Jump to content

Kill Redbeard? Forget it!!!


adc.

Recommended Posts

  • 1 month later...

Phew. Thanks everybody for this thread. I've just finally managed to kill Redbeard on normal difficulty after about a day of trying. That was so hardcore that I just want to share my story in case it would be useful for someone else. :)

 

First of all, I was self-confident enough to totally screw up my preparations: just before starting the final quest, I took some time to kill Beloch (no problem at all) and Zephyrine (hard, but totally realistic once you realize that her watchers don't really heal themselves too much if you concentrate on taking them out - at first, I thought that this was something similar to Moritz'kri's twin zombies). Anyway, after killing the dragon, I thought to myself: "nothing will be harder than that", and just sold most of my (mostly unused) potions, wands etc. to get some expensive equipment. I only left myself a lot of healing items, 10 or 11 phoenix shards, and just a little bit of everything else - like 6-9 of each strongest kind, evenly spread throughout the 3-man party. And some staves of ice, corruption and calling (these kinds were the most useful ones throughout the game, so I though I won't really need the others). Well, all of this turned out to be a huge mistake, but it was too late when I discovered it. :) I didn't even have a save BEFORE starting the end-game adventure at that point, as it was as eventful as it promised to...

 

And now, to the battle with Redbeard. I've tried several different tactics, but here's what worked eventually:

 

1) Before you talk with him, enter fight mode and position your party members:

 

- 1a - the one with highest dexterity (to move first) must stand near one of the switches. He must be able to teleport - i.e. either be a shadowwalker (shadowstep) or wear the scarab with teleportation ability.

- 1b - spread everybody else somewhere along the south wall, where the secret doors are. Not too close to Redbeard, but close enough to attack him.

 

2) Pre-summon the strongest pets you can (my main character was a shaman, so I could summon a drake by her and the weakest kind of salamander by Jenell, who was mostly specialized on combat).

 

3) Start the combat. You might have to replay this a few times until the random things get a suitable enough:

 

- 3a - you must be able to hurt Redbeard enough in 1-2 turns and force him to make his first "offer" and start summoning soul jars.

- 3b - the character standing near the switch doesn't take part in this combat. He (Shima in my case) just waits.

- 3c - the first soul jar must be in the room Shima opened! Don't bother to open the second room.

- 3d - Redbeard should not successfully use terrify until you open the secret door and step inside (see below). If that happens, chances are you'll lose too much time for a good start.

- 3e - use summoned pets to keep Redbeard busy and hurt him a bit more. Both drake and salamander have fire-breathing abilities which are pretty useful (not as much as sorceress skills, but still good).

 

4) Once tbe first stage is done, move ALL of your characters into the room with the first soul jar and take it out as fast as you can. Also "let go" of Redbeard with your pets and lure him into the same room, then try to keep him somewhere near the entrance (as far from your party as you can).

 

5) Tactics for the rest of second stage (until Redbeard's second "offer"): kill soul jars quickly if they appear in your room, then concentrate on Redbeard. If another jar appears - break it. If it appears in the other room - ignore it. You can still deal enough damage to Redbeard while there's less than 3 jars. Make good use of haste, war chant, phoenix gems etc (I didn't have much, but it proved enough). Don't heal to often, but try to do it before anyone dies (I believe I finished this battle without resurrection, though I had some scrolls). If Redbeard succeeds in using charm or terrify - don't hesitate to cast group mental cure from a scarab (that requires some luck to avoid stunning/terrifying/charming of the one who wields that scarab - was Nathalie in my case).

 

6) Once Redbeard makes his second offer, even if you were lucky to get all jars in your room before, now he will start summoning them really fast, so you'll have a hard time disposing of them. Luckily, you can still ignore them while there's less than three. As soon as he creates a third one - destroy it (otherwise Redbeard is almost immune to everything, and damaging him for a max of 10-15 HP is clearly not enough even when he's almost dead - I've lost one of my attempts because I risked fighting him with 3 jars alive, until he finally overwhelmed me with the 4th one and I was out of everything). If a jar appears close to you and you think you can destroy it real fast (1-2 turns) - then maybe destroy it too. Otherwise - keep striking Redbeard as hard as you can. Refresh your summons when you can - their fire breathing still helps! AND DON'T FORGET PHOENIX SHARDS - if you not use them now, then when?! They REALLY help getting a lot of damage through in just a few turns. If you do everything all right, the Keeper will fall eventually... :)

 

Well, that's about it. And just a few useful notes on immunities:

 

- Soul Jars are vulnerable to fire, frost and acid, but not energy and lightning. Physical damage works too.

- Redbeard is vulnerable to pretty much anything while there's not too much Soul Jars present. Try to blast him with energy abilities when you can, save everything else for jars if possible.

- Earthquake is disappointingly useless (too weak), except it sometimes helps to knock Redbeard back a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...he gets away? I thought he just goes into super death mode at the end with all the stat boosts. Huh.

 

Wayfarer wasn't very hard, Miranda was ridiculously hard with your player character, red beard was a joke and just used the soul jars to support himself. Redbeard=more rogue than the wayfarer. Because he used his hidden ginger powers to make him impossible to kill. I still enjoy fighting him though because I still like his personality and character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Prompted Query-It would appear that red beard is very powerful in the first game. Some of the tales about him are told of in legend. Whenever a red-haired boy in the tawon perishes, one of his soon to be grey hairs on his beard gets turned fiery red. Because the tawon was very powerful in first game, there would be no limit to guesses on how powerful he was then.

In the 2nd game that effect is lifted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found the difference between a 2 hour fight and a 30 minute or less fight with Redbeard was using every single item I could, using the strongest ones early (once you get to the soul jars portion of the fight), which I had hoarded because I have problems 83. Even using weak wands to get a few damage helps. Stack poison, corruption, and acid on Redbeard and the soul jars. Use status effects. Use your buffing items. Have everyone summon a helper with a wand of summoning, and use these little pokemons to eat damage for you. Spread out the crystals, potions, and wands among your party and keep everyone hasted/frenzied and well-warded. Maximizing your item use means maximizing the utility of your AP, and this is the pivot point at which a really, really hard battle becomes only a matter of time. Granted, I defeated him on Normal--ymmv on higher difficulties, but I imagine items are still essential for victory under those conditions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I think this goes back to the famous quote in Avadon/Farland history. A few traitorous hands tried to sneak attack the old guy. A message was scratched in to form a stated fact-"If Redbeard breathes; you cant kill it." He's not human anymore so don't forget that. He's like a monk in dungeons and dragons. He's reached that level and is no longer human. You can try and defeat him but if he takes just 1 breath, your finished. Haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just did my fourth playthrough (all on an iPad). I think I've finally changed my mind. The Redbeard fight was actually kind of fun this time. I did it on Torment, with a party similar to my third playthrough party.

 

All characters were high-Dex ranged physical attackers (razordisk, bow, javelin) except Nathalie, who was a high-Int staff-user. Everyone had a little bit of something else, too, mostly End, but some Str for the BM. Everyone focused on the middle column, most with the first two skills on left and right as well, except the Shaman, who was a drake summoner. Everyone had class equipment and otherwise top-level equipment with enhancements on everything that would take an enhancement. I hadn't used any scrolls and few potions or other consumables up to that point, so I had tons of them and split them across pretty much every character. I distributed scarabs really carefully, too. (Somehow I missed one, because I only had 19.)

 

Basically, everyone attacked at range, and I made sure that everyone could get Battle Frenzy whenever, with a potion or a scarab or something else. My main damage-dealers were the lead character (a SW), the BM, and the SO; for some reason, the other SW and the SH weren't terribly effective and doing much damage, but I got some good summoning out of the Shaman (and the BM with a scarab). Three different characters (both SWs and Nathalie with a scarab) could teleport.

 

The method that ended up working out pretty well was to hit Redbeard hard until he made his first offer (which ended up taking off a lot of his health), then teleport to the switches and trip them, leaving Redbeard to deal with my summons, and sprint everyone over to the two side passages (with my main SW and the BM on one side and the others on the other), eventually drawing Redbeard into one of the passages. The core attackers ended up doing enough damage that there rarely were three soul jars and never got to be four, and I usually had one attacker hitting Redbeard on each turn even as I took down the soul jars (though when it got up to three, I quit for a bit until I got rid of all of them — though I think right at the end I gave up on that and just hit Redbeard for all I was worth, because his health was so low by that point).

 

One tricky thing — which screwed me up twice, until I figured it out on the third try — was that, after the second offer, Redbeard had a circle effect that could kill Nathalie in a single hit, so I had to make sure to get her over to the other side passage, where Redbeard was not. I ended up using teleportation a few times, mostly getting from one end of the passage (to hit a soul jar) to the other (to get over to the other passage).

 

It ended up being pretty fun, because it was no longer a lengthy but boring battle with nothing happening most of the time. It was a lengthy fight, for sure, but there was a lot more going on all the time. I had to manage the summons keeping Redbeard away from me, make sure my characters were in the right places, burn consumables pretty much continuously to heal and keep Battle Frenzy, run through all kinds of abilities to do direct damage, teleport on occasion to jump past ugly scrums, and divide my damage between the soul jars and Redbeard, but it ended up being pretty eventful on every turn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Just spent over hour trying to kill Redbeard and before he killed Shima and Jenell he didn't have much health left (red bar was visible by few inch) and then in 2 turns he killed both Shima and Jenell (both had full health) and then he came to left jar room and killed Nathalie after few rounds and few rounds later Cordelia got killed too. He resurrects jars just too quickly, once I had got 1 destroyed and Jenel hit Redbeard with her main attack and on next turn Redbeard summoned that jar back so Shiva's turn got wasted.

 

JV really doesn't want us to kill Rb since even with Avernum rules aka spells can be used as much as wants getting 2 jars destroyed would take time.

 

Also Redbeard is more lucky than player since when he had only haste on he got 2 attacks per turn more often than my party.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Done with Avadon 1, on 2nd attempt all went somewhat smoothly except Shima got too often charmed or other some other mindeffect so that round got wasted and after Shima got killed (somehow Redbeard suddenly managed to deal massive damage and resurrection scrolls were in Shima's inventory) I had only shaman (Jenell) fighting (with wind to prevent Redbeard attacking) against Redbeard and then Redbeard decided to goto same chamber where Cordelia and Natalie were and shaman (Jenell) on other side of room hugging wall so she couldn't attack Redbeard for next couple rounds and right after Cordelia and Natalie got 1 jar destroyed Redbeard summoned replacement and after that I got enough of that fight.

 

Redbeard is just too powerful, unlimited or short cooling down on special attacks and even with only hasted he did 2 attacks per round or move and attack very often and with battle frenzy+haste he could move and do 2 attacks (melee and special or 2 specials) and player can do only 2 attacks per round with battle frenzy. Many rounds Cordelia and Natalie spent doing nothing since no jars to attack (in chamber they were) and too far to attack Redbeard and some rounds they had ~halfway of killing 2nd jar when Redbeard summoned new jar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Done with Avadon 1, on 2nd attempt all went somewhat smoothly except Shima got too often charmed or other some other mindeffect so that round got wasted and after Shima got killed (somehow Redbeard suddenly managed to completely deal massive damage and resurrection scrolls were in Shima's inventory)

 

This is why it's a good idea to split up important items like Return Life scrolls across your whole party.

 

Redbeard is just too powerful, unlimited or short cooling down on special attacks and even with only hasted he did 2 attacks per round or move and attack very often and with battle frenzy+haste he could move and do 2 attacks (melee and special or 2 specials) and player can do only 2 attacks per round with bf.

 

The party should definitely have Battle Frenzy active all the time during the Redbeard fight. Now's the time to use all the speed potions and speed burst scrolls you've been saving up throughout the game -- it's not like you'll need them afterwards.

 

Many rounds C and N spent doing nothing since no jars to attack and too far to attack Redbeard(and usually Rb's 1st attack left Shima uncapacitated) and some rounds they had ~halfway of killing 2nd jar when new appeared.

 

I found it was better to put your jar-killers in different jar rooms so that they can wear down all the jars evenly and then kill them all at once. Gives you more time to do more damage before too many of them are revived again.

 

I notice you didn't mention Sevelin the blademaster in either account of the fight. Did you not obtain his loyalty? Apart from being a strong combatant in his own right, he's also a good source of battle frenzy for the party. You can use all five of your characters at once in the Redbeard fight, and the game expects you to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I let that person (fiend) who killed Sevelin's friend go so no Sevelin in Redbeard battle (I was loyal to Avadon) and no interest to play before that point onwards again (I have quicksave before that meeting object of Sevelin's personal quest),

 

I had gotten 2 resurrection scrolls (and somewhere in Redbeard's chambers has 3rd).

 

Battle frenzy goes waste if Redbeard manages with some of his attacks to for example to charm or terrify 1 character.

 

I have found ~60 potions which give battle frenzy on 5 or 9 turns (Cordelia and Natalie used ~12 of those while killing soul jars) and 2 speed burst scrolls (and Shima got sometimes battle frenzy when attacked (not useful due what's above).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Earth Empires, in the interest of keeping the boards clean, please use complete sentences and avoid excessive abbreviations. We don't ask for perfect grammar, but you need to make an effort to write readable posts. And right now, you're below an appropriate standard.

 

Remember that moderators have to read everything that you write, because we have to make sure that you're not violating the CoC. So when it's really hard/annoying to read, it makes our jobs harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Redbeard vs rebellious hands fight 2 (Avadon 2): That fight felt way too easy since after ~3 rounds Redbeard was down to half a health and ghost constructs he summoned didn't do anything (99.999% of time so dunno what was their purpose (distraction?)) and Redbeard didn't have anywhere near as powerful abilities (like 3-4 attacks per round or very damaging aoe-attack) as he had in Avadon 1 (only once main char was in brink of death in Avadon 2 fight) nor was his strength or resistance (sure he was quite immune to stuns, ensnaring, etc but that's expected) since my chars dealt easily 40+ dmg on him and turrets (2 inferno and 1 temporal) so battle was over quickly. After battle in Avadon 1 I expected more challenge but didn't get much so no any kind of satisfaction on killing him.

 

Went thru all endings and seems that player being Keeper was best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Redbeard vs rebellious hands fight 2 (Avadon 2): That fight felt way too easy since after ~3 rounds Redbeard was down to half a health and ghost constructs he summoned didn't do anything (99.999% of time so dunno what was their purpose (distraction?))

 

It takes a few turns before they start to act. You're supposed to kill them before that happens, because once they do start acting they're pretty dangerous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Earth Empires, in the interest of keeping the boards clean, please use complete sentences and avoid excessive abbreviations. We don't ask for perfect grammar, but you need to make an effort to write readable posts. And right now, you're below an appropriate standard.

 

Remember that moderators have to read everything that you write, because we have to make sure that you're not violating the CoC. So when it's really hard/annoying to read, it makes our jobs harder.

Ayyyy the man is clearly ESL, stop triggering you cis-privileged mod!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ayyyy the man is clearly ESL, stop triggering you cis-privileged mod!

 

What made you think it was a good idea to swoop in out of nowhere to respond to a polite moderator instruction to another poster from weeks ago and take a dig at trans people in the process? Don't do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What made you think it was a good idea to swoop in out of nowhere to respond to a polite moderator instruction to another poster from weeks ago and take a dig at trans people in the process? Don't do that.

What part of that was a dig at trans people?

 

And for all we know, Earth Empires could be a kind foreigner attempting to improve his English through communicating with others on this forum. He could also be mentally disabled. I think it's very rude to call people out on their grammar and sentence structure, and it's very triggering to me. Kelandon went right ahead and called Earth Empires annoying, hard to read, and "below an appropriate standard." I am offended by this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What part of that was a dig at trans people?

 

Why did you use the phrase "cis-privileged" in the context of a conversation that had nothing to do with cisness or transness, if not to have an excuse to mock the concept?

 

And for all we know, Earth Empires could be a kind foreigner attempting to improve his English through communicating with others on this forum. He could also be mentally disabled. I think it's very rude to call people out on their grammar and sentence structure, and it's very triggering to me. Kelandon went right ahead and called Earth Empires annoying, hard to read, and "below an appropriate standard." I am offended by this.

 

Whether or not English is Earth Empires' first language, English is the main language used on this forum. While we don't expect perfect spelling or grammar, we do expect members to be able to produce posts that are at least comprehensible. Earth Empires has a history of making posts that don't contribute usefully to discussion because they're unreadable or full of false information, to the point where they make it harder for other forum members to find accurate and understandable advice. I'm sorry if you find it upsetting, but giving Earth Empires a friendly instruction to put more effort into making his posts readable was a decision made after considerable discussion among the moderation staff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why did you use the phrase "cis-privileged" in the context of a conversation that had nothing to do with cisness or transness, if not to have an excuse to mock the concept?

 

Because I'm very upset at the lack of respect that these #gamergate trolls are showing towards my friends and I. I happen to be trans myself.

 

Whether or not English is Earth Empires' first language, English is the main language used on this forum. While we don't expect perfect spelling or grammar, we do expect members to be able to produce posts that are at least comprehensible. Earth Empires has a history of making posts that don't contribute usefully to discussion because they're unreadable

 

Have you considered asking him why he has a problem making coherent posts? I equate this to the man screaming at the Mexican people working at McDonald's because they can't understand his thick redneck accent.

 

I'm sorry if you find it upsetting, but giving Earth Empires a friendly instruction to put more effort into making his posts readable was a decision made after considerable discussion among the moderation staff.

 

I'm very upset. There was nothing "friendly" about Kelandon's post.

 

Earth Empires you're below an appropriate standard.

 

You are really hard/annoying to read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because I'm very upset at the lack of respect that these #gamergate trolls are showing towards my friends and I. I happen to be trans myself.

 

I'm trans too. I still don't see what either that or gamergate has to do with anything in this thread.

 

Have you considered asking him why he has a problem making coherent posts? I equate this to the man screaming at the Mexican people working at McDonald's because they can't understand his thick redneck accent.

 

The moderators have communicated with Earth Empires multiple times about the quality of his posting. He's had plenty of opportunities to explain himself if he wants to. Obviously, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to go into detail about any private communication between Earth Empires and the moderation staff on a public forum.

 

I'm very upset. There was nothing "friendly" about Kelandon's post.

 

Many of Earth Empires' posts are difficult to read, and below the standard of readability we expect on these forums. Those seem like simple statements of fact to me, phrased in a reasonably clear and diplomatic way.

 

I don't know what exactly you're trying to achieve, but I don't think you're helping anyone here. Has Earth Empires asked you to intervene on his behalf?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, two things, jtotheroc:

 

1. Earth Empires edited his post after I posted. The post to which I was responding previously was much worse. That post is now fine.

 

2. Trolling the mod staff will get you banned. You have been warned. You may not get another warning.

Edited by Kelandon
Note: There are many things that can be triggering, but seeing someone be asked to write more coherently is not one of them. Obvious troll is obvious.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

jtotheroc,

 

I appreciate where you're coming from on the "give someone a break if English isn't their primary language." That is generally our MO, and you may actually notice that Earth Empires has been a member here for 9 years and nearly 4000 posts... so clearly, no one has been unreasonable about bona fide language difficulties. Kel's point #1 is key here. The original post was very different, and you're responding a month later. :/

 

As Lilith said, it's always been our policy not to make a big deal out of things and certainly not to drag private infractions into the light. However, I'd encourage you to read this more recent warning which goes into some of the context that may not be evident from this thread alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It takes a few turns before they start to act. You're supposed to kill them before that happens, because once they do start acting they're pretty dangerous.

 

1-2 of them acted and threw some aoe-spell (probably Firestorm) but that's it, 1-2 got killed by turrets and respawned and still stood doing nothing. Feels weird.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...