Articulate Vlish Shaper Shaper Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The Geneforge: In Redbeard's quarters, there is a fountain which really, really reminds me of the Geneforge. Why? - It is red - It tempts the PC to use it. - It kills the PC when the PC decides to plunge his or her hands in it. - The only user is Red Beard, a person who * lived a long time (An effect caused by the Geneforge) * looks strange to the average person (Another effect caused by the Geneforge) * is insanely powerful (Yet another effect from the Geneforge) Shaping: - The wizard created that strange creature. He didn't summon it like a shaman. - Some uses of magic is strictly forbidden in Lyannaus. Could these magic techniques be the lost Shaping Arts? - On that note, can the lost Shaping Arts be the 6th mage technique that one woman in the inn was looking for? Obviously, one part of magic is missing. - The Corruption is considered to be a place where rogue mages live, a place that is considered to be infested with rogue creatures and an impractically bizarre place. Shaping, anyone? Geography and History: - The geography of Lyanneus looks very similar to Terrestia if the two sides of Terrestia can be seen at once. - In one of the books, it states that there were strange people who came over to Lyanneus a long, long time ago. The time of the Shapers, anyone? - The dragons of Avadon used to fight the humans. The drakons of Geneforge did fight the loyal humans and Shapers (and killed my PC a couple of times, too) In the end of Geneforge 5, we learn that the age of the revolution has been long forgotten. Due to the multiple endings, we don't really know who won. The Shapers? The Rebels? Who? Even if the Shapers did win, they would surely be put to rest in a few centuries if not a few thousand years. Avadon, while it isn't stated, does have the ability to become the future of Terrestia. Or, I suppose, can be the Schloai's home since all of their mages only used magic but no shaping. Anyways, what do you think? Are the Geneforge games and Avadon games connected? Or are these just easter eggs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Avadon 2 is presumably set in Corruption so we shall be able to know it's secrets then, but to be honest the similarities seem superfluous to me, I mean the same man made the games, it's just natural that some things may look similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Avadon's more likely to be Terrestria's past than its future, I think. Shaping defines the world of Geneforge, it wouldn't be simply forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Thynar Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What would drive the Shapers or even the Rebels (and other sects...) to forbid the ultimate power?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Geneforge 1 is, in large part, an extended answer to that question. —Alorael, who is fairly sure this is more a case of Jeff going back to the well of themes he likes and not any deliberate linking of worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Does the word lazy mean anything to you? I bet if any of the paper D&D players that Jeff gamed with posted here they could point out game elements from their old campaigns besides the Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Spiders (GIFTS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I never got the impression there was supposed to be a connection to the Geneforge world with Avernum. Aside from what you mentioned, pretty much nothing is similar, especially with the way Magic works. I think it's just Jeff using inspired ideas from his other products rather then a direct callback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Zelos Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Very interesting thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd yarow12 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 What would drive the Shapers or even the Rebels (and other sects...) to forbid the ultimate power?! What caused humanity to do the same (witchcraft, voodoo, hoodoo, etc)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 . . . Those are definitely not practically useful, while Shaping is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 What caused humanity to do the same (witchcraft, voodoo, hoodoo, etc)? Those are ultimate powers?, God, you really do learn something every day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'd have bought a Voodoo doll if only they weren't so highly priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'd have bought a Voodoo doll if only they weren't so highly priced. ? It's so hard to spot irony online. You should stay away from voodoo, because if it doesn't work you're a doofus for trying it, and if it does then karma probably does too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 No, it's true. There has been religious proscription against the use of magic in Judeo-Christian religion for thousands of years. It's hard to know exactly what's behind it if you take an anthropological rather than theological approach, but it might well be similar: power corrupts, and no one individual should wield those powers. Especially if they're bought with the price of your soul and all the usual. —Alorael, who wouldn't given any more consideration to karma if voodoo had empirical evidence behind it; just the opposite, in fact. Given that religions with karma and the religion of voodoo are largely mutually exclusive, evidence for the latter would largely preclude the former. Yes, it would merit investigation, but there's some strong evidence that karma's not quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 keep in mind that the idea of magic as separable from religion pretty much didn't exist before modern fantasy literature. if you were using magic you were petitioning supernatural beings for aid, and that was Bad News if you were bargaining with the wrong beings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Even so, while Solomon is considered to have his faults, the rabbinic literature generally lauds him for his control of demons. Views on magic are complicated. Merlin has been a wizard and still viewed largely positively for at least a thousand years. —Alorael, who also thinks your definition is a little too Western. Saints and prophets have been empowered by God to perform miracles, and witches and wizards are presumably reliant on less savory beings. Hindu and Buddhist "miracle"-workers are more often internally empowered, however; in the latter case, especially, a bodhisattva might, perhaps, lend someone mystic power, but is more likely to act directly. Anyone with impressive abilities is instead likely to be well on the path to nirvana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 —Alorael, who wouldn't given any more consideration to karma if voodoo had empirical evidence behind it; just the opposite, in fact. Given that religions with karma and the religion of voodoo are largely mutually exclusive, evidence for the latter would largely preclude the former. Yes, it would merit investigation, but there's some strong evidence that karma's not quite right. Oh, it's a consistent world-view you want, is it? No, sorry. If you can torture and/or murder someone from afar by sticking pins in a doll, then all bets are off. I will have to assume that it's all real: voodoo, karma, ESP, demonic possession, astrology, numerology, phrenology, aleuromancy, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. And Hell. Because if you torture and/or murder someone from afar by sticking pins in a doll, you are definitely going to Hell. And don't bother telling me that karma and Hell are mutually exclusive, because I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 ..karma and Hell are mutually exclusive.. I haven't understood what all this talk of 'Karma' on the internet is about. As a Hindu, I know it as "sum of a person's actions that can determine said person's future events". It is a counter of all the good's and bad's that you have done, which will finally (upon death) be considered by Ishwara (God) when the ultimate question arises - Do you attain Moksha or do you just continue indefinitely in this cycle of birth and rebirth ? This view is apparently similar to the term as known in Buddhism/Sikhism. But all of the Christians/Muslims I've asked have only a vague idea of it having to do with a person's 'deeds'. So why is Karma talked about as if it is a seperate concept that is independent of religion ? If you are not a Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh, then there is no reason for you to believe in the concept all, is there ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 In the West, 'karma' usually refers to the idea that everyone pays or is paid for what they have done, People who do 'good' things have good things happen to them, and people who do 'bad' things have bad things happen to them, in a purely terrestrial sense. For most people, this idea is independent of organized religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Oh, it's a consistent world-view you want, is it? No, sorry. If electrons behave as particles and waves simultaneously, I will have to assume that it's all real: voodoo, karma, ESP, demonic possession, quantum mechanics, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. And don't tell me observation collapses wave functions, because I don't care. FYT —Alorael, who thinks karma osmosed into Western culture and is now used a general, usually non-religious/spiritual term for how good deeds get rewarded, bad deeds get punished, and sometimes how good luck balances bad and vice versa. It has nothing to do with faith; often, in fact, it's an expression closer to superstition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Thank you, Alorael. I needed a good laugh today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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