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Nethergate: Resurrection is a great game, but with a different feel than other Spiderweb games.

 

The Geneforge series is very unique - I've never played another game like it. The first couple games (especially the first) have somewhat dated engines though, but if you can get past that (try the demo and see), they are a lot of fun. Great stories (I even liked G3, although some don't).

 

A:ETFP and Avadon have the most modern engine, if that's a concern for you. Exile was my introduction to Spiderweb, so I'll always be somewhat partial to the world of Exile/Avernum. Avadon is fun too, though, and you can look forward to the sequel coming out later this year.

 

Reading this over, I guess it wasn't terribly helpful. Basically, I'd say play them all. :)

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If you DO want more in depth analysis: I consider A:EftP to be the best game to hook you- but you might find it awkward to return to older games. Consequently, I chose Geneforge as the best balance. However, as Alo observes, if you have time, you might as well just try the demos.

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Thank you all for the advice :).

I've more or less concluded based on things everyone has said, the poll, and how I already felt to do something like this.

 

1) Nethergate: Ressurection

2) The First Avernum Trilogy

3) Geneforge Saga

4) The Second Avernum Trilogy

5) Avadon

6) New Remakes of First Avernum Trilogy.

 

Of course all this is assuming I keep interested and keep having the money to spare and new releases don't muck up the order of the last few items :p

 

As of now I'm going to go ahead and download the Nethergate Demo, any advice on which side I should pick for my first play-through?

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The raven would recommend: Look at my signature.

-----

GENEFORGE!!! I think you could get the whole saga for the price of one on Steam.

 

Aaaany waaay, why Geneforge you ask?

 

Because if you don't, I'll eat your bwains.

Geneforge is different. It might not have any bows and arrows, real RPG combat style, like trip or decisive blow etc, but it is like entering a new dimension. Shapers create medieval technologies, like picking a door requires a living tool, not Garrett's lockpick. Or some kind of bred, living batons that shoot thorns. You can shape your creation and fight for what's right. It might not sound much like hack-slash RPGs that you see everyday, but the story is flawless, the way they act, in a different universe. What I said might not be convincing enough, but try it for yourself, you won't regret it.

-----

Anyway, it depends on what you prefer, but I recommend Geneforge.

-----

-Nightwatcher

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Personally, I enjoy the flavor of the Romans a little more. The Celts have access to more magic, though. Both are fun, both have access to a few unique quests or areas, and both are two parts of one story; you really have to play both to experience the whole game.

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I've more or less concluded based on things everyone has said, the poll, and how I already felt to do something like this.

 

1) Nethergate: Ressurection

2) The First Avernum Trilogy

3) Geneforge Saga

4) The Second Avernum Trilogy

5) Avadon

6) New Remakes of First Avernum Trilogy.

If you're going to start with the Nethergate/old Avernum engine, you might stop over at Blades of Avernum before you get into Geneforge, or maybe before you get into Avernum 4-6. Like Blades of Exile, Blades of Avernum is a release with tons of user-made scenarios. It has maybe not quite the same volume of scenarios that Blades of Exile had, but there's probably more content in BoA than in any other Spiderweb release on your list.

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The raven would recommend: Look at my signature.

-----

GENEFORGE!!! I think you could get the whole saga for the price of one on Steam.

 

Aaaany waaay, why Geneforge you ask?

 

Because if you don't, I'll eat your bwains.

Geneforge is different. It might not have any bows and arrows, real RPG combat style, like trip or decisive blow etc, but it is like entering a new dimension. Shapers create medieval technologies, like picking a door requires a living tool, not Garrett's lockpick. Or some kind of bred, living batons that shoot thorns. You can shape your creation and fight for what's right. It might not sound much like hack-slash RPGs that you see everyday, but the story is flawless, the way they act, in a different universe. What I said might not be convincing enough, but try it for yourself, you won't regret it.

-----

Anyway, it depends on what you prefer, but I recommend Geneforge.

-----

-Nightwatcher

 

This, every word of it.

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I would go with whatever everyone/poll else has said. Try Geneforge 1 to see if you like it. If you do then I think its only obvious what you should do if you complete it. The gene forge series is by far the most original rpg series I have ever come across. I still to this day, get people who ask me if they've ever seen a roleplaying game that has always been 150% original. Geneforge series is the answer. If however, you don't get into that/not your cup of tea, Avadon is a little bit like Geneforge with some of the aspects of it and is more forgiving. Avadon also in my opinion has some of the best/most memorable characters Ive seen in a rpg.

 

Avernum Escape from the Pit is also another good choice seeing as Exile doesn't work on your comp. Either one you choose, you can't beat the deal your getting when you can play 20% of the game before paying for it.

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I've tried playing Nethergate, but I just can't get used to dealing with how tiny the viewing area is compared to Jeff's more recent games. If you decide to go with Geneforge, I'd recommend getting one of the later games in the series and then going back to Geneforge 1 if you enjoy it. The gameplay in Geneforge I takes a bit of getting used to compared to the others.

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Well I'm playing through the Nethergate demo now. I'm enjoying it immensely, not minding the graphics and such, so I assume I shall enjoy the first Avernum trilogy and they look abouts the same engine so presumably they'll work without a emulator. I'll probably try the first Geneforge demo before I commit to buying either though, seeing as since my last post brought all the Geneforge fans out of the woodwork :p

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I assume I shall enjoy the first Avernum trilogy and they look abouts the same engine so presumably they'll work without a emulator.
The first Avernum trilogy should run just fine on any Windows machine, but they will not run on a modern Mac (OS X 10.7 or later). That said, there is a link in my signature to Winskin bundles of the demo versions of the original Avernum trilogy that will run on newer Macs.
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The first Avernum trilogy should run just fine on any Windows machine, but they will not run on a modern Mac (OS X 10.7 or later). That said, there is a link in my signature to Winskin bundles of the demo versions of the original Avernum trilogy that will run on newer Macs.

As always, thanks for your sig links. Doesn't every Mac user have a spare Snow Leopard (10.6) box for just such concerns? Alas, they don't live forever, but my 2006, made-in-the-US iMac is still going strong (and can't run 10.8 anyway.) eBay is your friend for cheap used Macs.

 

To the OP: Spiderweb games are all about the gameplay. Graphics have their place, but I keep buying these remakes over and over.

 

Since no one else said it:

 

Welcome to Spiderweb Software. Please leave your sanity at the door.

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Blades of Exile is FOSS, runs on modern systems perfectly fine, and has hundreds of user-created scenarios. Just saying

 

Edited by sylae, 21 May 2013 - 03:25 PM.

Plus omg dat rump on the splash screen guy

It's not often that I feel the need to "like" an edit reason, but that was funny.

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I remember getting into SubTerra just before Jeff stopped hosting them on his website, and the fora for that and the Richard White Games were scrubbed. Such a fun and quirky little puzzle game. Did you know there's now a SubTerra 2?

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Blades of Exile is FOSS, runs on modern systems perfectly fine, and has hundreds of user-created scenarios. Just saying

 

Edited by sylae, 21 May 2013 - 10:25 PM.

Plus omg dat rump on the splash screen guy

 

I play Blades for the plot. :p

Edited by Arancaytar
ifyouknowwhatimean
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Well, I think the A3 engine is worse than the A2 engine. It's a downgrade in combat. But it changes from one game to the next, for sure.

A3 had better movement(straight compared to diagonal in A2), also it didn't have that white background behind the items. I am curious as to how the A3 combat is worse than A2 though?

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You can move in 8 directions all the games with the Nethernum engine, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I seem to have a vague recollection of one of the older engines/games also allowing you jump off ledges (and killing oyu if the drop was too large), but the more I think about it, the more I think I'm completely imagining this/making it up in my own head ... Ah, the joys of ageing ... :)

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I seem to have a vague recollection of one of the older engines/games also allowing you jump off ledges (and killing oyu if the drop was too large), but the more I think about it, the more I think I'm completely imagining this/making it up in my own head ... Ah, the joys of ageing ... :)

 

Nope, this was a thing in Nethergate and the original Avernum Trilogy.

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You can move in 8 directions all the games with the Nethernum engine, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Try moving using keypad in A2, you move diagonally, then do the same in A3 and notice the difference. That's why we have our top sticky topic in Avernum first trilogy.

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I seem to have a vague recollection of one of the older engines/games also allowing you jump off ledges (and killing oyu if the drop was too large), but the more I think about it, the more I think I'm completely imagining this/making it up in my own head ... Ah, the joys of ageing ... :)

 

Yeah, it was one of the few ways to die instantly, without being left at 0HP.

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Try moving using keypad in A2, you move diagonally, then do the same in A3 and notice the difference. That's why we have our top sticky topic in Avernum first trilogy.

Oh right, in the Windows versions. The Mac versions don't do this. It's worth noting that you can still move in 8 directions if your keyboard has a numpad though.

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A3 had better movement(straight compared to diagonal in A2), also it didn't have that white background behind the items. I am curious as to how the A3 combat is worse than A2 though?

As noted by others, A2 and A3 have the same movement, at least on a Mac, and there was no change with a white background that I can recall on a Mac.

 

A3 dealt with damage very differently than A1 and A2 did. It's been too long for me to remember the specifics, but basically, more damage got done quickly, which basically eliminated the usefulness of casting poison/acid spells and made lower-level combat really fluky. A3 also nerfed Gymnastics, eliminated Divide Warrior, and did a few other things that I thought were for the worse. Admittedly, Gymnastics and Divine Warrior were game-breakingly good in A1/A2, so these changes may have been for the better overall, but I thought that the rest of them were a step down.

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Hm... well, almost a generation ago my first introduction to... heck, the RPG genre was Exile 2: Crystal Souls.

 

In this case... Hm. Avernum: Escape from the Pit would be the best indicator of what Spiderweb puts out now adays, but if you'd rather just jump into a version of the story that won't potentially take another half decade to complete, the original trilogy is your best bet.

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So if we are already on the topic of old games, which ones are win 8 [...] compatible?

I have successfully played the original Avernum series, Nethergate Resurrection, and Blades of Avernum, as well as Open Exile in Windows 8.

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As noted by others, A2 and A3 have the same movement, at least on a Mac, and there was no change with a white background that I can recall on a Mac.

Well, I can't speak about the Mac, but I assure you that both these things were present on the windows version.

 

Also honestly I won't classify the combat change as engine downgrade, it's more of a personal preference kind of thing, other people might prefer the A3 system, so it's not a downgrade or an upgrade, it's just a change.

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