Burgeoning Battle Gamma Cpt. Charles Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I am undecided on this issue. I really enjoy games like Age of Empires, where, basically, if your strategy is sound you will win the battle. In Wesnoth, you will probably defeat your enemy with a better strategy, but sometimes you just can't hit the right units or something similar (For this reason, in Wesnoth, I try to make sure I always have extra units that can attack in case the front liners keep missing). It is fun to have that element of risk with an RNG, and it forces you to adapt in case your tactic fails. However, I also like having a sound game plan that I know will work, which is easy in a game like AoE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I sort of prefer this system more. It's true that merely using a "sound" strategy still risks losing, but an even better strategy will anticipate the risks, include contingencies and backup tactics, and decrease that risk. A sufficiently relatively superior strategy (at least from fair starting conditions) can lead to a virtually certain victory. As you mention: Quote: (For this reason, in Wesnoth, I try to make sure I always have extra units that can attack in case the front liners keep missing). Part of a sound strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Cpt. Charles Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Heh. Yeah. I suppose when I said a sound strategy, I meant a simple strategy. AoE is kind of like chess, certain moves and units are better than others, period. The risk in that game is not doing the right thing to beat your enemy. The risk in Wesnoth is that all your guys or the key units in your plan will miss over and over. You're right though, when making a plan in Wesnoth, you have to take into account the probability of units hitting their targets. It's just that sometimes even the best of plans can fail, which is irritating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Here's another take on differences between games, although this one starts out attempting to analyze pre-existing labels ("Euro" vs "Ameritrash") rather than with maths. I think the point about drama is especially relevant to the differing opinions about Wesnoth. Wesnoth's design philosophy is definitely oriented more towards drama than towards elegance or realism. For those of us who've been more frustrated with its RNG, that may reflect our own design preferences. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1268120#1268120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Anyway, here's an article I remember reading on the topic of randomness in games. It's written by Mark Rosewater about Magic, so skim over the examples if you're not familiar with that game, but a lot of the points apply to computer games (and other games) as well. For me, like many others here, randomness is good in some games mainly because it stops players from "mathing out" before doing anything, and because it spreads decision points throughout play. (@Rowen: I can't speak for all card games, but while the outcome of an individual game has high variance, over time skill does play a factor. Assuming both players have comparable decks, of course.) Originally Posted By: Slarty Originally Posted By: Dintiradan Interesting model of luck and skill in (board) games. Well, interesting for me at least, and maybe you'll find it interesting as well. Thanks for posting the link. Very interesting. What did you think of it, Dinti? I end up liking/disliking computer/board games based on mechanics more often than stuff like depth and luck. Also, I'm too much of a dilettante to be skilled in any one game. Anyway, the coordinates of the games we choose ends up being chosen by whatever the group is in the mood for (usually vetoed by the host). Sometimes you want a brain burner, sometimes a party game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dintiradan Anyway, here's an article I remember reading on the topic of randomness in games. It's written by Mark Rosewater about Magic, so skim over the examples if you're not familiar with that game, but a lot of the points apply to computer games (and other games) as well. For me, like many others here, randomness is good in some games mainly because it stops players from "mathing out" before doing anything, and because it spreads decision points throughout play. it also means you have an external factor to blame when you lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dintiradan Anyway, here's an article I remember reading on the topic of randomness in games. It's written by Mark Rosewater about Magic, so skim over the examples if you're not familiar with that game, but a lot of the points apply to computer games (and other games) as well. For me, like many others here, randomness is good in some games mainly because it stops players from "mathing out" before doing anything, and because it spreads decision points throughout play. I'm sorry, I couldn't take anything he said seriously after he claimed that A New Hope was better than Empire Strikes Back. Also, his argument that chess is essentially random because a player doesn't know what lines will be effective against your opponent is stupid in addition to being wrong- not only are the vast majority of master-level games published, enabling review of them to analyze weaknesses, but t really doesn't take many games at all to get a feeling of an opponent's play style. He really should stick to Magic rather than attempting to defend his pet theory by spouting off about games he has no clue what he's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Right now, I'm having a serious debate in my mind. Do I care if Dantius can't take anything I say seriously again? --- The Rosewater article is interesting, and most of the individual statements he makes are true, but I really disagree with the conclusions he draws. I think he has left out a lot, and in some cases settled on superficial explanations for more complicated phenomena. For example, his statement that gamers will accept dice in Monopoly but not Magic solely because of "preconceived expectations" ignores the fact that those are dramatically different games with very little in common. I wrote that, and then I read the mini-article on Chess. Oh god. Now I can't take anything he says seriously again. Chess: random, with playstyle trumping analysis. >.< That's too bad, as I've tended to like his expansions more than most. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 *boop* So I never really got anywhere with a who-is-online thing or a replays thing, it turns out that the server documentation is more-or-less nonexistent. woohoo. but is anyone interested on doing a big ol' group match sometime? It would be neat if we could get like a 4v4 battle of all SWers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'd be up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'll join. Imma been practizens mah skilzes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody BJ Back From the Beyond Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm always up for a challenge, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 If anyone happens to be around tonight, there will be a game starting in about half an hour. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I could be in over the weekend, Saturday night / Sunday morning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Sure, a game this weekend would be swell. Aran, is that 'merca night or Europe night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Cpt. Charles Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I'll try to join sometime in the evening of Saturday or Sunday. 'Merca time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Saturday night on the east coast, Sunday morning in Europe. Yeah, that was kind of vague. Think I'll start idling around 22:00 UTC (18:00 East). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 I'll try to pop in after FoD gets done, if I'm not too tired. That reminds me, I still have to do the log for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 So 12/1 AM EDT? x.x You guys are pushing it. I could probably get on, but not indeffinetly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 that was just for me personally, i was not suggesting that time for anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm down for a game tomorrow (saturday). I'll be in the lobby all day prolly, if I don't respond stab me on AIM or in the calref chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'll have the window open all day as well. I would have it open everyday, but it has been so empty >.> I'll check every five minutes or so if anyones there, so if you come and I'm not talking, don't be discourage, just wait a little while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Originally Posted By: The AwEsOmE and Wise FlUtTeRtReE I'll have the window open all day as well. I would have it open everyday, but it has been so empty >.> I'll check every five minutes or so if anyones there, so if you come and I'm not talking, don't be discourage, just wait a little while. Ditto. I haven't been checking as often because every time I do, there's no one there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody BJ Back From the Beyond Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Well, I just logged in, and plan to be up for pretty much the rest of the night. Anyone looking for a challenge is welcome to stop by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I'm getting on right now and will be on for a while. Come if you want a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Currently on, and will probably wait about an hour for someone to show up.. I'll also attempt to show up over the week-end, too. If I'm not immediately responsive, just give it a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody BJ Back From the Beyond Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I'll try to be on this weekend (meaning today and tomorrow) too. In fact, I'm on right now if anyone is wanting to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I'll be on for quite a while if anyone wants to play. Last night we had 7 members on. This game sure has become popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I'll probably be on for the rest of the day today, in case anyone wants to test their mettle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'll be on for a few hours if anyone wants to play a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'm getting a "Could not connect to host" error when I try to log on. Is this a server problem or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody BJ Back From the Beyond Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'm getting the same message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Yeah, Dikiyoba receives the same message, so it's something on the server's end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Sorry, I restarted the VM earlier today and wesnothd isn't in the init.d. Server is back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 So, um. Remember how I said I was going to create a fancy thing that would show you who was on the calref wesnoth server and all that? Well, I spent a rather ominous four-hour coding spree on it, and I now have a chunk of JSON that is updated every five minutes. The data is available here. Anyone is more than welcome to use this as a source of data for their personal interfaces, as long as they don't DDoS me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'd be up for a game if anyone wants a match. PM me. 2100 Posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 hahahahahaaaaa guess what it turns out that game hash values can have brackets in them. this means i have to completely rewrite the WML parsing system. *eyetwitch* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 That was a fine number of hours wasted huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 It is done. Now I think I shall go work on getting nick registrations working. woohoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: Future Wonderbolt So, um. Remember how I said I was going to create a fancy thing that would show you who was on the calref wesnoth server and all that? Well, I spent a rather ominous four-hour coding spree on it, and I now have a chunk of JSON that is updated every five minutes. The data is available here. Anyone is more than welcome to use this as a source of data for their personal interfaces, as long as they don't DDoS me. Originally Posted By: Future Wonderbolt It is done. Now I think I shall go work on getting nick registrations working. woohoo. You are awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 In related news, I am being completely honest when I say that the wesnoth server has the worst documentation of any open-source project I have ever used. It's like they are actively trying to make it a pain in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Originally Posted By: Future Wonderbolt It is done. That looks really neat, I want to play the game too as soon as I get myself a good connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Cpt. Charles Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I'm on right now if anyone wants to play. Haven't noticed anybody on the last several evenings. Maybe I log in too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 It's sort of dying. Maybe Jeff should buy out the game so it become an official spidweb game, and we all play it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Originally Posted By: Syk. It's sort of dying. Maybe Jeff should buy out the game so it become an official spidweb game, and we all play it more. open source, you can't just 'buy it out' because even if you did (which you wouldn't, since most FOSS developers don't fancy proprietary software), all previous versions would still be GPLed and someone would just fork it, so you wouldn't make any money. that being said, the best method for this problem is to schedule a wesnoth night where everyone can play, instead of saying "i'm on tonight, bee tee dubs". not that there is anything wrong with that, but knowing in advance will allow people to maybe be able to make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I haven't been able to get on a lot lately because Real Life has been rather busy. So... yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Cpt. Charles Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Syk. It's sort of dying. Why is everything dying? BoA, Exile, the Geneforge forums, and now Wesnoth. It hardly even began... Well, I'll be on most evenings, except Thursday's usually. I just check in every few minutes and if no one is on I log off. It'll be hard to shedule a big game, maybe something like was done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I got distracted by stuff and forgot about this; assuming Sylae still has his server up, I may go on tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Sylae still has her server up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm on right now if anyone wants a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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