What Faction do you support?

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

So...

 

A question that has gnawed at me for ages. I have always been a diehard for the shapers. But what do other people think. I open it to you, my fellow Spidweb Gamers.

 

Please explain your rationale in a post. I look forward to seeing your responses.

[Triumph]

Non-aligned is most emphatically NOT possible in G3. You MUST choose to join either the badguys or the badguys...I mean the Shapers or the Rebels. There is no ability whatsoever to deviate onto a third path.

 

For G5, you might have wanted to include the full array of factions, since there are some interesting differences between backing Astoria or Ghaldring (for the more Rebel point of view), or Alwan or Taygen (for the more Shaper position).

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Allow me to explain my rationale.

Excuse the double post, please.

 

For G1, there really is no good faction. I support the Obeyers but they are complete terrorists attacking the other towns. As Learned Darian said, all sects have their flaws. Trajkov is an invader and must be dealt with. Shaper law forbids augmenting one's self so Goettsch is an enemy too. I found milking all the sects to be adventageous.

 

For G2, being a Loyalist is difficult to play throughout the game. It limits your ability to trade with other sects or learn from the Magus Complex and the Radiant College. Unaligned may be most beneficial again.

 

For G3, the advantages seem to be about even for both sects so Ill stick wih my Shaper homeboys for this one.

 

For G4, the Trakovites come into play. A noble effort but impossible to ever happen. Again, my homeboys take the cake.

 

For G5, I stuck with Alwan. Astoria was nutso, Rawal was out for himself, so I picked my crippled companion from G3. I enjoyed killing Eko's sidekick, Amena Blade for the fifth time (shes the only character to apppear in all 5 geneforges.)

 

There, my crazy rationale. Argue with me if you will.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Sorry, my Kindle is not letting me edit the actual polls. Please withold your votes until noted otherwise.

[Dikiyoba]

Once made, polls can't be edited, ever. If you make a mistake while making a poll, it stays that way.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Randomizer]

They are all scum. So unaligned in GF1 and 2, Shaper in GF3 as the lesser of all evils, Trakovite in GF4, and Taygen in GF5 for his clear the board and start over idea.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Can i delete the whole post and everyone remove everything??

 

Nuh man. It wont even let me add a new poll to the thread:(

I guess it would be stupid to make a brand new thread...

 

PLEASE NOTE in a post for specifics for G5. Options Are:

Taygen, Rawal, Alwan, Astoria, Ghaldring, Trakovite.

 

Thank You for your patience!

[Orakio Rob]

Well, I'm a noob who is playing Geneforge 1. Up to now, I'm sided with the obeyers; it's fun to side with people who treat you like a god Of course, I still don't know if they will betray me, as I have not finished the game yet -- I've just talked to the human rebels in the cave east of Kazg and the story is starting to unveil.

[Goettsch]

Goettsch is the best

[Catoblepas]

Hi, I'm a new forum member!

 

I have only beaten Geneforge 3-5, so I can only speak for my positions on those games, but here goes:

 

 

 

G1: Shaper. The rebels are extremely unsympathetic in this game-killing anyone who gets in their way, and many who do not. Every shaper in G3 that uses cannisters is shown to become completely unstable by the end of the game, aside from the ones that are already insane the first time you see them. They respect creation rights only marginally better than the shapers themselves and only when it suits them. My first encounter with the rebels was Litalia blowing up the school and killing almost everyone that my character would have been familiar with. That was plenty of motivation for me to go rebel hunting, and I never really felt like there were any complleling reasons to join the rebellion, althoguh the servile on the second to last island convinced me to make a second save to try a rebel playthrough for the last bit (which I immediately regretted) Of the three geneforge games I have played, I feel that three has the most sympathetic Shapers and least sympathetic rebels. I think the problem is that the main quests that Litalia/ the other rebels gave me never really showed me the dark side of the shapers to any large extent to tempt me from the shaper cause, while just about every atrocity I saw over the course of the game was committed by those same rebels.

 

G4: Right off the bat I got off on the wrong foot with the rebels around the time they forced me to use the Geneforge under threat of death. I did a few quests for the shapers out or resentment, and stuck with them because 1) the pro-shaper storyline felt a lot more 'natural' to me than the pro-rebel storyline of 3 and 2) Miranda, Alwan, and the shaper general near southforge citadel were suprisingly polite and nice to me consistantly, depite the PC being a shaping-twisted rebel. By comprarison, the only individuals I liked in the Rebellion were Greta and Litalia (who I still bore a out-of-character grudge against for geneforge 3), which was counterbalanced by the personalities of the Drakons and most Dryaks. While I was tempted by the endgame to switch to the Trakovites, I unknowingly locked myself out of being able to get that ending by completing a certain quest near the endgame, so I ended with a zero-cannister loyalist ending, which was rather satisfying. I definately think the rebels were more sympathetic than in 3, but ultimately being forced to use the geneforge, the general unlikable personalities of the cannsiter-mad lifecrafters and arrogant Drakons, and my lingering grudge against the rebels from 3 swayed my choice away from them.

 

G5: Shaper(Alwan). There were a couple of factions that I considered joining, but I ultimately ended up with the shapers. I considered joining Astoria because I liked the idea of a world where intelligent creations like serviles were free but also disliked the use of cannisters and geneforges by the rebels and their wanton disregard for human and creation life through use of things like Unbound and the beetles. Unfortunately, I was locked out of joining her faction by having to high a shaper reputation, despite doing all of her quests, saving Mehken, and generally being pro-creation rights. I considered joining the Trakovites for similar reasons, but was also barred from joining despite doing the dryak's quest. I guess words speak louder than actions. At any rate, I didn't want to join the main rebel faction because I hate Drakons, don't like self-shaping, and disliked their use of unbound and beetles. Rawal's faction looked like bad news from the get go, so I betrayed him as soon as possible, and Taygen was out of the question for being an equally evil individual, which left me with Alwan pretty much by default. Alwan's faction was satisfying enough for me, being the third game in which I ended up working with him I think there was a bit of comforting familiarity, but I would have liked to try Astoria or even the Trakovites, unfortunately I was prevented due to game mechanics locking me out of joining those factions.

 

Well, those are my reasons for joining who I did. I hope all of that made sense. I'm going to start playing either Geneforge 1 or 2 soon, I hear they have a great variety of factions, so it should be fun!

[Trenton.]

Welcome to Spiderweb software. Leave your sanity at the door.

 

 

G1 Awekened.

G2 Shaper.

G3 Shaper.

G4 Shaper.

G5 Rebel.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

I daresay that is Randomizer's quote.

 

Welcome to the forums, Catoblepas and Goettsch, though I think I've met you in some game before, Goettsch!

[Juan Carlo]

For some reason serviles really tug at my heart strings, so I have a hard time supporting anyone who is anti-servile. The broken pigeon english of the ones raised in captivity is just too cute, so I don't think I could ever kill a servile and I usually went out of my way to save the little buggers (even reloading in big fights if one of them would die, lol).

 

For G1 and G2 I was awakened (easy call).

 

G3 is the hardest decision of any of the game because both factions are so awful, but I ended up grudgingly supporting the Rebels just because I reasoned that insane freedom is better than none at all.

 

G4 I was trakovite. Again, I was sympathetic to the rebels most of the way, but I couldn't support their crazy UrDrakon scheme in the end.

 

G5 I was tempted to go trakovite again, but they became to militaristic/terroristic for my tastes (I think I balked when they wanted me to destroy astoria's lands by unleashing that super bug thing), so I ended up with Astoria who seemed the most rational of the rebels.

 

Anyhow, it's interesting how many support the shapers. At least in G1 and G2, it's always seemed to me that the shapers are clearly written as the bad guys. I can understand hating the takers (who are kind of crazy), but I don't see how anyone could ethically rationalize supporting the shapers in those games.

[Catoblepas]

Originally Posted By: Juan Carlo

For some reason serviles really tug at my heart strings, so I have a hard time supporting anyone who is anti-servile. The broken pigeon english of the ones raised in captivity is just too cute, so I don't think I could ever kill a servile and I usually went out of my way to save the little buggers (even reloading in big fights if one of them would die, lol).

For G1 and G2 I was awakened (easy call).

G3 is the hardest decision of any of the game because both factions are so awful, but I ended up grudgingly supporting the Rebels just because I reasoned that insane freedom is better than none at all.

G4 I was trakovite. Again, I was sympathetic to the rebels most of the way, but I couldn't support their crazy UrDrakon scheme in the end.

G5 I was tempted to go trakovite again, but they became to militaristic/terroristic for my tastes (I think I balked when they wanted me to destroy astoria's lands by unleashing that super bug thing), so I ended up with Astoria who seemed the most rational of the rebels.

Anyhow, it's interesting how many support the shapers. At least in G1 and G2, it's always seemed to me that the shapers are clearly written as the bad guys. I can understand hating the takers (who are kind of crazy), but I don't see how anyone could ethically rationalize supporting the shapers in those games.

G1 + G2 might be a bit different, I haven't gotten far enough in them yet to say- although from what I have seen so far I could see how the rebel factions could be mroe sympathetic in those games.

However, in the later games I think that the Shapers could be more sympathetic. Not having played G1 or G2 to completion, my first immersive experience with the rebel movement was in G3 rather than with the awakened in G1 or G2. The Rebels in Geneforge 3 on the other hand are really an unsympathetic bunch, oftentimes even hypocritical. Playing as a shaper Loyalist, I got exposed to a lot of their unsympathetic attitudes towards creation rights. However, many of the Shaper atrocities can either avoided such as the rebel situation on the second island which I think can be ignored, or killing the servile farmers on the last island, which can be avoided. Other bad stuff that the shapers commit might not even be noticed by shaper players-Rahul's dirty secret only reveals itself in the endgame and only to rebel players. By contrast, The Monastery of Tears, the mind-controlled serviles on Dhonal's Isle, The specifics of how the rebellion on Harmony Isle was set up, the purposeful targeting of civilians by the rebels, the use of creators and spawners to make rogues in a similar manner to Monarch in G4, the destruction of the academy, how the rebels deal with Kyhrk and Agatha, and the way Litalia and other rebels constantly try to dangle the carrot of more cannisters in front of your character as motivation for joining the rebels (unfortunate implications considering they are an addictive substance)-these things are readily obvious when playing through the game, and IMO provide a pretty massive hurdle to get over from the standpoint of a shaper student in order to join the rebels in those games.

As for G4 and G5, I think the non-shaper factions are much more sympathetic in those games than in G3, and I only really ended up working for the Shapers in G4 because I felt me and the rebels got off on a bad foot with them forcing my PC to use the geneforge without telling me about the side-effects (or giving me any other options besides using the genforge and death) Most of the Shaper characters you meet right after and during the Tutorial are rather sympathetic- Miranda, The Shaper General in the shaper camp, and the Outsider creation tender who names every single one of the creations under his care like pets. By contrast, a significant portion of the lifecrafters in and around southforge show signs of cannister madness. Then of course there was the unbound problem at the end, which made me lose all the sympathy I had for the Rebels prior to that point. In G5, while I might have had sympathy for Astoria, I was locked out of joining her faction because of the snowballing effect of only being pro-rebel about 20%-30% of the time, ditto for the Trakovites. Since the Rebels had changed little since G4 that left me with Rawal (ugh), Taygen (even worse), and Alwan, who seemed to actually have mellowed out since G4, despite all of the horrible things that happened to him. At that point he seemed like the best choice.

I can see where you are coming from with beign rebel-sympathetic, as the shapers clearly do quite a bit of oppression, esp of serviles, on the other hand they seem to be justified in their fears of shaping outside of their control considering what the rebels do when they have access to shaping. (unbound, the beetles, spawners, creators, Ur-Drakons, cannisters, etc etc) I think there is certainly enough justification given in the games for players to decide to choose to support the shapers over the rebels, esp in G3. I'd say they are a far cry from being the designated bad guys in these games, so the results of the poll don't exactly suprise me too much.

Thanks for the warm welcome, Babster30 and Captain TrEnToN. I think I lost my sanity when I realized that my zero-cannsiter run in G5 had zero impact on the ending. (I realized this during the ending, of course)

[Trenton.]

Of course, Catoblepas.

 

Let me clarify which shaper faction I want. I don't know if it's shaper or rebel, but Astoria Rebels and Shapers living together in harmony.

 

PeAcE aNd HaRmOnY. ThAt'S wHaT pOnIeS aRe AlL aBoUt.

[Catoblepas]

I think Astoria is technically a rebel faction, because when I tried to join her, she told me I was too shaper-aligned to trust or something similar. A shame, because I would have expected that she would be neutral on the shaper/rebel scale.

[Juan Carlo]

Yeah, technically I think Astoria is viewed as a moderate Rebel rather than a shaper.

 

Alwain is viewed as the moderate shaper---which seems kind of strange given how hardline he is, but compared to the Nazi shaper guy down south (can't recall his name) he's very moderate.

[Trenton.]

Taygen?

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Taygen is not a Nazi shaper. Many normal pro-shapers support him and if you ask me, I support him too. Peace can be reached without war. If Taygen thinks a new era of Shapers would work for Terrestria, so be it.

[Catoblepas]

Taygen's plan involves the genocide of every single creation, including every loyal creation and many species of sentient ones. He puts creations in concentration camps where they are systematically starved and executed. I would say there is a lot of credence to comparisons between him and Nazis.

 

As for Alwan being a moderate shaper, while he has mellowed out a bit from Geneforge 4, as evidenced by his ending, but his faction essentially represents the traditionalist shaper standpoint. I think that he is 'moderate' in this respect, but I also think that Astoria should be a radical Shaper faction as well for wanting compromise with the rebels while being a member of the ruling body of the shapers. It would be nice to have seen a comparable entity for the rebels who wanted peace as well, perhaps led by Greta, but unfortunately there is no real path for Shaper players to follow if they want to work towards a less destructive resolution to the conflict, despite the fact that the very faction that desires a compromise is led by a shaper. Needless to say, this was one of the few points of Geneforge 5 that I found disappointing.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Catoblepas

Taygen's plan involves the genocide of every single creation, including every loyal creation and many species of sentient ones.

Realistically, Taygen's plan goes beyond genocide and into complete societal collapse.

His plan involves the extermination of ornks, which appear to be the dominant source of protein and leather. Imagination the shockwaves going through society when a major source of food suddenly disappears. Prices skyrocket, people riot or resort to crime to make ends meet, and malnutrition sets in. Plus there's the sudden scarcity of leather. What do you do for new shoes, coats, armor?

Then there's the extermination of loyal serviles. Who does the bulk of the work tending to crops? Transporting goods from place to place? Construction and maintenence of roads and other infrastructure? Everyday necessities like cleaning and cooking? Serviles. Maybe people can step in (there are, after all, going to be a lot of unemployeed people--tanners, ornk shepherds, servile overseers), but probably they won't. There's a lot stacked against them. They have to have to foresight to realize the extent of the problem, then the willingness to do the jobs that were once done by slaves, then they need the knowledge and physical ability to do their new jobs, and then they have to deal with the logistics of getting people to where the work is and the finished goods to where they are most needed. So now there is severe famine and shortage of supplies pretty much everywhere. What happens after that? Do epidemics of disease spread now that starvation is rampant, sanitation is in the pot, and medicinal herbs and potions can't be traded very far? Does the Shaper army get the supplies it needs, or do people start deserting and become bandits? Does another rebellion start once word gets out that everything is the fault of a Shaper while the other Shapers sat back and did nothing to stop him?

The remaining Shapers will probably be trying to come up with new creations to replace the ornks and serviles and other creations, or shape new creations once the disease is gone, but shaping ornks and serviles is hard work that few Shapers know how to do (plus the disease can always come back) while developing new creations is a very slow process that tends to result in new forms of rogues and disease about as often as it does successes. Given that even Shapers will ignore the rules and they are in a dire situation, a new rogue or disease is bound to escape and exacerbate the situation. And they'll be doing all this after a catastrophic loss of information because servant minds do most of the administrative and logistical duties. Shapers rarely write things down because they have servant minds to care about that stuff, only know the servant minds are dead. What supplies does a facility have? Where do new supplies come in from? How do the alchemical vats work? Who even works at the facility? And if an uprising occurs, the loss of servant minds will be even worse for the army. Who is keeping track of troop movements? Who is keeping track of making sure the troops get food and other supplies? The Shapers in charge of the army will have no idea what is happening on the front lines and will be unable to give intelligent orders. Depending on what Taygen's disease does, they may or may not be able to use creations to scout or to fight. And that's crippling. What do you do if significant chunk of your army could fall over dead at any time? Do you even have any reliable tactics that don't require creations? What happens to the morale of your army when human casualties increase now that humans have to take on roles once filled by creations?

Human society will probably recover, but not before hundreds of thousands to millions die. And there's no guarantee that the Shapers will remain in charge or that society will be as advanced as it was beforehand. And that's if Taygen's plan goes off perfectly instead of the disease mutating to become Shaper influenza or lethal to shaped plants or anything. Basically, Taygen's plan really, really sucks even if you are the most anti-creation person out there.

You know, in case "genocide" wasn't enough of a red flag for you.

Dikiyoba.

[Catoblepas]

Exactly! Taygen's plan is not only completely evil, it is also very stupid. If the shapers wiped out all creations, the economy, armed forces, industry, the ecology etc would all collapse. People would be looking for someone to blame, and the shapers will be there with red on their hands-and more importantly-without any creations to defend themselves from retribution. Without shaping, there isn't anythign seperating Shapers from normal magic users. Realistically, Taygen's 'plan' would be the most sure way of overthrowing the Shapers forever.

 

It's unfortunate that two of the three Shaper factions are horrible choices, but it really narrows down the list of options for us shaper players. I guess that's how I chose to aid Alawan in G5-process of elimination: Rawal and Taygen are horrible options, Rebels are more of the same 'ol bowing and scraping to megalomaniac murderous lizards, and I was barred from joining Astoria and the Trakovites for being too shaper-aligned.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Perhaps a compromise. Genetic Engineering to improve the flaws in creations, dumb down Drayks and Drakons, so on. Sometimes, being on the edge of collapse in attempt to reset can work. I said sometimes... but wouldn't war finish off Terrestria eventually, too?

[kuo]

I love the Awakened. They're actually the most honorable, but unfortunately, being fair doesn't make you win a war.

 

Being a Taker in Geneforge one gives you immunity to Sholai. I like that.

 

Geneforge 2, I chose the Barzites..because I'm power-hungry.

 

I chose Rebel in Geneforge 3 because Greta can do magic.

 

Geneforge 4, I decided to go Shaper instead.

 

Geneforge 5, I like Alwan/Astoria, bit undecided on that.

[Catoblepas]

Originally Posted By: Babster30

Perhaps a compromise. Genetic Engineering to improve the flaws in creations, dumb down Drayks and Drakons, so on. Sometimes, being on the edge of collapse in attempt to reset can work. I said sometimes... but wouldn't war finish off Terrestria eventually, too?

you can win the war for the Shapers without resorting to Taygen's methods, which makes his plan unnecessary to say the absolute least. I went with Alwan, for instance, and he wins the war without resorting to Taygen's methods or having the war 'finish off Terrestria'. Taygen's faction has the misfortune of being both morally reprehensible and simultaneously unnecessary, which makes the faction a poor choice, IMO. Taygen (and Rawal) are just bad factions to join all-around, in my opinion.

The 'ideal' ending, at least for me, would be the destruction of the drakons and dryaks, but with the serviles and rebel humans getting their own country to call their own without Shaper dominance/interference, and both Akhiri Blaze and Rawal dead. This ending is impossible to get, to my knolwedge, esp for Shapers, so I had to settle for Alwan-although I will say I wass impressed by his gesture of mercy in his ending.

[Trenton.]

To kill creations a day after their created and replacing them to prevent all certainties of rogues isn't being a Nazi Shaper?

[Catoblepas]

Seems worse, In my opinion. Taygen gets messed up no matter the ending you choose, so I guess he gets his comeuppance, which was rather satisfying. A shame there is no quest or dialogue option one can take to put Rawal's dirty laundry out for everyone to see (private geneforge, control tools, cannisters, etc) He sorely deserves horrible, horrible things happening to him. A shame you have to choose between Rawal and Greta at the end.

[The Mystic]

G1: Unaligned

G2: Unaligned, though I do lean a little bit towards the Loyalist side (and I normally kill Zakary, so the slight pro-Loyalist lean may be somewhat contradictory).

G3: Shaper, only because I have to choose a side; otherwise, I'd remain Unaligned.

G4: I can't really decide on this one. When I played as a Shaper, it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth; when I played as a Rebel, I gave up since they seemed a bit amoral for my taste. I haven't tried the Trakovite faction yet.

G5: I can't decide yet; I've played it once, and then only about maybe halfway through at most.

[Goettsch]

Originally Posted By: Babster30

I daresay that is Randomizer's quote.

Welcome to the forums, Catoblepas and Goettsch, though I think I've met you in some game before, Goettsch!

If you will play geneforge 1 another time,join me

ahhh,and Taygen is mad,the shapers don't create only serviles and ornks but threes,birds and other animals too.

[Trenton.]

Exactly. Unless they immediately start creating ornks... Well, lets just say hunger will be a problem.

[Catoblepas]

Yeah, Shapers are responsible for creating entire ecosystems. Without the shapers or their terraforming, a lot of the places which are inhabited in the Geneforge games would be uninhabited. Now imagine the consequences when Taygen's virus kills destroys those ecosystems-what will happen to the people living there?

[Goettsch]

So,Goettsch is the best

[Trenton.]

I forgot. Shapers shape plants and crops too...

 

 

 

Ouch. Not a smart move, Taygen.

[Spddin Ignis]

Shapers all the way for me. I realize that they have their flaws, but their laws and restrictions are for the best and keep things relatively peaceful and prosperous.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Except for Geneforge 1 and 2, Shapers seem to be the way to go. Thanks for the feedback, guys!

[RaustBlackDragon]

I've been playing through Geneforge 1 and I think I'm approaching the end. The only group I don't know much about is Goettsch, so I'm reserving judgment on that one, but I have to say that I don't find any of the other factions appealing at all, and I'll explain my reasoning below:

 

Obeyers: My least favorite of the factions. It's so astronomically depressingly totalitarian, they're basically a cargo cult that worships the shapers, yet actively resist ANY attempt at reform and label you the equivalent of a false god if you attempt to treat them with any kind of dignity.

 

Awakened: Definitely an improvement over the Obeyers, and definitely the most reasonable of the factions, but they're also the least likely to survive any contact with shaper society, and if they think there's any hope of coexisting with shapers without bloodshed, they're hopelessly naive. It's kinda awkward washing ashore on an island with no information regarding how shaper society normally behaves, but it seems fairly obvious that they'd just be seen as "defective" servants and be promptly destroyed.

 

Takers: Not nearly as bad as the other factions make them out to be, but they're clearly on the "terrorists" side of the "terrorists-freedom fighters" scale. They'd probably have a better chance of getting me on their side if they asked me to assassinate the Obeyers leader, rather than the Awakened one. But even then, they also asked me to murder that nice group of Sholai refugees.

 

Trajkov: Haven't met the guy in person, but I seriously doubt I'm going to like the guy unless everything I've heard about him is an incredibly organized and consistent lie. It sounds like he's completely insane and power-mad, and even if he isn't, he's gonna have to do quite a bit to make up for stranding me here in the first place.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

To find Goettsch, I highly suggest not entering through Spirits' City. Enter the Sentinels first (that's the east entrance to The Great Temple)... I think I ****ed my self over by not talking to that old servile first.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

The poll seemed to have vanished... I will work this out...

[RaustBlackDragon]

I honestly don't understand why people would side with the obeyers in geneforge 1. Babster, can you explain your reasoning in more detail? I'd be really interested to hear it.

[Sudanna]

You support the Obeyers if you support the Shapers and want to leave the island in good standing with them.

[RaustBlackDragon]

You support the Obeyers if you support the Shapers and want to leave the island in good standing with them.

But why would you support the shapers? What righteous cause are they fighting for?

[nikki.]

Many people on these boards support the Shapers: I guess the idea that they're not the ones causing a huge civil war is something a lot of people like. Also, you know, they created the serviles, and some people might consider that gives them a sort of authority over them. Personally I favour the rebellion, but I think it's probably fair to say that never side is particularly good, nor particularly noble.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

I honestly don't understand why people would side with the obeyers in geneforge 1.

Their devotion towards shapers would actually be admirable if it wasn't sheer madness.

[RaustBlackDragon]

Their devotion towards shapers would actually be admirable if it wasn't sheer madness.

 

I see it as a rather depressing cargo cult. Shaperkind creates things capable of sentience and emotions, and simultaneously cares absolutely nothing for the wellbeing of those creatures. The fact that they haven't devoted any effort whatsoever into making creations that can't suffer or feel pain is something I consider to be inexcusable. It's not that they lament that they can't accomplish that, they just don't care at all, and they look down upon those who do.

[Dikiyoba]

The Obeyers have a lot of faults, but they do have one of the better ideas for what to do with the, uh, endgame object (in case you haven't figured out what it is). The Awakened sound really good but their final plan is... terrible, in multiple senses of the word.

 

Dikiyoba usually stays unaligned until close to the end and then joins the Obeyers. Since we want the same fate for the island and the Obeyers happen to be offering some goodies, well...

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

The Obeyers, as Nayld said, support the Shapers. Thus, if you support the Shapers, you support the Obeyers. In addition to this, the Obeyers are enemies of the dreaded Sholai, my arch rivals. If I could go Taygen on all of them, I would... but not in a crazy way, just like wipe them off Sucia... I believe they are excellent navigators, therefore they crossed the illegedly impossible to cross icy sea... anyhow... I hate them... The end...

 

THIS IS WHY I SUPPORT THE OBEYERS... BECAUSE THE SHOLAI MAKE ME MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

P.S. I am only slightly insane.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

I believe, as I reread that that I went off topic... slightly... anyhow... I support the Obeyers because I both hate the Sholai and because I love the Shapers. If you loved the Shapers, you would wipe out the Sholai, Takers, Awakened, and Goettsch (A Shaper does not augment himself).

 

Sorry about the Double post.

[RaustBlackDragon]

Is the mac version completely different from the PC version or something? What exactly did the sholai do as a whole that's so worthy of death?

[The Reverend]

Is the mac version completely different from the PC version or something? What exactly did the sholai do as a whole that's so worthy of death?

No, I don't think the stories are different between the versions. I think it's just that some players are pro-shaper, in which case the Sholai would be viewed as the enemies.

[RaustBlackDragon]

No, I don't think the stories are different between the versions. I think it's just that some players are pro-shaper, in which case the Sholai would be viewed as the enemies.

 

Well sure, but then that brings us back to our original problem. What's so wonderful about the shapers ideological goals? Why is the continued subjugation of the sentient serviles noble, or at least a necessary evil?