Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 So... If I wanted to play Exile 3 through with a party of 1-3 characters, and no use of the Editor, what do you think the best character builds would be? And what skills should be boosted as the game progresses? Keeping in mind that some things work very differently in E3 than in BoE... (e.g. for starters, throwing weapons actually work in E3.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 It's been a long time for me, but I think with a half-size party you're going to want to double up on roles for everyone. Fighter-priests are easy, and a party of three of those can reap the benefits of joining the Anama at no cost. But mages are good enough that you may want to forego that and do something like two fighter-priests and a mage, or mage-priest. —Alorael, who really doesn't remember E3 well enough. He'll stop making things up and leave the podium to the experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Hmm. I did a little experimenting with a singleton fighter/mage, and discovered that the mage spell Strength is more powerful in E3 than in BoE. With 4 Intelligence, 4 Strength, 4 Edged Weapons, and Magically Apt, it lets you kick goblins around with impunity. Also, Fireball is much more powerful at low levels in E3, so you can deal with spiders and mauve slimes at a distance. I'll see how far I can get this guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I formulated my Mad Monk Squad while playing Exile for basically two reasons; early weapons and armor did not do enough damage or provide enough protection for level 1-3 fighters, and two, there are places where the dungeon drains spell points from your mages and priests or you get slapped with anti-magic fields, leaving them helpless and useless. Basically I had three fighter/priests (level 3 so they could cast Wound), and three mage/priests. With this cross training, I could actually split my party into two 3 character teams, or three 2 character teams. The Plains before Ornotha Ziggurate were easier to work by splitting into fire teams. I would also train my mage/priests to use swords to a limited degree. Gremlin's Gold in E2 and the Tower of Zkall would drain all spell points from your spell casters. The monsters in these dungeons aren't particularly tough, so they didn't have to be Rambo to deal out sufficient punishment. Fighter/Priest works good, because the heavy armor a fighter needs to wear does not hinder using Priest spells. Mage/Priest works well so that you have more than one in your party so you can double up or cover for each other. Remember that heavy encumbrance armor will prevent your mage from being able to case mage spells. My six party breakdown would be: ( Class numbers are I = highest skill, II = medium skill level, III = barely knows it.) ClassI-Fighter/ClassIII-Priest, I-Fighter/II-Priest, + tool use. II-Fighter/II-Priest + Archery I Mage/II-Priest, II-Mage/II-Priest + Lore, II-Mage/I-Priest. I liked the ability for each PC to be able to heal and cure, but when a party of six monks get entangled with a bunch of undead in the Mertix Spiral, or against a Vampire, it is no contest. My gut says that for Exile, the minimum party would be: Class I Fighter/Class I Priest, Class II Fighter/Class II Priest + other skills Class I Mage/ Class I Priest. Massed forces are going to be tricky with only one fire team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 As Harehunter said there are places where you run out of spell energy so stock up on potions and/or get alchemy to make your own. I found at the start that spells work better until you can get fighters up to higher levels. Plus they work better than range weapons except in Tower of Zkal because you have to spend a round recharging from potions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Hmm, yeah, this is what I was missing in BoE. Magic is *way* more powerful in E3 at low levels, to the point that I wonder if the BoE implementation was somehow bugged. I mean, Fireballs from my level 5 character are doing 15-25 damage versus most monsters, compared to 5-10 damage for a similar character and similar monsters in BoE. Re armor, I did kind of forget about that. I haven't encountered any SP draining dungeons or monsters yet, so I'm relying on Strength to just make my character dodge everything. Obviously that will not work later on, but by then I should have at least level 3 priest spells... I figure on switching over mostly to priest spells by the middle of the game. Not the most efficient use of skill points perhaps, but make spells wil get you further earlier... I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Another advantage of starting with level 3 priest, as opposed to building up to it, is that you don't have to spend precious $$$ to buy spells and spell points. Remember, you gain HP as you gain levels, but you have to spend skill points and $$$ to buy spell points. As for the priest spell Wound, it is not overwhelmingly powerful, but it is basically un-blockable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 I've already got spell points, the PC is a level 7 mage... But wait, you have to buy the beginning spells if you don't start with those levels? Eww. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 If you start with those levels, you *don't* have to buy the first three levels of spells. Also, when you *Start* with priest skill, you start with a number of spell points. Once the game is underway, the only way to gain spell points is to buy them. They're cheap at one skill point for two spell points. Check out the History of the Mad Monk Squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Yeah, that's what I thought you said. Funny, I never figured that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Thaluikhain Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Buying spells? In E3 and BoE, everyone knows the same spell list regardless if they can actually cast them, which is most of levels 1-3, some stuff like identify, conflagration and so on still need to be bought or found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Sadly, Mage spells cost more than Priest. Money wise and skill point wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Now that you mention it, I seem to remember in writing my BoE Scenario Editor that the list of spells you could buy in shops BEGAN with Level 4 spells with only a few that had to be acquired by other means such as identify and ritual of sanctification. Ergo, with no way to sell those L1-L3 spells, there is no need to buy them. I may have mixed my Avernum with my Exile again in this regard. Be that as it may, there is still an advantage to learning mage or priest skill at party design time, rather than adding it during the game; once game play starts, it takes skill points AND money to add a skill level. More to my point, the priest wound spell is more effective IMHO than a stone sword in the hands of a level 1 swordsman with only a leather tunic for protection. In Avernum, if I remember correctly, it does not cost money, but you do have to buy the lower level spells if you did not start out knowing them. On the other hand, low level melee skills are more on an equal footing with the enemies you are likely to meet. There are tradeoffs either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Yes, BoE automatically gives you all level 1-3 spells. In Exile 3 you had to buy or find some of these spells, such as Identify or Ritual of Sanctification. Same in Exile 2; I don't remember about the original Exile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I just checked Exile. You start knowing all the level 1-3 mage and priest spells; however, the spell list is much smaller compared to E2, E3, and BoE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Yep. They still have the area of effect spells, but no multi-target spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Actually, there are a LOT of spells in the later games that aren't in the original Exile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Like I said, I got confused between Exile and Avernum. Different games, different rules. BTW, I actually prefer the area effect spells of Exile over the multi-target ones of Avernum. It makes it easier to position Wall of Blades for maximum efficiency if you can target any space. I always liked Wall of Blades. It's like laying a minefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Exile area effect spells allowed you to target monsters around corners without exposing yourself to line of sight attacks by centering it near the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I found this to be extremely useful against enemy archers and spellcasters, especially around certain corners where they could see (and target) you, but you couldn't see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 Thanks for the clarification re spells... Shame low-level casting is so much worse in BoE, in E3 it's quite the strategy. (And I love glass cannon characters.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Thaluikhain Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I think with big area effect spells like Firestorm, terrain could also shield certain squares from the effect, like if you have a wall directly between you and the centre of the template, which is nice, though I'd like to have seen the squares that are hit take more damage, but that's a bit over complicated. Oh, with bigger monsters, they just took the same damage as everyone else right, no matter how many squares being affected they were in? Again, over-complicating, but it'd be cool it they took damage from every affected square, so being clipped by a fireball isn't as bag as it going off directly on top of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Ugh. Just had my PC die in the Giants encounter on the bridge in The Zakhazi Run... There was one Giant left. One. But he got one lucky hit, and that was it for my poor Nephil. NOOOO. Yeah, anyway... Luck is really important, and should probably be boosted first thing, because it's even more effective than HP and armor at keeping PCs alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Luck is awesome in E1-3 and BoE, almost to the point of being game-breaking. When you max out a PC's Luck, you pretty much have a god PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Not good enough to take on 20+ Giants with 4 Strength though. Actually, this is one of the reasons I think ranged attacks should probably be buffed up a bit in OBoE. As things stand, high-level parties have to have a way to keep their fighters alive when going after archers/spellcasters/breathers. This generally means Luck (and if possible Protection spells). Whereas if archery worked as well for PCs as for NPCs, (ab)using such tactics would be less necessary. And while effective archery may not be realistic, it is a great deal more realistic than Luck-based character shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 It is that discrepancy of the effectiveness of NPC archery vs the weakness of PC archery that caused me to adopt the multi-classed fighter-priest, mage-priest combination. At low levels, Wound is more effective than archery, especially when you consider that stone swords and leather armor are more a liability than an asset. At higher levels, when hasted, the effect of 12 Divine Thuds is impressive. I know that this is not considered effective strategy in Avernum, where there are other motivations for single-classed characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Priest's wound spell in Exile is highly effective since it can bypass a Rakshasa's resistance to all other magical attacks. Exile in general is more tolerant of multiclass characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Um, pushing luck up to 20 will basically let you defeat anything. Infact, it is like, just one step from immortality its self. Like if we had 50 points in luck... well it would be like a 1/1,000,000,000 chance of dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 So lately I've been messing around with 2 PC parties. One dimwitted musclebound fighter, one pencil-necked geek mage, a la Kalam Mekhar and Quick Ben. This sort of duo sounds silly, but is staggeringly effective. The mage just stands back and throws bless and haste spells, and the fighter goes barreling around kicking rear; as long as the caster can hide somewhere safe, the party is all but invincible. I can see a few shortcomings: - Uneven EXP distribution. Can be mitigated by giving the mage intrinsic disadvantages, but I don't really like doing that. - Inability to effectively split up, because the mage can't hold his own. - Lack of versatility. A single mage will not be that effective with ranged spells (at least at low levels). I kind of wonder what the best strategy is for training such a party as the PCs gain levels though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm going to stick my neck out there again where I know it's likely to make a good target. For levels 1-20, build hard on their primary skills. Make your fighter a tank, and your mage/priest an Uber Geek. After that I would begin cross-training. Your fighter can wield priest spells effectively but until you've come across some non-encumbering armor, mage skill is just a waste. You should give mage/priest any good non-encumbrance armor and any weapon that gives extra striking power, fire, cold or poison. These would be hand-me-downs from your fighter. Keep priority on their primary skills, until you've maxed them out. Then continue with the cross training. The Mad Monks march again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Give the Geek Mage a little endurance so he isn't a one shot target. Luck too since this is Exile and you can luck out of death. That helped with a singleton I was playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Another observation: by far the most dangerous creatures at lower levels are fire breathers. And by far the most dangerous of those are Ruby Skeletons, each of which can spam 4 heat rays per turn for 20+ damage each, thoroughly roasting my PCs. Resist Magic helps, but not for long. Not really sure what strategy works best for this. Maybe creating force walls and then hauling rear out of breath range? Being able to hide PCs would be nice, but Sanctuary doesn't work for magical attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Thaluikhain Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hate hate hate Ruby Skeletons, they are extremely nasty. Even the spellcasting ones, the spirits, vampire, divas and liches aren't nearly as infuriating. Actually, I find the smaller monsters with one or two nasty tricks tend to be worse than the big scary ones. Nullbugs and web throwing spiders come to mind as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Never did care much for the Ruby Skeletons. Especially the one in one of the tests or on the river into the vhanatai lands in Exile II. Can't remember where it was but I just know that I hated it's guts. My party wasn't resistant to fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I hate the slow from Aranea and spider webs because you can't remove them fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I don't think you can remove webs during combat, Can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 You have to end your action just like doing nothing outside of combat mode. So if you aren't hasted then you lose a complete turn trying to remove the web. Most of the time the spiders use that turn to add another web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Thankfully, Spiders don't have that many hit-points. And most of them are friendly. Screw you Avernum Cave Widows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Prince of Kitties Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Something I hadn't realized, but that turns out to be useful: some Mage spells break line-of-sight, thus preventing you from being targeted for ranged attacks. These spells are: - Web: Mages start with it, and it covers a wide area. OTOH monsters can tear the webs down (even if it slows them down a little). Still, useful temporary LoS blocking vs. groups. - Fire Barrier: probably the most useful. You can walk through it (for a little damage), and so can monsters, but it blocks spells and arrows. Probably very good for singletons despite the high SP cost; just beware that high level monsters can break the barrier. - Force Barrier: expensive, high level, and you can't walk through it. Otherwise the same as Fire Barrier. Probably not too useful. This stuff is mostly useful at low levels though, at high levels PCs will hopefully have enough Luck not to need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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