A-EftP - Avernum Remix

[Slawbug]

I have to disagree with you both. When you look at the actual numbers over the course of several turns with battle disciplines factored in, the damage per stat/skill/etc is fairly close.

 

4.3 for dual-wielding

4.3 for spears

3.2 for single-wielding

 

As a trade-off for the reduced damage out, single-wielders are better protected from melee attacks. Shifting the emphasis of shields to melee defense means they are less useful for those in the back row, and keeps character types unique. Parry will not rise high enough to be "broken", but the new shields will IMPROVE melee defense for tanks.

[esquivalient.abacot]

you could make all the best swords in the game even better, and too heavy to wield in the off hand - and all the other swords a class below in power (but not quite weak). i think this is better than reducing damage.

 

this way, SW would do acceptable damage (it does not now), but DW would still remain the way to go for the heaviest damage output. you could fine tune it so that DW doesn't become uninteresting. it's woefully overpowered compared to SW now. the gap needs to be narrower.

 

@ceregon: the ability to play a sword-and-shield character focused on tanking and melee damage doesn't exist currently because everything melee-related is pretty miserable compared to dual wield. you just want to have a very decently tanking character that, at the same time, does nice damage while dual wielding.

even then compared to the spellcasters, melee offense isn't all that powerful either. you can beat the game comfortably without really focusing on melee damage at all.

i want more powerful melee offense (at the expense of tanking).

 

@kinsume: it wouldn't be a dramatic turn for the worse if shields parried. right now, everyone tanks by default (who doesn't go for hardiness AND resistance?).

the whole stat system is defense oriented with aoe dominating the damage department. monotonous as hell.

 

edit: i'd even say give some nice riposte to magical shields, that skill/mechanic is underrepresented anyway.

[Lilith]

Have you tested whether parry rate caps out at 50% like it did in previous games? That will provide something of a practical limit to how much you can improve shields by adding parry chance to them, considering that a sword-and-shield tank will probably want to max out Parry anyway.

 

Oh. Oh! Another thing you can do to balance dual-wielding against single-wielding is simply to make most swords weigh more than 7 pounds, so they can't be wielded in the off-hand, and give the remaining ones a much lower attack multiplier.

[Slawbug]

I hadn't tested Parry. I just did. Mercifully, there does not seem to be a cap.

 

I don't really want to turn dual-wielding into a sword-plus-dagger system. It takes away the whole Drizzt image that people love about dual-wielding. And I don't want to force people to use boring weapons, anyway.

 

I just finished the BATTLE DISCIPLINES:

 

Improve with Quick Action:

Well-Aimed Blow, Shield Breaker, Misdirection Attack, Blade Sweep, Focus Spirit, Mighty Blow, Adrenaline Rush, Bladeshield, Battle Frenzy

 

Improve with Sniper:

Flawless Shot, Rapid Fire

 

Improve with Riposte:

Sword Dance

 

I'm excited about these. I think they are really going to add a lot to the game.

[Gon]

Why is it that an Archer can equip a shield? Especially a big shield. You need both hands to work a bow. A small buckler strapped onto your forearm might work but still be in the way....

 

As for the mage in AEFTP their role is so nerfed compared to Exile, he/she is pretty useless in battle except as a healer and to reverse bad effects generally, eg haste I only found relevant when enemy used slow.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Gon

Why is it that an Archer can equip a shield? Especially a big shield. You need both hands to work a bow. A small buckler strapped onto your forearm might work but still be in the way....

When you're not firing your bow, you have a whole hand free to hold the shield. Whilst firing it, I guess you lean it against your leg, or stuff it in your pack or something?

[Ceiling Durkheim]

@Gon: The mage is what now? I think you are literally the first person I've seen on the forum in the months that AEftP has been out who thinks that magi are underpowered.

 

Also: healer? Do you mean with items, or are you confusing magi with priests?

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Gon

Why is it that an Archer can equip a shield? Especially a big shield. You need both hands to work a bow. A small buckler strapped onto your forearm might work but still be in the way....

I agree with this. One of many ways the engine isn't how I would design it. Oh well -- it's still a great game.

Quote:

As for the mage in AEFTP their role is so nerfed compared to Exile, he/she is pretty useless in battle except as a healer and to reverse bad effects generally, eg haste I only found relevant when enemy used slow.

This confuses me tremendously. Yes, there are no longer absurdly broken bless, haste, invulnerability, and basilisk/nullbug-summoning spells. Other than that, spellcasters are just as good: they can still heal everyone on demand, and they can still deal out a large amount of AoE damage. If anything, they are more necessary, as you can't just bless-fight your way out of everything.

Haste is still a terrific effect, though: it effectively increases the damage your party deals by 33%. If you're skipping it because it's not flashy and obvious, you're missing out.

[Roentgenium]

Here's an idea: make it possible to "minor" in an attack mode. As it is, the way things work in this game means your minor will be pretty much useless due to horrid accuracy/damage, and putting equal focus on two skills will make you sub-par with both. The only exception is healing, since Minor Heal is a great spell even if you put little focus on it. If this remix makes it feasible to be a decent archer and fighter at once, I will be very happy.

[Slawbug]

Not possible -- sorry.

[esquivalient.abacot]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

I hadn't tested Parry. I just did. Mercifully, I just finished the BATTLE DISCIPLINES:
I'm excited about these. I think they are really going to add a lot to the game.

super excited! i think it will turn out great. did you change fatigue cost too?

[Slawbug]

Yup, right now the fatigue costs are all either 3 or 4 except for Battle Frenzy at 5. I may end up increasing a few of the others to 5, but I want to try it out a bit first.

[Kinsume]

So when abouts will this be done?

[Gon]

I didn't state it very well and maybe it is just me but it seemed not cost effective from the standpoint of gold to invest in attacks for the spell casters (mage/priests) Basically, you really have to highly specialise each character and pick stuff that upgrades that specialisation, or end up neither here nor there. I just concentrated all the attack upgrades for the two frontline fighters and the support upgrades for the spell casters. Besides, the way I played it, I wanted the female archer in the group coz she's fun to play besides having a cool avatar (G223), and I also wanted both dual wielder and pole fighter, so it ended up dual, pole, archer and mage/priest combo. The mage/priests are essential to the team healing, hasting, restore mind, that kind of thing on the battlefield, keeping the front line fighters going, what I meant was that unlike Exile, spell casters at high levels were no longer this unstoppable force on their own tearing their way thru heaps of enemy with invincible magic blasts lol, I agree that was too much but it was fun in it's own way Of course, from a balance pov, if you power up the mages too much, then the game play gets badly unbalanced.

 

 

[Slawbug]

It's true that upgrading spells is very expensive. However, if you pick and choose which ones to upgrade, it's much less of a burden.

 

Originally Posted By: Gon

what I meant was that unlike Exile, spell casters at high levels were no longer this unstoppable force on their own tearing their way thru heaps of enemy with invincible magic blasts

This is where you're wrong. Magic area of effect spells in AEFTP gain power as you go up in level more quickly than most physical attacks. They are about on par with a dual-wielder's attacks, though they may do more or less damage due to a particular foe's armor and resistance. But while the dual-wielder hits one enemy per attack, the spellcaster can hit many -- and the areas of effect for these spells are generously large. In a large battle, you can expect to hit at least 5 enemies, and often more, in a single blast. With Adrenaline Rush, spellcasters can send out 3 AoE spells each in the first round of a fight. There is nothing stronger in the game, and physical fighters don't even come close.

 

I'm not sure why you didn't experience this. Maybe your mage/priest's skill points ended up quite split, or worse, her stat points (they should almost all go into Int, just like a warrior's should almost all go into Str). Maybe with only one spellcaster, you ran out of SP when you attempted to use AoE spells. Whatever the reason, I haven't heard anyone else make the same claim.