wayfarer Ryozo papers options (spoilers)

[FrenchFries]

Please give me as few (none if possible) spoilers as possible.

 

Did the first job for the wayfarer, which provided him information about Commander Ryozo. So, now he wanted me to find proof that Ryozo's a traitor to the Pact. Found the proof just where the wayfarer said it would be. It just feels.. wrong.

 

I actually took a chance and talked to Ryozo himself about it. He was shocked and all, which is kind of to be expected. But, it was kind of convincing, too.

 

I went back to that Heart lady, the one that gives you the missions. I forget her name. No options to discuss the wayfarer or any of this with the Heart lady like before. Even tried talking to Redbeard and found no options. Disappointing. Figured the most logical thing to do is to talk to your superiors before having an important military leader arrested.

 

Basically, I don't want to have ryozo arrested because it feels like he's being set up. At the very least, I'd like to have more options than to simply have him arrested for something I'm not convinced of.

 

It feels like my only options are:

1. Turn in the quest and have ryozo arrested, which I don't want to do.

2. Do nothing? I don't know. It feels like I'm breaking game mechanics by leaving the ryozo papers quest in the quest log.

 

I guess I just want to do something other than the first option. But, I'd also like to not ruin any part of the quest chain if I'm actually doing something right.

 

As a side note, I get the feeling Avadon was originally a totally different game than what it is now. Feels like it was decided to go in a different direction while the game was still in development.

[Lilith]

I think there's an option to destroy the papers when you first find them; it doesn't particularly matter if you do that or just never turn in the quest. I'm also pretty sure the Wayfarer will still contact you for future work even if you skip one of his quests, so it's up to you whether you still want to work for him after this.

 

By the way, I'd say what you're picking up on is not so much a matter of a change of creative direction as the fact that so much time went into developing the new engine that some of the game's content wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been.

[FrenchFries]

I think there's an option to destroy the papers when you first find them; it doesn't particularly matter if you do that or just never turn in the quest. I'm also pretty sure the Wayfarer will still contact you for future work even if you skip one of his quests, so it's up to you whether you still want to work for him after this.

 

 

 

I think there's an option to destroy the papers when you first find them; it doesn't particularly matter if you do that or just never turn in the quest. I'm also pretty sure the Wayfarer will still contact you for future work even if you skip one of his quests, so it's up to you whether you still want to work for him after this.

 

By the way, I'd say what you're picking up on is not so much a matter of a change of creative direction as the fact that so much time went into developing the new engine that some of the game's content wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been.

 

I just wish there was another option as far as dealing with this wayfarer and his tasks. I don't want to just simply not finish a quest if I feel like it's a set up to frame someone. I want other options. It leaves the whole thing feeling incomplete. I almost want to say poorly done. I'd expect crappy quest handling choices from AAA games, but not Jeff's.

 

But, I hope that doesn't sound too bad. I'm actually not bothered by it. Just making observations.

 

All things considered, Avadon does have a good story to it, even if it was a little slow in the beginning. I've actually read the lore from the books I've encountered. I'm hoping I'll run into a lore book on the corruption at some point.

 

And yes, I think you're right. That some things didn't get fleshed out. For example, you find light sources like lamps, but there's no place where they're really needed. I encountered some "semi-dark" caves in the beginning of the game where I'd get this lit-up effect when I used a lamp. Yet after Kva, caves I ran into are as brightly lit as the outside. It's like he wanted to have dark places, but then made dark areas not so bad because he decided it was going to be too harsh, then later on wound up not adding any darkness to cave areas at all.

 

I also can't quite put my finger on it, but it feels like combat was initially something different before some things were changed to the way it is now. Like, maybe he was going to make a system that was more akin to previous games before changing his mind. One thing is how vitality only really impacts spellcasters, and even then it's not a big deal.

 

All this makes me think some things, not everything, were originally different, but got changed and there wasn't time to flesh it all out.

[Randomizer]

In the first beta the rats were tougher.

 

The game was tweaked a lot to balance it, but Jeff never really fixed it completely. The next game should be better.

 

Vitality affects fighters who use lots of their abilities.

[Lilith]

And yes, I think you're right. That some things didn't get fleshed out. For example, you find light sources like lamps, but there's no place where they're really needed. I encountered some "semi-dark" caves in the beginning of the game where I'd get this lit-up effect when I used a lamp. Yet after Kva, caves I ran into are as brightly lit as the outside. It's like he wanted to have dark places, but then made dark areas not so bad because he decided it was going to be too harsh, then later on wound up not adding any darkness to cave areas at all.

 

There's been an evolution in how light sources work over the course of his last several games, and it happened pretty much exactly as you describe. (Jeff has a post about this somewhere on his blog.) Light sources do make areas somewhat more brightly lit, but they've basically been made optional to avoid inconveniencing players who forget to make sure they're carrying one around.

 

I also can't quite put my finger on it, but it feels like combat was initially something different before some things were changed to the way it is now. Like, maybe he was going to make a system that was more akin to previous games before changing his mind. One thing is how vitality only really impacts spellcasters, and even then it's not a big deal.

 

This is another topic Jeff has blogged about, and as far as I can tell it's pretty much working as designed: vitality is meant to give you a general feeling that you're being worn down over the course of a dungeon, without actually wearing you down so much that you're incentivised to run back to the pylon to recover it every couple of fights. It's at least as much of a psychological trick as it is a gameplay element. It's sort of an odd design choice but I can see the logic behind it.

[Alorael at Large]

I thought talking to Ryozo gave another opportunity to destroy the papers, but I'm probably misremembering. I also think that continuing on without completing Wayfarer quests eventually gets them removed from your quest log when you next encounter him without having done his bidding. It's not exactly shoddy quest handling. It's more that you finish the quest by reporting to the giver that you won't do it and haven't done it, but he's a hard man to find to tell him so.

 

—Alorael, who likes the vitality system because while it is a strange design decision on the surface it works very well. It's a countdown, but it's not one that should matter very often, and it rarely will. For the times it does you should have more than enough potions. It's mostly there to prevent you from feeling completely invulnerable and unstoppable, and while on a mechanical level it's a failure on a psychological level it really seems to work.

[FrenchFries]

Before posting here, I took a chance and talked to Ryozo about it. I used the dialog option "I think these are forged" but it didn't produce anything useful.

 

Side note- Just after posting here about lamps not being useful, I found more of those semi-dark caves where they are kind of useful, even in a RP sense.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, it would have been nice if you could take the papers to somebody else or ask the person you turn them over to if there's any way to verify their authenticity because as you have a creeping suspicion that they may be forgeries. Wonder if Ryozo will be making any appearance in the sequel? Since the mind reading machines were smashed by the rebels at the end of Avadon it would be rather difficult for him to prove his innocence if he was arrested.

[Earth]

Ryozo was minor character so unlikely that he appears.

[nikki.]

Ryozo was minor character so unlikely that he appears.

 

So were Nance and Elspeth. And Tor. And Carol. and, actually, most of the minor characters in the Avernum series. Assuming Avadon 2 takes place just after Avadon, why wouldn't minor characters from the first be present in the second?

[Earth]

Avernum is bit different than Avadon since Avernum happens in cave which is big but Avadon happens on continent. Ryozo might appear just like other minors but he could be only mentioned somewhere or totally forgotten, we'll see when Avadon 2 comes out.

[Alorael at Large]

Geneforge took place over non-overlapping geography and still had no lack of recurring characters. It's become a definite element of Jeff's series, and it requires less effort for coming up with new minor characters. Expect recurrence.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't know if he'd expect Ryozo in particular. The man may have had his mind turned inside out. He may show up, but only as a vegetable. You never know.

[Randomizer]

You see Ryozo in a cell waiting to be examined while you are sent downstairs to do pest control in the tutorial.

[Earth]

or we will do interrogation.

[vadymmykh]

Years later, I am being confused about the same moral choice

[Matt Morgan]

I think the issue is this. There should be an option to question Ryozo further. I.e., "Then either tell me what you really came to ask the Dragon about, or I will expose you."

[Randomizer]

The point of all the Wayfarer's quests are to expose corruption in Avadon to push you to side with him. The game doesn't want you to be sympathetic to Avadon.

 

Then in the end you are suppose to challenge Redbeard.

[Buzko]

Hi all,

 

Sorry to necro, but for those wondering about how to complete the quest without turning a (probably) innocent guy over to the totally-not-torturers in Avadon's dungeons, you need to go to Watcher Harissa in Zhethron's Aerie and talk to her about Ryozo, then choose the second option, which includes destroying the papers.  That removed the quest from my log.

 

Hope that helps.

 

I also assumed there would be a way to report this to Heart Miranda or Redbeard, but such is life.